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will I be able to find a job without a previous experience in teaching

G
#1
Hi everybody,

My name is Amir. I'm a French born from Tunisian parents, living in Canada for almost 14 years and previously in France . I possess the 3 citizenships (Canadian, French and Tunisian). I am planning to move to Jakarta in the upcoming months. I'm sure that I will be in need of some guidance throughout this process from my fellow expats. I'm very happy to have found this forum from which I already benefited much. I know that everyone's time is valuable so I won't waste it by doing a very long presentation. So to make a long story short, I am planning, like I said, on moving in July from Montreal, Canada to Jakarta to get married to an Indonesian citizen. As for the Visa, CNI, marriage permit, KITAS and KITAP, we pretty much understand the process and it seems that it is doable. My main issue has to do with getting a work permit and a job while waiting for the KITAP. Career wise I don't have a very appealing CV as I spent many of my adulthood seeking a law degree which I sadly missed out by an inch (I had one class left). I have my high school diploma and I have completed 98 credits on 101 credits in the Law school bachelor program of the University of Montreal. So up to now, I have mainly been working in small job in the service sector (customers service representative, credit agent, administrative agent and security officer). But I have read that teaching languages are one of the easiest entry into the very much protected indonesian job market. I also know that as a French and Canadian passeport holder I could be eligible for teaching French or English as I might be considered a native speaker in both languages but of course I know that I need the right academic requirements as well. The thing is that I don't have yet any experience or certification to teach these languages. I have found some in-class intensive program at a renowned Canadian institute, who follows The Cambridge program, from which I could get the basic certificates to be able to teach (CELTA for English or CEFLE for French). My worries lies in the fact that even if I were to complete one of these program, will I be able to find a job without a previous experience in teaching? Which one should I go for?
Do you know about other job opportunities for expats that would fit my profile? Are there some other loophole or opportunities for expats to be able to provide for their family while waiting for the permanent residency card?

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions.

Thanks
See also
Fred
#2
Start with this lot

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 06#4309140

A 12 month ITAS should be easy enough but you may have to prove you can support yourself without working.

If you have a degree in English and CELTA, there's a better than average chance you'll find a legal job with work permit in a school somewhere.
Use your Canadian passport and you're considered a native speaker - Bonus points for that.

If it's possible to live outside Jakarta, it's a good idea.
G
#3
Hi Fred,

I wanted to thank very much for the help and the link. I have been going through it steadily and I am starting to have a clearer picture of the life in Indonesia and its immigration process.

As for the work permit, I most probably need one to be better able to provide for my future family in the two first years so I feel that my only viable option is to teach either English or French but I know that there are many more opportunities in English. My issue is that all the schools asks for a bachelor's degree (in any major most oftenly) to teach like for exemple English First Private School. I wonder if you have heard of someone who was able to get a language teaching job without it and if so what are the odds?

As for having to prove that I can support myself without work, do they check my future spouse (my sponsor) account for a particular amount or mine or both? And what is the total amount required?

Thanks again
Fred
#4
When I went through all the immigration stuff they hardly bothered checking financials but that was a long time ago. I no longer have to bother with any of that stuff but I keep hearing stories of people being checked. I would love a few newer applicants to leave comments as to their move through the process so I can get a view of how things are for new expats.

There is a requirement for a degree but many posters have come on here and said they managed jobs without one. That's entirely possible as there are so few expats here but it's a bad idea to take a job without the company sorting out a work permit for you.

There is a movement here trying to get the education ministry to add English at primary school level, something I strongly support, but I don't see that happening without a lot of serious support, and how much of that there is in debate.

Private language schools tend to offer the lower end of the pay scale, commonly 11 million or so per month.
You can easily live on that but it's not enough to do any serious saving.
G
#5
I greatly appreciate the fast reply.

If I find anything about the new financial criteria for expats,  I will share it here.

I will also try to contact and to apply to as many schools as possible, in Jakarta and the surroundings, to be sponsored for the work permit.

I think that the idea of adding English in the primary level is bound to happen as it is a must in the this age of globalization, English is paramount to be competitive on the local an international job market scale.
Fred
#6
I should add one possible issue, racism has been reported as a problem, people with white skin commonly treated better than others. Sad, but possibly sometimes true.

I'm guessing from your profile you're in possession of a tan so I'd love to hear if you experience any issues - That would confirm or damage anecdotal evidence I've heard over time.
Fred
#7

Amir1919 wrote:

I think that the idea of adding English in the primary level is bound to happen as it is a must in the this age of globalization, English is paramount to be competitive on the local an international job market scale.


I think it's absolutely essential for Indonesia.
Indonesia sees far fewer tourists than Malaysia, Thailand, and Singapore, one of the reasons for that poor performance, in my humble opinion, being the general lack of English speakers here.

Indonesia has amazing attractions but Singapore, essentially a large shopping centre (I'm going to get hammered for that :D), sees more tourists every year than we do.
Malaysia gets way more because tourism there is so easy. The long free VOA available to many tourists and the ease of finding English speakers means that country is an absolute magnet for tourist Dollars.

If there's one thing I'd like to see here, it's English in primary schools - That one addition would change Indonesia in ways most people can't even imagine. The vast majority of tourist money goes into local economies where it's most needed, and that changes everything for local communities. That's just tourism, wait until they see the advantages to general business and other sectors.

That, in the short to medium term, would mean a lot of new expats until Indonesia became independent because we have locals trained up to a high enough standard.

G
#8
Yes, next to a caucasian I would certainly look a little bit tanned but compared to an Indonesian, I would probably look similirar give or take depending on sun exposure...anyways silly biases will always exist and I sadly I had some similar feedbacks from my future family in law who warned me about racism and as an Arab I might face it the most as I have been told. If it is true which I can't tell for sure until I see it with my eyes, it wouldn't surprise me as racism is world phenomenon so Indonesia wouldn't be worst than any other country. As for looking for a job as an expatriate I hope that I won't face it too much.

Btw I am still confused about the requirements of having a university degree to be able to legally work. Is it something mentioned in the law for all work permit to be emitted? And are there any exceptions when it comes to teaching a foreign language?

Because I have been looking at so many job ads (in teaching and other fields) and all of them require a minimum of a University degree...even on this website you have wrote previously that no degree equates to no job...can you please clarifie. Because I can still aquire a language teaching certificate in a short time but as for a university degree no chance. After days of searching through the Indonesian job market it seems that I unemployable and won't be able to provide for my family on a ITAS...

Are the requirements for working the same for the ITAP?

I wanted to know as well, if I were to get my Social Budaya Visa in Singapore as many advise could I only take a one way ticket from Canada to Singapore and a one way ticket from Singapore to Jakarta with no return ticket to save money without being bother at the Indonesian borders?

Thanks!
Fred
#9
The chances of a Canadian passport holder being asked to show an exit ticket at immigration are all but zero but, if it happens, grab your phone and find the cheapest flight out to anywhere you fancy.
As a SosBud holder would have to leave Indonesia if they want to covert to a KITAS, this is hardly a problem. As the SosBud can be extended twice without leaving the country, no exit ticket is hardly likely to be a problem.
G
#10
That's great! It means that I might get my Visa in one day with the help of an agent and do some savings on the one way ticket on Singapore.

Do you have any advice on making the SosBud in Singapore? And how it works best?

Thanks Fred for info!
Fred
#11
Sadly I am unable to assist you on that. My one and only Sosbud was a long time ago and, much as I was unaware until later, the immigration officer was bent and ripped me off in epic fashion.
G
#12
I see...I am sorry to hear that you got ripped off...At least it seems to have changed for the best for what I have read on many forums.

Sorry to insistant on that one questions about job requirements that I mentioned before:
"Btw I am still confused about the requirements of having a university degree to be able to legally work. Is it something mentioned in the law for all work permit to be emitted? And are there any exceptions when it comes to teaching a foreign language?

Because I have been looking at so many job ads (in teaching and other fields) and all of them require a minimum of a University degree...even on this website you have wrote previously that no degree equates to no job...can you please clarifie. Because I can still aquire a language teaching certificate in a short time but as for a university degree no chance. After days of searching through the Indonesian job market it seems that I unemployable and won't be able to provide for my family on a ITAS...

Are the requirements for working the same for the ITAP?"

Do you have any clues?
Fred
#13
ITAP is a visa type, but you'll end up with an ITAS.
Working is a separate thing as you'd need a work permit and that should require a degree, but this is Indonesia and rules are commonly flexible.
G
#14
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Fred
#15
You need someone with first hand knowledge of the situation as it stands at the moment - Hopefully Luke will chime in
G
#16
Hopefully!
lukereg
#17
Yes you can work here without a degree and just a teaching certificate if you can find a place that is desperate to hire a teacher without the correct qualifications but you will have to look hard but it can be done.
Experience can count. If you are a Canadian passport holder that will help you but you have to knock on a lot of doors.
Whilst the market for teachers isn't flooded there seems to be a lot more legally qualified people applying for jobs now although the turnover is still high.
For visas, if you are on a spousal visa or need to be then you do need to ensure all paperwork is correct and the telex is made. Agents in Singapore are simple enough to find to help the process.

With schools coming to the end of the school year there will be vacancies and also now is a good time to advertise as a private tutor as people will be interested.

However if you are fluent in Arabic then there is a market here for you. Are you actually in Indonesia or coming to Indonesia?
G
#18
Hi Luke,

I'm not there yet I was planning to come to Jakarta at the end of June. My future spouse is going to sponsor my Sosial Budaya Visa by sending me an invitation letter and I was planning to get my Visa from the Indonesian embassy in Singapore which is supposed to be easier and quicker. I don't how it works exactly yet. I will try get it the same day I would arrive early in Singapore so that I can maybe have it at the end of the day. We are planning to celebrate and register our marriage in July after getting the CNI and the Marriage permit done. Then we will apply for my KITAS. Meanwhile I wanted to get a job but I didn't get my degree per say even though I have done pretty much a bachelor in law...I don't think that pretty much will count for much when comes to the law...

I do speak and understand most of the Arabic language at least big chunk of it but my reading and writing is slow. It is my parents mother tongue but even them they speak more of the Tunisian slang than the classical Arabic.

I have done pretty much all my studies in French and English as second language, Canada being a bilingual country. I did two ESL programs and achieved the advancd level. I was planning on doing either the CELTA or CEFLE (to teach french) depending on the job market. Which language do you advise me?

I do possess the Canadian, French and Tunisian citizenship if that matters.

I actually have already created my account on Tutoroo to see if there was a demand...but I thought it was illegal to teach without* a work permit privately? I didn't take customers yet even though some interest was shown. What do advise.

I thank you very for all the help!
Fred
#19

Amir1919 wrote:

I do possess the Canadian, French and Tunisian citizenship if that matters.


Canadian matters when it comes to teaching English as it's a 'native speaker' country.

Amir1919 wrote:

I actually have already created my account on Tutoroo to see if there was a demand...but I thought it was illegal to teach with a work permit privately?


A work permit allows you to work at the named site and nowhere else.

G
#20
"With schools coming to the end of the school year there will be vacancies and also now is a good time to advertise as a private tutor as people will be interested."

So then I can't advertise myself as a private tutor and actually teach.
G
#21
I actually have already created my account on Tutoroo to see if there was a demand...but I thought it was illegal to teach withOUT* (SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION) a work permit privately? I didn't take customers yet even though some interest was shown. What do advise.

I understand that it is illegal to work anywhere and in whatever field without the work permit  and it gives you the right to work with a specific employer only for a specific time period.
G
#22
Luke do you know of any school where I should try myself?
Most of those I found on the Web,  they state clearly that they require a degree and sometimes experience...maybe those who don't are not necessarily posting ads. I guess I will only find out when arriving there...at least I know it is possible.
lukereg
#23
If you are teaching through the internet and in the privacy of your own home then who would know?

The quickest way to find out if yo ucan get a teaching job is to send you CV to as many schools as possible in the area of Indonesia you are looking to settle in.  There are 2 ways to find work here, through applying online or knocking on doors and asking. I can't recommend any schools but if you are heading to Jakarta then try ILP, Penabur, Ipeka, or LEC and see what they advise.

However, if you have neither degree or teaching certificate then no one will look. A Celta will be welcomed if you are planning to get one but as far as I know you can't obtain one here anymore.
Fred
#24
Teaching on the internet is very likely to be ignored.

Teaching from home on a spouse sponsored KITAS is likely to be ignored as long as you stick to word of mouth advertising.

Teaching from home on a wife sponsored KITAP as a part time teacher is absolutely legal.

Trick is, be honest with immigration and let them decide to ignore you, as they probably will, and as they did with me.
G
#25
Thanks Fred, that is probably what I will do if can't find a job. How about other remote jobs through Internet? Does the same ruling apply?
G
#26
And Luke what are the differences between CELTA, TESOL and TELF in terms of finding a teaching job in Jakarta? Will any of them do the same? Or is the CELTA the most likely to be the only one to get me a job there? (Which might explain why it is so much more expensive to get than the other ones)
Do the employers give an importance if the CELTA, TESOL OR TELF was made in class or online? Do you advise any institutions for getting one of them online?

I hope you won't be too annoyed by this load of questions...because you are of such a great help to me and Fred as well so I am taking fully advantage if this opportunity!

Thanks guys!
lukereg
#27
The thing that is most likely to get you a job is mailing everyone and putting your name out there.

There is no guarantee of success or failure. It's a big country and there is a need for native speakers. You have to apply. As someone who grades and assess for English as a second language, I look at qualification first (so yes a Celta is better but may not contain skills directly for teaching 5 year olds) including degree, then through an interview assess and gauge how communicative the person is and how they present and then experience, but that's just me and no I am not going to offer you a job as its now no longer a direct part of what I do here.

For the differences between a CELTA and TEFL:

https://www.gooverseas.com/blog/what-is … a-and-tefl

This might help.
G
#28
Yes, thank you it did help but I am still indecisive because I would like to teach to young learners and in the same time be sure that a regular TELF/TESOL on my CV will be enough for the Indonesian job market. I will follow your advice and apply everywhere I can, hopefully I will get some interviews.

Thanks again Luke!
Fred
#29
As a note, there is a movement pushing for the return of English lessons in primary, and that's likely to be very good news for both expats and Indonesia.
Watch this space
Angy Buleh
#30
My experience is that newly graduated Australian University female students will work for less money while trying to have a holiday as well. If you really want to teach at a private school you really the papers to back that up.
G
#31
What about public schools ?
Fred
#32

Amir1919 wrote:

What about public schools ?


Many don't have the cash and a lot don't have the inclination.
The vast majority of SMP, SMA, and SMK have very limited English teaching and no way to enhance it - but that might well be changing in a few  - wink wink

G
#33
How about other remote jobs available through Internet? If I find one as a KITAS holder sponsored by an Indonesian spouse will I be bother by immigration?
Fred
#34

Amir1919 wrote:

How about other remote jobs available through Internet? If I find one as a KITAS holder sponsored by an Indonesian spouse will I be bother by immigration?


Internet only stuff isn't usually a problem as long as it doesn't take work away from an Indonesian.
Immigration, up to last time I heard, did a Nelson job on foreign spouses as long as no one complained.

G
#35
You seem to have inside info on reintroduction of English in schools. I hope it is coming soon!
Fred
#36

Amir1919 wrote:

You seem to have inside info on reintroduction of English in schools. I hope it is coming soon!


I just keep my ear to the ground - and I'm pushing for it as I know how much difference it will make to my beautiful Indonesia.

yudirajput
#37

@lukereg Hi Luke, I hope you are keeping well. I know I am responding to an old post here. If I may ask, what are the chances of getting hired (in any profession) if I am fluent in both Arabic/English with a Canadian passport ?

Christo Muller
#38

Are there any Instrumentation Technician work available? I would love to work as an Expat in the country.?


Is there a recruiter that can mail or any other means that that I can submit my CV,


Kind regards

Fred
#39
Are there any Instrumentation Technician work available? I would love to work as an Expat in the country.?
Is there a recruiter that can mail or any other means that that I can submit my CV,

Kind regards
-@Christo Muller

Your best bet is to contact companies within your industry (Google time). If you have skills unavailable from local workers (and usually degree educated), you have a good chance.

Christo Muller
#40

Awesome. thank you very much

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