Has anyone gone through the simplified naturalization precedure?

0POSTS

10 years ago

akaymik85 wrote:
The problem is, I don't speak Hungarian. My family spoke Slovakian, and are ethnic Slovaks.

Amendment of Act LV of 1993 on Hungarian Citizenship, i.e. the "simplified" procedure for Hungarian citizenship (http://www.allampolgarsag.gov.hu/images/angol.pdf):

– he or she or any of their ancestors was a Hungarian citizen or if he or she serves reason to believe his or her origin is from Hungary,

– he or she proves their knowledge of the Hungarian language

No way around the Hungarian language requirement if you apply via simplified naturalization.

akaymik85 wrote:
I have two children, who would also technically qualify for simplified naturalization as they are my natural born children and therefore also descendants of Hungarians. Could my children (ages 7 and 5) apply for naturalization, and then I somehow become naturalized after my children do?

Only if your minor children have Hungarian citizenship today (i.e. inherited from their father) can you acquire citizenship from them (and then only if you live in Hungary for some years). Sorry, but unless your children acquired their Hungarian citizenship via your husband, who is now a Hungarian citizen, this will not work in your case.

Side note: I know zero about Slovakian nationality law, but if you are ethnically Slovak, have you looked into gaining Slovakian citizenship instead?

akaymik85 New member

8POSTS

10 years ago

#242

I am American. I suppose to the firing squad it is for me, I'll just be sure to take many lessons.

Also, Blonder, I've read all your threads and you seem to be the person here with what seems to be the worst luck, sorry about that. And what did you mean by bit confusing naturalization bs simplified naturalization? Which should I be doing?

In a few days I planned on calling the embassy in a few days and asking them. I planned on using helpers.hu to assist me in all this, however since the location is in Serbia they told me they can't help me, as they don't have experience in Serbia.

Thanks for the replies!

zif Serial expat

624POSTS

10 years ago

#243

If not in this thread, then in another thread here there's a discussion about getting a birth record from Serbia. If the record still exists, it'll be with the church or perhaps the archives. Remember that not all old records still exist; you'll want to make sure you can find your ancestor's before embarking on the study of Hungarian.

Because pre-1900 birth registers were kept by the local church, it's essential that you know where your ancestor was born, keeping in mind that passed-on family history is not always reliable, and that place names, as well as family names, have often changed over time.

From what you've said here, it seems that you'd be looking at Simplified Naturalization.

1 member reacted to this post

spooty Member

19POSTS

10 years ago

#244

blonder wrote:
You have to learn basic intermediate as well as your children. No way around it.

That's inaccurate. Minors (under 18) do not need to demonstrate any language competence. You simply add them to your application (and supply any additional documents and translations, i.e. birth certificates). You (the parent) will still need to show some competence in Hungarian language. Blonder's claims of "intermediate" level Hungarian aren't substantiated anywhere else. You'll be fine with A1/A2 Hungarian. There's a reason why this thread isn't filled with people complaining about tough interviews. The "crackdown" on fraudulent applications was triggered by people who literally spoke zero Hungarian.

1 member reacted to this post

jesperss Active member

52POSTS

10 years ago

#245

akaymik85 wrote:
I am American. I suppose to the firing squad it is for me, I'll just be sure to take many lessons.

Also, Blonder, I've read all your threads and you seem to be the person here with what seems to be the worst luck, sorry about that. And what did you mean by bit confusing naturalization bs simplified naturalization? Which should I be doing?

I've been through the process recently and my experience has been absolutely great. There is NO firing squad and you'll find the people at the embassy an absolute delight to work with. I too had the same fear but they were completely unfounded.

I'd start with collecting all the necessary paperwork. Birth certificates, marriage certificates. This can me quite time consuming.

And don't let Blonder's posts discourage you. Something is very off about his entire experience.

saado New member

7POSTS

10 years ago

#246

I have gathered all documents and reached an A1/A2 level of fluency. I am nearly ready to apply. Does any have any insight on applying for the simplified procedure at an embassy/consulate versus applying directly in Hungary? My initial thought was to apply at the U.S. Consulate in New York as it's in my home jurisdiction. However, I don't live in the United States and would have to travel there to do it. I currently live in South America. Would it be faster and easier (i.e. less scrutiny) to apply directly in Hungary? Or best to go to New York?

spooty Member

19POSTS

10 years ago

#247

jesperss wrote:
There is NO firing squad and you'll find the people at the embassy an absolute delight to work with.

Agreed. The consular staff are incredibly nice and accommodating, flexible about scheduling appointments, etc. At the beginning of the process, I remarked (in English) that it surprised me that were so welcoming, and one staff member responded (in English) that their default posture is to treat you like a Hungarian citizen from the outset.

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akaymik85 New member

8POSTS

10 years ago

#248

Hello,

Thanks everyone for your responses.
It's a relief to know that my children can be added to my application. I fully intend on them to obtain dual-citizenship as well. I think learning Hungarian will be a positive thing for me, however I view it as a daunting task, and perhaps not rightly so. I've watched some videos in Hungarian this morning, and I think I will hopefully be able to obtain basic conversational Hungarian in 6-12 months. I hope that is sufficient enough. I've also considered language lessons over Skype.

I have contacted someone who will go to Padina, Vojvodina and obtain the documents I need and will have them archive verified, translated and apostilled. They also said we could get the "village registry office in Padina and get the certificates on the international form (Vienna or Paris convention)". Is that a requirement?

I'm relieved to be at this step in the process. Finding the documentation was difficult, and I only had a ship manifest of their location in Austria-Hungary. I now have old passports thanks to my aunt, which is amazing. I now have pictures, addresses, and a great wealth of information regarding my family. I also learned half of my family went to Argentina (and I will say, their life in 1930 looked *rough*).

This is a great resource, and all of you are very helpful. I'm sure I will be back seeking information. Thank you all very, very much!

spooty Member

19POSTS

10 years ago

#249

akaymik85 wrote:
I now have old passports thanks to my aunt, which is amazing.

FYI, if these are their original (Austro-Hungarian) passports, you don't even need their birth certificates:

http://allampolgarsag.gov.hu/index.php? … ;Itemid=69

You'll just need their marriage and then birth and marriage for descendants down to you.

zif Serial expat

624POSTS

10 years ago

#250

As to whether you need an apostille or the like, you should ask the embassy. At least for documents from the U.S. and some neighboring countries like Croatia, they will accept government documents as originally issued without additional formalities, except translation, of course. But whether this exemption extends to documents from Serbia, I don't know. I also don't know if there's a different treatment if the birth record is certified not by the State Archives but by a church official.

Note the apostille exemption only applies to the Simplified Naturalization procedure, not other routes to citizenship.

If you have your ancestor's passport, you can submit it, but you will not get it back. Ask the embassy to prepare a certified copy (not cheap), then submit the copy with your application.

As to language, don't underestimate the time and commitment involved.

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spooty Member

19POSTS

10 years ago

#251

zif wrote:
Ask the embassy to prepare a certified copy (not cheap), then submit the copy with your application.

FYI, I wasn't charged anything for copies made of the couple of documents where I wanted to keep the originals. Consular staff just made copies on the spot. Not sure if that's normal practice. I did have certified translations prepared to go along with them.

zif Serial expat

624POSTS

10 years ago

#252

Really! I've forgotten the exact price I was told, but it was something like 30Euro/page, maybe more.

akaymik85 New member

8POSTS

10 years ago

#253

Hi Zif,

The passports are issued from the United States, so I don't think the consulate/embassy will care. They were important documents for me however, because it verified the origin of my family.

I don't think I'm underestimating the time and commitment involved, I understand the difficulty of the language and I understand what I am trying to achieve. While I don't think it will be easy by any stretch, I'm a smart and very dedicated person, and if this is what I wish to achieve I have no doubt eventually I will. My main issue will be the time commitment.

And if they need any of my original documents, I'll have them make a copy. I don't think I can part with them. Thanks for you input

blonder Contributor

180POSTS

10 years ago

#254

Side note: I know zero about Slovakian nationality law, but if you are ethnically Slovak, have you looked into gaining Slovakian citizenship instead?

Trust me you do NOT want to go down that road. I tried for 5 years. My mother and grandparents were born in Slovakia and are citizens. The bs paperwork and xenophobic mentality there is dreadful. Slovakia is known as the worst in all the EU for granting citz. I even did my 2 years of PR there and still they wanted the world of paperwork and endless testing (HIV etc) as well as background checks from 3 countries...
Language test was professor level for and you must speak, read and write. May the recent troubled refugees keep them busy as they didn't give a hoot about a half blooded Slovak that even inherited 100 year old family land!!!
I doubt it will change anytime soon...

I'm trying to save you years of hell. I don't give up but even I finally had to after 5 years of every single way to get what I believed I was supposed to be my right. Rights like that simply do not exist in the wild west...

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akaymik85 New member

8POSTS

10 years ago

#255

Hi Blonder,

Slovakia does not have a similar program for ethnic Slovaks that I know of. My family is from Vojvodina, and that was settled by Slovaks and some Germans in the 15th and 16th century. The area is still predominately made up of Slovaks, especially Padina, the village my family comes from. Even if Slovakia did have simplified naturalization like Hungary, it wouldn't make sense as I would be unable to trace it and honestly do not feel a connection with Slovakia. Hungary is very different and very special to me.

It's too bad you had such a poor experience. I called the Hungarian consulate today for a general question and they seemed very nice and happy to help. Why do you say they are xenophobic? Have they done something specifically hateful toward you to make you feel that way (and by "they" I'm assuming the Slovakian consulate)? Just curious.

blonder Contributor

180POSTS

10 years ago

#256

Stick with the Hungarians. They do it right.

The Slovak system is archaic bs since 1993 and they are Slow-vakish to change.
Beautiful country but I prefer Hungarian mindset over Slovakian. My experience over 7 years.

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zeppelin5 Member

3POSTS

10 years ago

#257

Hi all,

I am in a similar situation to many others on the forum--my great great grandparents came from Austria-Hungary (Croatia and Slovakia), but as far as I know were ethnically Croatian and Slovakian. Blonder, zif, and others have all had great posts discussing that only citizenship, not Hungarian ethnicity, is required to apply for simplified naturalization. Additionally, I talked to the LA Consulate and they said non-ethnic Hungarian citizens of former Austro-Hungary are "eligible, but it is ultimately up to the Citizenship Office to decide if you are Hungarian." As others have mentioned as well, many of the articles online about the simplified naturalization procedure seem very centered on ethnic Magyar descendants rather than those of us from Slovakia, Croatia, etc.

This board has made me feel better in at least knowing ethnic Croatians are eligible, but I was wondering if anyone has successfully been granted citizenship in this situation? The LA Consulate just made me nervous that ethnic Croatians/Slovakians will perhaps be seen as less "Hungarian". Hopefully I am just being paranoid! I am really enjoying learning Hungarian and I am trying not to get my hopes up if there are good chances I'll be deemed "not Hungarian enough". It would be great to hear any success stories from non-ethnic Hungarians who completed the simplified naturalization process!

Thanks to everyone for all the fantastic information on this site. I have not seen an answer to this question elsewhere, so please forgive me if I am missing anything.

blonder Contributor

180POSTS

10 years ago

#258

Hello Zeppelin5
I understand what you are saying and though my grandparents were born Hungarian citizens, they lost this in 1920 due to Trianon but in writing I have from the Hungarian Embassy, "your grandparents were indeed Hungarian citizens but lost this right in 1920 during Trianon".

My first attempt failed due to language skills?, losing my documents for a year to the wrong Embassy?, mistakes in the Embassy staff who translated my documents and spelled names wrong?, just bad luck?
I'll never know as they don't have to tell you why.
2 years after the first application I studied very hard and went in and passed my Hungarian language level conversation and over 3 months ago my papers were once again submitted with corrections on translation and they stated all paperwork from 2 years prior is stored over there and therefore now its just waiting. Therefore the question of being ethnic Hungarian can be answered as YES, you are. Your grandparents lost their rights due to border changes and if there was no Trianon they would have been Hungarian citizens to this day and therefore you as well.

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zeppelin5 Member

3POSTS

10 years ago

#259

Perhaps it is silly that I didn't have a better understanding of this before, but this was the best explanation I have read anywhere!! This makes me feel much better to look at it this way.

Thank you so much! I wish you the best of luck as you wait for your answer---after reading your posts it is clear that you are very passionate about Hungary and they would be lucky to have you!

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Mercurien Active member

77POSTS

10 years ago

#260

Hey Blonder ..is that a green snake on your profile? That just almost..nearly freaks me out

blonder Contributor

180POSTS

10 years ago

#261

Harmless...born in the year of the snake.
I promise the snake is friendly

zif Serial expat

624POSTS

10 years ago

#262

I don't know about Slovakia, but Croatia is very hit-or-miss when it comes to pre-1920 records. They might have your ancestor's old birth record, but they very well may not. And if you need an old Croatian wedding documented as well, your problem is doubled.

Point is, don't invest time and hope into this until you're certain you can get the documents you'll need.

By the way, did the L.A. consul say anything about the level of Hungarian required?

Marilyn Tassy ViP

7128POSTS

10 years ago

#263

Blonder, we all wish you Hungarian citizenship.
You have put so much effort into learning and practice.
My roots on my father's side are also from former Austria/Hungary.
My father was born in 1921 just after the boarder changes. Born just about 6 miles N. of Slovakia in Poland.
I have family in Hungary as well, never knew this until just 2 years ago.
Our people are referred to as Ruysn, an excepted ethnic minority in Hungary.
I have put no real effort into learning Hungarian although I have been surrounded by Hungarians for the past 41 years.
Really, if anyone deserves to be a Hungarian citizen, it's you.
In all honesty, I doubt if anyone alive today can claim to be 100% Hungarian or 100% of any nationality, so much movement and war have made just about everyone a mixed race. You'd have to go to a very remote place to find anyone who is "pure" anything. Don't let them make you feel less Hungarian or less of anything.

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zeppelin5 Member

3POSTS

10 years ago

#264

Hi zif, great point--I hope I will be able to find the certificate, but am just starting that journey

. Fortunately, I believe my grandmother, who was also Croatian, came over separately (they got married in the states), so perhaps if I cannot find his documents I can check her hometown and have better luck. Only time will tell!

The LA consulate stressed that only basic Hungarian was needed, but after reading on this forum I'm going to try to play it safe and go for intermediate (or more if possible). Basic is not a sufficiently quantifiable term for me to confidently aim for. Better safe than sorry!

zif Serial expat

624POSTS

10 years ago

#265

Pre-1915 Croatian records should be in the State Archives, not the local registry office. So if you're going to write the Archives, you may as well ask about records for both of your ancestors. It's absolutely essential to know the correct village or parish, since that's how the record books are kept, and apparently there is no name index.

Note too that Croatian birth records before about 1900 are church records, and will usually be in hard-to-read Latin or Church Slavonic handscript, depending on the church. You'll have to arrange with the Archives for a translation to Serbo-Croatian, then have this translated into Hungarian.

Don't underestimate how long all of this can take. Allow many, many months.

By the way, the consul's comment on language was quite encouraging. As I mentioned here before, I think that it would be very difficult to reach an intermediate level without spending at least a few months in Hungary, especially if you're self-studying now without a tutor. So practically speaking, advanced basic Hungarian seems a more realistic goal.

blonder Contributor

180POSTS

10 years ago

#266

@Zep - I did the language test for my second application 3 months ago (yes, I am stubborn and don't give up on what I start)
During my oral test, I didn't know the words for "humid" and "terrible/terribly" in Hungarian...the conversation really is random and that is frustrating but fair I guess. The staff know its a hard language. I learned to speak Russian and Japanese fluently and still find Hungarian is giving me my first grey hairs.

Every consul is different -- our lovely Marilyn on this forum has seen it all regarding citizenship and she is the kind of person that has committed a lot of her life with Hungarian family and residing there. The more I learn, the more confused I become

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GuestPoster279 Guest

0POSTS

10 years ago

#267

blonder wrote:
The more I learn, the more confused I become

You have, essentially, described Hungary.

2 members reacted to this post

Marilyn Tassy ViP

7128POSTS

10 years ago

#268

Funny, sometimes I love Hungary so very much and other times I feel I am in an episode of the "Twilight Zone"!

If you can turn the conversation into the interviewer speaking on the benefits of drinking Hungarian wine , it may make the language test a breeze, worth a try...

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GuestPoster279 Guest

0POSTS

10 years ago

#269

Marilyn Tassy wrote:
If you can turn the conversation into the interviewer speaking on the benefits of drinking Hungarian wine...

contact me for samples and supplies......

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proudhungarian Member

2POSTS

10 years ago

#270

Greetings! This is my first post on this blog. I'm a Canadian citizen born and raised in Canada and now living in Phnom Penh with relatives. I'm 17 so not officially an adult yet. I was born to an ethnic Hungarian mother who was a citizen of Hungary by birth. I am in the very early stages of learning Hungarian, but my whole life i have been very vocal and proud to all my friends about my Hungarian ancestry. I just recently found out that I could be eligible for Hungarian citizenship and that would be amazing for me to have because I would love to live and study in Hungary and other nearby places in Europe in the coming years. My one conundrum (besides Hungarian being an incredibly difficult language for an English speaker) is that I haven't been in any sort of contact with my mother since I was 6 years old, and I fear I may not have any documented ID of hers anywhere. I have her signature and basic info such as place of birth in Hungary on my birth certificate but that is about it. My mother and father were never married. Any insight would be highly appreciated.

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Marilyn Tassy ViP

7128POSTS

10 years ago

#271

Firstly you seem very mature for 17 and well spoken.
My son obtained his HU citizenship through his father about 18 or so years back.
At the time my husband did all the paperwork for our son through the HU embassy in Calif. Husband had to sign several papers and show many documents proving he was born in HU etc.
Not sure what is required exactly now days.
My son is super proud to be Hungarian as well, in fact talking about Hungary is one of his favorite subjects.Their barbarian past is one of his topics of interest as well as their battles victories and losses. It's a subject he never tires of.
You should probably contact your closest HU embassy and get updated info about obtaining your HU citizenship. Good luck.

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blonder Contributor

180POSTS

10 years ago

#272

Hello!
Has anyone had any updates on their citizenship papers?
I am in my 4th month since submission and patiently awaiting a igen!

Marilyn Tassy wrote:
Firstly you seem very mature for 17 and well spoken.
My son obtained his HU citizenship through his father about 18 or so years back.
At the time my husband did all the paperwork for our son through the HU embassy in Calif. Husband had to sign several papers and show many documents proving he was born in HU etc.
Not sure what is required exactly now days.
My son is super proud to be Hungarian as well, in fact talking about Hungary is one of his favorite subjects.Their barbarian past is one of his topics of interest as well as their battles victories and losses. It's a subject he never tires of.
You should probably contact your closest HU embassy and get updated info about obtaining your HU citizenship. Good luck.

zif Serial expat

624POSTS

10 years ago

#273

Was your mother still a Hungarian citizen when you were born? If so, then you are probably already a Hungarian citizen. You'll have to file paperwork with a Hungarian embassy or consulate and wait some time for your citizenship to be recognized, but you won't have to demonstrate any Hungarian language ability.

If your mother had relinquished or otherwise lost her Hungarian citizenship before your birth, then you'd normally apply to acquire citizenship under the Simplified Naturalization procedure. This too involves paperwork and waiting, but most importantly it also requires some degree of Hungarian language skill. (There may be an exception to the language requirement for minors in certain cases, in which case you will have to move very quickly; it can take quite a bit of time to assemble the necessary documentation.)

As I recall, another poster here with unmarried parents faced quite a few bureaucratic hassles. I don't know specifically how that would affect your situation, but I suspect it'll complicate and delay processing a bit.

In any event, you will need to deal with a Hungarian embassy or consulate. Apparently the embassy in Hanoi covers Cambodia, but I believe you can contact any embassy or consulate.

1 member reacted to this post

fluffy2560 Hungary Expert

14684POSTS

10 years ago

#274

proudhungarian wrote:
.... I was born to an ethnic Hungarian mother who was a citizen of Hungary by birth. ..... My one conundrum (besides Hungarian being an incredibly difficult language for an English speaker) is that I haven't been in any sort of contact with my mother since I was 6 years old, and I fear I may not have any documented ID of hers anywhere. I have her signature and basic info such as place of birth in Hungary on my birth certificate but that is about it. My mother and father were never married. Any insight would be highly appreciated.

One of the other posters had to get the signatures of his parents to get permission to apply for a passport or something like that. And he was definitely over 18. Being under 18, you should need this paper too. So both parents have to acknowledge you as their child.

Presumably your mother is noted on your birth certificate. Obviously she was there for the birth! Her birth records should be easily verifiable in Hungary so long as you have her name, place and date of birth and her mother's last name (not her marrried name). If your mother is traceable then I would have thought you're instantly Hungarian regardless of your parents marital status and your language skills.

Why don't you contact the embassy nearest you and simply ask them what to do? For you, it should be just a matter of applying.

1 member reacted to this post

proudhungarian Member

2POSTS

10 years ago

#275

Amazing, yes she was a Hungarian citizen at the time of my birth and I'm quite sure she was not married and had her original name. I'll check in with the embassy in Ottawa most likely instead of Hanoi and see if I'm already pretty much a citizen, or if there's something more complIcated I have to do. Even in the worst case I should probably be eligible for the simplified naturalization. Thank you all for your replies, they really have helped!

1 member reacted to this post

blonder Contributor

180POSTS

10 years ago

#276

@jespers
I am simply being honest. I am not trying to put anyone off at all.
I am being 100% honest and trying to learn here as well what the next step always is.

Maybe the first time was bad luck?

I have submitted for a second time but 6 months later I have had no response from the Embassy staff. The staff were VERY kind but I think being outside of Hungary made it more of a paperwork challenge?

I studied VERY hard and simply telling my story. I love Hungary and hope many on this site get citizenship.

blonder Contributor

180POSTS

10 years ago

#277

Here were are in 2016!
Any updates? Success stories? Love to hear. I am 6 months waiting and no call back or response. Lord knows my language has fallen a bit but I am trying so hard to get it back!

1 member reacted to this post

zif Serial expat

624POSTS

10 years ago

#278

"Lord knows my language has fallen a bit . . ."

But don't some of the prior posts suggest you may at any time get a call from Budapest testing again your Hungarian?

blonder Contributor

180POSTS

10 years ago

#279

Yes. You are correct.
I was told it shouldn't take longer than Oct/Nov last year.
A friend of mine applied and is still waiting 13 months later.
Perhaps the migrant issue has slowed things down?
Usually a NO comes quickly in life.
Hoping that it's a long YES instead.
Lessons are expensive and so for a while using notes and CDs.
My feeling is if my second attempt fails, I will not try a third time as I already have a EU passport and this was for reasons of being a Hungarian by blood. Truly more emotional reasons than financial.

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Marilyn Tassy ViP

7128POSTS

10 years ago

#280

Your lucky then to have an EU passport.
I understand the emotional connection though and wanting to be a HU citizen by birth right.
My mother was raised by her Native American Mohawk grandmother, had allot of native blood in her but back in her day it was best for everyone to forget about it. ( racist America in the 1920's)
After my mother passed on I contacted the Mohawk nation just on a lark to see if any relations were still on the res.
My grandmother was born on the reservation in Conn.
I was told that many people had surnames that were in my family tree but every nation has their own blood quantum standards and my siblings and I just fell short of it.
The Mohawk nation is very strict,need 4 people living on the res. to stand up for you and claim you as one of their own.Plus blood must be at least 1/4th. DNA tests probably wouldn't narrow it down to just one nation.
No way to prove anything after everyone was gone, many home births and lost records.
Oh well, no big casino bucks for me.
No really just wanted my mother to be recognized by her tribe, no luck.
Sometimes just knowing has to be enough.
What kills me there is a US museum in Washington DC that has a photo and name plaque of my uncle on display, titled, " Charlie Rice,Famous Mohawk Fighter" he was Jack Dempsy's sparring partner and semi- famous in his own rite, pre radio.
In the end you know your family roots and even the HU gov. can not change that fact.