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Regarding naturalization for people with a Brazilian Child

brandwach
#1
As a parent of a Brazilian child, I  know I am entitled to citizenship after one year of residency.  But, how much of that time must I been in Brazil? 
Would 3mo's do it, or 6 mo's or would I have to be in Brazil the whole year?
Thanks
See also
James
#2
Hello brandwach,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your understanding about naturalization isn't correct.

You qualify for Brazilian citizenship by having a Brazilian child, either child born or Brazilan soil or a child born abroad to a Brazilian parent. That much you have correct.

The confusion is the 1 year rule... You MAY qualify to naturalize as a Brazilian citizen one year after you have received your Permanent Visa. Naturalization is not an easy process and you will also be required to speak Portuguese fluently.

You will not be able to apply to naturalize outside of Brazil and as far as I know if you leave the country for a period exceeding 90 days during the processing of your application it will be null and void.

The requirements for citizenship are given in the Ministry of Justice website:

http://portal.mj.gov.br/main.asp?View={ … 0F4CB26%7D

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sandboxred
#3
Hi James. After my child is born in Brazil I will register her birth at the Cartorio de Registro de Civil to obtain her birth certificate. My wife and me will have the immediate right of permanent residency based on Art. 226 of the Federal Constitution. We will have to apply for Permanencia Definitiva com base em prole brasileiro which must be accepted, even in case our visas are expired. Can you walk me step by step through the process of obtaining permanent residence first and naturalisation later? During those two processes, are we free to leave Brazil, and if so, for how long each time? Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
James
#4
Once you apply for permanency through the Federal Police, if all your documents are present and in order under the new process permanency is granted immediately, you register in the RNE and apply for your civil ID (Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro - CIE) all at the same time.

You should remain in Brazil at least until you receive your CIE, which will take a few months. After that you may be outside Brazil for up to 2 years before permanent status is revoked. They base everything on entry/exit stamps in your passport. So you will have to come back to Brazil at least once every 2 years. To my knowledge there is no minimum stay required to "restart the clock" on the 2 year period.

The process for applying for permanency is explained in the following topic thread:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=403321

You apply for permanency (com base em prole brasileira) through the Policia Federal website:

http://www.dpf.gov.br/servicos/estrange … brasileira

This page explains the process and if you click on the link in the "Requerimento próprio" line that will take you to the online forms you need to fill out. (SEPARATE ONES FOR EACH OF YOU)

Naturalization is a different process, and unlike permanency which your child will give you a right to obtain, naturalization  is at the sole discretion of the government. You must meet all the requirements for citizenship which includes passing a test of fluency in the Portuguese language. Depending on where you live in Brazil that may mean passing a CELPE-Bras test through the Ministry of Education or in other cities the Federal Police will conduct their own test of your fluency. Like permanency you also apply for naturalization through the Policia Federal.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team
1 member reacted to this post
sandboxred
#5
Thanks James. I will probably come back with more questions. Do I have to be legally married to the mother of my child or does this not matter?
James
#6
No, you don't need to be legally married to the mother, but it will complicate the Birth Registration slightly. You will BOTH need to attend the Cartório de Registro Civil together and you will declare your paternity through a process called "Reconhecimento de paternidade". The child MUST be registered in your name or you will not have any legal right to either permanency or citizenship otherwise.
1 member reacted to this post
sandboxred
#7
What if the surname of mother and father is not the same? This is not uncommon. In which name would the child be registered? Or can it be both?
James
#8
The custom in Brazil for registering the birth of a child is the child has a) a given name, b) a middle name (usually the mother's surname), and c) a surname (the father's surname).

Some parents may actually include more than one name as a middle name, in which case the mother's surname comes immediately before the father's in the order.

Father :   João Pedro Batista
Mother:  Ana Clara Coelho

Child:  Luis Filipe   then the full name would be Luise Filipe Coelho Batista

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team
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sandboxred
#9
To my understanding, there are 5 requirements to process a birth certificate:
1.     2 Brazilian witnesses
2.    The baby.
3.    The mother and father.
4.     CPF numbers of mother and father
5.    Proof of residence of mother and father
How and where do we obtain a CPF? For what else exactly is this number used for? Proof of residence I assume can be arranged through our landlord? Any special form, notarisation needed here? Also, I gather that the birth certificate would be issued based on the hospital record, but where exactly is the birth certificate being processed?
James
#10

sandboxred wrote:

To my understanding, there are 5 requirements to process a birth certificate:
1.     2 Brazilian witnesses
2.    The baby.
3.    The mother and father.
4.     CPF numbers of mother and father
5.    Proof of residence of mother and father
How and where do we obtain a CPF? For what else exactly is this number used for? Proof of residence I assume can be arranged through our landlord? Any special form, notarisation needed here? Also, I gather that the birth certificate would be issued based on the hospital record, but where exactly is the birth certificate being processed?


Witnesses are ONLY required for births that take place outside a hospital/maternity setting, such as at home, etc.

The CPF of the parents does not matter at all, what is important is the civil ID of the parents (i.e. the RG - Registro Geral of a Brazilian parent or passport, RNE of a foreign parent.

If you actually need proof of residence (and I don't think you do) then any utility bill or fixed telephone bill in the name of one of the parents will do. A notarized rental contract is also sufficient proof.

When a birth takes place in a hospital they issue a document called a DNV - Declaração Nacido Vivo which you need for registration of the birth.

Registration is done at the Cartório de Registro de Pessoas Naturais e Registro Civil in the city where the parents normally reside. (If there are several Cartórios de Registro Civil in your city then it's common to choose the closest one to the neighborhood where you actually live.)

One VERY IMPORTANT point....... make sure before you accept the document that there are no errors, not even the tiniest spelling error, etc. because the ONLY way you get them corrected afterwards is a lengthy court process.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team

2 members reacted to this post
sandboxred
#11
James, thanks for your speedy reply! We are both foreign, so where would we get this RNE from? Could you still explain what a CPF is and what it is used for? And, when anything has to be notarised, where do I have to take the documents to? Thanks!
James
#12
You don't even qualify for an RNE yet, you register the child with the DNV issued by the hospital and your passports.

Once you have the child's Birth Certificate, then you can gather up all the other documents necessary to apply for Permanência Definitiva com base em prole brasileira and submit them to the Federal Police.

The CPF (Cadastro de Pessoas Fisicas) is your individual tax number. You obtain it from the Receita Federal. You will need your passport as identification and as far as I know that's about all that is required. Perhaps your Birth Certificate will also be helpful, but the passport is essential.
1 member reacted to this post
Bardamu
#13
Sandboxred. Are you asking us actually how to cheat the immigration system? You do not seem to be much interested about how to obtain a visa to enter in Brazil but more about a way to stay in Brazil by having a child.
sandboxred
#14
Don't be stupid. I know how to get a visa to enter Brazil. I have no need or intention to circumvent immigration. I'm an educated professional and I've got money and would easily qualify for an investment visa but why so when our child is under way and it all falls together with our moving to Brazil?
James
#15
Hi Bardamu,

What sandboxred is talking about is obtaining permanency based on a Brazilian born child. It is perfectly legal and is in no way trying to "get around" immigration laws.

As he says, he has the wherewithall to obtain a permanent visa based on investment, but even that is bureaucratic. Permanency based on either marriage to a Brazilian citizen, or on having a Brazilian child is very much simpler. I can tell you from personal experience because when after my application for permanency went nowhere after sitting with the Ministry of Justice for 4 1/2 years I finally got tired of the run-around, cancelled that process and re-applied based on my Brazilian child that was born following the original application. That process was completed in 1 year (under the old system that usually took 2 years or more). I personally don't blame him for looking for the easiest and most certain option.

Actually, the Federal Police process a couple of thousand applications for permanency based on Brazilian born children every year. It certainly doesn't bother them, so it sure doesn't bother me.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team
2 members reacted to this post
Bardamu
#16
James, allowing people to get residency and then nationality when having a child in Brazil is in the law. Planning to have a child to obtain these adventages is certainly not in the príncipe of the law.
I have git some doubts that someone who does not know about CPF and RNE, has really interest in visa process. I am not charitable like you certainly.
Sanboxred, you would qualify or you will? If you have got an investor visa then you have permanency during validity of this visa. If you satisfy rules of this visa, you can then renew without problems. Then I don't undertand your question about 3,6 months to obtain your residency after having a child in Brazil. It rang all the wrong bells.  But clearly, this is not my business.
soie5
#17
No offence . but I think you are being too harsh with him. He is doing nothing illegal. He is asking information about a legal process. As far as your concern is, I think you feel that he is wrong because he is planning an anchor baby. For some people this concept is difficult to swallow. But there is nothing illegal about it. Else there wont be laws allowing it. And if a baby is coming, then a baby is coming. Doesn't matter where its born. The parents will have to follow the paperwork n that country.
Secondly, if he was planning to invest here, even then he would be asking the same questions about CPF or maybe an SUS card. Chill !:)
3 members reacted to this post
James
#18
Hello soie5,

Very well said. I personally agree with you...

Unless and until the Brazilian government decides to change the law this is all completely legal and we should not be trying to use our (homeland) standards to judge it. Brazil is a country that is very accepting of all who come to her shores and does not change this law because that is the way they want to remain.

I come from a country that also has the jus soli concept in law and those born there are automatically citizens, their paarents thus have a right to permanency in Canada despite it being a country which is very difficult to get a permanent visa otherwise.

If you come from a country where being born there doesn't impart citizenship, I guess it may be hard to understand that concept. However Brazil does, and to deny the parents any particular rights would thus deny the rights of the (citizen) child. That cannot happen under the Brazilian Constitution.

I'm more than happy with things the way they are, and most people I know are too. Brazil is a huge country, it has room enough for everybody.

Cheers,
James
2 members reacted to this post
soie5
#19
True James,
Every country has the right to make rules that it feels best to help its citizens. Brazil is HUGE. Brazil actually needs more people here in the talented / specialized sector too. So if she is getting more people who will contribute to the economy , even if it is on the basis of having a child born, she is happy to accomodate.
Brazilian laws along with the Brazilian people are very generous in this regard. I think maybe Brazil and Canada now that you mention it, are just among the very few countries of the world which offer permanency to the parent too on the basis of jus soli , isnt it ?
James
#20
Well, unless Obama changes things (and he might) the USA still offers permanency to parents of children born in that country too.
soie5
#21
Are you sure about USA? Because I think she doesnt offer any redidency to parents based on the childs american birth. In fact , I personally know of a family whose two children are British and two are American and the husband is British as well and the wife who is a Pakistani got her visa to america refused. So , I doubt that USA offers any residency to the childs family on jus soli basis.
James
#22
Yes, at present the USA still adheres to the tradition of Jus Soli (Right of the Soil) so anyone born in the USA is an American Citizen. This is also covered by the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

While the debate comes up from-time-to-time about the issue of "anchor babies" that essentially give refuge to parents illegally in the USA, it will require a Constitutional Amendment to remove that right.

Currently there is a great deal of controversy on this very issue, but nothing has changed as of yet.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team
sandboxred
#23
James,
Coming back to a Brazilian ID that may possibly be needed to process the birth certificate of my child. You said 'The CPF of the parents does not matter at all, what is important is the civil ID of the parents (i.e. the RG - Registro Geral of a Brazilian parent or passport, RNE of a foreign parent.' and you also said that I do not qualify for an RNE yet.
It is my understanding that the earliest time I can apply for an RNE, is the same time I file for permanency, which is after the birth certificate has been issued. Hence, I won't have an RNE to process the birth certificate.
Another source told me 'you will need the CPF: a foreigner has no ID beyond their passport. You will need to be identified with a Brazilian document on the Birth Certificate - therefore you will need the CPF'. This contradicts your statement. Would it be possible for you to find out for sure whether the CPF is indeed needed or the foreign passports are sufficient? Thanks a lot. Your contributions are much appreciated.
James
#24
Really your passports are all you need in order to prove identity as far as registering the birth. I had no Brazilian documents at all, and used my passport when I registered my child. Even though I had applied for permanency several years prior, the process was bogged down and going nowhere; so I know from personal experience that your passport is all you will need.

You can apply for your CPF numbers (even as foreigners) and only need your passport. You can, in fact, apply for the CPF through the Consulado-Geral in your homeland even before you come to Brazil if you wish.

Here in Brazil you obtain the CPF either directly from the Receita Federal, or you can apply at the Correios (post office) or Caixa Econômica Federal (bank).

Regarding the RNE, you don't get that until you have applied for permanency through the Policia Federal.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team

Cheers,
James
sandboxred
#25
James, this was important information that you actually know about the passports being the only requirement from your very own experience.

One more thing. One of the requirements for the pedido de permanência com base em prole brasileira is the following:

- Declaração de que a prole vive sob sua guarda e dependência econômica, com firma reconhecida

Is this something like a notarized statement that the child lives with us parents, i.e. is economically dependent on us? How exactly does such statement have to be formulated to be sufficient for the federal police? Can we get it at the Cartório de Registro de Pessoas Naturais e Registro Civil?
James
#26
Hello sandboxred,

The Federal Police actually have a "fill-in-the-blanks" Declaração form that they will provide you with.

Yes, it is simply a sworn statement that the child lives with you and is financially dependent. They used to actually make a home visit to SEE the child. This caused major delays in processing and was one of the things done away with under the new procedures brought in on Sept. 1, 2014. The visit was replaced by the Declaration.

In some delegacies they will actually let you sign it in front of a Federal Police Agent, in other it is necessary to have your signature notarized by the Cartório. Please note that it MUST be "Reconhecimento da Firma por AUTENTICIDADE" which is the only kind accepted by the Federal Police (not the cheaper "por semelhança"). This means you BOTH must attend the Cartório in person, with identification, open a signature (Abrir a firma) if you have not already done so, and then sign their register that you've sworn the document. When you go to pick up the form from the Federal Police ask them if you can sign it in front of an Agent, or if it is necessary to go to the Cartório.

Cheers,
James       Expat-blog Experts Team
sandboxred
#27
For the registration of birth of a Brazilian born child is the marriage certificate of the parents required? Because if the parents are not married then it does not exist. And if the marriage certificate is in a foreign language, does it have to be translated, and if yes, who is allowed to make the translation, and then, does it have to be notarised as well?

In addition I have an original 'Family Certificate' from my home country, providing date of marriage, and names of parents of both spouses. Is this accepted as a substitute for the actual marriage certificate?
James
#28
It probably will all be sufficient for registering the birth of your child. You will both have to attend the Cartório together and I don't believe that a translation of the family certificate will be necessary. The Cartório will take care of everything so follow their advice.

Cheers,
James     Expat-blog Experts Team
germanbrickhouse
#29
http://www.pf.gov.br/servicos/estrangei … permanence
I found this information on the website above: 2 – While in Brazil, applicants for a permanent residence permit based on such grounds (.. family reunification, dependent minor children, marriage and civil partners ..) should comply with the following requirements: file form "Registro Nacional de Estrangeiro", available at https://servicos.dpf.gov.br/sincreWeb/; consent to the collection of biometric (fingerprints) and biographic data and provide the fees payment receipt and other required documents listed in the Annex to the Ordinance number 04/2015 - MJ;
Can anybody explain that in more detail? The link provided on the site does not work. This "Registro Nacional de Estrangeiro" incl. giving biometrics is not mentioned on the following site: http://www.pf.gov.br/servicos/estrangei … erm=140082
So, is it required or not when applying for permanent residence as a parent of a Brazilian child?
James
#30
The taking of your fingerprints and photograph all make up part of the registration process. Your photo and right thumbprint, and signature will all appear on your Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team
germanbrickhouse
#31
thanks for the quick reply! Form "Registro Nacional de Estrangeiro" is provided at FP and can be filled in right there?And one more question:
Obs.: Os documentos emitidos no exterior deverão estar legalizados por repartição consular brasileira e traduzidos por tradutor juramentado no Brasil. - does this apply to the passports of the parents or can they just be notarised at the cartório? I would reason that since they were used to travel to Brazil and immigration granted entry then they consider the passport as accepted, not needing legalisation by the Brazilian consulate of the home country.
James
#32
The documents that they're talking about that need to be legalized by the Consulado-Geral do Brasil, are things like Marriage Certificates if marrying a Brazilian abroad, foreign Brith Certificates of permanency applicants, These must also be authenticated by your country's Consulate in Brazil, or by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs if done while still in your country.

Any documents that are not in English must be translated by a sworn translator (tradutor juramentado) here in Brazil before being submitted to the Federal Police.

Cheers,
James   Expat-blog Experts Team
germanbrickhouse
#33
For the 'Pedido de permanência com base em prole brasileira' they don't ask for the applicant's birth certificate though. They only ask for the application form, two photos 3X4, authenticated complete copy of passport of both parents, certified copy of birth certificate of child, 'Declaração de que a prole vive sob sua guarda e dependência econômica com firma reconhecida', proof of payment of CODES 140066, 140082, 140120. Do I understand this correctly? Where do I obtain the child dependency declaration, and where do I pay those CODES fees?
James
#34
Regarding the declaration that the child is in your care and custody or financially dependent on you, if the Federal Police don't give you a blank form to fill in, then you can make one up yourself. (in Portuguese)

For applications based on marriage to a Brazilian, they don't ask for your Birth Certificate (but can), if you apply based on being the parent of a Brazilian child, they do ask for the child's Birth Certificate.

The GRUs that are required for the permanency you will print off, they're paid at any bank in Brazil (the Federal Police prefer Bank of Brazil) the bank returns the mechanically stamped payment portion to you. They are what you turn over to the Federal Police.

Cheers,
James    Expat-blog Experts Team
germanbrickhouse
#35
Can the guys at the Cartório type up the dependency declaration? To be sure the wording is what the FP expect. If they don't do it, can someone provide the correct text?
James
#36
Hello germanbrickhouse,

The declaration you will need is basically what appears below, it must be completed by both parents, and their signatures notarized in the Cartório (reconhecimento da firma por autenticidade).

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Declaração de que a prole vive sob a guarda e dependência econômica



Eu, _________________________________, nacionalidade, estado civil, portador(a) de passaporte/RG/RNE No. ________________, emitido por _____________, residente e domiciliado em _______________________________ No. _______, bairro________________, na cidade de ___________________, UF________.
e
Eu, _________________________________, nacionalidade, estado civil, portador(a) de passaporte/RG/RNE No. ________________, emitido por _____________, residente e domiciliado em _______________________________ No. _______, bairro________________, na cidade de ___________________, UF________.

Declaramos, sob pena da lei, que o(a) filho(a)  __________________________________________, nascido(a) no dia _____de________________________de ___________ na cidade de _______________________________________ UF________, vive sob nossa guarda e dependência econômica, conforme previsto no art. 75, inciso II, alínea "b", da Lei nº 6.815, de 19 de agosto de 1980, e na Resolução Normativa no 108, de 2014, do CNIg:

Cidade – UF, _____ de ____________ de __________

Assinatura (pai) _____________________________________________
(Reconhecimento da firma por autenticidade)

Assinatura (mãe) _____________________________________________
(Reconhecimento da firma por autenticidade)

germanbrickhouse
#37
Thanks a lot James. I also wanted to know whether a post-paid (invoice coming to my address) cell phone plan from Claro would be enough as proof of residence for permanency?
James
#38
It is not likely that the Federal Police will accept any documents that would not be acceptable to a bank for account opening, which includes:

Electric/water/gas/fixed telephone bill (in your name), or a rental contract (in your name) with signatures notarized in Cartório. Cellular telephone, sat/cable TV, and the like are not sufficient.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team
germanbrickhouse
#39
What does 'UF' in the dependence declaration mean? And the residence, do I put the one in Brazil or the one in my home country which is still my official residence as I'm not a permanent resident in Brazil yet?
James
#40
UF means "Unidade Federal" (state)... so use the two letter designator RJ for Rio de Janeiro, SP for São Paulo, MG for Minas Gerais, etc., depending on where you live. The address should be your address in Brazil. Don't forget to change "Cidade, UF" to the name of your city and state in the date line.

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

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