Does your Vietnamese wife do this?
@gobot hHi, been married 14 years to VN lady. It doesn't get any easier. Yes, when she is with other VN speaking people & in particular her family, I don't exist, she completely ignores me. Sorry to say, I am feeling very alone and ready to pull the plug and move on.- @kimey2261
My wife's family always make sure that I'm involved in conversations. They even ask for my opinion, whether they follow my advice is a different story. All of my wife's family ask about me to see how I am. Much of this comes from the fact that my inlaws and wife's extended family are simple country folk.
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Oh, my, I recall that some years back, when my late Dad left me a golden 'nugget' for me to ponder over " son, be careful; Annam women are very fierce"! And it does ring true!!@ they sure are....pretty unsure of herself and needs control over almost everything (low esteem)..
So far, I have been choosing 'flight' over 'fight' because her excuse had been 'raised by an abusive parent who stifled her sense of respect ' and now try to understand her own identity and what that means. But often at the expense of a struggling big EGO. And sometimes, she even does a bit of 'gaslighting' (don't know if she aware or not) So, just one fine day, when the reservoir 'breaks', it's then que sera sera....
...
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@gobot hHi, been married 14 years to VN lady. It doesn't get any easier. Yes, when she is with other VN speaking people & in particular her family, I don't exist, she completely ignores me. Sorry to say, I am feeling very alone and ready to pull the plug and move on.- @kimey2261Pull the plug mate, thats my advice, thats no way to treat anyone & there are lots out there to take her place & might just treat you with a bit of respect. As someone who has also lived here 14 years plus just like you & have had 3 long term relationships with Vietnamese women I can honestly say I would never ever accept that s**t. I dont give a dam about her family & the culture thing. In any relationship its a 50/50 thing & being ignored, treated with dis respect just because "its the culture" & you are not Vietnamese dont wash it with me & you know what when you set the rules from the start it dont happen! or certainly did not with me.- @goodolboyI'm really glad you posted this, as it's kind of the other side of the coin from my point of view, yet a perfectly valid opinion and philosophy.I've spent enough time in Vietnam to know that there are a lot of miserable expats who are trying to figure out what's keeping them from being happy.I don't think the answer is "the Vietnamese woman".I think people create their own unhappiness when they try to put their square peg in a round hole, so to speak.There definitely are many, many Vietnamese women who would be happy to be in the relationship you describe.The trick is to make 100% sure that you are both on the same page.My future wife would never have been asked to be my fiancée if we hadn't already spent a significant amount of time being sure that we are in agreement about boundaries.The rules we have adopted (and are both expected to follow) are a result of both of us being firm about non-negotiable needs.You might very well be miserable (or gone) in the type of relationship I have with my future wife.Meanwhile, I always wish you nothing but happiness in the relationship you've got going with your partner.- @OceanBeach92107
I agree, if the rules are set right from the beginning then each person can decide to carry on with the relationship or pull the plug & move on. I came here to live 2008 for the love of a beautiful Vietnamese lady not for the love of her family & friends. Stayed with her for the best part of 8 happy adventurous years & was always treated with respect by her family & friends (her mother & father were dead so did not have that hurdle to jump) but her brothers & sisters treated me like a VIP always & this was not a poor country family who were looking for lets say financial support from the stupid foreigner!
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1@VN Expat : the reason why they do not consider this rude is mainly because they have never known what is 'consideration for others'. They do not seem aware that growing up, there are other people around to balance up behavior and mainly exist in their own 'spheres', except family but not others - in the society. Hence, no cohesion in VN psyche...my take..
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@gobot family first- this happen is due to the fact of language barrier and culture misunderstanding. Most Vietnamese think that foreigner think it’s rude to barge in a conversation so they stay quiet. Plus it’s depend on your level of Vietnamese, being loud and around someone else who doesn’t speaks the language might seems tense so they tend to avoid that also. Plus u probably bring home the bacon so they watch what they say around. This is not for all but there’s a hierarchy if she’s from a more traditional family.
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@gobot Got the silent grumpy treatment yesterday when l stopped to let a girl on a motorbike pass as we were walking to our bike. As for the family thing, yes but in a big family get together l can always find someone to drink with. My wife’s family has always been very welcoming.
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@Travelfar you are lucky your wife speaks on the phone. Mine yells.
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I am looking forward to marrying a Vietnamese woman.. This thread though fun to read but also scares me a little.. I have been in a serious relationship with a VN girl in the past. I love VN and their culture bit on the same grounds as Indian culture.
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@gobot Having come from Australia and been married to a Vietnamese for 12 years, there are certain customs which you can exercise depending on the occasion. There is a marked difference between Vietnamese educated in a international institution compared to the local pleb school.
1. Door opening for ANYONE is normally not expected and is generally a thankless task, but coming from a "civilized" society, we try to set a good courteous example by opening doors for "ladies first" and holding doors open for following parties, but it will be seldom appreciated. In Vietnam among the plebeians, it is everyone for themselves - eg queue jumping by friends, generally without objection.
2. Vietnamese tend to be multi-task when it comes to conversation. The conversation interruption criteria actually refers to "age takes preference" except for kids who will interrupt at anytime. The normal VN way of holding a plebeian persons attention is to keep tapping them, or asking "nghe không?" are you hearing me ? (both extremely rude mannerisms by western standards) but acceptable practice in VN.
The key to success is always to gauge your relationship to that person and the situation, since your wife would already be understanding of your peculiarities
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Having grown up as a kid in Malaysia and Singapore, and in the Air Force trained pilots and air traffic cintrollers from many Asian countries, I offer this. If 2 people from vastly different cultures want to hang out together, there has to be clear and unambiguous understanding of each other's needs and wants. I often sit, listening to high speed Vietnamese being spoken amongst large family group, but my wife knows, that every few minutes, she has to let me in on the conversation and explain. Often I use Google translate to inject a bit of whacky Aussie humour in there, generally well received. Communication,understanding and sometimes a little dose of insistence goes a long way...
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Since I have only had one Vietnamese wife, I often attribute her unusual behavior to ALL Vietnamese. Help me out guys, and Vietnamese who are lurking here too.Is this normal? Is it just her? Got other examples?
1. "The man enters first".Culture shock when I first met her. In America, the man holds the door for any woman, and follows her. As if Her Ladyship is being "presented" to the guests beyond. My wife's rule is the strong man goes first, to clear a path through the jungle, slay the tigers, for her safety. I quickly retrained her for taxis, where it is a struggle for me being tall and bigger. However barging through doors and crowds allowing her to trail in my wake - I don't mind.2. "Family first"We live with some of her family members. Whenever I am having a conversation with my wife, I am invisible to everyone else. They think nothing of interrupting, telling stories, yelling questions from upstairs, and the moment they start speaking, I become instantly invisible to her. Our discussion vaporizes mid-sentence. Eventually when there is lull, sometimes she remembers I am there, sometimes she remembers what we were discussing. [Workaround: I take the iPad to the dinner table.]- @gobot
Don't think too much about it. There are huge differences in culture to the Western way of doing things.
Men are first in the Vietnamese culture. The classic example is in family gatherings. The men(including boys) eat first at the family table, whilst the women eat at the back, in the kitchen.
Men are first in the Vietnamese culture. The classic example is in family gatherings. The men(including boys) eat first at the family table, whilst the women eat at the back, in the kitchen.
As for feeling ignored, It is really not the case, and I highly doubt she means it. Sometimes excitement gets the better of them, particularly in families that are fun and friendly. If you really want that attention, you should start learning to speak Vietnamese. You'd be the center of attention at that point.
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OB,
Yea, we're doing fine. On the same page, writing a book of life.
Of course there are, there is more than a singular view as you have said. Fun thread as this is already. No need to add another. Appears it's evolving on it's own.
Mac
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2Since I have only had one Vietnamese wife, I often attribute her unusual behavior to ALL Vietnamese. Help me out guys, and Vietnamese who are lurking here too.Is this normal? Is it just her? Got other examples?
1. "The man enters first".Culture shock when I first met her. In America, the man holds the door for any woman, and follows her. As if Her Ladyship is being "presented" to the guests beyond. My wife's rule is the strong man goes first, to clear a path through the jungle, slay the tigers, for her safety. I quickly retrained her for taxis, where it is a struggle for me being tall and bigger. However barging through doors and crowds allowing her to trail in my wake - I don't mind.2. "Family first"We live with some of her family members. Whenever I am having a conversation with my wife, I am invisible to everyone else. They think nothing of interrupting, telling stories, yelling questions from upstairs, and the moment they start speaking, I become instantly invisible to her. Our discussion vaporizes mid-sentence. Eventually when there is lull, sometimes she remembers I am there, sometimes she remembers what we were discussing. [Workaround: I take the iPad to the dinner table.]- @gobotDon't think too much about it. There are huge differences in culture to the Western way of doing things.
Men are first in the Vietnamese culture. The classic example is in family gatherings. The men(including boys) eat first at the family table, whilst the women eat at the back, in the kitchen.- @cossmo
You should not generalise, you are quoting from your own particular experience. My experience ......In the 14 years + I have lived here in the countryside Tay Ninh & the city HCMC I have been to literally dozens of family gatherings here, weddings, "happy BD mummy & daddy die parties" TET parties etc etc & not all are like you say where the men & boys eat first, been to some where that happens, been to some where all the men sit together eating & get pissed out of their heads & all the women sit together but everyone eats at the same time, & been to some where the men, women sit together & eating & drinking at the same time.
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2Actually, all of these so-called differences are like a 'storm in a teacup'. At the end of it, if we approach in a conciliatory tone, iron out issues and suppress our chauvinism and big ego a bit (raised in the Western culture), all issues can be just "swept under the carpet." After all, the union is for life. The sun will rise again in the East for another day..
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1Actually, all of these so-called differences are like a 'storm in a teacup'. At the end of it, if we approach in a conciliatory tone, iron out issues and suppress our chauvinism and big ego a bit (raised in the Western culture), all issues can be just "swept under the carpet." After all, the union is for life. The sun will rise again in the East for another day..
- @Swee Loke
What does ego and chauvanism have to do with it. My wife does certain things that drive me bonkers, nothing to do with ego or such.
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Actually, all of these so-called differences are like a 'storm in a teacup'. At the end of it, if we approach in a conciliatory tone, iron out issues and suppress our chauvinism and big ego a bit (raised in the Western culture), all issues can be just "swept under the carpet." After all, the union is for life. The sun will rise again in the East for another day..
- @Swee LokeWhat does ego and chauvanism have to do with it. My wife does certain things that drive me bonkers, nothing to do with ego or such.- @colinoscapee
Sorry to hear that. In that case, it's more patience and tolerance called for. While courting, did she also do those 'certain things' too.? Or was it after the vows, that she does it? Did you make it known how such behavior affects you? Or is it after repeated 'warnings' that she still persists in doing so. Question that begs is Why?
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Actually, all of these so-called differences are like a 'storm in a teacup'. At the end of it, if we approach in a conciliatory tone, iron out issues and suppress our chauvinism and big ego a bit (raised in the Western culture), all issues can be just "swept under the carpet." After all, the union is for life. The sun will rise again in the East for another day..
- @Swee LokeWhat does ego and chauvanism have to do with it. My wife does certain things that drive me bonkers, nothing to do with ego or such.- @colinoscapeeSorry to hear that. In that case, it's more patience and tolerance called for. While courting, did she also do those 'certain things' too.? Or was it after the vows, that she does it? Did you make it known how such behavior affects you? Or is it after repeated 'warnings' that she still persists in doing so. Question that begs is Why?- @Swee Loke
Been the same since day 1. Doesnt turn off lights, doesnt close doors and cooks everything on the highest setting. Been like this for 7-years, I doubt it will change. Knowing many expats in Viet Nam and Australia who are married to a VN, they all have the same stories.
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The "door thing" is made in America. I'm talking as a Swiss, don't know if it's same all over Europe. Yes, the husband always let his wife go first. WITH ONE EXCEPTION: entering a restaurant. Are you really so rude and let your wife talk to the restaurant receptionist?The "family thing": absolutely. I'm inexistent.- @tluesche
You are right. I have been so rude. I hope she forgives me.
Next time in America, when we go a restaurant, rules of Chivalry will win over Manners -- with sword raised, it will be I who is first through the gates! Only I will deal with Restaurant Receptionist, and her ladyship shall have No Words with the beast. 
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3The "door thing" is made in America. I'm talking as a Swiss, don't know if it's same all over Europe. Yes, the husband always let his wife go first. WITH ONE EXCEPTION: entering a restaurant. Are you really so rude and let your wife talk to the restaurant receptionist?The "family thing": absolutely. I'm inexistent.- @tluescheYou are right. I have been so rude. I hope she forgives me.Next time in America, when we go a restaurant, rules of Chivalry will win over Manners -- with sword raised, it will be I who is first through the gates! Only I will deal with Restaurant Receptionist, and her ladyship shall have No Words with the beast.- @gobot
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My motto has always been, as so eloquently stated by Casey Neistat,“Experience does for the soul, what education does for the mind.”- @Aidan in HCMCTouchy feely- @gobotbut ok. There is a difference, education vs experience, thinking vs doing.
Of course there is a difference. That's why it's called an anology. Obviously education/mind to experience/soul are not synonymous.
I must confess that even my limited Vietnamese language skills exceed my emoji-ese.
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@Travelfar you are lucky your wife speaks on the phone. Mine yells.
- @Andrew Paul Gregory
Yes, well, she has a tendency to shout into the phone. On the rare occasion when I have been on the receiving end of the phone conversation, I have had to remind her NOT to shout as it causes the phone to distort the sound so I can't understand her. She is good about doing so with me, but ... habits are hard to break.
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@gobot I As an LeadershipEnglish teacher there - I was impressed that we in the west may be way behind in our own beliefs about child rearing.A.- @aubmush7I see your point, but in this particular case I think it should be restaurant dependent. The idea of "children being allowed to be children" is fantastic, but people should also be able to enjoy a nice restaurant without the disruption, particularly if they are treating themselves to an upscale meal that they normally wouldn't.But yes, if that's the way it is in VN, then the foreigner should adjust.Roger- @RTLisSB
Unfortunately, that is the way it is in Vietnam and perhaps other parts of Asia. There is always the potential to have your meal disrupted by someone else's kids. Sometimes, younger children want to share their toys, or gangs of older kids decide to play tag.
Sometimes, there are even kids in bars/pubs. Also, if there are kids living on your floor in your condo/apartment building, you'll need to learn to live with noise or move to another place.
Smokers are another potential meal disturbance as well.
Anyway, after a decade or two, when you've seen just about everything, the culture shock wears off, and most things don't even faze you anymore.
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Oh, I forgot to mention that sometimes it's the restaurant owner's kid(s) and/or their dog(s) bugging you.
Or, sometimes their mates/buddies stop by to have some drinks and a meal and bring their kids, too.
Or, sometimes their mates/buddies stop by to have some drinks and a meal and bring their kids, too.
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@johnross23
Sometimes, there are even kids in bars/pubs. Also, if there are kids living on your floor in your condo/apartment building, you'll need to learn to live with noise or move to another place.
Smokers are another potential meal disturbance as well.
Anyway, after a decade or two, when you've seen just about everything, the culture shock wears off, and most things don't even faze you anymore.
Tell me about it & you forgot to mention.......out having a quiet meal with the wife or GF & some drunken twat comes to your table & demands you down a beer with him & wont take f**k off for an answer
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@Aidan in HCMC Haha I'm with you there too I've had mine for 6 years now.
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I didn't know i was marrying a my mother in viet form.b haha I don't know how I made it 50 years without her and her instructions@gobot
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@OceanBeach92107 yes sir I think you are correct. I hate to hear people having bad time in their marriages I would not trade my wife for anything even though there's so many things that irritate the hell out of me. I guess I had had such bad marriages in the past I've been married twice before that she seems like an angel to me and her family I probably love them as much as she does. There's cultural differences for sure probably the biggest thing that can irritate me is when I am talking to my wife and I ask her if she understands she says uhhuh like she does but then it comes out later she didn't know what I was talking about and when this thing happens whatever it is it was complete surprised to her haha but hey 6 years and I'm more in love with her now than I ever was I lived with her both in Vietnam and now we are here in the states but I recently retired and I am looking to return to Vietnam. A guy that works for me in Vietnam another American he also married a lady from Vietnam and now she and my wife actually work at the same nail shop. And he was telling me some problems he had he didn't like the fact she sends her dad money and that sort of thing and I told him I said you know you married Vietnamese woman and she will always be Vietnamese woman she will not you will not wake up one morning and she's a blonde haired American lady and you wouldn't want that I don't think. I know I sure as hell wouldn't I've had enough of American women
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1Having grown up as a kid in Malaysia and Singapore, and in the Air Force trained pilots and air traffic cintrollers from many Asian countries, I offer this. If 2 people from vastly different cultures want to hang out together, there has to be clear and unambiguous understanding of each other's needs and wants. I often sit, listening to high speed Vietnamese being spoken amongst large family group, but my wife knows, that every few minutes, she has to let me in on the conversation and explain. Often I use Google translate to inject a bit of whacky Aussie humour in there, generally well received. Communication,understanding and sometimes a little dose of insistence goes a long way...- @findgw
AH, me a now half sighted former wannabe private pilot, great to find another who understands and remembers:
Aviate
Navigate
Communicate
"Off we go into the wild blue yonder . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .climbing high into the sun. . . . . . . . . . Here they come . . . . . . .zooming to meet our thunder, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .At 'em boys, Give 'er the gun!"
Ah, memories @findgw, I looked into getting there again, but here in VN restrictions on flying are difficult to all but imagine.
HOWEVER, teaching principles of flight at local Viet vocational college, . . . . . asking government permission for such folly as flying with half blind one here in the delta, off towards open ocean, ah, yea. . . . give it a go? but maybe, just maybe? . . . . . a hang glider,
OPPS, NOPE! . . . .no hills 0h dang! but wait . . . a powered glider? always wind around here, Ah, but it can drop off suddenly. . . . . restart the little engine, there ya go!
. . . . . . .bit me wife said NO! . . . . . . .close me eyes then, relax . . . . . .great memories;
"Off we go into the wild blue yonder . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .climbing high into the sun. . . . . . . . . . Here they come . . . . . . .zooming to meet our thunder, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .At 'em boys, Give 'er the gun!"
my brother brings me another beer, in a glass filled with ice; "Cảm ơn anh trai, em thấy anh đã mua cho em một cái! YO!
Best of regards,
Mac
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Regarding foreigner with Vietnamese girl ....How soon after becoming intimate would the topic of marriage be expected to raise its head?
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Regarding foreigner with Vietnamese girl ....How soon after becoming intimate would the topic of marriage be expected to raise its head?- @Bill2014
This question seems to imply that decent Vietnamese women will want to be intimate with you before discussing marriage.
Sure, you can find what seems to be a lot of Vietnamese women who will do that.
But old-fashioned girls aren't like that (and not necessarily attracted to foreigners either).
To answer your question it would be important to know what type of woman you've chosen.
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Since I have only had one Vietnamese wife, I often attribute her unusual behavior to ALL Vietnamese. Help me out guys, and Vietnamese who are lurking here too.2. "Family first"We live with some of her family members. Whenever I am having a conversation with my wife, I am invisible to everyone else. They think nothing of interrupting, telling stories, yelling questions from upstairs, and the moment they start speaking, I become instantly invisible to her. Our discussion vaporizes mid-sentence. Eventually when there is lull, sometimes she remembers I am there, sometimes she remembers what we were discussing. [Workaround: I take the iPad to the dinner table.]- @gobot
i have been saving my response/s to write extensively as your list is woefully inadequate in the possible number of issues, even if restricted to 'wives' (and family).
but with a recent litany of computer and Internet problems, my much more extensive list is as yet incomplete, and in any case, i thought it more practical to cover one point at a time, starting with the above.
there are two closely related issues in my own experience -
1. the pervasive pattern of discussion where family will blithely just talk right over the top of you, and everyone else - a multi-threaded discussion (i hesitate to use the word 'conversation') you could say. (note this can happen, but to a much lesser pervasive degree in other countries, where someone thinks that what they have to say is more important than anything you might be saying.)
2. and this is combined with the other pervasive practice - being totally and completely ignored by everyone while they carry on endlessly in Vietnamese. (i see some (one?) post where they said that their wife or someone regularly translated the gist of the discussion for them every so often.
well, in my experience that is very much the exception. it is my own personal practice, to ask my wife every so often (as she will (still) rarely do so proactively herself) just what the hell is being discussed (given she is my wife, and the only one with any English at all).
but both these common practices, and the lack of any real conversational tieng Viet by myself and other expats, mean that family and other social gathering are usually really frustrating and really boring. so Kindle and a bottle of red wine or beer is my answer. i basically take myself off somewhere and try to relax, but is really not an optimal or enjoyable occasion/experience (but i am not allowed to opt out).
i note as a digression that the best solution is of course having conversational Vietnamese: but i note that many expats simply do not want to makes the effort (and courtesy) of learning the slightest Vietnamese, or in my own, and possibly others, case, it is simply too difficult, especially when you are older. as an contrasting example, i personally know of two young/er AU acquaintances who, in two years or so of immersive study, ie in Vietnam, became very skilful at spoken Vietnamese (and much admired).
another related source of frustration is that i used to frequently use Google (carefully) to help have bi-lingual conversations - but it is a very rare occurrence where any Viet person does the same.
(an underlying problem is that, as well, very few Vietnamese have even the slightest spoken English - and that would get me on to yet another related subject - the appalling standard of English teaching in schools, and even Universities, eg my DIL apparently passed some English exam at Uni a while ago, and she can barely speak a work of English - even now after living with us for over a year, she still struggles to remember 'Good morning' etc)
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I just got back from hometown. Three days of being ignored. I drank alot. Alone. It used to bother me. It doesn't any longer. Totally good with it now that I no longer care what anyone is saying or thinking. I used to worry they were talking about me. They aren't. So I no longer care.
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5ADDP,- @Mac68Is this cryptic?- @colinoscapee
It must be his version of a quiz to test us! As for me ......dont have a clue what he is on about!
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Regarding foreigner with Vietnamese girl ....How soon after becoming intimate would the topic of marriage be expected to raise its head?- @Bill2014
Most likely, the topic will come up before intimacy. If afterwards, soon after the inevitable pregnancy?
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1Fortunate guy I am. ADDP,
Best to understand issues of my students (Teach English, Science and Math in context) I am learning Tieng Viet. Humbling at times. But, a necessary endeavor, makes for most understanding.
My 2 c
Mac
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1ADDP,- @Mac68Is this cryptic?- @colinoscapeeIt must be his version of a quiz to test us! As for me ......dont have a clue what he is on about!- @goodolboy
My apologies, not cryptic.
ADDP = A Di Da Da Phat. Buddhist we are. Common to say most often, even when feeling left out.
Mac
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Fortunate guy I am. ADDP,Best to understand issues of my students (Teach English, Science and Math in context) I am learning Tieng Viet. Humbling at times. But, a necessary endeavor, makes for most understanding.My 2 cMac- @Mac68
Just curious, Mac.
Are you using Rosettastone, Duolingo, or any other language learning software, or just trying to learn on your own?
How long have you been at it?
Cheers,
Roger
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@RTLisSB
Greetings,
I am using "Language Hut" for the internet side, comments about local dialect are most interesting, must take into account as already experienced same discrepancies'. Also using 2 (books) Beginning Ting Viet, language learning program from Victoria University of Technology, my students are my tutors. They decipher along with my tutelage, the English instructions contained. Fun, respectful and humbling again.
We challenge each other, most pleasing for both parties to do, lot of laughter and fun learning, informal atmosphere, we are all peers here.
Maybe this type of exchange would be helpful for you also.
How long have I been at it? We moved back to VN in May, I previously taught and learned with Spanish speaking population in America. Courses 7- 8, 9-12. Same work really, different levels of previous leaning with pretty much all students.
My experience has taught me, takes 3-4 years to become a novice in a new language where consistent effort is applied.
My Best to You in your Quests,
Mac
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