Moving FROM Hungary

I indicated already that Hungary is moving very very fast into the worsening (pricing) direction , we bought a property in Hungary almost 7 years ago, this worked out quite fine, but over the years things in general but specifically on pricing became much more like Western Europe. Yes we can pay, yes we can live with additional (European regs). But things are moving in the wrong direction,
In the Netherlands if your cat shits in the wrong garden you can get punished, in Germany a dog is allowed barking one hour per day (and not at all at night), our dog is very quiet, but these type of rules..

Bottom line however increase of cost and the good price of property is a good reason to move.
Likely Alanya in Turkey.

I will continue to follow the forum and if allowed post on my experiences (I have to say even if I did move countries frequently it is still very stressful).

Just don't move to Norway :D

Prices are going up world wide, not just in Hungary.
Every decade or so things really take a jump.
My parents bought a working class home in S.Cal. around 1967 for $17,500 US.
Today the very same house is listed for over $800,000!
We purchased our flat in Budapest 13 or so years ago.
For ages the price just flat lined but now, yes it has more then doubled in price.
Doesn't matter to us, still just chump change if we ever wnated t move back to the US.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Prices are going up world wide, not just in Hungary.
Every decade or so things really take a jump.
My parents bought a working class home in S.Cal. around 1967 for $17,500 US.
Today the very same house is listed for over $800,000!
We purchased our flat in Budapest 13 or so years ago.
For ages the price just flat lined but now, yes it has more then doubled in price.
Doesn't matter to us, still just chump change if we ever wnated t move back to the US.

But their wages were a lot less than what it would be now.

I totally agree prices are going up very very fast, To me it is much more on a relative basis, Thailand or Bali would also have been good for me.
Question is how many more years do I have (10 would already be nice), no children which can be a minus or plus. Perhaps naive, but I am at an age that I can still move, in a few years time my mind will not be as good (taxes, planning, organizing etc).

Being a veg in an Apartment (with lift)  is easier then in a country house.

SimCityAT wrote:

Just don't move to Norway :D

Or Switzerland.   I was told cannot flush your toilets at night.

BTW, as a barometer on rising costs, I saw a litre of 95 or diesel was 439 HUF at one of my local filling stations.  Cheaper at Aldi.

I expect prices are rising to pay for the Pope's short visit.  I'm hearing much traffic chaos is expected.

If you move to Norway, you  have  to buy a Tesla.  It's compulsory there to own one.

cdw057 wrote:

.....
In the Netherlands if your cat shits in the wrong garden you can get punished, in Germany a dog is allowed barking one hour per day (and not at all at night), our dog is very quiet, but these type of rules..

Bottom line however increase of cost and the good price of property is a good reason to move.
Likely Alanya in Turkey.

I will continue to follow the forum and if allowed post on my experiences (I have to say even if I did move countries frequently it is still very stressful).

I suppose people have to speak very harshly to their dogs and cats or the cops will take them away for punishment or reform dog/cat school.    Like errant teenagers, there's always going to be one who breaks the rules.

I watch people burning their leaves each year.  I can see them doing it on the hills opposite each year.  Even though it not allowed around here.

I heard a law they were bringing in, in Australia, that all cats must be kept indoors unless they can not enter in the neighbours garden.

SimCityAT wrote:

I heard a law they were bringing in, in Australia, that all cats must be kept indoors unless they can not enter in the neighbours garden.

I think those cats need a good talking to.   And the wallabies and koalas. And the duck billed platypusses...platypussies......or platypusi....? Err.....

We have a special thing we use to stop cats coming in our garden. It's called a dog.

And we also now have a cat and that's pretty intolerant of feline interlopers into her territory.

Australia is sometimes a land of extremist views.  People cannot visit other states because of COVID.  I believe their new COVID laws are some of the harshest in the world.   Looks like their Feds completely messed up their vaccination programme.

SimCityAT wrote:
Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Prices are going up world wide, not just in Hungary.
Every decade or so things really take a jump.
My parents bought a working class home in S.Cal. around 1967 for $17,500 US.
Today the very same house is listed for over $800,000!
We purchased our flat in Budapest 13 or so years ago.
For ages the price just flat lined but now, yes it has more then doubled in price.
Doesn't matter to us, still just chump change if we ever wnated t move back to the US.

But their wages were a lot less than what it would be now.

True but they got more for their wages also.


I can't remember how much my step-father made but something like $12.50 an hour.
He was a tool grinder in the "skunk works" dept. at Lockheed in Burbank Ca.
My mother was able to be a stay at home mom and we had enough to live middle class on one paycheck, 6 t 7 people in the home at a time, plus a dog.
We could take a family vaction every year and my mther used to drive nothing less then a 2 year old Caddie for her local running around to the markets and taking us places.
My step-dad had 3 motorbikes, one was a Harley.
He even paid for my sister big white wedding.
We were not the richest family on the st. either.
My friend who lived 2 doors down had a father who was a firefighter. Only 2 children in the fam.
Her parents used to go to huge fireman's balls in evening wear all the time.
Now to afford a $800,000 house I'm sure it would take 2 incomes with a salary of over $100,000 per year each.
My bro in Ca. and his wife just bought a nice condo near Thousand Oaks. Not sure who much they paid for it but he said the bank was getting over $3,000 a month from them.
So if we use the old way of using just 1/4th your wages for a home then they need to be bringing in at least $12,000 per month. I know as a school teacher she makes bank, teachers are always crying about being underpaid but she has 35 years in and makes twice as much as my bro does.
Our mortage in S.Ca. in the mid 1980's was $995.00 per month with 1/3rd down and 10 1/2 fixed rate with the bank.
Bought the house for $145,000 and nw it is going fr at least a mil, they changed the zoning where it is located so the property went up with the new zip code.

I have regrets to sell my home in The Netherlands, I rented it out and in the end there was a weed grower (he left with a huge electrictiy bill as well as rent arrears). Looking at the past few years it would have been good to repair and sell at double the price (such is life but a bad experience)

Renting out is a risk, if not checked on a regular basis (lesson learnt)

Sold for EUR 200 K, I think now 400 K EUR
Looking back is tricky though.
Still some positive things, most important buying a property in Hungary (doubling in price over the last 6 years).
We still have enough capital to choose which is very good. Lets see how things will develop.

Health and hapiness are the most important, but a bit of cash helps with both. Selling our home in Hungary (financially) has been good.
Perhaps we will not suffer in Alanya. But more enjoy (still there is a lack of Indian and Chinese restaurants)

I keep you up to date.

cdw057 wrote:

I have regrets to sell my home in The Netherlands, I rented it out and in the end there was a weed grower (he left with a huge electrictiy bill as well as rent arrears). Looking at the past few years it would have been good to repair and sell at double the price (such is life but a bad experience)

Renting out is a risk, if not checked on a regular basis (lesson learnt)

Sold for EUR 200 K, I think now 400 K EUR
...

It's the same everywhere in developed countries.   

Housing costs in the UK are insane and now unaffordable.    Not worth looking back as it just causes pain and soul searching with "could have, should have" type analysis.

Property here I think has a good yield compared to other investments in-country.

When I first came here, I was offered a block of 4 flats for about 300K DEM (Deutsche marks).  I should have bought it!  There was also an desirable urban but substantial bit of land around the corner from my apartment - it was 1000m2 or something and on sale for about 20K EUR equivalent.

It's never worth the energy to look back on what if...
My husband came to HU in 1989 and his friend told him to take some of our savings and buy in Budapest.
Things were super cheap back then.
In 1989 I never really even considered visiting Hungary again let alone buying here.
My niece today was mentioning on what she would do with an extra $10,000 . She said her rent in SF is $18,000 for just 6 months!
$36,000 per year just to rent?

I bought a house in 2001 for £40k, 4 years later I sold it for double. That was in Blackpool.

My dad's 1st car cost him brand new £500 look at the prices now? Even the prices of houses are silly everywhere. It seems to be worse in more countries.

Here in Austria, I have put €200k in value with just 13 years living here. Salaries have not gone up that much. It's a part of life.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

It's never worth the energy to look back on what if...
My husband came to HU in 1989 and his friend told him to take some of our savings and buy in Budapest.
Things were super cheap back then.
In 1989 I never really even considered visiting Hungary again let alone buying here.
My niece today was mentioning on what she would do with an extra $10,000 . She said her rent in SF is $18,000 for just 6 months!
$36,000 per year just to rent?

That's outrageous amounts to pay to rent a house anywhere, never mind SF.

I see houses to rent here for that kind of money.

I always wonder who exactly has that kind of money just to rent - maybe only film stars here to make movies.

One phenomena  I've noticed recently on real estate web sites here in HU is this idea of "dressing  the room" to improve the chance of selling it.   This is quite normal elsewhere but I've only noticed it upticking here in the past couple of years.

Yes, $36,000 is a ton to pay for an apt.
2 bedroom in San Ramon, just outside of SF.
That is probably a good 1/3rd of her yearly salary.
Used to be your rent was only suppose to be 1/4th of your salary.
My neice is a widow raising her daughter alone too.
People are getting less bang for their buck for sure.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Yes, $36,000 is a ton to pay for an apt.
2 bedroom in San Ramon, just outside of SF.
That is probably a good 1/3rd of her yearly salary.
Used to be your rent was only suppose to be 1/4th of your salary.
My neice is a widow raising her daughter alone too.
People are getting less bang for their buck for sure.

I don't know those places but it used to be a borrowing requirement that a mortgage (or rent) monthly  would not be more than 1/3 of a monthly salary.  I think even that's changing now as people are over-extended.  I think they can have 1/2 now but really 1/3 should be an upper limit for affordability. 1/4 would be even better as you say.

A guy told me a while back that most people (anywhere) are never more than 2 paychecks away from bankruptcy or failing to pay their rent/mortgage.  If that's really true, it's really a dodgy position to be in.   

It sounds like it could be true but I guess it could also depend on who you are and what you do.

Never see a poor lawyer or accountant or plumber these days.

I don't know how some people are able to get on the property ladder these days in some places.

SimCityAT wrote:

I don't know how some people are able to get on the property ladder these days in some places.

Depends where you are perhaps. 

UK has bank of Mum and Dad and insane house price inflation and therefore borrowing potential.

Lots of wealth here in HU is inherited property but I never really hear here about anybody family selling their houses.  They seem to stay in them until they exit feet first.   

They do seem to acquire new houses and flats though which is a little odd.   Several HU relatives seem to have enough dosh to buy flats for their kids and houses down at Balaton.  I suppose it's all borrowings/mortgages.

Not a well known fact but those ,"poor people" in communist countries often sat on fortunes for several generations.
That money pit in the back yard was real for some.
There were many "black market" businesses in the day and people had really no where to stash the cash until now.
Of course not everoyne was "skirting the system" but many were.
If you were a party member of had a high up relation in the party then your apt. lucky enough would just happen to be located in the best part of town and sme of the rules about certain sizes of dwellings depending on how many lived there, were also forgotten.
I know my husband's family lived in the 5th but in literally one room.
It had been a tiny flat for my in-laws when they first married but the war came and after that they were lucky to have a place to live in that wasn't damaged.
5 people lived in a studio flat, well mostly just slept there after the children got older.
The could of gone on a list for a larger flat with s many peple in the family but they didn't want to be on the radar for any reason at all.
On the other hand my MIL's older brother who helped raise his 7 siblings after their father died was in the ,"party" but he was a true believer.
They moved him out of his flat kicking a screaming because the party wanted to fix it up for him.
He was so angry that they were wasting money on him that he gave back his party book! Doubt many were that into it like he was.
Even so, he had a big heart, in 1956 he knew some rebles were in the house, they came back to say good-bye to their parents before leaving the country.He just went indoors and never said a word about it.He could of caused trouble but he wasn't cruel like that.
Now one of our nieces owns that flat and makes a bit of extra cash from renting it out. She has a house with her long time boyfriend, lives with their 3 children there and has yet another house her father owned and is lined up to get her mom's house soon enough when ever she gives up the ghost. She never lifted a finger in her life for all those properties either. To think we used to mail them care packages...
Oh, take that back, for a short time she did the laundry of her uncle the pary member every few weeks and brought him lunch which he paid for every so often. She had a free lunch as well in more ways then one.
Nice gig if you can get it.
When we were looking to purchase this Budapest flat my husband made contact with his half sister. Hadn't seen her since she was 8 and he was 17 or 18 years old.
A nice Jewish lady who teaches chemsitry at one of the uni's in Budapest.
She was really nice and looked at a few flats with us to give us some advice. Had dinners and went to tea several times with her, it was nice while it lasted.
Out of the blue, she dropped us.
Couldn't figure out why but then put 2 and 2 together.
Their father owned half of a nice flat in the 5th near the Basillica.
He had recently passed away and probably her mom and sister got afraid that the long forgtten first children of his would want their part?
Who knows but greed is ugly.
Of course many , most people lost everything in the war but those who knew what was coming and planned for it now have grandchildren who are sittting pretty.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Not a well known fact but those ,"poor people" in communist countries often sat on fortunes for several generations.
That money pit in the back yard was real for some.
There were many "black market" businesses in the day and people had really no where to stash the cash until now.
Of course not everoyne was "skirting the system" but many were.
If you were a party member of had a high up relation in the party then your apt. lucky enough would just happen to be located in the best part of town and sme of the rules about certain sizes of dwellings depending on how many lived there, were also forgotten.
...
When we were looking to purchase this Budapest flat my husband made contact with his half sister. Hadn't seen her since she was 8 and he was 17 or 18 years old.
...
Of course many , most people lost everything in the war but those who knew what was coming and planned for it now have grandchildren who are sitting pretty.

There's been a similar thing going on with us with half-siblings over inheritance and it's all about land and houses. 

In the end there was trading of assets to make a clean break between the different siblings so that everyone got something they wanted of vaguely  similar value.   That worked out relatively OK but only because the parties were reasonable.  It's not like everyone were the best of friends.

But what amazes me is how little foresight grandparents had over their grandchildren.  In handing down property to them and not divvying it up properly or legally where one or more of the grandchildren being loopy weirdos, possibly even sociopaths, it ends up with an almighty mess of tangled ownership and bloody-mindedness. 

Some real bonkers stuff goes on that lasts for years.   We've found out that one house Mrs F has a share in  was divided illegally into two parts - what we call a semi-detached house in the UK. 

Someone put a fence up and made two property numbers out of it and this was entered in the land registry BUT according to the land registry now, this was illegal for that kind of house at the time (must be well over 50-60-70 years it's been that way).  No-one knew what was done to make it that way.  Might have been a brown envelope under the table.  It's a mystery.

Everyone was completely ignorant until the "neighbours" (on the other side of an invented dividing line) wanted to rebuild their half.  They were refused permission.  And it also means Mrs F's side cannot do it either (if they only could agree - too many owners due to grandparents genorosity).  Each side can only can build in 10% each (20% land restriction on built in area on total area).   It's certainly made things rather difficult for everyone - no-one can change anything.     

In my own land dispute, we were pretty sure the two old blokes who lived either side of the wrong property line shook hands and exchanged a couple of bottles of wine to "forget about it".   Oh no way!  British have a saying "our home is our castle".

My mom bought a house with her auntie before my mother got married.
Her auntie wasn't a fan of my father and thought the house would be in danger ( she probably was right) if my father ever got his hands on it.
She talked my mother into giving her the house fully in her name only but half would still belong to my mother.
My mom was naive to the ways of the world and didn't make it legal that she was to inherit half the house on her aunties death.
Well, the crazy old ln hung herself in the house.
The Salvation Army was listed as where she wanted the house to go.
She had a "spiritiual awakening" shortly before she did herself in so they got the whole house.
Obviously this auntie had some mental issues.
My mother wasn't even allowed to enter to collect family photos.
One reason I dn't give to chairty is because of that. Already gave at the office, so to speak...
My MIL made it legal when her half of her Erd house was divided up on her passing.
She went to a notary and had a contract written up.
My SIL already swindled the step-father to write his own son out and give her his half of the house.
She was gabbing for the other half and wanted to leave my husband and BIL out. MY MIL stepped in and put my husband in last min to get 50% of half a house. The BIL was ttlaly written out because he had been overly gabby in the past and took land that was meant to be partly given to my husband.
Because my husband lived in the US they just thought he was out and not part of the family for some reason.
MY MIL was determinded they didn't forget they had a younger brother no matter where he lived.
Our contract was legal but stated we had to suport my MIL every month until her death and part of the contract to write the bro out.
My husband told his bro he was ging to still give him something frm his small part if he took caring for their mother more serisuly. We had a hard time going to HU every year for 6 months to help her out and sending funds was easier for us instead of quitting jobs, moving into a storeage unit and tkaing care of a crazy ld lady whoo was stubborn and really didn't like me much.
Well the bro wnate dn paper exaclty hw much money we would give him to help care for his own mother.
We told him where to get off and just came every 6 months.
His wife was the real problem, she was behind all the greed.
Like how could we say how much the house was worth before we sold it? Their mother could of lived another decade or longer.
We have nothing to d with any of my husbands siblings here, a real shame but it's on them.
I now totally respect how my mother did things when she knew her time was short on earth.
She sld her house, paid off every bit of money she owed to anyone, any bank  or business. She wanted to leave without any soul ties to the world.
She put aside a bit of money for her and her husband to live on, a bit for him for when she was gone, he had his own SS and military pension .
The rest she had put into an iron clad bank note that was to be paid out in person to each of her 6 children in equal portions.
5 of us all went to the bank together to chack it.
The eldest sister was t have her funds mailed to her.
My smooth tlaking older sister told me that it meant so much to her if I trusted her word as she said to give her the money intended for the eldest and she would make sure she got it in full.
She told me I had done enough with the funeral ect and she felt she needed to do something nice to help out.
I loved that sister but dang, she talked a good game.
Much later I found out she had double dipped into the money, just shy a few thousand bucks but dang...
My eldst sister got over it but I felt like I had let her down but trusting the wrong person to ahndle things.
Family, you're stuck with them like it or not.
Our poor son has the choir of getting rid of 2 storage units upon our demisss unless we clean them out first.
I saw a funny and truthful meme  that had an old man and a middle aged man standing befre a garage full of junk. The old man said to the younger, his son, "Son, some day all of this will be yours". Hit home a bit to close to the bone.

On the selling of houses (in any case in our village), far too many, largely elderly women wanting to move to their children or mecause of mortgage issues. What is really sad is that some of them are so desperate that they sell their house for FAR FAR less then its value (sometimes pushed by banks, sometimes by time constraints). Really, really sad. I knew a women with a very nice house worth I would think EUR 200 K (with mortgage though) sold for 100 K (the mortgage of the same amount forced her to go to a 10 K shed).
Still houses are sold and people are buying, but the world is not honest (at all)

We got what we wanted (probably we could have gotten more, but that aside) and are now moving.

As mentioned I will keep you up to date.
A message for Orban, I really enjoyed living in Hungary, but it is really getting too expensive (part of being EU I imagine).

I really wish you the best on your move.
I also hope the medical system there is up to EU standards if you ever need to use them.
It's sad to say but as we age you really want to be able to access good medical  clinics.
One day your on top of the world and the next everything is not exactly as you planned.
Again, no fear, if it doens't work out in your new country you can always return to Hungary, no shame in moving back. Dang ,we moved 2 times to New Mexico and 2 times to Hawaii, sometimes it does take 3 times to be the charm.

I have to say as far as medical is concerned Hungary has been very good to me, having said that hospitals are soso as I understand. Turkey has a lot of young educated people (difficult to find a good GP younger then 70 in Hungary).

Indeed it will be more expensive, but loads of private hospitals against a good price, but indeed more expensive. Then again cigarettes (my drawback) are much much cheaper, being cynical, my savings on cigarettes will pay more then needed for health insurance.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Our poor son has the chore of getting rid of 2 storage units upon our demise unless we clean them out first.
I saw a funny and truthful meme  that had an old man and a middle aged man standing before a garage full of junk. The old man said to the younger, his son, "Son, some day all of this will be yours". Hit home a bit to close to the bone.

One person's junk is another person's treasure!

I've got my eye on a very old VW Beetle I can see in someone's garden on a walk I do.   Clearly it's looking abandoned within the grounds of an old run down house.  If it's not too rusty and I could get it out of there, I wouldn't mind it as a project.   I am sure Mrs F would like it in the garden (not).   In fact, I might take a walk there with the dog.  I could go the weekend and see if it's still there.   

If it is and we can get a look at it, I might leave a note in the post box telling them I'll move it for free.

I was thinking I could rebuild it for No. 1 Fluffyette as it's not too long before she's of driving age. Might be just silly day dreaming.

On the moving part, we intend to take only favourite items, we have however a sh*t load of DVDs and Dutch (but also English and German) books we want to get rid off, also a load of old money from various countries, coins and paper money alike (some of it worhtless, but also some valid)

Just let me know if interested.

cdw057 wrote:

On the moving part, we intend to take only favourite items, we have however a sh*t load of DVDs and Dutch (but also English and German) books we want to get rid off, also a load of old money from various countries, coins and paper money alike (some of it worhtless, but also some valid)

Just let me know if interested.

You can donate money in any currency to charities - they will take care of it. Collectors will also buy stuff like that on Ebay. BTW, Croatia joins the Euro soon so best to cash that in asap.

The DVDs you might be able to donate via a local forum.  Mrs F says there's one in my village but I've never seen it and nowhere near as organised as Freecycle (which has 50+ members in Budapest).

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