Moving to San Juan in September

Welcome on Expat.com chucknevers

I hope that other members will contribute to your various queries soon.

Best of luck with your move.

Regards

I am a Puerto Rican who has lived all of his life on the island and who has traveled very little. As a result my opinion is not very worldly and it is heavily biased but I'll try to make my answer as useful as possible.

1. Puerto Rico is very hot and humid, specially in the summer months. I was told in Mexico that Mexicali was the gate of hell but when I got there it was nice and cool in comparison to my little island. Summer in Philadelphia felt like a December on Puerto Rico and I wore jeans in Orlando in July without getting anywhere near a state of sweating. Your air conditioning unit will be your most valuable and beloved possession. But Condado is a tiny strip of land between two bodies of water so the ocean breezes and a good pair of shorts should make the heat bearable. And December to April is rather nice.

2. I don't know how it compares. All I can tell you is that the cultural scene is not as homogeneous as it looks on the surface. There are a few interesting subcultures worth exploring. You'll find everything between stereotypical tropical music dancing types to Village-like artsy hipsters.

3. I don't know how it compares to Manhatan or Boston, but crime tends to be very specific. Most violent crime is drug gang related or the result of domestic violence. So, if you stay out of the drug trade and don't get a hick boyfriend you should be safe from physical harm. Bars and gates are there to prevent your stuff from getting stolen and this happens more than I'd like to admit. But it is mostly petty theft and it happens in some areas more than in others. For example, in the small town where I grew up I woke up to see the garden hose missing on more than one occasion. But walking around in the Condado area is actually pretty safe. I've never felt threatened and I am white enough to be confused by a tanned tourist by some people.

4. Cops will ask you for your license and registration and not for your wallet. (Politicians might ask you for your wallet but that's another issue). If cops knock on your door it will be because of noise complaints instead of to ask you for protection money. Some police brutality exists just like everywhere else but except for a few rare instances most reports are exaggerated. I've never had any problems with cops and they've always been friendly to me but I look pretty plain and harmless so my experiences might not be universal.

5. San Juan is not as welcoming to gays as San Francisco, but I've been told that it is more accepting of gays than the rest of Latin America. Condado, Isla Verde and Ocean Park are gay friendly and the gay community there is quite open. One of the two main annual gay parades is in Condado, and the other one is in Boquerón to the southwest of the island. I've had a few gay friends and acquaintances and the discrimination that I've seen against them has been rare. But I've never been gay so I can't give you a good account of the kind of discrimination that they've experienced through their lives on the island. And I know that there is discrimination, specially in the smaller and more secluded towns of the island. Older people also tend to be more homophobic. There are a few religious nuts and a segment of the population that is quite ignorant and "machista", and while they're influential in some areas like voting they're nowhere near as annoying as the likes of Fred Phelps and his family.

6. There are some Puerto Ricans that don't like gringos and they're quite vocal about it. But their numbers are very low. Less than 3% of the voters voted for Puerto Rican independence in the last referendum. The remaining 97% wants some sort of relationship with the USA in one form or another. Many Puerto Ricans are warm and welcoming and will go out of their way to help you but others are shy to the point of appearing xenophobic. I've never heard anyone yell Yankee go home to an expat or a tourist except for a few federal aid receiving Che Guevara beefy-t wearing socialist college students.

English proficiency varies greatly from one person to another. For example, I consider myself to be mostly fluent in English but my brother speaks very little of the language. The largest culture shock that you will experience will be the relaxed attitude towards littering, strays, and graffiti. Some of us work hard against this but it is an uphill battle. And traffic is fun in the 80 miles per hour deadly bumper cars in the highway kind of fun. (Not very fun at all)

Feel free to ask me any more questions. I'll try to answer them as best as I can.

@adolfojp: nice contribution

This is very thoughtful and helpful, and confirms many of my observations when visiting.  Thank you for taking the time to comment.  I believe Puerto Rico may be adding a new resident...

Best of luck Chuck. I hope you do well. I lived in New Hampshire for a number of years so I know the cold you have to deal with. Let us know how you are doing after your are there. I'll be moving to the west coast of PR very shortly. Can't Wait!

Gregg

There is a decidedly anti-gringo attitude here. I disagree with the earlier commend about 3%. I would say is closer to 60 0r 70% despite how they vote. This is a culture of cliques, and if you aren't from the neighborhut or island, then you are never going to get fair treatment, period.

There are nice cars, restaurants, some excellent doctors, and concerts. But if you expect some kind of happiness here as far as neighbors and civility, you *will* be disappointed. Why waste your retirment in PR when you could live in Florida??????? That's where I now live after having wasted a decade in Puerto Rico... the worst place i ever lived in my entire globe-traveling life.

I appreciate all of the comments, even the negative ones.  I understand Bosch's perspective, but being an attorney in the First Circuit (which includes Puerto Rico) puts me in a different position (not better, not worse, just different).  It was actually helpful to hear his comments.  They seem based on a series of unfortunate personal incidents.  Which means that I have yet to hear the real negatives....I'm putting a lot of thought into this as it is a pretty significant change so kvetching is welcome.

So......

I am looking at Isla Verde in addition to Condado.  I am an urban spirit.  I don't own a car, and prefer not to.  Is Isla Verde too far removed from the action (resataurants, clubs, shops, etc)?  What are the advantages/disadvantages to Isla Verde v. Condado?

What streets demarcate the "safer" areas which include Condado, (Ocean Park?) and Isla Verde?  Living in an urban area, I know that a street will often mean the difference between safety and compromise.  I already know about the housing project which separates Ocean Park from Isla Verde.

If I hesitate to own a car, are there food stores, appliance stores, etc in this area?

The dialogue is excellent, thanks again.

Isla Verde is the last to the east of the touristy coastal areas of the metropolitan area. Its coast is lined with hotels and condos and you can find many night clubs, restaurants, spas, a Walgreens, and a supermarket right there on its main avenue. Isla Verde is not known for its shopping but it has a few boutiques, and since Puerto Rico is a small island you could always go to a mall nearby. Regulated tourist cabs and the AMA buses drive through that area so moving around the metropolitan area shouldn't be too much of a problem.

And if the above paragraph reads like something from a brochure it is because it kind of is. I don't have many personal accounts to give you of the place. I will instead focus this post on why I haven't spend a lot of time on Isla Verde and then diverge tangentially on the culture and amenities of the places that surround it.

I sometimes visit Old San Juan and Condado just to walk around the place. You can do the same in Ocean Park, but to a lesser extent. Those places are welcoming to those who want to look for a place to eat or drink, meet old friends, make some new ones, rest your legs on a bench at an oceanfront plaza, etc. I've never done this on Isla Verde. I've only been to Isla Verde to visit some restaurants and music events and then drive away. I was born into a lower middle class family in a small town and the wall of condos and hotels appear uninviting to me. Exclusive night clubs like Brava, that cater to the young and rich with $100 bottles of vodka and $1200 VIP tables are also effective at keeping me at arms length.

Of course, all of my reasons for not loving Isla Verde are purely personal and a result of my particular upbringing and experiences. And I might be missing out on a wonderful place because of my inability to breach its intimidating core. I tend to be more prejudicial than I like to admit. The only way to know if Isla Verde is for you is to spend a few days around there.

The most interesting quirk about Isla Verde is that it is a bubble inside of Carolina. Carolina is colloquially known as Cacolina for its abundance of Cacos. Cacos are the members of the subculture that was born when the children of the Nuyoricans from the Bronx and Spanish Harlem moved to the island bringing with them their ghetto culture. Their idea of an ideal Puerto Rican looks and sounds something like this.

To the east of Isla Verde you have Piñones in Loiza. Loiza has the largest black population in the island and has traditionally been ignored by the government when assigning funds for development. The difference in development between Isla Verde and Piñones is quite dramatic, even if they're almost next to each other. The food is great, the people are friendly, and the beaches are quite nice, even if some of the roads that get to them are lined with garbage. (Littering is a big problem in the island.) I've never experienced problems in Piñones, but most people will tell you that if you want to go there at night you should bring a local with you until you develop a sense of what is safe in the island and what is not.

I can't really tell you which streets are safe and which ones are not. There are some areas that are known for being unsafe, like La Perla in Old San Juan and most public housing projects, but outside of that there are no places that are explicitly forbidden.  Try to follow your instincts just like you would in the USA. And until you learn to smell trouble in the island try to stay safe by being overly cautious even if that means missing out on some fun by being prejudicial.

You mention not wanting to own a car. You won't need a car to travel in the metropolitan area. The buses are pretty much reliable but they don't follow a rigid schedule and there are cabs that are reasonably affordable. Traffic congestion is overwhelming so you will have to get used to waiting. On the other hand, traveling to the rest of the island without a car will be quite painful. There are some routes that have buses but others don't. I took a public bus to my high school every day without a problem in the 90s. I knew a pair of young expat women who traveled by bus from Mayaguez to the beaches of Cabo Rojo a least once a week without any problems. My nephew, however, got stranded in Caguas one day when he learned that the bus that drove to Humacao wasn't making regular trips those days. My parents ended up buying him a used Toyota for 5K so that he could continue going to college. And public transportation outside of the metropolitan area doesn't work nights. I pay less than $200 a year for liability insurance, permits, etc. It is a very low price to pay for freedom of mobility in the island. And your apartment will most likely include a free parking spot or two. Being carless in the metropolitan area is OK. Outside of it not so much.

Thank you for the excellent input.  I must say (after googling it) that I am a little long in the tooth for a place like Club Brava!  I'll settle with a nice merlot and some Judy or Sondheim (or La LUPE!)

I gave notice to my firm today, one step closer to becoming "boricua".

I just moved here in February from the East Village, NYC, first staying with a friend in Ponce in the south, then taking an apt in a working class neighborhood in San Juan. While I'm only a 15 minute walk to the beach and a shopping center with a good supermarket (I prefer to be car-less also), there are little neighborhood markets nearby. I've been to Condado which was nice, but I was very disappointed in an expensive restaurant some friends and I went to (and one of whom lives there). The food was mediocre at best, the service was horrible, and the price was ridiculous. This has been my biggest frustration. Unless you go to a Sam's or Walmart superstore, the food choices are very limited - the basics like a decent loaf of real wheat bread or a decent variety of cheese, or many kinds of vegetables are not to be found. The local fare is "how many starches can you get on a plate heaped with how many pounds of meat and how many times do you want that fried?" I love to cook, but can't find ingredients and have started looking online.
My Spanish is sketchy at best, but even in a working class neighborhood, everyone has been quite friendly and helpful. I sit outside and read a lot and most of the neighbors at least have a smile.
I've used the bus system to get to places farther out and it's usually crowded, but worth the .75.
The weather is fine to me. There's usually a breeze. I have an AC in the bedroom, but prefer a fan so far, plus it keeps mosquitoes at bay. I think it's better than NYC summers with the heat coming at you from every direction not to mention the winters.
I've only been to Old San Juan once, but it was on a weekend with a cruise ship in port and I wasn't crazy about the scene, but I'm sure with more exploring better places are around.
I'm also in my 40's and moved here alone, so I'm still finding my way. I think it's a lovely place to live with much to offer, but like anyplace, it has certain drawbacks we overcome or deal with. You sound like you're in a good place financially which will also help quite a bit.

Hi nycjules

Who would have guessed that a poor and tiny island in the Caribbean wouldn't have the same food diversity as one of the largest and most cosmopolitan cities in the world? :-P Joke aside, I feel your pain. Food variety is are actually quite good these days compared to just a few years ago. A few years ago you couldn't find a beer that wasn't an American style pale lager and the vegetable isle consisted of 50 feet of iceberg lettuce. Some supermarkets are better stocked than others.

Your description of our aversion to vegetables, our proclivity towards starches and fats, the slowness of our service, and the expensiveness of Condado is very accurate. And keep in mind that meats will be served a few steps beyond well done unless you are very specific with your waiter. I blame mistranslations and a lack of local traditional steak culture.

Where do you live? I might be able to tell you about some cheap and "healthier" food alternatives. Here is a sample of a few places that you might like. Most of these places have websites, facebook pages, etc.

Abracadabra in Santurce

The good: Very cheap. Creative sandwiches, paninis, wraps, breakfast food, vegetarian alternatives, etc. Nice comfortable environment. Artsy.

The bad: Overpriced beer. Overcooked burgers by default unless specified otherwise. MIMES!!! (The Marcel Marceau kind, not the kind that bite your legs at the beach at night).

Pinky's in Condado, previously in Santurce, previously in Ocean Park...

The good: Like Abracadabra but more surf and less drama club.

The bad: Not enough tables.

La B de Burro in Ocean Park

The good: Trendy Mexican place. Doesn't taste like every other Mexican place on the island. The owner is... interesting... to day the least.

The bad: Not enough tables.

St. Germain in Old San Juan.

The good: Some of the best salads and Sunday brunch that you will find.

The bad: Crowded. The most expensive place on the list.

The list could go on. Let me know if you want more or more specific recommendations.

What was the name of the bad restaurant in Condado that you went to? I am genuinely curious.

And I am happy to know that you're having a good time on the island. I can only hope that the drawbacks don't become unbearable. They sometimes seem too much to me, and I am a local.

---

Good to hear that chucknevers! If you rescue a stray when you come down here we'll make you a honorary Boricua certificate and everything. ;-)

Isla Verde would be fine without a car if you never wanted to go anywhere else, never had to visit the doctor or a government agency. You could walk to the shops, etc. But the bus service is absolutely terrible (be prepared to wait over an hour for your bus on a regular basis) and the taxisistas will absolutely gouge you. If you want to live without a car, your only real option is Old San Juan.

NomadLawyer, I don't understand your reasoning.

You say that the only option for living without a car is OSJ because of its proximity to doctors and government offices. And yet, the only complete hospital in the area is in Condado, not OSJ. And visiting government offices is not a daily or an emergency ritual so an occasional bus ride, even if you have to wait a while for it should not be a problem. A lot of people that I know take the bus, including my SO. She takes the bus to work from Bayamón to OSJ every day. She owns a car, but taking the bus is actually more convenient for her. And she is a little 5'1" 25 year old white girl.

"The local fare is "how many starches can you get on a plate heaped with how many pounds of meat and how many times do you want that fried?"

LOL, yup that's what I've discovered both on the island and here in the PR neighborhoods.  I lived in San Jose for a while, I like centroamerica food with beans and rice, was disappointed to discover that PR cuisine is vastly different than Costa Rica or Nicaragua.  But if that's the biggest downside, well, I think I can manage. 

BTW, I found a lovely restaurant in Viejo called Baru.  It's been several months since I was there last, but our dinner was unique (eclectic re-interpretations of certain native dishes).  My experience was good there.

It's true that the average Puerto Rican diet leaves a bit to be desired when you are looking for a balanced meal or are counting calories. But I see some of that starting to change. I know a young chef in Cabo Rojo who makes his living making and delivering daily lunches for up to 80 orders. He posts his menu the day before to take orders and his menu is decidedly Puerto Rican but very diverse and a lot healthier than most restaurants. I don't know much about the rest of the island but there is a definite movement afoot on the western side to create meals that are healthier for you and to get people to eat more vegetables. There is a solid organic growers group that is getting attention also. Farmers markets are becoming more popular all over the island.  Local cuisine is what you make it. You can eat healthy and still have a solid Puerto Rican diet. And don't forget the abundance of fish. You can never go wrong there. Gotta go, I'm getting hungry.

Gregg

adolpho, hahaha! i knew i'd have some adjustments to make gatronomically, just have to learn to deal with them on a daily basis! i'd have to ask about the name of the restaurant, but it was on the main street and pretty full, so i wondered if the standards were just different and i need to adjust there also. thanks for the suggestions. my cable bill has the area listed a villa palmeras which i think is near santurce. i'm on a tight budget for now and have discovered the best food in small fishing towns -langostino empanadas. i'm also wanting find ingredients to keep at home or to start making some things to have on hand. i found out that amazon has a food section, so i may go with that instead of buying the huge quantities you get at a Sam's which i can't get to now anyway.
as far as exploring other areas, i was hoping some of the tours might have lower prices in the summer. i had some good tours of the south, but most were briefer than i'd like. any info there would be helpful. i'm reading many blogs, but not finding specific, daily living kindof advice, so i'll keep googling and exploring on my own. thanks for your take on things!

Good points regarding my post, adolfojp. I still would strongly disuade anyone without a car from living in Isla Verde unless they have so much money that they don't mind getting ripped-off by the taxi drivers.  I hate running errands and shopping (I avoid both like the plague) so perhaps my examples of why someone would need to leave Isla Verde to get things done were not the most precise, but I was thinking of such errands cumulatively and my conclusion remains the same: Don't live in Isla Verde without a car.

Let's address the bus system ("La AMA").  La AMA's main (and only, I believe) bus terminal is located in OSJ, so someone without a car would have many route options available. In contrast, La AMA only runs two routes through Isla Verde, which I'll address in detail below. In addition, the main terminal has a shuttle that runs to the first stop of the Tren Urbano, so someone without a car could take advantage of the Tren for many errands to Hato Rey, Cupey, Guaynabo, etc. Also, OSJ has a supermarket, bookstores, a post office and clothing stores (even a Marshall's for cheaper options); Isla Verde has two supermarkets, the half-way point between them being too far to walk to either one.  The post office is located at the far eastern border of Isla Verde so it is too far to walk to unless you live right nearby.  It also only accepts cash for some idiotic reason.  (Isla Verde does have a 24 hour Walgreens and its many restaurants are within walking distance no matter where along Avenida Isla Verde you may live.)

La AMA and Isla Verde
As mentioned above, Isla Verde is served by two bus routes, the 5 and the 53. They overlap for about 40% of their routes. AMA assigns one bus for each of these routes. It takes approximately two hours for one of these buses to do a complete route, not including breakdowns, the occasional hellish traffic jam ('hellish' as in not moving whatsoever), and the slack-time between the end of one driver's shift and the beginning of another (which I have observed as often comprising up to 30 minutes but usually is about 15). The 5 regularly reaches max-capacity so you will have to stand the 45 minutes to an hour that it will take you to get from Isla Verde to OSJ.

With a two hour loop and perfectly spaced-out bus run-times, your average wait-time for the bus would be one hour. However, the buses for each route often run one right behind the other, so your wait-time could easily be one hour and thirty minutes or more (as experience has shown it often is). There is no schedule to rely on and the tourist pamphlets that say the bus comes every 20 minutes are a cruel joke on the visitors who put any faith in them. 98% of the people who ride the bus in Isla Verde are either Dominican immigrants who cannot afford to own cars, hardworking but humble residents of the biggest projects in the Caribbean (Llorens Torres), or gringos who didn't know any better before they arrived. 

Anyone and everyone who I have ever spoken to or overheard speaking absolutely loath La AMA's service in Isla Verde. After all, even 45 minutes of waiting is a long time if you have an appointment, if the sun is unbearably intense, if it is raining, or if you need to arrive at your destination not covered in sweat or soaking wet.

The dirt-poor, chaotic bus systems of the rest of Latin America are much quicker and usually have many more options, although the individual buses rarely have AC. Nonetheless, taking La AMA is safe and usually more comfortable than its Latin American counterparts. 

Thankfully, I have a car.  I would gladly use the bus exclusively, but for the reasons described herein it just isn't practical.

Out of curiousity, do they have an equivalent to Peapod in San Juan?  That's a service with Stop n Shop that delivers your groceries after you order them online. It's a marvelous invention, I haven't been inside a grocery store in ages.   I'll need to re-adjust some of my habits in San Juan, I fear.

That's an understatement:)

Hey Chuck,

You've gotten quite a bit of good feedback. I have a couple additional observations to add.

chucknevers wrote:

1) Is San Juan bearable in July and August?

I lived most of my life in DC and Chicago, both (former?) swamps. It's hot here, but with even the interior awash in sea winds, you DON'T get the 99.9% humidity you get in those cities.

chucknevers wrote:

2) I'm a stuffy New Englander.  How does the cultural scene in San Juan compare to New York and Boston?

Simply put, it doesn't -- the comments regarding Island & food variety apply here as well. You may need to adjust tastes/expectations. Or better yet pick up cuatro and become a participant -- the Island is much more appreciative of amateur creativity than the US. I've found it positively liberating.

chucknevers wrote:

6) What are the negatives in terms of the attitudes?  Is there an anti-gringo veneer, is there an overlay of disrespect for property rights, are people generally more trusting than suspicious (or vice versa)?

You know, this is not an easy question to answer, because Puerto Rico is a poly-cultural and multi-segmented society. In general people here are cheerful (PR ranks near top in international happiness rankings) and expressive. In my eighteen months here, I've only had a couple experiences I could call negative, but even there I would have to allow the people involved were probably more frustrated by my poor professional Spanish. I mean, there are a few inconsiderate and rude people here, too, but they're a world-wide phenonemon.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your life change!
--Michael

just found this site in my search and think it's very informative. just thought it might be of help to you and others here. congrats on giving notice!

enciclopediapr.org/ing/

I would only add that I live in PR for the last 9 years, and I live in Boston for 8 of my 46 years. You know those 3-4 days in late summer in Boston that the heat is unbearable? Well, it never ever gets that hot here in Puerto Rico. Groceries here compare favorably to stop-n-go, as we used to call it.

Boston is a great, great city. In many respects, San Juan is not up to par. Yet people hear are definitely friendlier than in Beantown.

You'll miss the fall, I do; and I actually love it here.

PR doesn't have a Provincetown, yet by most accounts gays are left to their own devices here. There have been occurrences of violence to gays, I cannot minimize it. Yet, domestic violence is way more prevalent, it is kind of a macho place, but other than Uruguay and Argentina, is hard to find a Hispanic country more hospitable to gays.

I say this because Ive work in the hospitality business and patrons routinely asked about gay friendliness.

I see you've already gotten plenty of feedback, but as a fellow New Englander, I might have some insight as to the differences.

1. In the beginning, you will find the weather to be unbearable. When I moved to Puerto Rico, I took three cold showers a day and would have spent my day in a pool if I could of. Unlike New England weather, the pattern here is pretty stable, so once you get accustomed, it's not terrible. The winter months are always a bit cooler, but the variation in average temps throughout the year might be 20 degrees (mid 70s to mid 90s).

2. When I first moved here from Rhode Island, I felt really uncomfortable with the people. Don't expect people to stand at arm's length when speaking and be prepared for physical contact when waiting in line (people stand that close).People treat Americans very well because they want visitors to have a good impression of the island. I disagree with the statement that there is an anti-american sentiment. Be prepared for people to strike conversations just about anywhere, including public restrooms.

Although people are very nice at an interpersonal level. You will see there is a lot of rudeness in the driving and customer service is not always very good. (Again, Americans usually get better treatment).

I would say that crime shouldn't be an issue in those areas. The only advise I would give you is to learn if there are any specific areas within those communities that you should avoid. Sometimes a bad neighborhood can be just a few blocks away. I've lived here for 10 yrs and haven't been the victim of a crime.

Puerto Rico is no P-town, but it's also not like the conservative south. Ocean Park specifically is very gay friendly and there is a lot of gay tourism in PR.

People here are very trusting in general and always willing to lend a helping hand. Especially neighbors and friends. It's not the same independent "fend for yourself" attitude that prevails in the states. In that respect, it is very nice.

Where in Rhode Island are you from? I graduated high school in No. Kingstown.

Gregg