Retirement Visa and Taxation in Brasil

Texanbrazil wrote:

Depends on where you hold your retirement account(s).
Some countries have tax agreements and some do not.

you are 100% correct. thankfully my country works on the same pension framework as brazil and the tax treaty, so i pay taxes for only one country. certainly simplifies things down the road. one thing i really do appreciate about brazil - recetia federal knows everything you are doing with your money. lol

jack_gats wrote:

I visited a very kind and helpfull "contador" ie tax and accounting expert in Sao Paulo last year. He was adamant Brazilian law required me to be taxed on my WORLD INCOME. He said not declaring assets outside Brazil was risky and he could not recommend it. He said to be tax-exempt go to Uruguay instead.

My accountant's advice is different.  That doesn't make one "right" and the other "wrong", it just points up the fact that everybody's tax situation is different.  That's why the only tax advice I ever offer on this site is:  find an accountant that you feel you can trust, and follow that professional's advice.

When mine prepares my Brazilian return, she has not only my Brazilian bank statements in front of her, but my complete US return as well, and all of my US investment statements.  I provide her with complete information, and trust her to apply her professional expertise to it.

relocatesouthbrazil wrote:

It's quite a fast process, costs 5k USD to buy the permit and that means you can work and live in all the countries inside the MERCOSUL agreement.

01/06/22

That's certainly true for holders of Paraguayan passports; I'm not sure that it applies in the case of a foreigner with a Paraguayan residence permit.   That should be confirmed in advance with Brazilian authorities.

Brazil ordinarily bases residence and particularly employment decisions on the underlying passport and the type of Brazilian visa an individual obtains, not on the independent actions of third countries.

abthree wrote:

relocatesouthbrazil wrote:

It's quite a fast process, costs 5k USD to buy the permit and that means you can work and live in all the countries inside the MERCOSUL agreement.

01/06/22

That's certainly true for holders of Paraguayan passports; I'm not sure that it applies in the case of a foreigner with a Paraguayan residence permit.   That should be confirmed in advance with Brazilian authorities.

Brazil ordinarily bases residence and particularly employment decisions on the underlying passport and the type of Brazilian visa an individual obtains, not on the independent actions of third countries.

Agree with abthree. Throw-in many PY citizens were working in SP and other states and in late 2019 and 2020 (covid) many were deported via buses to the Foz/PY border. PY closed its borders and even citizens could not enter their country. (They spent 3 months on the bridge. Could not enter BR or PY. No food, water, or bathrooms.)
This is something I would not recommend to an expat.

abthree wrote:

01/06/22

Hi, Viajanete!

Great to see you back. 

It's useful for expats with Brazilian wage or salary income to prepare their Brazilian taxes first, because they provide the basis for some US tax benefits.   That doesn't apply to retirement income though, so I  always do my US taxes first, so the return is available to my Brazilian accountant for reference.

How to find an accountant depends on what kind of network you've developed in Governador Valadares.  I got a name from an attorney/real estate agent we were friendly with, met with her, and liked her.  We've worked with her for three years now. Your lawyer if you have one, and friends are all possible sources for referrals.

At least one of the major international accounting firm has offices in Belo Horizonte; I forget which one,  but I can look it up, if you're interested.

Ordinarily I'd say that it's hard to find a Brazilian accountant familiar with US tax law in an interior city, but as you know better than I by now, Governador Valadares is a special case.  As one of the biggest headquarters for illegal US immigration from Brazil, it probably has an unusual number of professionals familiar with various aspects of US law.  Be very careful in choosing.

Thanks so much, abthree!  I have put the word out (among friends I trust) and am waiting to see what responses come in.  I know several people who get remittances from family in the States, and a friend's aunt who has just moved back to Brazil after decades in the U.S.   
. 
In the meantime, yes, I WOULD appreciate knowing which major accounting firm I might find in Belo Horizonte and the contact info for them.  Thanks so much!

Viajanete wrote:

. 
In the meantime, yes, I WOULD appreciate knowing which major accounting firm I might find in Belo Horizonte and the contact info for them.  Thanks so much!

Hi,

Sorry to keep you waiting -- I've been a little tied up.  Here's what I know about major international accounting firms in BH -- more than I thought:

PWC
https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/about/office- … razil.html

Deloitte
https://www2.deloitte.com/br/pt/footerl … ce-locator

KPMG
https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/about/offi … nte-1.html

EY
https://www.ey.com/pt_br/locations/braz … -horizonte

Mikeflanagan wrote:

Deloitte is some big guns. they get contracted out from IBM for support primarily

And ending a relationship of over 100 years,  they've replaced KPMG as GE's auditor, too.  Of course,  GE is only a shadow of its former self.

Mikeflanagan wrote:

yea, crazy seeing empires rise and fall. though GE im not suprised , they didnt have much innovation after the radio era

In fact, they did.  A world of things we take for granted,  from engineering plastics to CT scanners to commercial jet engines to modern street lighting to dieselization of railroads to portable gas turbines to submarine propulsion to commercial nuclear power to tungsten carbide tools and much more, came out of GE labs and were commercialized from GE factories during the lives of many of us still alive. 

Throughout the 20th Century, GE filed more patent applications every year in the US than any other inventor, corporate or individual.  It was a point of great pride - until Jack Welch took over.  Then innovation ended, and he stripped the company as effectively as any corporate raider.  The financial and engineering foundations were so strong that it took him over twenty years to bring it down, but he was a genius of destruction.

Texanbrazil wrote:

So true! More children were educated by the dividends from GE in my parents and their parents. Then GE decided to shed appliances and other consumer products to get into the financial world!!  How did that work out in 2007/2008!!!!

Sugar rush, then devastation.

I spent the first twelve years of my career there.  Like many, I was a GE brat -- my father rose through the ranks, and never worked anywhere else.  I had a friend who was fourth generation.

I left in 1988 for family reasons, but I was not sorry to go.  The company had just missed topping the patents list for the first time, and was about to lose its AAA credit rating.  The writing was in very small print, but it was still up on the wall for anyone to see who looked.  The skills I acquired have served me well for the rest of my life, though.

Getting on wrote:

Thanks for all your comments above. Is it true that Brazil does not tax U. S. pensions and Social Security?

Not necessarily  - unlike Canada,  the US doesn't have a tax treaty with Brazil to address those matters.

Every expat needs to obtain his/her own individualized tax advice, because everyone's situation is different.

dnelson99 wrote:

Hi abthree,

In a couple posts, you've mentioned your accountant. Can you share contact information?

I tried to send you a message, but either not allowed for newbie or I couldn't figure it out.

Thanks.

I've sent you a DM; you should be able to reach me by responding to it.

I'd be happy to check with her, and pass on her info if she agrees.  I usually suggest that expats find professionals local to them, and she may not be a good fit:  she's a monolingual Portuguese speaker (I think -- except for my husband, Brazilians never speak English to me, even if they can.  ) and lives and works in Manaus.   Let me know.