Quy Nonh?

Good_Man wrote:

Quy Nhon is a pretty sleepy coastal town.

This is a pretty accurate description.  I spent a long weekend there in a village just to the north of the city.  The town was on the next bay north and had a stretch of totally undeveloped beach almost as far as the eye could see.  Each morning, the villagers went to the beach for a quick dip but they were mostly farmers rather than fishermen.  You would be perfectly free to swim there but there are no amenities like fresh water except in the village.

In the city there are a couple of attractions on the south end of the bay.  One is called the Egg Beach or something similar.  It is named for the unusual large egg shaped rocks that populate the small bay.  Just above it is a restaurant that I believe used to be a part time residence of the wife of Bảo Đại, the last emperor.  This may be what Good_Man referred to as Queen's Beach.  It might be a bit much for dinner depending on your budget but it is a lovely place for an afternoon Cà phê đá.  The floor is a large fully open high ceiling area facing both the ocean and the city.  I'm not sure if the building is original or a replica but it is a lovely place. 

Just above on the hilltop is a tomb for Mạc Tử who was apparently on of Vietnam's epic poets.  I am painfully ignorant of him but I can testify that my wife was thrilled.  I bet that Ciambella could help us on this one.  The location is very beautiful as you might expect and kept a lot cleaner than a lot of similar sites in Vietnam.  All in all, the attraction of Qui Nhơn is not so much things to do but more relaxation and appreciation of the natural beauty of the bay.

Ciambella wrote:

-- too much lovesickness and torturous soul.

Sounds very Vietnamese.   

THIGV wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

-- too much lovesickness and torturous soul.

Sounds very Vietnamese.   

  I loved the poets of my father's generation; their works showed incredible wits, intelligence, and plenty of substance.  The ones of my generation were more show off type so I mostly ignored them (even though I once married to one of them --  it was during my impressionable years.)  The ones of my oldest brother's generation in which Hàn Mặc Tử belonged were all over the board with their endeavours; it's difficult to empathise with them.

BTW, I don't know whether your wife had ever learned about T.T.Kh (of the famous Hai Sắc Hoa Ti-Gôn) in school.  It's the pen name of an anonymous poet in the 1930s - 1940s (same period with Hàn Mặc Tử.) 

There have been at least a dozen theories about his/her identity, and some people even claimed that they knew the poet.  Over the decades, we (my parents, aunts, uncles, siblings, cousins -- the entire extended family) simply shook our heads whenever we read or heard of a new theory or claim.  We've kept our silence for 70+ years to protect the privacy of the person penning those poems and the product of that forbidden love, which happened to be my mother's first cousin and nephew, respectively. 

About ten years ago, we had a family pow-wow to discuss whether we should have had cleared up history now that that branch of the family had ended.  The unanimous decision:  "No. The dead need to be protected the same way as the living."  So that's that.

barrycaffrey wrote:

Just realised I have even spelt it wrong, should be Why Nhon!

I believe in southern accent vietnamese "q" is pronounced similar to "w" in English. For example, quận 1 (District 1) sounds to me like "Won mot".

This had me running round in circles. Also, quầy mot (Counter 1) is another example.

Some of the confusion was due to the northern accent "q" being more close to the English pronunciation of "q".

sanooku wrote:

I believe in southern accent vietnamese "q" is pronounced similar to "w" in English. For example, quận 1 (District 1) sounds to me like "Won mot".

This had me running round in circles. Also, quầy mot (Counter 1) is another example.

Qu in Northern accent is exactly the same as qu in English.  Think of the word "queen".  If you drop the n, then you have Quy the Northern way. 

You're absolutely correct re: qu in Southern accent. Quy is the same as "we" although some people made it sound much more curt than others. 

There is no similar English pronunciation for the Southern "quận", not because of the qu, but because Southern Vietnamese distort the â (among other vowels) until it sounds completely different with each word (â in ân nhân/benefactor is not at all the same as â in quận/district, and even more different as â in mận/plum).

I strongly believe that one should learn Vietnamese from a Northerner, and best from a Hanoian, if one wishes to have correct pronunciation.  There are very few letters most Northerners do not pronounce correctly: s/x, tr/ch, and r (they don't roll the letter).  Southern pronunciation, OTOH, has too many mistakes it would take hours to analyse.

colinoscapee wrote:

I think it can also be spelt Qui Nhon. Maybe a VN local can confirm this.

Yes, Quy Nhơn and Qui Nhơn are two alternate spellings of the same name.

Ciambella wrote:

...If you drop the n, then you have Quy (in Quy Nhon) the Northern way.  In the South, they would pronounce it as "we" or "wee".   Never as "wh".

Thanks for that. Do you have actually have a "wh" sound in vietnamese? Or should I say "Any words/phrases beginning with 'wh'?". If there arn't maybe there is no need for a 'wh' sound. The closest I've come to this sound is 'v'. e.g. vợ (wife) or vớ (socks). I guess the reason you mention it is because if "wh" sound is used by foreigner it could easily confuse vietnamese person?

colinoscapee wrote:

I think it can also be spelt Qui Nhon. Maybe a VN local can confirm this.

Ciambella wrote:

Yes, Quy Nhơn and Qui Nhơn are two alternate spellings of the same name.

Already confirmed in Post #7. No dramas in confirming it again I guess.

I checked Google maps and it seems to be okay with either spelling. Google search, although it comes up with the correct Wikipedia entry for either spelling, does give more  results for 'Quy Nhơn'.

sanooku wrote:

Already confirmed in Post #7. No dramas in confirming it again I guess.

Didn't even remember that it was I who wrote post #7.   The mind is the first thing to go.

Ciambella wrote:

sanooku wrote:

Already confirmed in Post #7. No dramas in confirming it again I guess.

Didn't even remember that it was I who wrote post #7.   The mind is the first thing to go.

Not if you stick to a healthy lifestyle.

sanooku wrote:

Do you have actually have a "wh" sound in vietnamese?

Yes. Almost every word that starts with H is pronounced as Wh although some do not have the exact blowing-out-the-candle sound.  Hoàng gia/royal, Nguyễn Huy Lượng (street in Bình Thạnh), Phan Huy Ích (street in Gò Vấp), etc. are all pronounced as wh.

Vietnamese v is pronounced exactly as v in victory, with your upper teeth touching your lower lip. 

I said "never as wh" because spouse was confused when I said Vietnamese v is the same as English v.  Not until I stopped, thought about it, and corrected my generalisation.

Ciambella wrote:

sanooku wrote:

Do you have actually have a "wh" sound in vietnamese?

Yes. Almost every word that starts with H is pronounced as Wh although some do not have the exact blowing-out-the-candle sound.  Hoàng gia/royal, Nguyễn Huy Lượng (street in Bình Thạnh), Phan Huy Ích (street in Gò Vấp), etc. are all pronounced as wh.

Southern or northern dialect? Or same with both?

According to this video, 'H' is pronounnced different to 'Wh'.

sanooku wrote:

Southern or northern dialect? Or same with both?

Northern.  Southern accent is harder.

sanooku wrote:

According to this video, 'H' is pronounnced different to 'Wh'.

Not really.  She demonstrated the sound as "a sigh when tired", so it's very close to wh, but the example she gave doesn't reflect the typical h sound.  Ho/cough has a harder sound than all of the h words, it's one of the "do not have the exact blowing-out-the-candle sound" words that I mentioned.

Ciambella wrote:

..."a sigh when tired", so it's very close to wh,....

A sigh when tired is close to 'wh'?...hmmm 

I thought everyone sighed the same, no matter where you are from. For example: Vietnamese, American, Australian, Japanese or from Timbuktu. I've listened to the video on many occasions and there's certainly no wh sound in her demonstrated sigh.

...but the example she gave doesn't reflect the typical h sound.

How can it be both very close to the wh sound BUT ALSO not reflect the typical h sound. Wouldn't she be best placed to give a typical h sound that would be closer (to the h sound), and then give the sounds that don't typically reflect, as caveats.

sanooku wrote:

A sigh when tired is close to 'wh'?...hmmm 

I thought everyone sighed the same, no matter where you are from. For example: Vietnamese, American, Australian, Japanese or from Timbuktu. I've listened to the video on many occasions and there's certainly no wh sound in her demonstrated sigh.

She demonstrated the pronunciation of the consonant h by exhaling with her mouth open.  She called it a sigh.  Doing the exact same way, you should get the same result.  I don't know what to tell you if you heard a different sound from her than you expected.  I heard the sound she tried to demonstrate even though she doesn't have the clearest pronunciation, and she also has a tendency of stressing a word unnecessarily.  I guess she thought it would sound better with a sing-song quality. 

sanooku wrote:

How can it be both very close to the wh sound BUT ALSO not reflect the typical h sound.

Read my explanation (post #19): "Almost every word that starts with H is pronounced as Wh although some [of them] do not have the exact blowing-out-the-candle sound" 

The same letter is not pronounced the exact same way every single time in the languages I speak.  Exceptions happened in English, French, and Italian, and exceptions also happened in Vietnamese.

sanooku wrote:

Wouldn't she be best placed to give a typical h sound that would be closer (to the h sound), and then give the sounds that don't typically reflect, as caveats.

Why don't you send her an email and ask her? 

I do not want to get into the nitty gritty of pronunciation on a forum, especially on a thread that isn't about language.  One learns to pronounce by listening and imitating, preferably in person when Q&A can be dealt with immediately.  YouTube is not the best medium, and expat.com is even farther from being the right place.

I've spent a lot of time on many threads explaining Vietnamese vocabulary and grammar, and I don't mind keep on doing it when I see a need, but pronunciation is not something I can explain well in text.  (I did it once, and thankfully, THIGV and Matt understood everything I said <whew>.  But then again, both gentlemen have Vietnamese wives so they're very familiar with the language.)

I suggest that you get yourself a good teacher and have all of your questions answered to your satisfaction.

To the OP (barrycaffrey):  Sorry to hijack the thread.  This reply is my last invasion on Quy Nhơn.  I'm out.

Ciambella wrote:

....YouTube is not the best medium,.....[

I really feel that most of what you said (i.e. youtube not being the best medium etc. ) should have been said in your previous post. i.e.Post #21 It could have saved us a lot of ink.

Anyway, I should highlight that some very reputed language schools rely on youtube to post material, and sometimes they post taster sessions. So, just because there are some BAD videos, it would probably be somewhat strange to use the same brush to paint them all as "bad".

The same letter is not pronounced the exact same way every single time in all the languages I speak.  Exceptions happened in English, French, and Italian, and exceptions also happened in Vietnamese."

I know. Which is why I've SAID, how come she does not demonstrate the common/usual sound, then demonstrate any caveats. This is not asking you to reply on her behalf, it's highlighting the fact that if what you say is to hold water, she ought to have demonstrated things differently.

As far as teachers go. I have the best teacher on Earth right now. Wanna know?..It's me!. I know several self-taught expats. Not only Vietnamese, but thai, which is harder because it's a completely different script.