Confusion of counting the days of my stay in Brazil

5POSTS

3 years ago

Hello.

I am quite confused what will happend while next time entering Brasil as a turist because: I entered for the first time on 3. december 2021 and stayed until 1 march 2022. Then, after spending 3 weeks in my copuntry, I returned on 20 March not knowing that his would have been not appropriate but was lucky to receive at the border a stay permit for 46 days. I left Brazil on 7 May. Now, I would like to return to Brasil on 18 october this year. For how long could I stay? Only for 44 days to compleat 180 per year since my first entry in december 2021 or a 90 days stay permit will be counted from 18 october? Or I have to leave Brazil after 44 days and when could I enter the country again?

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Gringoinsuzano New member

4POSTS

3 years ago

It will probably depend on the officer at immigration. It does not sound like you are a tourist, if they suspect that is that case they might deny entry.

2 members reacted to this post

Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

3 years ago

This may help. abthree posted this and explains it well!

"Your maximum stay is recalculated each time you come to Brazil by looking back at the 12 months prior to your current arrival. You can stay for up to 90 days, and extend for up to another 90 days, for a maximum of 180 days in each 12 month period. Your day of arrival and your day of departure each count as a full day, but you don't lose days if you stay for fewer than 90 days at a time: you still have the days that you didn't use available to you. To determine how many days you have left, look at the 12 months preceding your next planned arrival, count the days that you spent in Brazil during those 12 months, and subtract that number from 180. The result is the number of days that you have left.

For example, let's say that you arrived in Brazil for the first time on April 1, 2022, and returned to Portugal on April 30. You wanted to come back on August 1, 2022. During the measurement period for your next trip, which runs from August 1, 2021 to August 1, 2022, the only time you spent in Brazil was that April 2022 trip of 30 days, so your available days are 180-30 = 150, for a maximum of 90 days plus a 60 day extension."

I also agree with you being a tourist with multiple entries in a short period. It may be in question upon next arrival.

3 members reacted to this post

abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

3 years ago

08/09/22 @Szegediensis. Citizens of most North American and non-EU member European countries are on the 180 days in every 365 days schedule that Texanbrazil explains above. Hungary, however, is on the 90 days in every 180 day schedule that applies to most EU members, so for you the calculation works differently. In your case, I would revise the explanation this way:

"Your maximum stay is recalculated each time you come to Brazil by looking back at the six months prior to your current arrival. You can stay for up to 90 days, with no extensions, in each six month period. Your day of arrival and your day of departure each count as a full day, but you don't lose days if you stay for fewer than 90 days at a time: you still have the days that you didn't use available to you. Unused days do not roll over into the next six month measurement period, however. To determine how many days you have left, look at the six months preceding your next planned arrival, count the days that you spent in Brazil during those six months, and subtract that number from 90. The result is the number of days that you have left."

Some EU member states have individual agreements with Brazil that predate the EU agreement, and those countries are still on the 180/365 rule. If you also have citizenship in one of those countries, you can take advantage of that rule by using that passport rather than your Hungarian one. The rules applying to all countries are shown in the far right column of this matrix:

https://www.gov.br/mre/pt-br/assuntos/p … 4mar22.pdf

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Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

3 years ago

Good catch abthree.

2 members reacted to this post

ltoby955 Serial expat

358POSTS

3 years ago

It is slightly different if a Brazilain passport holder comes to Portugal they can come for 180 and not have to ask for an extension, pity its not reciprocal.

rraypo Serial expat

776POSTS

3 years ago

It is slightly different if a Brazilain passport holder comes to Portugal they can come for 180 and not have to ask for an extension, pity its not reciprocal.
- @ltoby955

Totally different country, so different rules.

1 member reacted to this post

ltoby955 Serial expat

358POSTS

3 years ago

@rraypo Hi yeah totally get that and they celebrate 200 years of independence on the 7th of September, I was just saying the two countries have close ties and it should be on this too. 500,000 Brazilians now live in Portugal from a population of just 11 million, Portugal have just allowed the Brazilain population to use their driving licence here with no need to change as immigrants.

Szegediensis New member

5POSTS

3 years ago

@abthree Thank you for the explanation. I am quite amaized now why the border police agent gave me in March 46 days of stay with Hungarian passport AFTER I spent almost 90 between december and march, returning at the and of march to Brazil. But that was my salvation because in fact, I thought by that time that I need only to get out of the country to return for onther 90 days period. Beseide Hungarian I have also Romanian citizenship. On the list of Brazilian authorities about visa regulation I see that some EU countries have a * sign at the 90 visa free mention like Hungary, other does not have, like Romania. Maybe does it meens that I could prolong my stay of 90 days? I tried to find a clear information regarding this aspect, about I couldn't find.

Szegediensis New member

5POSTS

3 years ago

#10

@Texanbrazil Thank you!

abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

3 years ago

#11

08/10/20 @Szegediensis. That's my reading of the QGRV, that if you enter Brazil on your Romanian passport you're under the 180/365 rule, and that if you enter on your Hungarian passport, you're on the 90/180 rule. Note that both rules result in the same number of days per year; they just distribute them differently.

I'm pretty sure that you can't enter on your Hungarian passport and then try to extend on your Romanian passport: the whole visit has to be on the same document. I also don't know whether the Federal Police coordinates your passports, although I hear that they try. In any case, the final decision is theirs.

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ltoby955 Serial expat

358POSTS

3 years ago

#12

I guess you have to show both passports as they would both need stamping at somepoint? Guessing

abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

3 years ago

#13

08/10/20 I guess you have to show both passports as they would both need stamping at somepoint? Guessing
- @ltoby955

No, that would not ordinarily be necessary and would just confuse Passport Control. People with more than one valid passport can choose which to show, and use that one as their ID throughout the trip.

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Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

3 years ago

#14

It is not recomen trying to use different passports on one stay. PF can request you to leave Brazil within 8 days. It happen to 4 travelers using different African countries in 2017. They showed a passport and were referred to secondary. Search found various passports.

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ltoby955 Serial expat

358POSTS

3 years ago

#15

@abthree ok and does that not confuse re the stamp in the visa if you use a different say for entry and exit?

abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

3 years ago

#16

08/19/22 @abthree ok and does that not confuse re the stamp in the visa if you use a different say for entry and exit?
- @ltoby955

As I said above, "the whole visit has to be on the same document". I'm assuming that anyone who has multiple passports would know enough to exit on the same one they entered on, but hey, if not, then it certainly bears repeating. 👍

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Szegediensis New member

5POSTS

3 years ago

#17

@abthree For me it would be perfect the rule 180/365 since I prefer to stay at once a longer period (during the colder period in Europe...) than to travel two times. My Romanian passport expired but as I see, it is worth to apply for a new one. One can never know. But one more question: it is stated that the stay of the 90 days can be extend only ONCE. It means only once in LIFE or once every time I visit Brasil after staying 180 out of the country? By the way, the Brazilian ambassy in Budapest wrote that during my next trip to Brasil I am entitled to stay... 70 days.

abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

3 years ago

#18

08/11/22 @Szgediensis. As Texanbrazil and I have said, a visitor is either on a rolling 365 day schedule (180/365 rule) or a rolling 180 day schedule (90/180 rule). In practice, that means that Immigration looks either over the past 12 or 6 months to see how much time you've spent in Brazil during that period. But the lookback period is rolling: each month, the oldest month of the last lookback period drops off your record, and you "get back" any days you may have spent in Brazil during that month. So if you stay out of Brazil long enough between visits, your allowance is always renewed.

Obviously, you lose the benefits of a second passport if you let it expire, so it's good practice to keep all of your passports up to date. It would probably be a good idea to renew your Romanian passport as soon as you can: a friend of mine who holds passports from two EU member countries was recently informed by one of them that he's going to need to choose which he wants to keep, because EU regulations will eventually limit EU citizens to one EU passport. My friend lives in Brazil and they may be implementing that policy on expats first, but you should be aware that it's out there.

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Texanbrazil ViP

2744POSTS

3 years ago

#19

It is not recomen trying to use different passports on one stay. PF can request you to leave Brazil within 8 days. It happen to 4 travelers using different African countries in 2017. They showed a passport and were referred to secondary. Search found various passports.
- @Texanbrazil

I received a Pm as to the above. Let me explain. 4 entered Brazil on an African passport 120 days prior to trying to enter again on a different passport. The PF agent(s) found the passenger's names entered on another passport. In secondary inspection, they found the other passports.

The PF kept the second passport and they would return the passport upon leaving within 8 days (really 6 days because entry and exit days counted.) One agent said they may ban the 4 from entering Brasil for 1 to 3 years.

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jasonlovesdogs Contributor

161POSTS

3 years ago

#20

I have a similar question. Should I start a new post? I went to PF today for a 90 day extension for my US passport and they said I came too early. I don't understand how they are counting my days. I'm counting them different. I don't want to show up when they say and have bypassed my time if some in the same office calculates it differently. I can't provide more details.

abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

3 years ago

#21

08/11/22 @jasonlovesdogs. Right or wrong, the PF count is authoritative. All you can do is go back there on the day that the officer said, and if you're questioned, to just tell them that you were there on August 11 and the officer on duty told you that you were too early, and when to return.

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jasonlovesdogs Contributor

161POSTS

3 years ago

#22

@jasonlovesdogs I actually meant that I CAN provide more details.

I went to Bahia in for 3 weeks in May and went back to the US. This was my first trip ever to Brazil. I came back on June 28th and have been here ever since. They are only counting my days since I have been here this trip and it looks like they are disregarding the 3 weeks in May. The stamps for these dates are in my passport. So they are saying I don't need to extend until September 26th. I want to immigrate to Brazil so I don't want to violate anything that would put that in jeopardy. So maybe I go back again in a couple of weeks just to be sure? In case a different person is there and calculates differently? I don't need an appointment here in Brasília.

abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

3 years ago

#23

08/11/22 @jasonlovesdogs. It does sound like the person you spoke with did ignore your May trip. Checking in with them early the first week in September might be a good idea, just in case.

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jasonlovesdogs Contributor

161POSTS

3 years ago

#24

I actually talked to a consultant about this yesterday and they say that when I left Brazil and came back, my 90 days reset. So when I came back in late June the federal police are looking at it as if my 90 days reset. The 180 days for the year does not reset but the 90 days reset if I leave the country. So when I go to get an extension, they will count the three weeks that I came in May towards the extension. So they'll only give me an extension for 2 months and a week, approximately. I guess that makes sense.

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ltoby955 Serial expat

358POSTS

3 years ago

#25

@jasonlovesdogs on the extension of an additional 90 days do they take off any days you don't use to use on the next visit to Brazil. I need around 120 days between October and March 2022/23?

jasonlovesdogs Contributor

161POSTS

3 years ago

#26

@ltoby955 No you don't lose days. With an approved extension you have a total of 180 days a year to use, as far as I understand it.

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ltoby955 Serial expat

358POSTS

3 years ago

#27

Ok, that's great. The extension can be applied for straight away or do you have to wwait until you have exhausted the first 90 days?

davidandersonproperty New member

4POSTS

2 years ago

#28

Hi Guys,

I have been reading this thread and found it very useful, but I had a question specific to my counting of days as I just can't figure out what my best course of action is and wondered if someone could help me please? I am a UK citizen on a UK passport:

The situation is that currently I have spent 73 days in Brasil this year as outlined below:

Arrived first on 28th Dec 2022

Left on 26th February 2023 (61 days)

Arrived on 9th August 2023

Left on 20th August (12 days)

= 73 days

Where I am now confused is what happens next. I am due to travel to Brasil again arriving on 1st October and leaving on the 10th December, totalling a further 70 days. So my question is, will I need to apply for an extension once I next arrive in Brasil as my next stay will take me over 90 days total, or because I have re-entered again, am I able to stay for that time as a new 90 day period without an extension as long as it's not going over my total allowed 180 days for the calendar year (i.e. from 27th December 2022)?

Would really appreciate the advice, many thanks!

DAVID ANDERSON

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abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

2 years ago

#29

08/22/23 @davidandersonproperty. Please see response to your duplicate post.

davidandersonproperty New member

4POSTS

2 years ago

#30

@abthree much appreciated and apologies for the duplicate post!

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leemeta New member

3POSTS

2 years ago

#31

Hello,

thanks for all the help, so much useful information!

I apologise in advance for the length of my post but I want to make sure what I wrote is easily understandable.

If you would be so kind, I could use your help regarding my visit(s) to Brasil.

I am a Croat, with a Croatian passport, living in Croatia. Croatian citizens have a vise-free entry to Brasil, maximum of 90 days per visit and 180 days out of 365 days, if I'm not mistaken.

I have a Brasilian boyfriend and have visited him earlier this year:

arrived to Brasil – February 20th 2023,

left Brasil – April 19th 2023,

with total stay of = 60 days.

I'm planning my next trip there this year:

will arrive to Brasil – November 20th 2023

In between my departure and my next next arrival, there will have been 213 days.

As far as I can tell, when I arrive in November I will be able to stay for 90 days with no need to apply for an extension after the first 30 days (which would complete my first 90 days stay in the last 12 months 60+30=90).

Meaning, I would have to leave Brasil at the latest February 16th 2024, so I don't overstay my 180 days in 365 allowance, or ask for an extension for another 30 day to complete 180 in 365 (although at that point it would have exceeded the period of 365 days).

Now, since we don't want to live apart any more (this past year has been tough), we would like to form a stable union (seems easier and much faster than getting married) as soon as I arrive, and then I would apply for a visa so I could gain residency. I'm in the process of gathering required documents and having them apostilled.

We hope to be able to do this within these 90 days I'm able to stay there, so I don't have to leave at any point.

My questions are:

1. Is everything I've written true, am I getting anything wrong?

2. If for some reason I'm not able to get residency, at what point does my 180 days in 365 days allowance restart? And does it?

3. Can I ask for an extension to stay as a tourist for another 90 days, after February 16th 2024, and not just 30 days?

4. Can I leave Brasil by February 16th 2024 (the 90 days expiration date), and re-enter after February 20th 2023 (the date I first arrived to Brasil this year)? Or do I have to leave for at least 90 days before coming to Brasil for the third time (I've read this somewhere, but it was unclear)?

Thank you in advance!

Best,

Tajana

Bpm917 Member

21POSTS

2 years ago

#32

@leemeta

As long as you begin the process with the PF to obtain residency before your 90 days expire they will give you a process number which will allow you to stay legally while you complete your application. Once your application is approved you will get a printout with your RNM which will serve as proof of residency while you await your CRNM. I returned to the US the day my application was finally accepted and returned to Brasil with no issues.

leemeta New member

3POSTS

2 years ago

#33

@Bpm917

Great to hear! Thank you for your reply!

abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

2 years ago

#34

10/26/23 @leemeta. Hi, Tajana. I think that you're going to be fine.

Assuming that you arrive on November 20, 2023, you will only have spent 59 days in Brazil during the previous 365 days (9 in February, 31 in March, 19 in April), and you'll have 121 left: a normal 90 day stay, plus a possible extension of up to 31 days. But you'll get the February 2023 days back on March 1, so you'll have even more time. If you arrive with all the necessary documents and start the processes as soon as you should arrive, you should be able to either get married or to establish a União Estável at a cartório well before your tourist visa runs out. Once the Polícia Federal accepts your application for Authorization for Residency, the clock on your visa stops running until they make their decision.

I describe the process for União Estável in this thread:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 95#5786795

I describe the process for civil marriage in this thread:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 78#5785798

I suggest that you and your boyfriend seriously consider marriage rather than União Estável. The requirements at the cartório are basically the same and if you're prepared the time required is not very different. The requirements for the Authorization for Residency at the Polícia Federal are the same, but the PF will be less suspicious of a new marriage than they are of a new União Estável.

Best of luck to you both.

leemeta New member

3POSTS

2 years ago

#35

@abthree

Thank you so much, really appreciate it!

We were considering marriage at first, but Stable union seemed like a better option for us.. no waiting, no people I barely know as witnesses, no upset family and friends.

However, now that you said it, I'm rethinking our whole plan, as I don't want to risk being able to stay.

I don't like the fact you have to wait up to a month for the marriage certificate, then wait for the date to get married, and theeen apply for residence. Makes me kinda anxious, having this 90 day timeline.

I get that it's more than doable in theory, but I'm not much of a risk taker..

abthree Brazil Expert

6439POSTS

2 years ago

#36

10/26/23Thank you so much, really appreciate it!I don't like the fact you have to wait up to a month for the marriage certificate, then wait for the date to get married, and theeen apply for residence. Makes me kinda anxious, having this 90 day timeline.I get that it's more than doable in theory, but I'm not much of a risk taker.. -@leemeta

My pleasure. The cartórios have a certain amount of leeway on the delays. Your boyfriend should talk to them in advance to see what they can do, and what they recommend. Brazilian officialdom does not react well to surprises, but with advance notice they're quite likely to work with you.

The most important thing, and I can't stress this enough, is to have all of your documents for both the cartório and the Polícia Federal complete and apostilled when you arrive. You can get the Sworn Translations done here, but the rest should be complete when you get on the plane in Zagreb. Get duplicate originals of any document you can: you won't be sorry. Scan everything, and send the scans to your boyfriend, so you'll have an additional copy in a safe place. You can also use the scans to get the Sworn Translations.

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Cserebogar Active member

99POSTS

2 years ago

#37

@Szegediensis Brother where in Brazil will you come too?? Bring Szeged paprika and also leszco pepper seeds. You ain't going to find the good stuff here. I did find a few hungarian restaurants in sp though. Haven't been yet, too far away. Good luck with your cash flow!!!