Ecuador's Pending New Immigration Law

How are the immigration officials going to know if a tourist that is in the country for 180 days has insurance?  Will immigration check your paperwork and make your purchase a policy at the airport or the border?  Will you be denied entry without the insurance?  Not that I'd travel without health insurance, but just a few logistical questions
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There's an article in EL Comercio about this new immigration law. The stay of tourists has indeed been extended from 90 to 180 days. And a special 1 year visa will be granted but only once in a 5 year period.

Perhaps the 180 day duration will be similar to the current 90 day stay in that days one is not in Ecuador will not count towards the total.

I guess we'll have to be patient until more details emerge.

http://www.elcomercio.com/actualidad/le … visas.html

Madone Rider wrote:

How are the immigration officials going to know if a tourist that is in the country for 180 days has insurance?  Will immigration check your paperwork and make you purchase a policy at the airport or the border?  Will you be denied entry without the insurance?  Not that I'd travel without health insurance, but just a few logistical questions
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This ain't Obamacare.

If you don't buy insurance, you simply don't get ongoing care.  They're not stopping you at the border and holding your hand as they walk you to an insurance window.

The Ecuadorian government isn't responsible for your being covered.

You are.

cccmedia

I wanted to correct my original post to avoid confusion. While the "Proyecto de Ley Orgánica Movilidad Humana" has passed through the second debate in the Ecudorian legislature, it has not been enacted into law. However, it does stand a good chance of being passed.

What is the "Proyecto de Ley Orgánica Movilidad Humana"? It is a comprehensive overhaul of Ecuador's immigration policies/procedures including visas.

In that regard, there are several noteworthy proposals. Most of the current type 9 immigrant categories like pensioner, investor, and professional would become temporary resident visas good for two years. I think they can be renewed once.

In terms of permanent resident, it could be obtained by having a temporary resident permit for at least 21 months, marriage, if you were a dependent (child or disabled) of a permanent resident or Ecuadorian, or family.

The next step for this bill is the "Aprobación del Pleno".

You can download pdf's of the proyecto along with the informes (reports) of the first and second debates here:

http://www.asambleanacional.gob.ec/es/m … -movilidad

The title of this thread should be changed to it's English equivalent or something along the lines of "Ecuador's Pending New Immigration Law"

Anyway the member DXBDINO28 posted a very interesting link especially for people who recently obtained their residency.

It seems if someone received their residency less than 21 months ago then their residency is classified as "temporary residency", and after 21 months then become permanent residents.

So prior to this new pending law we were permanent residents and now we're temporary residents or are people who obtained residency under the old law, grandfathered in?

So before it was residency then citizenship, now it's temporary residency then permanent residency then citizenship. So three steps instead of two, and this additional step is more paperwork.


Some questions arise:

How do they enforce health insurance requirement for temporary residents?

How does this affect citizenship? Is the duration still 36 months?

I was checking (as the OP) to see if there was a way to change the title of this thread to something less confusing but it seems there is none......perhaps one of the moderators can?

I've read through everything pertaining to visas and residency in the first and second "informes del debate" and it is somewhat vague in regards to details. There will be plenty of speculation until the final version is enacted into law.

Adding to the questions proposed by Vsimple, I have another one to add:

How will this affect the exemption from duties for the "menaje de casa"?  Under the current law, in regards to foreigners, it only applies if you have an type 9 immigrant visa. Under the proposed changes, will the exemption apply to both categories (temporary or permanent resident?)

I think our expert in Quito has wide ranging powers to change things.

Many questions, so few answers.

That's normal when a complicated new law is passed by a legislature.  The executive branch bureaucrats have to apply the law, interpreting and adjusting along the way.

Some confusion at first is natural as the bureaucrats scramble.

----

My earlier statement that Ecuador does not stop people at the border for an insurance check appears to be outdated now.

Enforcement of the new insurance regulation(s) could be pretty straightforward:  requiring an incoming passenger to show an insurance card or receipt issued by his/her insurance carrier.  Theoretically, this could be done by the airlines .. to reduce the possibility that an Expat might travel all the way to an Ecuadorian airport only to find that entrance is denied .. due to lack of an insurance card.

cccmedia

I have US Kaiser HMO health insurance, which covers me anywhere, at least for emergency needs, but have found that my Kaiser co-pay is often about what I pay my Ecuadorian ophthalmologist and neurologist and is more than I pay my Ecuadorian GP, with care generally more prompt, detailed and personal. I do take my Kaiser card with me, along with my immunization record.

With a 9-I visa, leaving Ecuador last time they questioned me about the amount of time I had spent in the country, suggesting that I had not spent the required amount of time. They finally let me go, seemingly having just given up. I got my 9-I in May of 2009 and it is my understanding that there was some kind of minimum time in country requirement but only for the first two years. I was there most of the time but never gave it thought or was questioned about it but my being stopped gave me pause. I suspect that either the clerk or the computer system was just not up to speed but it does make me a little nervous. I have recently been spending more time back in the US for personal and health care reasons and wonder if there is/was some kind of change to the 9-I stay requirements.

Making a side trip from Ecuador to Cuba a few years ago Cuban immigration wanted to see proof of insurance. Because I did not have my Kaiser card with me I wound up having to pay (as I recall) US$40 for Cuban insurance.

You cannot be outside Ecuador for more than 90 days during the first 2 years (730 days) or your residency visa is void.

The date tolls from the date of your visa being granted.

Looking at my passport, I cannot tell whether or not I may have been out of the country more than 90 days for either of the first two years after my 9-I was issued May 24th, 2009. I thought that I could presume that I had complied because I have made may trips out of the country over the six or so years after the 2 years had passed with no problem. I even voted in several elections. I just wondered if they could suddenly somehow determine that in, say, 2010 I had been out more than 90 days, retroactively invalidating my residency visa. I wonder if the clerk just did not understand that my visa was from 1009, not in the last two years, or if their computer had somehow picked up an earlier problem. We plan on returning to Ecuador next month and I do not suddenly experience a problem.

smitty88 wrote:

Looking at my passport, I cannot tell whether or not I may have been out of the country more than 90 days for either of the first two years after my 9-I was issued May 24th, 2009. I thought that I could presume that I had complied because I have made may trips out of the country over the six or so years after the 2 years had passed with no problem. I even voted in several elections. I just wondered if they could suddenly somehow determine that in, say, 2010 I had been out more than 90 days, retroactively invalidating my residency visa. I wonder if the clerk just did not understand that my visa was from 1009, not in the last two years, or if their computer had somehow picked up an earlier problem. We plan on returning to Ecuador next month and I do not suddenly experience a problem.

They pick these things up when a certificado de movimiento migratorio is required as it details number of days one is in Ecuador as well as entries and exits.

After two years, you can be outside Ecuador while retaining EC visa rights .. so long as you are not away for more than 18 months in a 60-month period that could include Years 1 and 2.

cccmedia

Thank you all but this is getting more and more complex and confusing. Which 60 month period? Starting when I return to Ecuador next month and going back five years? Starting now I will likely not live 5 more years. So if I returned to Ecuador July 2012 and go again February 2017 having spent a total of 16 months outside the country and have to return to the US in may my 9-I will become permanently void, as I would have spent more than 18 months away over the particular 60 month period ending July 2017?

Looks like my best bet would be to ignore my 9-I and just get a standard tourist visa, hoping the 180 law is active. I spent most of my previous 8 years there but will likely not be able to remain in Ecuador for more than 6 months a year anyway.

You might be over-thinking this, Smitty.

To preserve visa rights, don't be outside Ecuador more than a total of 18 months in any five-year period during which you hold a residency visa.

For those willing to learn Spanish and Ecuadorian history/geography, more travel flexibility is available through citizenship / Ecuadorian passport.

cccmedia, EC investor-visa holder since February 2014

Presidente Correa has now signed the new immigration law.  Before it takes effect, it must be entered in the official register.

So reports www.cuencahighlife.com ...

There is some fascinating Expat commentary at the Cuenca Highlife website.

The law is suspect, according to some commentary, because it only allows arrivals 90 days to start, same as before, and additional time needed to total 180 days must be applied for.  The current law that's being replaced allows for 90 days to start plus up to an additional 180 days that can be applied for -- 270 in all.

There are other questionable aspects to provisions in the new law .. and I encourage interested parties to read all the Expat commentary that follows the main article at the Cuenca Highlife site to assist in deciphering this complicated law.

cccmedia

This was in the main article. It seems to differ with what you wrote cc

One of the biggest changes is an extension of time visitors are allowed to stay in Ecuador. The new law allows a 180 days stay based on passport entry, including a 90-day extension.

Nards Barley wrote:

This was in the main article. It seems to differ with what you wrote cc

One of the biggest changes is an extension of time visitors are allowed to stay in Ecuador. The new law allows a 180 days stay based on passport entry, including a 90-day extension.

Right, Nards, there is a difference -- or a dispute -- over what's in the law, in particular whether the second 90 days is automatic or requires an additional application to be submitted.

Scroll down to the Expat comments section at the Cuenca Highlife site and you'll see what I mean.

In particular, give a careful reading to the commentary by Danny, which is currently the third post from the top of the Expats comments section below the main article on this topic.

cccmedia

Nards Barley wrote:

This was in the main article. It seems to differ with what you wrote cc

One of the biggest changes is an extension of time visitors are allowed to stay in Ecuador. The new law allows a 180 days stay based on passport entry, including a 90-day extension.

The El-Comercio article I posted concurs with this information, and I rather rely on an Ecuadorian newspaper in this regard than commentary by expats who are receiving information piecemeal and probably interpreting it to their whims.

It's definitely confirmed that Correa signed the ley de movilidad humana today. Now comes the fun part.....trying to find out how this will affect my pending 9V professional visa application. Under the current law the 9V is a permanent resident visa but under the new one it is a two year temporary resident.

Andrew242 wrote:

It's definitely confirmed that Correa signed the ley de movilidad humana today. Now comes the fun part.....trying to find out how this will affect my pending 9V professional visa application. Under the current law the 9V is a permanent resident visa but under the new one it is a two year temporary resident.

Join the club, permanent residents who obtained residency recently are wondering the same thing.

vsimple wrote:

Andrew242 wrote:

It's definitely confirmed that Correa signed the ley de movilidad humana today. Now comes the fun part.....trying to find out how this will affect my pending 9V professional visa application. Under the current law the 9V is a permanent resident visa but under the new one it is a two year temporary resident.

Join the club, permanent residents who obtained residency recently are wondering the same thing.

Now that's its the law, the next question is how will they go about implementing it. My best guess is it will take some time for it take effect since the "Ley de Movilidad Humana" is a comprehensive overhaul of Ecuador's immigration laws.

Andrew242 wrote:

vsimple wrote:

Andrew242 wrote:

It's definitely confirmed that Correa signed the ley de movilidad humana today. Now comes the fun part.....trying to find out how this will affect my pending 9V professional visa application. Under the current law the 9V is a permanent resident visa but under the new one it is a two year temporary resident.

Join the club, permanent residents who obtained residency recently are wondering the same thing.

Now that's its the law, the next question is how will they go about implementing it. My best guess is it will take some time for it take effect since the "Ley de Movilidad Humana" is a comprehensive overhaul of Ecuador's immigration laws.

What's your best guess? What are we looking at months or year +?

vsimple wrote:

Andrew242 wrote:

vsimple wrote:

Join the club, permanent residents who obtained residency recently are wondering the same thing.

Now that's its the law, the next question is how will they go about implementing it. My best guess is it will take some time for it take effect since the "Ley de Movilidad Humana" is a comprehensive overhaul of Ecuador's immigration laws.

What's your best guess? What are we looking at months or year +?

I would imagine a few months with some provisions taking effect sooner than others. I am certainly going to be looking into this as it directly affects me.

It is such a tense situation . I am worried what will happen to the Residency visa applications that are in progress .

DXBDINO28 wrote:

It is such a tense situation . I am worried what will happen to the Residency visa applications that are in progress .

My girlfriend (and visa facilitator) went to the Dirrecion General de Extranjería yesterday to ask the same question.

In regards to visas in process, like mine, it depends on a few things: when the law becomes official (ie: published in the official registry), what stage the visa application is in, and when they implement the new procedures. From what I understand, the ministries have 90 days to comply with the new law(s).

This is how it was explained to my girlfriend from the person from the person at the Dirrecion General de Extranjería who is processing my 9V professional visa. They said in about two weeks they should have a good idea of how my visa will be processed (under the old law or the new one). I'll post an update when I have it.

vsimple wrote:

Andrew242 wrote:

It's definitely confirmed that Correa signed the ley de movilidad humana today. Now comes the fun part.....trying to find out how this will affect my pending 9V professional visa application. Under the current law the 9V is a permanent resident visa but under the new one it is a two year temporary resident.

Join the club, permanent residents who obtained residency recently are wondering the same thing.

While the final text has yet to be published, from what I understand there were few (if any) changes from the "informe del segundo debate". On pages 89-90 under "disposiciones transitorias la cuarta" se dice esto:

Todas las visas mantienen su vigencia según lo establecido en la tipología anterior a esta ley y en su renovación seran cambiadas a las nuevas categorías migratorias y visados correspondientes. En el caso de residencias permanentes estas seran reconocidos con las mismas características de la condicion de residencia permanente determinada en esta ley.

Basically, the old law will apply to current visas until they expire. Upon renewal, the conditions and categories of the new law will apply.....the same for permanent residents as well.


Except for the fact the immigrant/permanent resident visas (pensioner, investor, professional...) are now classified as temporary resident.

Clear as day.......right?

Andrew242 wrote:

the old law will apply to current visas until they expire. Upon renewal, the conditions and categories of the new law will apply.....the same for permanent residents as well.

Except for the fact the immigrant/permanent resident visas (pensioner, investor, professional...) are now classified as temporary resident.

Clear as day.......right?

Not exactly.

Residency visas -- for instance, investor visas and professional visas -- that have been already granted do not have expiration dates.

So if we accept the premise that permanent residents are grandfathered-in while their visas are still valid, then their visas could last a lifetime.

Unless a new law or new rule specifically limits an individual visa or class of visas.

We still need clarity on whether existing “permanent” visas are being re-classified, or whether the change to temporary-resident status is only for visas now in the pipeline .. or submitted in future months and years.

cccmedia

cccmedia wrote:

Andrew242 wrote:

the old law will apply to current visas until they expire. Upon renewal, the conditions and categories of the new law will apply.....the same for permanent residents as well.

Except for the fact the immigrant/permanent resident visas (pensioner, investor, professional...) are now classified as temporary resident.

Clear as day.......right?

Not exactly.

Residency visas -- for instance, investor visas and professional visas -- that have been already granted do not have expiration dates.

So if we accept the premise that permanent residents are grandfathered-in while their visas are still valid, then their visas could last a lifetime.

Unless a new law or new rule specifically limits an individual visa or class of visas.

We still need clarity on whether existing “permanent” visas are being re-classified, or whether the change to temporary-resident status is only for visas now in the pipeline .. or submitted in future months and years.

cccmedia

I was being sarcastic regarding it being clear as the provision I quoted is contradictory in itself. Existing permanent resident visas don't expire, but they will be subject to the requirements of the new law which says many of the former permanent resident categories are now temporary resident.

This also brings up the question of how will the exemption from duties apply to a"menaje de casa". As of present, it only applies to immigrant or work visas. Will it apply to the new temporary resident categories as well?

Lots of questions and concerns which will be answered in the upcoming weeks. While the law says how things will be from this point on, how they implement it is another story. Only time will tell.....

Andrew242 wrote:

I was being sarcastic regarding it being clear as the provision I quoted is contradictory in itself. Existing permanent resident visas don't expire, but they will be subject to the requirements of the new law which says many of the former permanent resident categories are now temporary resident.

This topic is complicated enough on its own, so sarcasm probably won't be of much help on this thread.

You stated that existing permanent visas will be subject to the requirements of the new law that (as you explained it) converts permanent resident categories into temporary resident category.

Only when it's clear who's getting “grandfathered in” and for how long .. will we be able to make sense of this.

cccmedia

cccmedia wrote:

Andrew242 wrote:

I was being sarcastic regarding it being clear as the provision I quoted is contradictory in itself. Existing permanent resident visas don't expire, but they will be subject to the requirements of the new law which says many of the former permanent resident categories are now temporary resident.

This topic is complicated enough on its own, so sarcasm probably won't be of much help on this thread.

You stated that existing permanent visas will be subject to the requirements of the new law that (as you explained it) converts permanent resident categories into temporary resident category.

Only when it's clear who's getting “grandfathered in” and for how long .. will we be able to make sense of this.

cccmedia

In regards to the visas, the text came directly from the "texto aprobady en el Pleno" which is the version that was sent to President Correa. Whether or not he made any changes to it won't be known until it is published in the official registry. The part I posted about the visas is on pages 50-51.

You can download a copy of the text here: http://leyes.asambleanacional.gob.ec/

Andrew242 wrote:

DXBDINO28 wrote:

It is such a tense situation . I am worried what will happen to the Residency visa applications that are in progress .

My girlfriend (and visa facilitator) went to the Dirrecion General de Extranjería yesterday to ask the same question.

In regards to visas in process, like mine, it depends on a few things: when the law becomes official (ie: published in the official registry), what stage the visa application is in, and when they implement the new procedures. From what I understand, the ministries have 90 days to comply with the new law(s).

This is how it was explained to my girlfriend from the person from the person at the Dirrecion General de Extranjería who is processing my 9V professional visa. They said in about two weeks they should have a good idea of how my visa will be processed (under the old law or the new one). I'll post an update when I have it.

Thank you . Please keep us updated .

Two Ecuador attorneys have analyzed the new immigration rules that were signed into law last week (January 28, 2017) .. and their report, in English, has been posted at the Gringos Abroad website.

The page's URL is long, so find the analysis by googling:

    gringosabroad ley de movilidad

Regardless of the lawyers' analysis of the language in the new law, the bureaucrats will still have to interpret the law for things to get crystal clear (if they ever do).

According to this report posted online late this week, the law still has not taken effect .. and must be entered into the official registry of Ecuador before that can happen.

cccmedia

cccmedia wrote:

The page's URL is long, so find the analysis by googling:

    gringosabroad ley de movilidad

cccmedia

Poor excuse from our expert in the historical district of Quito. Moderator,  If he spends too much time in Colombia, strip his title.

Link

I beg to differ.

Being privy to the inner workings of expat.com, I am aware that some of the Experts have Expert-designation for at least two countries.

For instance, a man named Xeeschan has recently been designated the Expert for both the Turkey and Pakistan forums.  He has lived in both countries.

Would I some day accept a double-designation for Ecuador and Colombia?

In a heartbeat.

Anyway, the Court rules that the motion to strip the Ecuador title .. is denied.

We love you, nonetheless, Nards.

cccmedia from Quindío, Colombia, in the heart of
    Juan Valdez Coffee Country

Hi, my 9v application is also in progress, and I'm pretty concerned about the new immigration law, too. I think my application is slower than yours, because I am still under the review of SENESCYT. Is it sure that under the new law, the 9v visa would become a temporary visa? Can it be renewed, or updated to a permanent visa in the future, or it is merely a one-time temporary visa, which means that 9v visa holders must get out of Ecuador once their visas expire?

I heard some rumor that the applicant can get a temporary visa at first which is valid for 2 years, then after 21 months, they can apply for a permanent visa. I don't know whether it would be the case, and if so, what the requirements and documents would be for temporary visa holders and PR applicants.

At this time, I just wish the new law would not take into effect soon.

Oh dear, I had been planning on being a tourist in Ecuador for a few months as a 'boots on the ground' exploration with a view to settling there.  Now it all seems so complicated and as retirees we were going to pay out of pocket for any medical expenses (or hop back across to Mexico or somewhere if necessary).

I will still have a health card from my employer health insurance program but of course it will not actually have any benefits anymore.

Ecuador has been tugging at my heartstrings for about a year calling me to retire there but maybe it is not going to be worth all the complications - I wonder how this is going to affect the country's tourism.
Rosalind

Oh dear, I had been planning on being a tourist in Ecuador for a few months as a 'boots on the ground' exploration with a view to settling there.  Now it all seems so complicated and as retirees we were going to pay out of pocket for any medical expenses (or hop back across to Mexico or somewhere if necessary).

I will still have a health card from my employer health insurance program but of course it will not actually have any benefits anymore.

Ecuador has been tugging at my heartstrings for about a year calling me to retire there but maybe it is not going to be worth all the complications - I wonder how this is going to affect the country's tourism.
Rosalind

Relax. It only seems complicated because we don't know the exact details of the new law, which in due time will be made clearer.

As far as you're concerned, and as a tourist who wants to put " 'boots on the ground' exploration", you have nothing to be concerned about, because you'll can do all of this as a tourist.

Under the old law you will be able to stay here for 90 days and extend for a further 180 days for a total of 270 days.

Under the new law you will receive 180 days initially.

So either way you will have able time to explore.