Hungary: government closing down freedom of information

I don't know if the HU amendments are of the same scale but just to note that the UK has some modifications to the FoIA which might be similar.

In some research work I did a couple of years ago, I had cause to try and use the FoIA in the UK on a government department.  Surprisingly I managed to just interview the right person and in the end, I didn't need to use the FoIA even though I'd already prepared the request. So I was lucky I didn't need to bring out the big guns.

Anyway, I found out that in the UK there's a similar law which says that FoIA requests can be declined if they cost too much, take too many resources,  considered repeated requests, are thought to be vexatious or the organisation has an exemption (e.g. military, police, intelligence services or even the tax or customs offices - exemptions are wide). The cost limit is currently £450.

I guess my point was that no-one seems to be complaining about the UK to the same extent. When they passed the original FoIA there, the amount of interest from the public was extremely large. They misjudged the cost (as usual) of complying by a huge amount and subsequently backtracked by introducing limits.

A common government trick is that the limit are set by statutory instruments by ministers which means no legislation need be passed in Parliament to set the FoIA limits higher and therefore reject more requests. The only way to change it is legal challenges.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I found out that in the UK there's a similar law which says that FoIA requests can be declined if they cost too much, take too many resources,  considered repeated requests, are thought to be vexatious or the organisation has an exemption

The current Hungarian law is very ambiguous, which in effect means any request could be rejected for just about any reason invented by the government.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The only way to change it is legal challenges.

Part of the new law amendment (only currently available in Hungarian) appears to prevent any legal challenges. If true, the government's declaration what can be released appears to be the final word. No appeals, and no legal options in court.

klsallee wrote:

The current Hungarian law is very ambiguous, which in effect means any request could be rejected for just about any reason invented by the government.

I bet it is ambiguous.  Usually they try and put in a catch all so they can use the law whenever they want.

klsallee wrote:

Part of the new law amendment (only currently available in Hungarian) appears to prevent any legal challenges. If true, the government's declaration what can be released appears to be the final word. No appeals, and no legal options in court.

No appeals is very very naughty. I've seen other countries legislation that has no appeal mechanism in the past and usually that's firmly criticised by other countries causing difficulties for the government internationally.

In the end, it'll have to be challenged via the democratic process. The law will probably be struck down somewhere along the line - constitutional court or ECHR maybe. In the meantime it will be in force.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The law will probably be struck down somewhere along the line - constitutional court

With a 2/3 majority, they can, and have already, nullified the constitutional court's judicial abilities :

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/03/12/hung … -eu-action

I normally stay out of local politics, but these issues are becoming quite disturbing.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've seen other countries legislation that has no appeal mechanism in the past

Yes, the issue I see here is rather that politicians do start to act "naughty" when they have too much power. No one country is immune. For example, see the below jaw dropping, and equally disturbing, act of legislative secrecy enacted recently in California (where one party also claimed a super majority in the last election):

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclu … ed-secrecy

klsallee wrote:

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/03/12/hungary-constitution-changes-warrant-eu-action

I normally stay out of local politics, but these issues are becoming quite disturbing.

I see what you mean. Pretty bad stuff.

I don't really involve myself either but even where I live it's hard to see what the government is up to (local government is same party).  They seem to be going backwards judging by the state of the place.

One can only think (hope?) the EU will do something about it. I am sure that some issues will be challenged in the ECHR, particularly I would think the definition of family, homelessness and access to fair justice to think of a few off the cuff.

I wonder how many of these changes are pandering to the socially conservative political types who might be future coalition partners.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've seen other countries legislation that has no appeal mechanism in the past

Yes, the issue I see here is rather that politicians do start to act "naughty" when they have too much power. No one country is immune. ....

It's called meglomania. It happened in the UK during Margaret Thatcher's reign. Eventually the voice of reason will prevail (or hopefully not, civil unrest) as the incumbents get stale and more and more bonkers. Unfortunately, everyone has to live with it until it's rationalised - could take years.

The electorate has only itself to blame really for this state of affairs. Bit pathetic really.

Like George W Bush - ~50% didn't vote for him but ~50% did which in itself makes one wonder what people were thinking.