Szentendre area
We are expecting to move to the Szentendre area sometime this summer. Although we visited the town as tourists, we are wondering what it will be like to live there all the time !
We are both outdoor types with a big dog who needs regular walks. My partner runs and I do a bit of logging, and we both like music and art.
We are interested in hearing from anyone who lives in the area, and can tell us what its like, especially rental properties, local services like supermarkets, doctors, dentists, vets, and the social and arts scene, among a few ! Our native language is English, and we speak some French and German. We hardly speak any Hungarian at all, but we are planning to learn once we have settled.
logger
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Szentendre is quite nice. It's a little bit far away from the city and the road is a bit clogged up getting into town during the rush hour but if you are not planning to go there, then no problem and there's always the HEV (suburban railway). Most English speaking services will be in Budapest.
Couple of places worth a look - the Skanzen (open air museum) and the Aquaworld swimming pool on the other side of the new bridge. Depends if you've got kids (and how old they are).
Regarding the supermarkets - plenty of choice - Cora, Tesco, Auchan (at least towards Budapest). Not sure about vets and doctors. Dentists speaking English are relatively easy to find.
What exactly is "logging"? (Apart from cutting down trees / lumberjacking).
More specifically:
I live in the area! (Szentendre Island)
I can tell you what it's like for me, but it's not easy to guess how you guys will like it :-)
Actually, over all I'm sure you'll love it, Szentendre is such a lovely place if you can afford it, with all the friendly artsy-fartsy people.
I'm an engineer with a rabid oppinion about all the new age crap prevalent there, despite this I'm still accepted, welcome, and feel right at home there. (we live in a village right across the river.) With "social and arts scene" being one of your primary interest, you'll be ahead of me blending in right away :-)
Don't worry about the language, plenty of people speak languages there.
I hope to meet you guys when you get here!
Bring your favorite axe/chansaw, there's plenty of firewood to chop up in the back of our garden at your leasure :-)
Logging is just that - cutting and splitting wood. Some people like to run, others meditate, preparing wood for the stove does it for me !
I don't think either of us is really into this new age stuff or the artsy-fartsy crowd. My partner is an artist who paints, and we have some ideas about marketing her designs. I used to program computers for a living, but nowadays I get more of a buzz representing the artist.
Some more questions for you:
When we visited Szentendre in August, it was heaving with tourists. What's the town like the rest of the year ? We'd like to find a place up in the hills, so we can walk the dog in the woods, but also be in striking distance of the centre when we feel the need to socialise. Do you know if its a ghost town out of season ? Also, are there good paths along the river north and south of Szentendre ? Enough for now, must oil chainsaw !
logger
Out of season is strictly the coldest winter months only. Life does not stop, just confined indoors to cafes, galeries, theaters. Locals do not move away for the winter at all.
When choosing your spot keep an eye out for steep narrow dirt roads, and calculate the extra expenses of maintaining an off-road vehicle for snowy and rainy days.
Here's a map with hiking trails in the area, let me know if you need any explanation:
http://turistautak.hu/maps.php?id=magya … 64&arrow=0
IMHO the streams make the most fun trips :-)
As for out of season Szentendre, it's pretty quiet out there. The usual thing during the season is to walk through the town, eating ice cream and looking at the river. I don't think many people go there when it gets cold. The same goes for Balaton. While the weather is nice, it's great but when it starts to get cold, one soon realises how short the tourist season actually is.
p.s. I also am thinking of trying sculpture using welding equipment - gas and electric.
viktorlois.com
To steer back on topic: He's a typical Szentedre citizen!
Point taken about condition of steep narrow dirt roads during winter period. Not really into off-road vehicles. When it comes to travel weÂ’re shabby bourgeois types, willing to give public transport a try. Are there regular bus services which connect the town and the HEV train station with the different local living areas ? Are there regular local markets ?
Had a bit of trouble with the map, because we have an agricultural internet connection, and the old pc overheats processing pictures. Will try again later. You say the streams make the most fun trips. Not sure whether you mean canoeing, or that the best paths follow the streams ! What is IMHO ?
I remember my first chainsaw, an electric one with automatic sharpener. Had to be careful not to cut the lead. Now I have a gas/petrol one which has to be sharpened down the farm shop, each time I cut vintage oak. ThatÂ’s progress for you. And sometimes the tree doesnÂ’t fall the way it should, and nearly brains me. Take care with all cutting and welding equipment, you only have one body, one brain !
Szentendre does sound a lot less seasonal than Balaton, which suits us fine. Viktor Lois instruments look fun visually, but music could be a bit dodgy. Is there really a typical Szentendre citizen?
logger wrote:Good to hear people donÂ’t go away when the weather goes off, they just carry on inside. ThatÂ’s what I like to hear. Guess there are two types of locals. The ones who live and work there, like the artist welder you mentioned. But there must be more conventional suburban types who live in Szentendre and commute into Budapest for work ?
Tourists go away, and some of the facilities and services (mostly souveneer shops and restaurants) close up off season. But it's no summer home town.
A lot of "regular" people commute. I'm sitting on the HEV with hundreds of them right now.
logger wrote:Point taken about condition of steep narrow dirt roads during winter period. Not really into off-road vehicles. When it comes to travel weÂ’re shabby bourgeois types, willing to give public transport a try. Are there regular bus services which connect the town and the HEV train station with the different local living areas ? Are there regular local markets ?
Had a bit of trouble with the map, because we have an agricultural internet connection, and the old pc overheats processing pictures. Will try again later. You say the streams make the most fun trips. Not sure whether you mean canoeing, or that the best paths follow the streams ! What is IMHO ?
I'll find you a map of the local bus services (you might remember the roughly 10 bus stops clustered besides the HEV station)
And a hiking map lighter on your computer and connection as well :-)
Following the streams on criss-crossing paths is my favorite kind of hiking.
The local market is I think on Wednesdays down by the Bukkos stream.
logger wrote:Szentendre does sound a lot less seasonal than Balaton, which suits us fine. Viktor Lois instruments look fun visually, but music could be a bit dodgy. Is there really a typical Szentendre citizen?
Tourist season is at least twice as long, and the town stays alive all year around. Just not buzzing with tourists.
I'll try to find you pictures of the Christmas market.
It would be atypical for such a guy to live in a miner town or industrial town... Szentendre is arts town.
So it's the other way around: It's typical he lives here.
Good thing too: where were we without his "inverted cloudwash"? :-)
Ten bus stops at the end of the HEV line sounds like heaven. ThatÂ’s a fully comprehensive suburban drop-off service. Last summer we found Szentendre HEV trains still Soviet-era rock solid, missing the finer comforts like soft-seating and air-conditioning. Someone told us the old trains were gradually being replaced. We did spot a shiny new version in a siding, but never got to ride on one. WhatÂ’s the story on this?
Any textual links to bus and train services that donÂ’t burn up my poor old pc would be greatly appreciated. The pace of life is a lot slower here. Farmers travel at tractor speed. They have to commune with the cows. Broadband would curdle the milk ! We try to be patient with our slow internet connection, and steer clear of pictures. Should imagine broadband is prevalent in Budapest, and hopefully even out as far as Szentendre ?
How do you get from Szentendre Island to the HEV, the map doesnÂ’t show too many bridges ?
logger wrote:Should imagine broadband is prevalent in Budapest, and hopefully even out as far as Szentendre ?
Yes, it works everywhere. It's pretty fast and reliable here too. It's more reliable than say, the UK which is majorly overloaded.
Here's the Szentendre region bus line map:
http://www.volanbusz.hu/uploadfiles/14_800.pdf
Another attempt to show you a hiking map of the area:
http://www.map.hu/galeria/20081203203909.jpg
To get to my island, there's a bridge in Tahitotfalu (about halfway up the island over the narrower, western river-half) and there are a couple of ferries. The one I take you may have noticed in downtown Szentendre, just north from the ship station.
Broadband is good, but pricy outside Budapest (little competition) You can get a cell-phone based connection pretty much anywhere, even in your fishing hut out outside civilisation. ADSL is available in most settlements, and it works great. Ours got killed by a lightning strike 2 days ago, I reported yesterday and the phone company fixed it today.
You can subscribe at a bunch of ISPs, but they are all just re-selling the same infrastructure, so there's little difference.
For the sake of completeness, in inner-city Budapest there's real competition: Unbundled loop ADSL, multiple cable companies, Fiber to the home, all for ridiculously low prices. The economies of population density, if you don't mind the crowd.
For English speakers who need bus TIMETABLES for the Budapest area and all over Hungary, the same www.volanbusz.hu web site is useful. Select ENGLISH option top right of first screen. DonÂ’t select Domestic Timetables, thatÂ’s still in Hungarian. You have to first select sitemap top left of first English screen. Sitemap has an English menu, including the all important timetables.
ThatÂ’s one monster of a commute you have there szocske, drive to the dock, ferry to get off the island, then whatÂ’s it to the station, then HEV train all the way in to Buda or is it Pest ! Your island must be a real haven of peace and quiet though after work.
Question about fast internet connections: Is ADSL the technology used with cell phones, where you plug a toggle telecoms device into the USB port on your PC, with the internet service being provided via those mini radio towers that are springing up all over the place ?
To get a bit technical, most people will have DSL over their ordinary phone line (aka POTS/Annex A). To do that, you need a phone line, a splitter/filter and the right kind of modem and router. For some strange reason, most people here have separate modems and routers. This contrasts with a lot of other places where combined modem routers are the norm. Never understood that.
In any case, there are multitude of ways to connect and so long as your have or there was at some point a phone in your place in Szentendre you will have no problems at all getting connected up.
If you have an existing DSL modem and router you want to bring with you, getting it set up is fiddly. As far as I know you need the following technical parameters to be supported for T-Com Home: RFC 1483 PPPoE, Encapsulation LLC, MTU 1492, VPI 1, VCI 32.Â
If I've got that wrong, I hope someone will say what the correct parameters are (I'd like to know too!).
UPDATE: All T-Com lines in Hungary are ISDN (Annex B). A POTS (Annex A) router will not work in Hungary.
The stroll across Szentendre is another 10-15 minutes depending on urgency, but I apprechiate the health benefits. Oh, and I work on the HEV train, so that's no time lost.
ADSL is fixed line internet over the telephone wires.
Fluffy, I think mobile internet monthly rates are on par with fixed rates, for lower bandwith and reliablilty of course. So the per bandwidth price is high as you say, but for the non-technical user, the price of connectivity is not exessive.
You get the ADSL modem for free if you sign up for at least a year, and you don't need a router unless you intend to share the connection among multiple computers. I think most ISPs still have a clause in their contracts forbidding this, but it's completely accepted nowdays, the technicians help you set it up.
I'm not sure about using a non-TCom ADSL modem though: some aspect of access control used to be tied to the MAC address of the modem (bandwidth limiting IIRC). This might have changed since I had anything to do with it. They are pretty anal about what can connect to their transport network. (the only reason they don't limit your choice of computers is the two layers of inter-encapsulated tunnels their ATM network delivers unterminated to the ISPs)
Everyone else, please excuse the techno-babble :-)
There seems to be some strange parameters for DSL connections here in Hungary and it's non-standard. Equipment brought in from outside Hungary does not seem to work terribly well - I've never got my UK modem/router to work here - modem syncs Ok, logs show a connection is established but the modem does not continue the session, it just hangs thereafter. Unfortunate since it seems impossible to access the QoS (Quality of Service) parameters (presumably to stop people using VoIP equipment).
From cruising the web that Montenegro also uses the same kind of set up as Hungary and to make things worse, there's nowhere else doing the same. Bit of a disappointing mystery the whole thing. Â
If anyone knows the set up for T-Com, I'd be interested to know.
Thanks fluffy and szocske for all the good telecom techno info. As long as we donÂ’t settle for something up in the hills, looks like a simple landline connection over the ordinary phone line will be fine. We donÂ’t have an ADSL modem, so will probably sign up with the telecom company for a year in order to get one.
ThatÂ’s a healthy commute you have there szocske, biking, boating and walking. I used to be a fair weather biker myself. After looking at Szentendre bus timetables, have decided to dust down the old bike for use around town when itÂ’s not raining or snowing.
Any property sites or agents you can recommend for renting a place in Szentendre ?
Here are some hints for making sense of online ads:
nm, négyzetméter: square meter, used for the area of the house
nöl, négyszögöl: 3,6 square meters. Used for the area of the property.
szoba: room, sometimes any room, sometimes tiny rooms are counted as half.
lakás: flat only, no garden. Not for you.
ház: house, rarely without any yard. That's what you want.
kiadó: For rent, what you want. Except it also means "publisher", so if the pictures are of books and broschures instead of houses, skip the site :-)
eladó: For sale, not what you want. Still worth a try as it is near impossible to sell real estate nowdays, so sellers will settle for renting it out, if that covers the mortgage payments.
Holy price diversity, Batman!
http://www.expressz.hu/index.do?so_ns_r … ctive_date
http://www.szentendre.info/apro/ingatlan/
And the most surefire way is walking around in the target area with a cell phone in your hand, and dialing the numbers on the makeshift signs. I think you should start out staying somewhere short term with a couple of suitcases until you find the right place to rent long term.
I don't know how much you want to spend. I found a couple of places in Szentendre for HUF 160K a month (which is quite a lot to spend). Depends what you want - house, apartment etc.
It's worth keeping a sense of humour. Some people just do not know how to present their houses for sale and the real estate agents have odd ideas of what sells property. Some of the goings-on in the house photos are just so bizarre for "marketing photos". I've seen photos of people watching TV, shopping piled high, untidy bedrooms, animals, broken down cars, general mess etc. Some houses have appalling decor (either old fashioned or extra kitsch). Generally, it seems unprofessionally done - unlike the slick operations in some countries. Must be taken in good humour to avoid increased blood pressure.
For renting, the property owner pays the real estate agent (and you pay nothing to the agent). However you will need a deposit (2 x months rent usually) but it's just really a case of agreeing between yourselves. You should have a formal contract. In our case, the landlord is responsible for repairs BUT as they live in another country, we generally agree a price with trades people, tell the landlord the price who says if we should go ahead or not and if so, then we deduct from the rent. If not, it doesn't get done at any speed and that's annoying as hell. It's certainly not an ideal arrangement.
Were the places you found for 160k HUF in Szentendre big houses, say 3/4 bed 150m2+, or smaller than that? In addition to the 2 month deposit, what kind of notice period is customary? Do you usually commit to a minimum/fixed period rental period, or is it more variable, like one-month notice on either side ? Do people use supermarket notice boards for advertising house rentals ?
On another subject altogether, where's the nearest Tesco supermarket in the Szentendre area ? Does it have the same range of TescoÂ’s own products as Tesco in the UK ? Is fresh fruit and vegetables available in the winter months, or is it all bottles and cans ?
We saw a big new road bridge crossing the river at the bottom end of Szentendre Island last time we visited, does that make it easier now to drive to the airport from Szentendre ?
http://www.ingatlanbazar.hu/szentendre- … do/3141094
http://www.ingatlanbazar.hu/szentendre- … do/3403233
I'll have to leave it to Szocske to answer the Tesco and bridge question as I don't live in Szentendre. I live on the uncompleted part of the ring road/motorway further West.
For fruit and veg it can be a bit seasonal and the price varies considerably. Strawberries were the in thing a few weeks ago and I suppose the next thing will be cherry, then peach perhaps. One thing I have not understood recently is the great cucumber shortage. Like buses, they come in groups and then you don't see them for a long time before they all appear again. This oscillates through the year - if you see one, buy it as it might be weeks before you see one again. The logistics in Hungary (and Austria) are weird.
Yes, the bridge across the Danube between Budakalasz and Dunakeszi is ready and in operation. It is the last-so-far segment of the incomplete M0 highway ring aroud Budapest. It already takes you close to the Ferihegy airport (BUD), so it's a boring highway trip all the way.
The same bridge brings the Tesco in Dunakeszi close to Szentendre as well. There are Cora and Auchan hipermarkets closer still.
My impression was you could buy the same wide variety of imported container-ripened fruits all year around at these places.
Our village groceries shop never runs out of shrink-wrapped "snake" cucumbers BTW :-)
szocske wrote:Our village groceries shop never runs out of shrink-wrapped "snake" cucumbers BTW :-)
Maybe there's a secret cucumber production facility on the island - Cucumber Area 51 - perhaps.
In Budakeszi or Budaors it's cucumber poker. You never know what cucumber type hand you will be dealt, if you will be dealt one at all.
In Budakeszi or Budaors it's cucumber poker. You never know what cucumber type hand you will be dealt, if you will be dealt one at all.
Well, thereÂ’s the fragility of life for you, fluffy. Would anyone know what the cucumber supply situation is on mainland Szentendre ? IÂ’m betting somewhere between the two extremes of the fertile market garden Szentendre Island and more metropolitan Budakeszi/Budaors.
Not sure whether this has any bearing on those unexplained cucumber shortages, but Sandy Toksvig on Radio 4Â’s News Quiz mentioned recently how much sex education in girlsÂ’ schools has been upgraded since her day. Apparently the girls are now given full instruction on the correct way to put a condom on a cucumber. Though, Sandy did suggest it might be more appropriate giving them a gherkin to practice on instead, in order to avoid disappointment in adult life !
Are you quite sure those are shrink-wrapped cucumbers youÂ’ve been buying, szocske ? WouldnÂ’t even try asking what the score is on the gherkin front ! How about the lettuce?
logger wrote:..... Sandy Toksvig on Radio 4Â’s News Quiz mentioned recently how much sex education in girlsÂ’ schools has been upgraded since her day. Apparently the girls are now given full instruction on the correct way to put a condom on a cucumber. Though, Sandy did suggest it might be more appropriate giving them a gherkin to practice on instead, in order to avoid disappointment in adult life....
Ah, thank god for the BBC Iplayer. I heard that one too. News Quiz is excellent.
She's a national treasure our Sandy. When I say "our", I mean perhaps Europe, since of course, she's says always pushing that she's Danish. Not sure when does someone stop being Danish and become British or is that just a blur anyway? She sounds British and if she didn't keep mentioning it, who would know.
Knowing her lifestyle I am not sure she likes cucumbers ...shrink wrapped or otherwise.....
Digging a hole here so I'd better stop!
There's always pickles, of course :-)
IÂ’m a bit like your son, szocske, I like pickles out of season too. News about the dicey cucumber supply situation in certain areas has thoroughly vindicated my Hungarian diet transition strategy. In preparation for harsher climes in Central Europe, I already started sometime ago replacing cucumber with pickles in my daily salad.
Lettuce is more of a problem. No obvious replacement veg for lettuce in the winter months. Was thinking something like Sauerkraut, but thatÂ’s cabbage-based. Do the market garden folks on the Island have any suggestions for an all year-round Szentendre salad ?
If this is such a pressing issue, build your own greenhouse:
you are handy with the tools and have wood to burn, grow what you miss the most.
logger wrote:When we get a chance, fluffy, we listen long wave to Sandy via Radio4 World Service. And we do treasure the brief interludes of Shipping Forecast in the interminable cricket broadcasts and church services. There is something to be said for BBC Iplayer choice.
I'm absolutely a R4 fan. Top station. Thank goodness they didn't turn it into a rolling news service. World Service is a last resort usually.
Saturday is quite good for listening online to Radio 4 (R4) and no silly geographical restrictions on reception (Digital Rights Management etc) - well, most of the time. Money Box, News Quiz, Any Questions, then Any Answers. Great line up. I stick on a pair of wireless headphones while pottering about in the vicinity during lunchtime.
Also the idea of logging as a hobby got stuck in my head so long I realised harvesting grass with a scythe (is there a verb for that?) is just as viable as a hobby. For now, I call it my daily workout.
Our goats call it gourmet dining :-)
szocske
I just ran into the founder of the Hungarian Cricket federation today, he is from the UK and lives near Szentendre.
Good to hear cricket lives on. I believe there are also a couple baseball fields near Szentendre. When the Yankees arenÂ’t in town, they could double up as cricket pitches !
szocske
Also the idea of logging as a hobby got stuck in my head so long I realised harvesting grass with a scythe (is there a verb for that?) is just as viable as a hobby. For now, I call it my daily workout.
Our goats call it gourmet dining :-)
Don't let that logging idea turn your brain to sawdust, szocske. ThatÂ’s one complicated question to be asking on a Saturday night, about the word for harvesting grass with a scythe. Makes me wonder this Sunday morning, if the isolation of the Island isnÂ’t starting to get to you !
Won’t find the answer in the dictionary. All I can say is first rule of life. Keep it simple. Don’t even think about multiplying the entitties, they have a nasty habit of bouncing back and clobbering you. Keep it simple, the word is “scything”.
You know what would be cool, szocske - if you started using “scyther” as your forum name. By your own admission, it’s a true reflection of one of your weekend pastoral activities (though now I’m beginning to wonder what you keep the goat for), and the name is just as cool as logger !
Our next door neighbor keeps his lot nice and tidy with one of those big agricultural scythes. I love watching him at work, itÂ’s poetry in slow motion. When you know how to use them properly, those things have to be just as effective as one of those big turbo-charged ride-on mowers. And they donÂ’t make you deaf like a chainsaw does.
You should definitely keep up the good work on your scything skills szocske. When the oil runs out, those kind of skills will be in demand. IÂ’m starting to think seriously now, about acquiring some ear muffs for my own hobby. I never ever want to stop hearing the music.
Now about that goat ...
fluffy2560
I'm absolutely a R4 fan. Top station. Thank goodness they didn't turn it into a rolling news service. World Service is a last resort usually.
When we get over there and all hooked up to broadband, you'll have to let us know how to online Radio 4. It'll be an enormous relief to be rid of World Service !
Now about this forum name of yours, fluffy, it's all a bit townie isn't it. If szocske decides to go agricultural with a name like scyther, would you consider switching to something more industrial like welder ?
You did mention you couldn't resist a bit of ark welding.
logger wrote:Now about this forum name of yours, fluffy, it's all a bit townie isn't it......You did mention you couldn't resist a bit of ark welding.
Ah, well now. Who or what was Fluffy then? Today's big question. I'll not let on quite yet.
I'm certainly not here to correct people but Szocske would probably benefit more from ark welding, him being on an island. I'm doing arc welding sometimes if I need something done quick, but I reckon the real finesse is gas welding.
However, you need deep pockets to do gas welding in Hungary as it's hard to buy the gas bottles and only pay for refills. The only way seems to be to rent the bottles and it costs an arm and a leg (about 20 EUR a month which is insane).
logger wrote:You know what would be cool, szocske - if you started using “scyther” as your forum name. By your own admission, it’s a true reflection of one of your weekend pastoral activities (though now I’m beginning to wonder what you keep the goat for), and the name is just as cool as logger !
[...]
Now about that goat ...
Thanks for the verb, but I'll pass on the name change, Szocske means grasshopper, and is rural enough for me.
Sorry about your name-meme not spreading as fast as it could :-)
The goat is strictly for milking.
szocske wrote:
Thanks for the verb, but I'll pass on the name change, Szocske means grasshopper, and is rural enough for me.
Sorry about your name-meme not spreading as fast as it could :-)
The goat is strictly for milking.
Szocske. Grasshopper. That's such a cool name, post-industrial even. You hang out on a blade of grass, making your noise by rubbing your knees together. No waste of precious fossil fuels there, then. I swear, when we get to Szentendre, I'm going to switch my chainsaw for one of those double-handled teeth saws. Only trouble is, using one of those contraptions to cut logs, it really takes two to tango. Besides, I love the smell of fresh chainsaw oil early in the morning, before the dew dries.
How strictly do you milk the goat, szocske ? Do you drink the milk, or make cheese from it ? I hadn't realised what a rich agricultural tapestry you frontier guys out on the Island (Szententre Island) were weaving. It's not just one big cucumber patch, then !
logger wrote:Szocske. Grasshopper. That's such a cool name, post-industrial even. You hang out on a blade of grass, making your noise by rubbing your knees together. No waste of precious fossil fuels there, then. I swear, when we get to Szentendre, I'm going to switch my chainsaw for one of those double-handled teeth saws. Only trouble is, using one of those contraptions to cut logs, it really takes two to tango. Besides, I love the smell of fresh chainsaw oil early in the morning, before the dew dries.
How strictly do you milk the goat, szocske ? Do you drink the milk, or make cheese from it ? I hadn't realised what a rich agricultural tapestry you frontier guys out on the Island (Szententre Island) were weaving. It's not just one big cucumber patch, then !
Bit of a poetic mood lately? :-)
Actually I'm an IT/Telecommunications/Programmer/manager/whatever, (did I mention I'm interested in job offers from anywhere in the world as long as it pays well?) and my wife is the country girl doing the milking (twice a day, and yes, we drink it mostly, and yes, it does taste different but real cows milk tastes different from factory-milk as well, and you only feel it when you switch over. She makes soft, cottage-cheese-like breadspread from the leftover milk, it wins over cheese both in taste and utility/hassle ratio)
But we've been married 10 years now, so we blend: I scythe, haul manure, dig up the garden, whereas my wife is fully computer literate.
She and her girlfriends are gardening and raising animals to get doubtlessly fresh and chemical-free food on the table throughout the better half of the year, but it's far from professional of course. Just to give you a better sense of the scale yesterday the kids "harvested" the 10 m^2 patch of strawberries in our garden for picnic, while I'm trying to round up some bicycle wheels for a hand cart a local guy welded for us because our transportation needs start to exceed the capacity of a wheelbarrow :-)
But it's pretty far from frontier living. Most people in the village live here as if in a suburb, both parents commuting to Budapest for work, and we only meet them on the playground on weekends.
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