Salaries in Germany

I have an offer with 60K per annum from a software company, Berlin . Is it a good salary for 8+ years experienced Java developer?

The averagre household income is approx. €30000/year..

Hi Everyone!

I am Vinay, a Linux Systems Administrator with ~4 years of experience from India looking to relocate to Munich for a possible job and would greatly appreciate feedback on my below queries from each one of you.

Recently, I've been interacting with a company for the role of a DevOps Engineer in Munich wherein I was asked to share my salary expectations.

What I've done
After some research, I found their range for this role to be €55.000 – €75.000 via a startup job-portal Angelist while their Glassdoor did not have any salaries as such. I'm tempted to quote that range but I'd rather not be turned down at this stage itself.

I also co-related this data with a site that recommends your ideal salary for a particular profession. As per its result, I'm eligible to earn between €56.285 - €91.737

I've also done some cost of living calculations via Numbeo but as there's a huge disparity between Mumbai, India (where I currently live) and Munich, they seem approximate than accurate, thus adding to my confusion.

The confusion?
Since I was unable to determine how much should I be paid and require to revert, I assume specifying even a slightly higher range would end any chances of me landing an interview, leave alone the job.

Kindly note: If I were to relocate to Munich, I'd be a single person with a modest lifestyle involving rent, utilities, groceries, transportation to & from work around the city and the occasional dining out and other leisure activities and wish to have substantial monthly savings.

On that note, what range would be suitable to quote? That is their range €55.000 – €75.000 OR something lower, such as €50.000 - €60.000?

Please let me know if any other information is needed.

Kind Regards,
Vinay Hegde

Throught your own research, you got as good an idea of your market value as you possibly can.  Where in the remaining range you’ll be placed depends on factors beyond any salary survey or this forum: How desperate are you for the job, how urgently does the company need tou? How well do your skills fit the job’s requirement and how many similar people exist within the EU? How good are your German language skills? Which industry does the employer serve? And how good are your negotiation skills?
If this is your first job in Germany, you need company sponsorship for the visa, and your German is not fluent, i would suggest to ask for the lower range of what you found out. It will in any case be sufficient for a single person in Munich.
How much you will save depends largely on your lifestyle choices - it is easy to spend all, even at the highest number you found. Since there was a recent poster who didn’t believe us this: It is entirely unrealistic to expect to save half of your income or anywhere near. Aim for €1000/month (after the initial months with necessarily higher expenses) and realize that you will spend some or all of this on home trips or sightseeing in Europe!

Hi Beppi,

Thank you so much for taking time to respond!

The points you've stated are very accurate - I understand the actual range I maybe offered will be beyond any salary survey or this forum. Allow me to answer your questions to the best possible extent.

How desperate are you for the job, how urgently does the company need tou?

I'm eager to work with them rather than desperate and I'd understand their urgency if I  were to get an interview with that company. But as said previously, getting any chance depends on my answer to their question of salary expectations.

How well do your skills fit the job’s requirement and how many similar people exist within the EU?

Since I was approached by them and not vice-versa, I hope my skills fit their description fairly well. Also, I believe the EU would have a good pool of such people given that it's a booming sector but it's something I'd exclude as it's beyond my reach.

How good are your German language skills? Which industry does the employer serve? And how good are your negotiation skills?

My German language skills (read, write, converse) are elementary level but since it's an IT company with a culturally diverse team, their working language is English so I think German wouldn't be a stumbling block. Negotiation is tricky given that it's an entirely different country thus leading to my query here.

If this is your first job in Germany, you need company sponsorship for the visa, and your German is not fluent, i would suggest to ask for the lower range of what you found out.

Yes it'd be so and from their job description page, it appears they do provide sponsorship.

How much you will save depends largely on your lifestyle choices - it is easy to spend all, even at the highest number you found.

I agree any amount of money can be insufficient if not used wisely and therefore I'm cautious with my lifestyle choices.

Since there was a recent poster who didn’t believe us this: It is entirely unrealistic to expect to save half of your income or anywhere near. Aim for €1000/month (after the initial months with necessarily higher expenses) and realize that you will spend some or all of this on home trips or sightseeing in Europe!

This is absolutely spot-on as you've said everything needed. I was looking to save around €1000/month (give or take)

Hoping those answers gave you a clearer picture and I'd be really much appreciative if you could please help me quote the range now.

Please reach me via a direct message or an email - *** should you require any more information.

Have a nice day :)

Moderated by Bhavna 10 months ago
Reason : Contact details should not be posted on the forum but rather exchanged through the private messaging system. Thank you
We invite you to read the forum code of conduct
vinayhegde1990 :

Hi Beppi,

Thank you so much for taking time to respond!

The points you've stated are very accurate - I understand the actual range I maybe offered will be beyond any salary survey or this forum. Allow me to answer your questions to the best possible extent.

How desperate are you for the job, how urgently does the company need tou?

I'm eager to work with them rather than desperate and I'd understand their urgency if I  were to get an interview with that company. But as said previously, getting any chance depends on my answer to their question of salary expectations.

How well do your skills fit the job’s requirement and how many similar people exist within the EU?

Since I was approached by them and not vice-versa, I hope my skills fit their description fairly well. Also, I believe the EU would have a good pool of such people given that it's a booming sector but it's something I'd exclude as it's beyond my reach.

How good are your German language skills? Which industry does the employer serve? And how good are your negotiation skills?

My German language skills (read, write, converse) are elementary level but since it's an IT company with a culturally diverse team, their working language is English so I think German wouldn't be a stumbling block. Negotiation is tricky given that it's an entirely different country thus leading to my query here.

If this is your first job in Germany, you need company sponsorship for the visa, and your German is not fluent, i would suggest to ask for the lower range of what you found out.

Yes it'd be so and from their job description page, it appears they do provide sponsorship.

How much you will save depends largely on your lifestyle choices - it is easy to spend all, even at the highest number you found.

I agree any amount of money can be insufficient if not used wisely and therefore I'm cautious with my lifestyle choices.

Since there was a recent poster who didn’t believe us this: It is entirely unrealistic to expect to save half of your income or anywhere near. Aim for €1000/month (after the initial months with necessarily higher expenses) and realize that you will spend some or all of this on home trips or sightseeing in Europe!

This is absolutely spot-on as you've said everything needed. I was looking to save around €1000/month (give or take)

Hoping those answers gave you a clearer picture and I'd be really much appreciative if you could please help me quote the range now.

Please reach me via a direct message or an email ********** should you require any more information.

Have a nice day :)

Please do not publish personal detail on the open forum, this is for your own safety.

Thanks for the helpful suggestion @SimCityAT, I didn't realize it.

Vinay: Your post has been made invisible by the moderators, probably due to the personal contact details therein and hopefully only temporarily). But since SimCity quoted it in full (minus the offending details), I can reply to it nevertheless.
it seems you have done all your homework and found a very good opportunity here.
However, it is unusual (though not unheard of) for a German employer to ask for salary expectations before the first interview.
Since it is always a wise move to get the other negotiation party to tell the first price, this is what I answered in similar situations (but different countries):
"Unfortunately I am not yet familiar enough with the German ... (insert your industry here) pay structure to make a meaningful suggestion. But since I am committed to move to Germany and would very much like to contribute to your company's success as a ... (your job title here), I am sure we will find an agreement along your budget and expectations."
If they do not accept this, or reply in a negative way, it is probably a cheapskate employer you don't want to work for anyway.
Note: It is not acceptable (from a German viewpoint) to put financial considerations high on the agenda - and neither should you (ever) make the impression that you are mainly doing it for the money!

Hi Beppi,

Thank you very very much for that response!

Yes, I unintentionally put my email address without realizing that sharing personal details was detrimental.

Just FYI: This was about to be my reply

========================
Hi (Recruiter Name),

Good Morning! I hope all is well.

Thank you very much for the response to my job application and sharing the programming test along with information about your hiring process, cost of living in Munich as well.

I'm more excited in making valuable contributions as part of your team in the role of a (job title) at (company name). In all my experience and research, €xK - €yK seems to be market compensation for roles similar to this.

Meanwhile please do not hesitate to contact me should you require any additional information.

Again, thank you for considering me for this role and giving me the opportunity of working on the test. I look forward to hearing from you soon!

Have a nice day :)
================================

I believe I can tweak your answer to my scenario but I've a few quick questions,

Q1. Won't it lead to the impression that a person didn't check up on salary information that's possibly available online?

Q2. OR is the idea behind using a variant of your answer to coax them into revealing their salary range first? ;-)

Again, thanks for helping me out so far. Have a nice day!

Q1: This impression might arise in other cultures, but not really in Germany, where talking about salary is a social taboo (even among colleagues and friends) and comparative salary surveys are rare and hard to find.
Q2: Yes, that is the idea.
It is hard to dispute that a German HR professional knows better than a foreign applicant what range is appropriate for the position.

Yes you're right!

Q1: Indeed, apart from a solitary listing on Angel.co, I wasn't able to find any salary listings for that role in that company or any comparative ones either.

Q2: It was a very good idea and I tried it only to be rejected on a flimsy excuse that I didn't score well in some test of theirs (which they themselves had earlier emphasized was just a medium and not the decider of my candidacy)

Apparently, this was a good intuition on your part

If they do not accept this, or reply in a negative way, it is probably a cheapskate employer you don't want to work for anyway.

The good thing is I learnt that even in other countries (atleast Germany, apart from India) you can always coax the recruiters to spill their budget 1st

Thanks for all your suggestions so far :)

Q2: It was a very good idea and I tried it only to be rejected on a flimsy excuse that I didn't score well in some test of theirs (which they themselves had earlier emphasized was just a medium and not the decider of my candidacy)

I think you were misunderstanding the relevance of such a test. They would not give one if it had no meaning! So doing poorly is NOT a flimsy excuse. An employer will base their decision to hire on a number of criteria. One has to impress in all fields and one failure can mean rejection. The way to interpret such expectations is that doing poorly on such a test means failure but even getting 100% on the test doesn't mean you’ll get the job - if you don't match their expectations in other ways. Some people might have wishful thinking and expect that doing well on a test will virtually automatically mean they get a job. False. Their statement clarifies that it depends more than on just the test - and certainly gives no justification to think that the test is unimportant.

28-35% depends of which work you doing and other factors also

i agree with you. many factors comes into play..these factors such as coast of living eventually determines the pay

I'v been living in Germany for 1 year now and currently earn 2900.
After deductions I have 1884 leftover. ( I am 37)

My accommodation is 800 , and petrol 250 every month . Insurance alone is 100 euro because they state I have no European driving experience . Luckily I have a German Passport .

But after all the other deductions (without going out or eating out) I am left with 200 - 280 euros depending . ( Tv licenc , food , heating car tax so on all adds up)

When your needs a service or goes for the TUV , there is nothing left.

Unfortunately my work is 70km one way and there is no affordable accommodation in the area.......

I was thinking of studying to become a Machinebautechniker . But financing that for 2-3 years would make me broker than boke. (My papers are not recognized yet or may not be)

If you work isn't far away the salary would be enough. Unfortunately .

Still pondering if I should take the risk and study / Learn something for the sake of having the papers or not? Any advice ? I am a Mechanical Draftman / 3D CAD designer

You earn more than the average German family (of three people) and you are single. If you cannot manage, you should control your lifestyle. Especially the car expenses seem excessive to me.
On the other hand, mechanical designers are in high demand, so if you are good I am sure you can find a job nearer to your home.

beppi :

You earn more than the average German family (of three people) and you are single. If you cannot manage, you should control your lifestyle. Especially the car expenses seem excessive to me.
On the other hand, mechanical designers are in high demand, so if you are good I am sure you can find a job nearer to your home.

Thank you for replying . Indeed the car expenses are excessive. I travel minimum of 700km a week just for work.

I have applied for many jobs near home and in other cities. Unfortunately no luck due to majority want a German Ausbildung . As long as my papers are not recognized they dont seem to care if you say you good, they want it on paper. I am in the process of getting my papers recognized and most probably have to do a External exam in German. So I'd need to improve my German from B1 to C1 . ( Language courses are around 280 per month minimum)

Insurance is 100 a month . I cant find cheaper. I start at 100% . Things like car services are normal and changing breaks all round, but for 3 months I have nothing left due to the car. In a perfect situation I'd sell my car and ride to work.

Unfortunately where my work there seems to be a lack of affordable accommodations. Available unit start at 800 cold.

Ingolstadt is just as expensive and most accommodation is out of my reach. I was told about baugenossenschaft which sounds like the best option .

Currently I think my best option is to somehow redo everything again and do a German Ausbildung if possible at my age.

Thank you again for your reply. Much appreciated

w_kamper :

I'v been living in Germany for 1 year now and currently earn 2900.
After deductions I have 1884 leftover. ( I am 37)

My accommodation is 800 , and petrol 250 every month . Insurance alone is 100 euro because they state I have no European driving experience . Luckily I have a German Passport .

But after all the other deductions (without going out or eating out) I am left with 200 - 280 euros depending . ( Tv licenc , food , heating car tax so on all adds up)

When your needs a service or goes for the TUV , there is nothing left.

Unfortunately my work is 70km one way and there is no affordable accommodation in the area.......

I was thinking of studying to become a Machinebautechniker . But financing that for 2-3 years would make me broker than boke. (My papers are not recognized yet or may not be)

If you work isn't far away the salary would be enough. Unfortunately .

Still pondering if I should take the risk and study / Learn something for the sake of having the papers or not? Any advice ? I am a Mechanical Draftman / 3D CAD designer

Full coverage car insurance also depends a lot on the value of the car. Maybe a less expensive model? Also, while one starts at 100% it should go down quickly. It's been a while since I came to Germany but it seems my percentage dropped already after 6 months and after 3 years was down to something like 60 to 70%. And if you don't find a job closer to work then why not find accommodation closer to your work? Also, € 800 a month for rent is not exactly cheap for one person. Either a smaller place or a shared apartment? Shared apartments are not so ideal for a family but since you are single why not? It is popular in German cities and not just for 20 somethings. And certainly making every effort to get any degree(s) recognized is better than having to go back to study. No sense in giving up prematurely.

TominStuttgart :
w_kamper :

I'v been living in Germany for 1 year now and currently earn 2900.
After deductions I have 1884 leftover. ( I am 37)

My accommodation is 800 , and petrol 250 every month . Insurance alone is 100 euro because they state I have no European driving experience . Luckily I have a German Passport .

But after all the other deductions (without going out or eating out) I am left with 200 - 280 euros depending . ( Tv licenc , food , heating car tax so on all adds up)

When your needs a service or goes for the TUV , there is nothing left.

Unfortunately my work is 70km one way and there is no affordable accommodation in the area.......

I was thinking of studying to become a Machinebautechniker . But financing that for 2-3 years would make me broker than boke. (My papers are not recognized yet or may not be)

If you work isn't far away the salary would be enough. Unfortunately .

Still pondering if I should take the risk and study / Learn something for the sake of having the papers or not? Any advice ? I am a Mechanical Draftman / 3D CAD designer

Full coverage car insurance also depends a lot on the value of the car. Maybe a less expensive model? Also, while one starts at 100% it should go down quickly. It's been a while since I came to Germany but it seems my percentage dropped already after 6 months and after 3 years was down to something like 60 to 70%. And if you don't find a job closer to work then why not find accommodation closer to your work? Also, € 800 a month for rent is not exactly cheap for one person. Either a smaller place or a shared apartment? Shared apartments are not so ideal for a family but since you are single why not? It is popular in German cities and not just for 20 somethings. And certainly making every effort to get any degree(s) recognized is better than having to go back to study. No sense in giving up prematurely.

Thank you for your reply. As said accommodation near my work is very high. 800 cold. I am paying 800 warm . I drive a Toyota Yaris. Small car . But I am grateful I have a job

I've looked into shared accommodation and did have one for 9 months and it wasn't very comfortable with no privacy . I kind feel at 37 one need their independence, but clearly everything comes at a price.

Ideally I want a 1 room apartment near work .But its more expensive than my current apartment . I guess its just timing and waiting for one to come available . With 1880 netto the wohnung does eat most of my saving away obviously . Its not ideal but its the to me 610 cold sounded alright . But after the nebenkosten and heating it jumps up to 800 which I thought I could manage. But clearly I made a mistake and reality set in..

I wanted to live in a Big city so I can meet people and make friends. The town near my work has around 2000 people living if not less.

I'll sign up for a baugenossenschaft so long and see if anything cheaper and closer to work pops up.

Live and learn..Slowly but surely

w_kamper :
TominStuttgart :
w_kamper :

I'v been living in Germany for 1 year now and currently earn 2900.
After deductions I have 1884 leftover. ( I am 37)

My accommodation is 800 , and petrol 250 every month . Insurance alone is 100 euro because they state I have no European driving experience . Luckily I have a German Passport .

But after all the other deductions (without going out or eating out) I am left with 200 - 280 euros depending . ( Tv licenc , food , heating car tax so on all adds up)

When your needs a service or goes for the TUV , there is nothing left.

Unfortunately my work is 70km one way and there is no affordable accommodation in the area.......

I was thinking of studying to become a Machinebautechniker . But financing that for 2-3 years would make me broker than boke. (My papers are not recognized yet or may not be)

If you work isn't far away the salary would be enough. Unfortunately .

Still pondering if I should take the risk and study / Learn something for the sake of having the papers or not? Any advice ? I am a Mechanical Draftman / 3D CAD designer

Full coverage car insurance also depends a lot on the value of the car. Maybe a less expensive model? Also, while one starts at 100% it should go down quickly. It's been a while since I came to Germany but it seems my percentage dropped already after 6 months and after 3 years was down to something like 60 to 70%. And if you don't find a job closer to work then why not find accommodation closer to your work? Also, € 800 a month for rent is not exactly cheap for one person. Either a smaller place or a shared apartment? Shared apartments are not so ideal for a family but since you are single why not? It is popular in German cities and not just for 20 somethings. And certainly making every effort to get any degree(s) recognized is better than having to go back to study. No sense in giving up prematurely.

Thank you for your reply. As said accommodation near my work is very high. 800 cold. I am paying 800 warm . I drive a Toyota Yaris. Small car . But I am grateful I have a job

I've looked into shared accommodation and did have one for 9 months and it wasn't very comfortable with no privacy . I kind feel at 37 one need their independence, but clearly everything comes at a price.

Ideally I want a 1 room apartment near work .But its more expensive than my current apartment . I guess its just timing and waiting for one to come available . With 1880 netto the wohnung does eat most of my saving away obviously . Its not ideal but its the to me 610 cold sounded alright . But after the nebenkosten and heating it jumps up to 800 which I thought I could manage. But clearly I made a mistake and reality set in..

I wanted to live in a Big city so I can meet people and make friends. The town near my work has around 2000 people living if not less.

I'll sign up for a baugenossenschaft so long and see if anything cheaper and closer to work pops up.

Live and learn..Slowly but surely

Yeah, I also like my privacy so a shared accommodation only works with the right person or people. This is common for students and younger people but not unheard of for people your age. You might just have to be selective. No sense in living with a bunch of 20 year old partiers if you are 37 and quiet. If you wouldn’t find a potential flat mate through work then meeting people through hobbies and/or sports groups is the best way in Germany to make social contacts that might also lead to finding a better living situation. So good luck. And not to make light of your situation but compared to most people looking for advice on this site you have a lot of advantages with a German passport and a decent paying job…

Hi Guys,
This is Abhishek here. Currently am based out of Bengaluru India. I have been offered a job contract in Munich Germany. Am seeking help regarding calculating my net take home salary. My gross monthly salary will be 5653€ per month. I tried different calculators and getting different results. Can someone please help me understand the net salary after all the deductions which could be taxes, health insurance, pension and anything else that applies, in two cases:
1) If I move alone
2) If I move with my wife, no children

Also, if it will be sufficient for a decent lifestyle. Thanking in anticipation.

abhishek.agrawal2988 :

Hi Guys,
This is Abhishek here. Currently am based out of Bengaluru India. I have been offered a job contract in Munich Germany. Am seeking help regarding calculating my net take home salary. My gross monthly salary will be 5653€ per month. I tried different calculators and getting different results. Can someone please help me understand the net salary after all the deductions which could be taxes, health insurance, pension and anything else that applies, in two cases:
1) If I move alone
2) If I move with my wife, no children

Also, if it will be sufficient for a decent lifestyle. Thanking in anticipation.

There are plenty of online calculators in the internet. They might give different answers because they only estimate. An exact amount is impossible to know since it can depend on many factors. And the income you mention is well above the average for German families. It won't make you rich but it is very good. But you would realize this if you bothered to look through the forum as this subject has been discussed exhaustively.

Hi Tomin,
I did research the forum pretty well but still had doubts. I really appreciate your time on this.

Thanks,
Abhishek

The German tax system is very complex - and even the estimates you get from online calculators vary depending on all the many input factors. To get a definitive answer, you'd have to engage a tax consultant (for a fee) who will need a lot more input than an online form can take.
Thus I recommend you take the result of the online calculators ar a rough guide (+/-10%). That's as close as you will get before receiving your actual tax notice in the year after your first calendar year of working in Germany (this tax notice will differ from the automatic monthly deductions from your salary during the first year, thus you'll either get some money back or have to pay some additional sum - yes, it IS that complicated!).
And as Tom said above, the offered salary is above the average German household income. So you'll be able to afford more than most.

Thanks a lot Beppi (Y)

Your answer was very helpfull Beppi :) GJ!

Hello Beppi,

I have a question pertaining to wages for a Sportwissenschaftler / Sporttherapeut with a Ausbildung zum Fitness Trainer and Bachelor Degree als Sportwissenschaftler.

Currently I am on a 35 Hour work week and earn 2200 (Recent 100 Euro per month pay rise after 1 year of employment), Brutto per Month from my Company. Following extensive research and talks with my colleagues, I can not believe that a Bachelor educated worker is earning so little in Germany. I speak both fluent english and german and Specialise in Betriebliche Gesundheitsmanagement for other companies.

I would appreciate some input from you about whether my situation is fair from your knowledge.

Vielen Dank im Voraus.
Micah

Sorry, I have absolutely no idea about the salary structure in your field.
If you cannot ask your colleagues or others doing similar jobs, what they earn (this might be a sensitive issue) and if there are no unions negotiating industry-wide pay scales, you could try to find salary surveys by trade associations, consultancies or websites.
But before you do this, ask yourself: what will you do with the information? Are you going to change profession if you find out all are paid like that, but you want more? Or are you prepared to give up your current job (and face uncertainty and potential unemployment) if you find you didn‘t negotiate well enough when you took it?

Hello Beppi,

Thank you for the feedback.
How would one find out if there is a union supporting this in Germany? I was a part of one in Australia and in Australia a 5% Payrise per year is expected, just to cover costs of inflation.

Colleges make the same or less within my workplace, in other workplaces it can be slightly less or more - but from what I gather, this proffession is largely underpaid in Germany.

My Ultimate goal is to Start my own business within this sector, I guess my question comes down to how and where can you find Unions to join for the field of expertise? As that is the only proactive step I can take in the meantime.

Once again thank you for your answer!

Here is a list of all unions in Germany (maybe you can figure out which one, if any, is in charge of your profession):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von … eutschland

Unions in Germany are usually against businessmen. Thus I am a bit puzzled that you want to join one AND become self-employed.

To get a rough idea, I always use google and it gives you a good average of the pay scale.

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