New KITAS regulations?

0POSTS

11 years ago

Hello!
I'm currently working in Indonesia (on a very tiny remote island) and hold a valid KITAS until Septembre.
I've recently heard rumors about some new (again) KITAS regulations, such as an Indonesian language test being asked (and having to be done in Jakarta... very practical when you are not living overthere, and Indonesia being such a big country...) and also being able to prove 3 years at a university.
I cannot find any info online about this and I wonder if this is just a rumor or not...

Does anybody have any info about this?

Thanks!

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Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

At the moment, UU6/2011 applies (with 31/2013), and there's nothing in that about learning Indonesian.
To go WNI, there is a requirement to learn Indonesian, but that option is only available after a minimum of 5 years continuous stay in the country.
I'm unaware of anything new at this moment in time.

GuestPoster503 Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

That's not the Indonesian learning part that scared me in this rumor, it's more the 3 years Uni thing ^_^
My Indonesian language skills are pretty poor at the moment, but I'm learning :-)

Thank you for your reply!

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

To get a work permit for some jobs, teaching comes to mind, you must have a degree level education.
Being forced to do a language course/test in Jakarta is (EDIT - it seems, not) a wild fabrication.
However, this test idea will probably available in many places, if it ever happens.

As for poor Indonesian language skills, most people pick up some if they're staying her for a year, but it's a must if you're here for the long haul.
Not from a legal point of view, just so you can interact properly.
Start with one to a thousand, that'll help you a lot when you go shopping.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

Off topic.
I've just looked at your profile, noticing the underwater photography bit.
You you have any photos on the web and, if so, would it be possible to post a link, please?

GuestPoster503 Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

Numbers are quite ok now, and some basic sentences and vocabulary but, I cannot hold a conversation...

You can have a look there for the pictures, they are not all mine though, also from my boyfriend:
http://laamudiveandsurf.wordpress.com (we are not operating anymore overthere, the dive centre changed owners and name, but we've put so much efforts in this blog at the time that we couldn't decide to shut it down ^_^ )

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

Nice photos.
Could be a huntsman spider, but I'm not even close to sure.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

Oops.

Thinking there's no smoke without fire, and having a little spare time, I've looked again and, the news may be bad.
http://finance.detik.com/read/2015/01/0 … -indonesia

It's in Indonesian, but the upshot is, some dudes in the ministry of Labour want all foreign workers to do an Indonesian test, run by the university of Indonesia.
This is expected to be sorted out by February.
Directors and commissioners, along with entertainers will be exempt.
You'll also have to provide a copy of your degree, and an outline of how you'll help train locals in your given skill.

My notes - If it ever gets put into place (Debatable), it'll probably be dumped by April or May, when they find out foreign workers, commonly only here for a year or two, give Indonesia the finger, preferring to work in Malaysia or where ever.
Imagine some bloke coming to work for EF for a year spending six months learning the language before he can take a low paid job.
Not going to happen, and employers will probably do what the cinemas did when a dude decreed all cinemas were only allowed to show Indonesian made films.
When the audiences disappeared into thin air, the law was quietly dropped.
Whilst I encourage people who work here to learn a little Indonesian and get to know the local culture, who the hell is going to learn a language to a serious level for one year of work?

GuestPoster503 Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

I put the translation (from google translate ^_^ ), it migh interest other foreign workers in Indonesia:
Jakarta- earlier this year, the Foreign Workers (TKA) who want to work in Indonesia should learn and fluent in Indonesian. Indonesian proficiency test immediately enacted and became one of the requirements that must be filled with TKA.

This is in line with the policy of the Ministry of Labor that was brewing revision Permenakertrans No. 12/2013 on Procedures for foreign manpower. Revision is expected to be completed harmonized Permenakertrans Ministry of Justice and Human Rights in February 2015.

"We hope that next February revision is completed and test the ability of Indonesian could be implemented for the foreign workers who want to work in Indonesia," said Labour Minister M Hanif Dhakiri in a written release received in Jakarta, Friday (01/02/2015).

In preparing test materials Indonesian capability, said Hanif, DG Employment Development (Binapenta) Kemnaker has teamed up with Language Development Institute, University of Indonesia. The possibility of testing the ability of Indonesian for the foreign workers it will be determined by the level of ability of Indonesian, such TOIFL test (Test of Indonesian as Foreign Language).

Hanif added, in addition to test the ability of Indonesian, the revised draft Permenaker that the foreign workers must also meet other requirements in a way to upload (upload) the licensing documents through the online system.

"Other conditions that must be satisfied that the foreign workers are to have a minimum of a diploma or certificate S1 uploaded by TKA. Also includes a certificate of competency tests for each job title and description of work experience," said Hanif.

Moreover, according to Hanif, the foreign workers must also be willing to make a statement to transfer expertise of Indonesian Workers (TKI) companion by the name, address, occupation, and employment contracts. However, this requirement shall not apply to foreign workers with the position of directors and commissioners, after sales service, and impresario services (administration brings entertainment in the form, send, or restore the artist or athlete Indonesian and foreign).

However, how one can be fluent or even speak a little of a language before he/she spends time in the country is beyond me...

Do you have any idea if this "diploma or certificate S1" is a university degree?

Thanks a lot for your time!

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#10

LaMissJude wrote:
However, how one can be fluent or even speak a little of a language before he/she spends time in the country is beyond me...

Do you have any idea if this "diploma or certificate S1" is a university degree?

Thanks a lot for your time!

It's possible to get pretty good at a language without entering a country, but who would?
My Mandarin was getting pretty sweet, but that was done for work (Mostly), as I was doing a lot of trade with local Chinese communities, and it paid well, so was worth exploring the language.
Many, maybe most, foreign specialists won't want to bother, so just divert to another country, leaving Indonesia short of essential skills, so they can say "Bye bye" to trade and/or development.
They'll realise that after a while, so be forced to dump the silly requirement.
Some bright spark does this from time to time, creating very ill thought out ideas, and try to make them work.
They did it with the cinemas, destroying attendance.
They introduced a really bad curriculum into schools, and have been forced to scrap it less than a year in.
Now some item is trying to do this, but it won't work.

It's nationalism gone silly.
One dude a couple of years ago, announced Indonesian would be the world language.
Quite how they were going to manage that was never explained, but he said it anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I love this country, have lived here for many years, and want to help it become the best it can be.
The way to do that is to encourage expertise from all over the world, and gain experience in as much as possible, making Indonesia into a richer country, able to educate and help its people far better than it can at the moment.
This idea is counter productive to Indonesia, so I can't agree with it, and don't think it'll last anyway.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#11

I’m not certain of this is a case of “nationalism on steroids” or rather, a bit of paranoia.

Yesterday I had a chat with my wife’s uncle (high level in immigration) and he confided that there is a “sense of concern” over what the new ASEAN agreement will mean for Indonesia. This new agreement comes into effect sometime this year and it will allow for citizens of ASEAN member countries to move about freely and be employed in other ASEAN member countries.

Of course this begs the question…will other ASEAN member countries also enact regulations requiring college degree level education and language proficiency? I don’t know the answer, but what my wife’s uncle commented about makes some sense to me as Indonesia has historically walked the thin line trying to preserve its cultural heritage while at the same time attracting highly skilled labor and business investment.

Bottom line…stay tuned to see what really develops.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#12

Ubudian wrote:
I’m not certain of this is a case of “nationalism on steroids” or rather, a bit of paranoia.

Yesterday I had a chat with my wife’s uncle (high level in immigration) and he confided that there is a “sense of concern” over what the new ASEAN agreement will mean for Indonesia. This new agreement comes into effect sometime this year and it will allow for citizens of ASEAN member countries to move about freely and be employed in other ASEAN member countries.

If your take on this is correct, and it makes a lot of sense, the law may well be applied to some, and ignored as far as others are concerned.
It seems to have just exploded onto the media, so there's still more guessing and maybes than fact.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#13

The numbers of expats working in the country is falling due to the over the top expectations for expats to come and work here. Whilst there should be standards, raising the bar higher than the neighbours because 'they can', will not pay in the long run and the country will fall behind Malayisa and Thailand and ultimately Burma (because I can't spell myrmar or whatever its called) as they begin to welcome western investment and cash.
Working for the largest employer of westerners in the country I have seen a drop in numbers and a change in direction, because of the costs, paperwork and red tape and sheer hard work it takes to now have westerners work here.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#14

"If your take on this is correct..."

When have I ever been incorrect?

Happy New Year amigo!

Luke, I'm not so sure it's a bad thing that there are less foreigners working here in Indonesia. Nor would I agree that it's a bad thing for Indonesia in the long haul.

What is an undeniably good thing however is the increasing numbers of Indonesian college graduates year after year (educated both here and abroad), and the increasing number of Indonesians in those jobs requiring the highest levels of skill and/or experience. Finally, I don't see Indonesia falling behind either Malaysia* or Thailand anytime soon either, and for certain, Myanmar.

IMHO, jobs in Indonesia should be first for Indonesians...and if anything, that seems to be the current trend. I hope it keeps up, as I didn't move to Bali all those years ago to be surrounded by other westerners.

*The western press has been having a field day applauding the professionalism and humanity with Indonesia's handling of the Air Asia flight in stark contrast with the missing Malaysian Air flight. Some have called the difference, "night and day."

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#15

I hope so Roy but its not how that is viewed by people I speak to here however, time will tell. Like you I came here not to be surrounded by other Westerners and apart from work I am fairly successful at that bit but I feel Indonesia does need to still be guided and supported by people of all nationalities who can continue to improve all standards of life, commerce and industry until such times when it can be fully standalone. That time is coming, just not yet.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#16

I hear what you’re saying Luke, and like you I’ve run into expats with this “neocolonialism attitude” as well. It never ceases to amaze me how some westerners have a sense of entitlement to a job here in Indonesia. Upon first meeting expats of that ilk I often like to quip, “so, where’s your pith helmet and khaki jacket?”

From where I sit the Indonesians I know well, (and they are predominantly Balinese) are fiercely independent and while happy to have some western ideas or support, they will not let anyone tell them what to do…and that even includes Jakarta.

Three hundred and fifty years of Dutch colonial rule over most all of what is present day Indonesia has left its mark on the psyche of the Indonesian people. Moreover I have yet to meet any expat which Indonesia needed more than the expat needed Indonesia.

IMHO Indonesia does an excellent job of graciously accepting foreign help when it’s needed and past disasters such as the great tsunami, the Bali bombing, and the overall fight against terrorism are all proof of that. But, this country’s destiny and its future growth is up to the people of Indonesia, and it seems to me, that’s just the way it should be.

As for Indonesia’s standing in relation to other countries of SE Asia I have to meet any Indonesian who cares a flip about that. Of course there is a strong rivalry between Malaysia and Indonesia, but that’s a horse of a different color. And, when you come right down to it, Indonesia is the only SE Asian country that is a member of the G20…and that says a lot about Indonesia’s standing in the world.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#17

Bagus atua tidak Bagus?

http://jakarta.coconuts.co/2015/01/05/n … ency-tests

Looks like I might to polish up on my mau bakso language

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#18

What do you suppose the idea behind this is?:

"Hanif added that, in addition to testing their Indonesian abilities, the revision to the foreign manpower law would require foreign workers to upload their work permit documents through an online system."

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#19

lukereg wrote:
Bagus atua tidak Bagus?

Tidak bagus.

This is going to put many off coming to Indonesia, slowing down development, and Indonesia's ability to compete in the world.
I love this country, so must oppose anything that will hurt it.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#20

I guess this is to allow for the most qualified / eager / willing people to come here only and I agree with every think PaK Fred said.

GuestPoster503 Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

#21

So can somebody tell me. What is the final decision? Will foreign people applying for kitas have a test on Indonesian language? I really like to know. Thanks

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#22

It seems they dropped it.....

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#23

happyhour wrote:
It seems they dropped it.....

I've been trawling the sites for an answer to this one, but all are coming back with something like, supposed to be happening, but no one seems to know anything official.
Have you heard something?

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#24

I have not heard anything official yet also just read in the Jakartapost about it the other day in an article that the language test might be dropped. It was told by some government people who did not want to be named.....since then also no further news on the subject.

Will try to look for it....if I can find it I will post here

happyhour ViP

1588POSTS

11 years ago

#25

Fred, that's the article I was talking about.

http://m.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/0 … gners.html

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#26

happyhour wrote:
Fred, that's the article I was talking about.

http://m.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/0 … gners.html

It looks as if it's a dead duck, but I tend to think it was stillborn.
The whole idea is unworkable - if you want foreign expertise to assist Indonesia's growth.
Another "Indonesian films only" idea.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#27

"I have not heard anything official yet..."

Nor will you. That's not the way things work here. Whenever a dumb idea gets floated, and then eventually sunk, it just goes away with no more mention about it. It's akin to saving face.