Overstaying student visa and switching to tourist visa in Brazil

Hello BennyJoe,

First of all, don't fool yourself into thinking that the Federal Police and Ministry of Justice take such a slack attitude toward overstaying VITEM visas that they do for VITUR visa overstays, they do not. In fact they are extremely harsh in their action. They will begin deportation proceedings should you overstay.

Just to give you an example of exactly how rigid they are, there was a student in São Paulo just last year who was on a VITEM-IV in a qualified university program which had ended and he was scheduled to begin the following course shortly before his visa was due to expire. The university had a labor dispute which delayed the start-up date of the course until after the visa would expire. Despite that the Federal Police refused to renew his visa even though all of his other documents, course confirmation, etc., were in perfect order and the fact that it was a situation completely out of his control. The began a deportation proceeding and the only thing that saved him was intervention on his behalf by the Human Rights Commission of the Ordem dos Advogados do Brasil.

So what's the likely scenario in your case? Well, let's say you just overstay your student visa and then try to cross into Argentina; on arrival at the Federal Police immigrations checkpoint they will not just put that big ugly overstay stamp in your passport, but rather a DEPORTED stamp. I think you know what that will do to your chances of returning to Brazil or entering any other country for which you require a visa for the lifetime of that passport, maybe even longer.

Laying low may keep you in Brazil until the date of your return flight, but even that is uncertain and the end result is still going to be that big ugly deportation stamp anyway. You may find laying low very hard to do especially since you plan on taking domestic flights. Here ALL passengers are required to present identification prior to boarding any kind of interstate public transportation, bus, train, plane. Brazilians have to present their RG or Drivers License will do if it's one of the new ones that show the RG and CPF numbers; foreigners are required to present their Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro if they are permanent residents, otherwise they must present their passport. In the pre-9/11 era they weren't too concerned about looking at the visa pages, now they are and they'll be checking even more rigorously during the World Cup period due to the potential for terrorist attacks no matter how slight that may be.

I really recommend that you re-think your entire strategy very quickly and register for another course that would permit you to apply for a "prorrogação de estada" on you VITEM-IV. That's the only thing that will pull your fat out of the fire I'm afraid.

Regarding your account at Itaú, they probably noted down the expiry date on your visa when you opened the account and it will come up as flagged when you make any transactions after that date. They will probably want to see a renewed visa.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, EB Experts Team

I really thought that they have the same attitude regarding overstaying VITEM visas that they do for VITUR visa. So the situation is much worse than I thought.
You mentioned that they will begin deportation procedures if I overstay. Does that mean that they will look for me or something like that if it doesn't appear in their system that I didn't exit the country on the day my student visa will expire? Another fact that maybe I should mention is that I did change my address once since I'm here and I didn't inform the federal police about this. Might that create some problems too?

Oh my god, I will get a deported stamp? So I won't be able to re-enter with a tourist visa. My passport expires in 2018, so 3 years and a half won't be so good with a deported stamp on it.

Instead of taking those internal flights in August, should I travel by bus instead? I've travelled by bus before, but I really don't think that the bus drivers check the visa expiration date. Plus that it will be after the World Cup, so the situation should be a bit more relaxed. Oh my god, traveling by bus between Sao Paulo and Manaus will be interesting.

This is why I cannot extend my current student visa:
I'm not actually following any courses right now, so I don't think I'm registered anywhere as a student.
I came to Brazil through a student organization, for an internship, working in a company. That's how I got the student visa. Even though I mentioned that I wanted to stay 1 year from the beginning, I've been told that the initial period would be 6 months and then I will be able to renew my visa. Knowing that, I booked my return flight to Europe and those internal flights in Brazil.
3 months later I've been told that this student organization lost the partnership/connection to the university, therefore making it impossible for me to renew my student visa. So I simply cannot extend this visa.

Therefore I need to figure out how to get out of this.

New idea:
Leave to Argentina on the date of the expiry of my student visa (01.05.2014) and come back to Brazil in 1-2-3 days with a tourist visa. (being given the tourist visa stamp on the spot I hope)
Then I would be legal for 90 days starting from 4th or 5th May 2014, which means roughly to around 02.08.2014.
With this approach I won't get the deported stamp. But I still cannot board those internal flights between 01.08.2014-28.08.2014 and I will be overstaying the tourist visa in this situation.

A friend of mine suggested that I would do the above instead, try to take the internal flights anyway and have my ticket back to Europe on 28.08.2014 with me all the time. In case someone notices that my tourist visa expires, I can show them that I'm going back to Europe anyway at the end of the same month. And hopefully they will be ok with that.

What do you think? Should I do this instead? Is there a better way?

Thank you, Mr Woodward! Really appreciate the help here. I had no idea about what you advised me so far. Thank you!

Hello BennyJoe,

Many people just assume that because Brazil has such a slack attitude toward VITUR visa overstays that the same is true with VITEM visas. They don't stop to think that they are a whole different set of visa categories that for the most part permit WORK, while you're not supposed to work or study on a VITUR.

Will they come looking for you? That's hard to say, but that's really not like saying they're not going to catch you. I hope that you are aware that the laws here in Brazil require individuals to carry ID at all times and to present it to police whenever asked to do so. Unlike other nations where you many not be required to identify yourself unless you've been taken into custody police here have the right to see identification for any reason. Foreigners are required to carry their travel documents (i.e. passport/visas/protocolos/etc.) at all times and present them on demand.

So what? No big deal, right? BIG DEAL yes.... Imagine you're a passenger in your Brazilian buddy's car and he gets stopped in a "Blitz" (roadside checks common here for checking car registration and licensing or breath testing), the police don't just ask the driver for identification, they ID everybody in the vehicle. Suppose you're in a little bar with some friends and a couple of rough looking Brazilian guys get into a fight and somebody gets hurt. The police arrive and it's always the same, nobody get in and nobody gets out until EVERYBODY in the establishment is identified, involved in the incident or not. What does that mean for a foreigner whose visa is expired.... exactly the same thing that happens in the game of MONOPOLY when you land on that dreaded square or draw that fateful card "Go to jail, go straight to jail, do not pass GO and do not collect $200". Despite the fact that you weren't driving the car that got stopped in the Blitz or in the bar fight the full attention of the police now shifts to you, because they are required to deliver you immediately to the Federal Police.

Your friend's suggestion about leaving Brazil BEFORE the VITEM-IV has expired is exactly what you should do. Will you have any problems coming back into Brazil a few days later as a tourist and getting a VWP 90 day stay using just your passport? I can't say for certain; you should get back in if they treat it the same way as they do coming back into Brazil on a VITEM visa of some kind even though you've used up your 180 days per year on a VITUR. Since they are different visa categories there is no problem. So does it work the other way around? I really don't know since I have not dealt with anyone in that situation before, probably YES.

If you do get back in will the overstay on a VITUR be a big deal? Depends on what you consider a big deal... if you mean as far as fine or coming back into Brazil in the future, absolutely not, no big deal at all. You pay the R$8,25 per day overstay fine and that's the last you ever hear of it; you can come back into Brazil anytime you are entitled to visit days. If you're talking about the possible consequences it might cause with future travel to other countries, yes it is a big deal because you get that big fat "overstay" stamp in your passport, so for the useful life of that passport other countries could use it as a reason to deny entry or deny a visa to enter, work or study in their nation.

If you aren't planning any travel to other countries, then the overstay at the end is no problem.

So, what would I recommend doing in your situation? One of two things:

1. If you're going out of Brazil anyway just so you can come back in as a VWP tourist, can you afford to stay out of Brazil long enough to cover that 27 or 28 day gap at the end? If so that keeps you 100% legal the whole time and you will have no problems.

2.  You could hope to get away with something that I've heard sometimes works (don't have any personal experience with this). Just before the 90 day VWP tourist stay expires you once again leave Brazil for a short few day stay in one of the neighboring countries. Re-enter Brazil and get a further 90 day stamp. While it is NOT the way things are supposed to be done by the Federal Police, I have been told by several members that is exactly what they have done. What I would recommend if you are going to try this option is to make sure you've got a couple of days of that initial 90 days remaining on the visa. At least if they won't give you the new 90 day stay you could still come back into Brazil on the day of your flight home to board the plane.

Keep me posted on what is going on, it will help others!!!

Cheers,
William James Woodward, EB Experts Team

Hey Mr Woodward,

Yes, I was thinking indeed that they have the same attitude for both VITEM and VITUR visas. But it seems like it's not the case. Thank you for the clarification!

Ok, I understand that I risk being caught because they can ask me to identify myself at all times. I might have been underestimating the situation.

Regarding coming back into Brazil a few days later as a tourist and getting a VWP 90 day stay using just your passport:
I just found on Brazil's consulate in London website here http://cglondres.itamaraty.gov.br/en-us/faqs_visa.xml (number 13) mentioned that it is possible to re-enter the country as a tourist. It doesn't mention though if that can happen immediately.
But I found this other source http://questions.visahunter.com/can-i-r … isa-expire that does mention that I can come back immediately on a tourist visa.
By the way, I posted the same question here http://travel.stackexchange.com/questio … tourist-vi , which wasn't very useful as it got marked as off-topic.
Anyway, I will call the Romanian embassy (my nationality) on Monday to ask them if this is possible. They should know.

Regarding overstaying the VITUR:
Thank you for the advice regarding traveling to other countries. I guess I just have to accept the consequence, as it seems that I have no other option. Anyway, it is way better to get the overstay stamp than the deported stamp.

Regarding your 2 options advice:
1. I'm not really sure that I can afford to stay in Argentina till 28.05.2014. That would be ideal because then I would be 100% legal. I will take a decision this week and let you know.

2. Someone just metioned that he did the exact same thing "But don't you get a new stamp every time you enter Brazil? This January, I entered Brazil 3 times and every time, I got a new 90 days stamp." in a comment on my question in Travel Stackexchange.
I didn't know that. That might work. This seems to be the best approach so far.
One question: Should I try this with a specific border/airport? I live in Sao Paulo. Do you think I have more success chances if I fly to Foz do Iguacu, then cross the border to Argentina in a taxi or something, stay in Argentina 2-3 days and come back the same way? Or should I fly from Sao Paulo to Buenos Aires (bigger and more busy airports), as hopefully they won't pay that much attention to my passport and just stamp it and let me go? Does it matter if I do this through airports or not? Should I try to go to Montevideo rather than Buenos Aires? Really confused right now.
And how does getting this tourist visa stamp work? I just show up, give them the passport and consider it's normal to get the stamp? Should I mention that I'm a tourist? What should I say if they say "You've just been here on a student visa. What are you doing back here again?"

Additional questions:
Let's say I get the tourist visa till around 02.08.2014 and then try to take internal flights with the expired visa? If I have my flight ticket on 28.08.2014 back to Europe with me all the time and somebody notices that my VITUR is expired could I play the card "Oh sorry, I thought it's 180 days" or something like that? Then I just show them that I am leaving Brazil anyway on 28.08.2014. Do you think they will deport them or something like that? What could happen? Force me to board a flight earlier?  Could they apply that "You have 7 days to leave Brazil." policy? Because I'm leaving at the end of August anyway.

What do you think?

Thank you, Mr Woodward! Really useful advice.

And regarding taking internal flights with an expired visa:
I found this forum gringoes.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2989&PN=1&title=expired-visas-and-internal-flights where some say that they didn't have problems, but the user maddog says that he did have problems boarding a flight at Foz do Iguacu, most probably because it's a border city.
Should I avoid those border cities? Can I consider that if I try to switch to the tourist visa as flying from Sao Paulo to Buenos Aires would be easier and safer than flying from Sao Paulo to Foz do Iguacu and pass the border to Argentina by land ?

Getting the 90 day initial VWP entry visa renewed by leaving Brazil is always a role of the dice. Some do and some don't, just because the Federal Police at entry points aren't all on the same page of the songbook. Everybody seems to interpret things their own way and make their own rules as they go along, as always with the Federal Police.

Yes, they certainly may invoke the 7 or 8 day "invitation" to leave voluntarily and in that case you really have no choice.

Taking domestic flights never used to be EXTREMELY risky, they really did used to look at the ID page of your passport and not often at the visa. That has change significantly lately, since the Confederation Cup, Papal visit and with the upcoming World Cup it will be more rigidly enforced still. By all indications that is going to continue even after the World Cup, possibly right through until the 2016 Olympic Games. I wouldn't risk it if I were you.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, EB Experts Team

Then I guess I have to go to Argentina next weekend, enter again with the tourist visa (hopefully without problems) and then in the beginning of August, before my tourist visa expires, leave Brazil and try get back and hopefully get another stamp that I got the initial tourist visa renewed.

I'm thinking to try this with big busy airports like Sao Paulo - Buenos Aires and hopefully it will be fine.

And yes, I don't really like the idea of risking the internal flights without a valid visa. Especially because I will not travel alone.

Ok. I will call the embassy tomorrow and I will take a decision those days on what to do.

I will post here the progress of what is happening, hopefully might help someone one day.

Thank you for the help, Mr Woordward!

I just thought of another problem:
When I get back from Argentina, in order to be allowed to re-enter Brazil on a tourist visa, do I need to show some proof of exiting the country within those 90 days permitted?
Can I use my return ticket to Europe on 28.08.2014 and tell them that I plan to exit Brazil anyway before those 90 days and then return again to take my flight from Sao Paulo to Europe? (so I don't break the 90 days rule)
What do you think? Should I buy the cheapest flight/bus ticket from Brazil to wherever just to prove that I will get out of the country before 90 days and actually don't use that?

Hey

Your comments just ended up without ending, I have the same problem and i have to solve them in days, please let me know what happenned in the end!

Thank you very much
Victor

Hey guys,

One year later, still didn't post the outcome of the adventure. My bad, let's fix that.
Here's what I did:

I couldn't get my student visa renewed, because that student organization that I came with to Brazil, lost the partnership with the university that I got the initial visa for. So that option was out.
My student visa expired on 3.05.2014. On that day I took a flight from Sao Paulo to Buenos Aires. I got the tourist visa for Argentina on the spot when I arrived in Buenos Aires. Therefore I didn't overstay my student visa.
I then stayed in Buenos Aires till 20.05.2014 when I boarded a flight to Sao Paulo, arrival date 21.05.2014. On the arrival in Sao Paulo, the person who checked my passport looked a bit confused at me and asked 'Are you a tourist?'. I said 'Yes' with half voice. Then she asked 'Yes?'. I shit my pants and said 'Yes' more confident. She still looked a bit confused (probably because I had a student visa that just expired), but eventually stamped my passport with a tourist visa.
Now the interesting thing (just checked my passport) is that the period is not mentioned on that tourist visa. (for Brazil) I know it's supposed to be 90 days, but they didn't write it on my visa, like they did to the one I got for Argentina.
So, why did I stay almost 3 weeks in Argentina? Because I wanted the 90 days to be long enough to cover the period in which I needed to take those several internal flights, from 1.08.2014 to 18.08.2014. That way, I could legally take those flights and travel with my friends. So my 90 days started on 21.05.2014 when I arrived in Brazil.
You can check this link (timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?d1=21&m1=05&y1=2014&d2=18&m2=08&y2=2014&ti=on) to see that there are exactly 90 days between 21.05.2014 and 18.08.2014.
I continued working while having a bank account up to 1.08.2014, without problems. I kind of kept low profile, didn't get into anything bad, fights or whatever.
I took several internal flights between 1.08.2014 to 18.08.2014, without problems.
I was a bit illegal in Brazil from 19.08.2014 to 25.08.2014, overstaying my tourist visa. I traveled to Rio (from Sao Paulo) and back with buses and didn't have any problems.
On 25.08.2014 I went to the airport in Sao Paulo to board my flight to Europe. I was kind of scared and ready to pay the fee of 63 reais for overstaying 7 days.
I went to the passport check pretty nervous (trying to keep calm) and guess what? The lady stamps my passport with the exit stamp and wishes me a nice flight. No problem what-so-ever. I don't know if she didn't notice or didn't care or whatever happened, but I was surely happy.
All my problems stopped there. Got to Europe safe.

Important to note: On 3.08.2014 I crossed the border (by taxi) to Argentina, going to see the Argentinian side of the waterfalls at Foz do Iguacu. I got another 90 days tourist visa for Argentina. Exited on the same day (also by taxi) and when I re-entered Brazil I did NOT get another 90 days tourist visa (for Brazil).
One thing to note: As they didn't specifically wrote 90 days on my tourist visa for Brazil that I got on 21.05.2014, I would have played the card 'Oh really, it's only 90 days?' in case they would have asked me why did I overstay 7 days when I left Brazil on 28.08.2014. Not needed in the end. Better.
Another information: I closed my Brazilian bank account on 25.08.2014, when my visa was expired already. Went smooth, I don't think they checked anything, had no problems.

That's all folks. Oh Brazil, good times.

Victor, if you have any other questions let me know and I can try to help with whatever.

Hello,
Please, I need some clarification.
My student visa expired and I was told to go out side brazil to get another one. Which is not problem, but I have overstayed for months now but this was due to misunderstanding base on the fact that the requested days was not issued. Instead of 365 days, just three months was issued. My question is : When I am going out of brazil to obtain another, I have determined to pay fine and I want to ask if my passport is going to be stamped overstayed? And if it is stamped, can I come to brazil immediately or when?

Responses to the above questions

folord wrote:

Responses to the above questions

See your other topic posting for your answer.

Cheers,
James         Expat-blog Experts Team

Hello, I am currently on a student visa till February 27th 2018. I entered the country on the 18th of February 2017 on a tourist visa and after my 180 days left the country and re-entered on a student visa.

Do i need to leave the country and re-enter after my student visa has expired and receive a tourist visa? Or can leave the country and re-enter after the 18th of February and re-enter with a tourist visa while my student visa is still valid?

I'm looking to purchase flights and I am unsure what dates to book.


Thank you!!!!!!