Has anyone gone through the simplified naturalization precedure?

I personally think it is very unfair to those people who have family roots to Hungary to make it so hard for them when so many people are coming into Hungary and getting enough status to stay without any blood roots to Hungary.
For me, in many ways I wish they would do me a huge favor and deport me but alas...( I do have some roots here and in Poland, not worth much though)
I  really think blood should count for something here, in the US where I was born, so many people get citizenship who can barely form a sentence in English.
Hungary is just too tough on people and they really do not offer enough for all the trouble, at least that is my worthless
2 cents.

zif wrote:

My impression now is that the language 'investment" for most people would be at least two years of serious study followed by three months' practical speaking experience in Hungary.
...
In any event, I still can't understand why folks here are having such difficulties while the Hungarian government keeps issuing statistics showing an exceptionally high success rate.

My thoughts exactly. A success rate well north of 90% can't involve anything like the rigorous vetting described by Blonder. My experience, which I detailed here in a few posts, was completely different. I said it before, and I'll say it again, something is very odd about this particular, specific application and/or the way it's being handled. My interview -- which was well after the revised, stricter procedures were announced -- was entirely pro forma, and the few dozen people I met at the ceremony didn't report anything intensive about their application review. And this was in the USA, not in a neighboring country.

Unfortunately none of this will come as any consolation to Blonder or to anyone else who may encounter a similarly odd application process.

Hello.
The staff told me that the process has become more difficult.  I wrote that long passage earlier so please refer to it.
WE have to study study and study for the 2nd interview in 3-4 months time.
The conversation was not about the application.  It was so random.  That on top of nerves made me sad that I have put in months and almost 2 years and YES, I have problems understanding more than speaking.  The pace is fast and I did say "kiscit izgulok" -- I was frustrated as I already had in writing from the Embassy that YES, my grandparents were born Hungarian citizens but lost it in 1920 due to Trianon.  I stated I am already an EU member so perhaps some want it just for EU access but for me it was to respect my grandparents and plus I am moving there in January and I do love the country.
The staff was very kind and said the language is difficult and I said I am really trying so hard.  I speak 6 languages fluent and I'm an interpreter by profession.  Hungarian isn't Slavic or Asian in anyway so YES, it is a challenge.  I stated in my CV, please look at me as a whole person.  I am a good member of society, ready to invest in Hungary and financially very stable.  I am doing this all out of passion.  "Magyar a verem" I stated.  Again the Embassy staff were very kind and the issue is the changes made due to others in the past taking advantage of the system.

Staff knows I have a Canadian and EU dual citz already and stated that it was clear I was doing all this from passion and not someone trying to jump over a fence to get in.  (not in those words) -- May we all somehow pass and YES we do deserve as it is a hard language but the BLOOD is there.  I'm proud to say that my grandparents were Hungarian and my blood is Hungarian.  I WILL say in all fairness that Hungary is a lot more fair -- a lot more than Slovakia or Poland regarding citizenship.  I respect PM Orban Viktor for making this an easier process and I guess at this point I will be reading my Hungarian lessons on the plane! 

It seems most of us are either American, Canadian or Aussie.  They are all great countries and the Hungarian Ministry does know this.  They also know that there are those of us that respect and love our ancestry.  It makes life a full circle to know our blood and our ancestry.
Good luck my friends in this forum and let's keep updated.  Sorry for the lack of punctuation and accents but I'm so tired and using an Asian keyboard! 

blonder wrote:

..... Again the Embassy staff were very kind and the issue is the changes made due to others in the past taking advantage of the system....

That almost sounded like the Hungarian state is doing people a favour.

Surely if your are entitled to citizenship under the law, then they are obliged to provide it.

No taking advantge of the system there....surely?

Szia Fluffy,
It seems the more I learn the more confused I get.
Random.  At this point all I know is have your documents in order and study, study and study more.
Changes made were confirmed but I read about people on here like Marilyn and I shake my head curious to why she has not been given citizenship looking at her ancestry, husband, time in Hungary etc. 
Hopefully the laws will be "kinder" and things will work out for all on this forum

blonder wrote:

Szia Fluffy,
It seems the more I learn the more confused I get.
Random.  At this point all I know is have your documents in order and study, study and study more.
Changes made were confirmed but I read about people on here like Marilyn and I shake my head curious to why she has not been given citizenship looking at her ancestry, husband, time in Hungary etc. ...

Szia Blonder,

I'm also entitled as I'm the parent of Hungarian citizens and I'm married to a Hungarian.  But I cannot pass the language test. I could probably manage it if it was in a "recognised" minority language like German. Interestingly, in places like the UK (where I come from),one can take the nationality language test in a recognised minority language (i.e. Welsh or Gaelic, perhaps even Cornish one day).

It's not uncommon of course to have to pass a language test for citizenship but I do wonder about the HU laws - is this path to citizenship naturalisation or is it actually entitlement?

Well, good luck anyway!

I wish everyone who has blood ties to Hungary to get easy track citizenship if they wish it.
I am afraid to say it probably all comes down to money.
would not be surprised to find out people with no roots at all to Hungary can buy themselves papers while those with legit claims are given the run around and told they don't cut it.
Sad, so few Hungarians around as it is, they seem to discourage and be against their own people.
I have  a few distant roots in Hungary blood wise besides my marriage and birth of my Hungarian son. Found out 2 years ago I still have cousins living in HU and a distant aunt. My blood roots are more Ruysn and German though, our lands were part of Hungary a very long time ago.
I am almost" Done" mentally with Hungary so citizenship is not something I personally am seeking but would like to be able to stay here until my business is done with here without further troubles with immigration. Have to go back to renew my resident permit next June, not sure what to expect this time since last time was such trouble with them.
It can be frustrating for those who really have emotional ties to Hungary and get rejected, sorry for them.
I know my Hungarian husband took it very personally when I had troubles with immigration, after all his family did for Hungary and all the hard work he did when he lived here in the hard commie years. sad when all that adds up to nothing.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I wish everyone who has blood ties to Hungary to get easy track citizenship if they wish it.

Nationality laws are weird. Especially in regards to the "blood ties" issue. They can be seemingly quite arbitrary.

For example, my mother is the daughter of German citizens, and was thus a citizen at birth. Thus I certainly have "blood ties" to Germany (in fact my mother's family genealogy is well documented going back to the 16th century). But I was born before 1975 when the law required my Father alone to be the German citizen for me to directly get German citizenship. If I was born just a few year later, it would be different. Despite the more recent changes, I am still a "victim" of the old patriarchal law; but that is the law, so there we are.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I am almost" Done" mentally with Hungary so citizenship is not something I personally am seeking but would like to be able to stay here until my business is done

Be careful that you have not trapped yourself in a Sunk Cost Fallacy.

Funny, lost my marbles a long time ago though...
All good.
Yes blood ties are strange, I am 1/8th Mohawk Indian through my mother's side, comes down the female line for generations.In native culture having female blood ties is stronger then having male ties.
sad thing is although my great-grandmother was full blooded and born on the res. back in the day native people really did not have birth records in white gov. offices, most people were born at home, my mother was born at home.
Need to have 4 people of native blood living on the res, to actually state you are one of them to be included as a Mohawk these days, almost impossible to do. Oh , well, another tie broken.
Need to end all ties before departing the planet I suppose.
getting citizenship in any EU country these days is hard, I know when I visited Poland I found 4 relations who were listed in the museum as being from the area and being axle grease traders,( around 1856) I know my father brought with him to the US paperwork that stated he was born into some sort of gov, office, think it was mayor of his village through birth. My Hungarian /American silly step-mom( Hungarians all around me) tossed the paperwork out in the trash without letting my dad know. I remember he was out of his mind about it, just an emotional thing for him.
He never even considered any of his 6 ( that we know of) children ever going to SE Poland to visit, he died in 1986 when it was still under Soviet rule.( Got a half bro in Japan from what I heard, born just post WW11, not to mention the one born from my mom's ex best friend, what a family..)
Don't worry about me, I am sane, at least for now, just too much energy for the stand and wait lifestyle in HU. Still have a few tricks up my sleeve.

Szia Marilyn, Fluffy, Kisalle and Spooty,
Great posts and interesting. 
I agree that the basics of a language should suffice and we all know starting from zero to intermediate level is not an easy task.  Like Kisalle mentioned re German citizenship.  My father was German.  I was born pre-1975 and my sister and I could take German citizenship.  No questions, no language tests and lots of smiles.  We were entitled by blood for German citizenship as this is Abstammung.
I would agree that the Hungarian and many other populations are decreasing.  We are blood and ONLY because of Trianon borders changing we have challenges that should most likely not happen.
Like German citizenship, if you are blood = you are a citizen and no questions asked.
BUT, as difficult as the language is (Spanish, French etc you could learn in a month), its not as bad as I said earlier compared to Slovakia if you were born between 1949-1969 or Polish.  Dates do screw us out of citizenship but what can you do?  It's ageism at its worst!
We all seem to be a benefit to Hungary.  We do this because of our blood.  We are not fleeing wars or countries that people are hopping fences to get out of = UK, America, Canada, Australia, NZ etc.  These have been discussed in the Interior as I was told by Embassy staff but some agreed and some disagreed.  We all have many Hungarians living in our jus soli countries and they are a normal part of society.
This is the point I was told but its not in writing. 
Marilyn, when I had to register as a permanent resident in Slovakia to inherit all my grandparents land, they put me through HELL for something that should be so easy.  I'm German!  EU citz = right of residency!  Endless hours and paperwork.  I can't imagine the hell of being a non-EU member trying to get residency in Slovakia. 
I would rather take Hungarian citz over Slovak any day.  The bureaucratic BS that was shoved in my face for 5 years made me say, enough!  Not worth it.  The staff didn't even know the law well enough and the senior official got so many laws wrong from 1993.
I told them time to update but the only update was from PM Fico's response (NO dual citz to hurt Hungarian Slovaks) within a day after PM Orban announced our honositas.  So they can make changes in a day but only ones that benefit them.  I feel for the Hungarians in Slovakia that are treated like second class citizens.  I was spit on once for speaking Hungarian in Slovakia and my Hungarian plate rental car was scratched an egged! 
Oh well -- hopefully the changes will continue in our favor and one day we all meet and have a drink and some smiles over our great accomplishment of bringing our family blood to present day!

klsallee wrote:

...... But I was born before 1975 when the law required my Father alone to be the German citizen for me to directly get German citizenship. If I was born just a few year later, it would be different. Despite the more recent changes, I am still a "victim" of the old patriarchal law; but that is the law, so there we are....

Apart from that clear human rights failure, I think Germany does not allow dual nationality except under exceptional circumstances or one would have to renounce citizenship. Maybe a step too far.   

Even more recent laws - back only to 2006 - would have meant that the Fluffyettes would not have been British had I not married Mrs Fluffy.  As it is now, it's unlikely our grandkids will inherit British citizenship unless there's a change in the rules.  The only way to keep it going downwards is for our kids to go to the UK and live there full time for about 3 years.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I think Germany does not allow dual nationality except under exceptional circumstances

Duel German citizenship is allowed if second citizenship is automatically provided at birth (such as the USA) to a child of German citizen parent(s). So If my mother gave birth to me today, in the same place she did, I would be a legal dual citizen.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The only way to keep it going downwards is for our kids to go to the UK and live there full time for about 3 years.

Hm. Like I said, nationality law.... weird.

I checked with 2 lawyers and also both ministries.
Jus soli, like Canada or Australia, UK etc - no problem to obtain EU citz.
As far as having 2 EU citz, again no problem.
In German law:
Stated in citizenship act itself:
§25 I 2 StAG

blonder wrote:

Endless hours and paperwork.  I can't imagine the hell of being a non-EU member trying to get residency in Slovakia.

Read some of Marilyn's posts on the hell she went through trying to get Hungarian residency.

People and bureaucracies exist everywhere and one's overall favorable or unfavorable view is built a lot on personal experience. (My residency permit application was not really that bad, in comparison).

blonder wrote:

The staff didn't even know the law well enough and the senior official got so many laws wrong

Well... That happens in Hungary too. How much you are exposed to it, will depend on what you do here and how long you live in the country, and if you are "lucky" or not getting a competent bureaucrat to assist you when needed.

Personal experience and personal comfort zones combine to give each of us a personal perspective.

One Hungarian, who use to be at this forum, got so fed up with his own country he packed up the family and emigrated to Canada -- doing the opposite route you are taking.

blonder wrote:

So they can make changes in a day but only ones that benefit them.

Happens a lot in politics, in every country. Including Hungarian leadership (under all administrations since I first arrived here in 1998). One's views on political action can wildly differ, depending a lot on if one is one of the "them" that benefits or not.

klsallee wrote:

...Hm. Like I said, nationality law.... weird.

Gets even weirder.  UK has different categories of citizenship such as British Citizen, British National (Overseas), British Subject and so on. Not all of these have rights to live in the UK. It's like being 1/2 a citizen. Some of them even need visas to visit the UK.  I reckon that's an abuse of people's human rights.  It's completely demented.

Hello.
Just received this from "another" embassy re language.

"A társalgási szintű magyar tudás elegendő a magyar nyelvtudás igazolásához. A nyelvtudását a kérelmezés során a konzul fogja ellenőrizni – magyarul kell majd kommunikálnia"

Well said.
My father was born in Poland in 1921. Only my grandfather by a fluke was born in the US, that's the reason my father, aunt and grandmother were allowed into the US back in the late 1920's.
From what I understand the US but restrictions on people from eastern Europe around 1920 or so.
I believe his village was at one time part of HUngary, family goes back to that village for more then 300 years, probably longer but that's as far back as I have reports of so far.
I know most, not all some are scummy but most HUngarians that have come to the US are really hard working and in many cases have adopted the American lifestyle more then us born over there.
Sorry for your troubles with your rental car in SK, I have heard they are not too crazy about Hungarians there, same thing in Romania, Hungarians are treated like second class citizens. We were nearly run off the road in Romania 3 times in 4 days just because we had HU plates on the car, silly people.

Looking over the names of my family tree from Poland I noticed many relations intermarried with Hungarians. So many common Hungarian names such as Novak and Barna. Makes me wonder if I have some of that paprika blood in my veins too.
It would be interesting to know if through my father and grandmother if my siblings and I could even be considered Polish citizens,  dad was born in SE Poland in Gorlice country, very near the SK boarder.

Greetings from Atlanta.

Having just returned from a wonderful trip to Budapest (my 3rd time), I'm looking further into getting Hungarian
passport / citizenship.

My family is entirely Hungarian: both of my parents were born in Budapest, married in France, and came to the US in the early 1950's. At the time of my birth, they were not American citizens, but became so about a year afterwards.

While in Hungary, I met some of our relatives and we found my father's birth record (1918 in District V Budapest) and also my paternal grandparent's marriage certificate.The source fot his was on the FamilySearch Historical Records website:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/ … istration_(FamilySearch_Historical_Records)

Unfortunately, I can't find my Mother's documents, but have relatives in Budapest that might be able to help me.

But the real issue before further delving into this is the Hungarian language requirement, as my knowledge is very weak. And from reading the various posts on this subject  (and elsewhere) make me wonder if it's worth the effort to pursue this further or not. 

Can anybody give me useful information?

Köszönöm szépen

Tony

Hello.
Go to a Hungarian Embassy first and find out:
egyszerűsített honosítási eljárás, vagy állampolgárság megállapítás?

1.  Hungarian Citizenship
The regular Hungarian Citizenship procedure applies for people whose parent or grandparent is (was) a Hungarian citizen.

2.  Simplified Naturalization - Egyszerűsített Honosítás
The procedure of Simplified Naturalization was set up for people who belong to the ethnic Hungarian community, live outside of Hungary and wish to apply for Hungarian citizenship.

If #1, no language ability needed.
   #2, read all the posts and issues by the kind folk on this forum.

If your parents were still Hungarian citizens when you were born, then you may already be a Hungarian citizen yourself. Instead of applying for naturalization, you apply for a certificate recognizing your Hungarian citizenship at the embassy/consulate. No language requirement if you qualify under this procedure.

You'll need your parents' birth certificates from Hungary (perhaps one will do, I don't know), their marriage certificate from France, and your birth certificate from the US, all translated where necessary and in proper legal form. I don't believe you need to go back further than your born-in-Hungary parents under this approach, but I'm not certain.

Thanks for the encouraging replies.  I'll check with the Hungarian consultate officials the next time they're in Atlanta.

The other question is that my father was born in 1918 in Budapest. However, my paternal grandfather was originally from Arad, then part of Hungary and later became part of Romania. So he was technically also a Hungarian citizen at the time of my father's birth. But would the Treaty of Trianon in 1920 be used to refute my grandfather's citizenship?

Tony

The interaction of Hungarian citizenship law and Trianon is very complicated, and it is certainly possible to create problematic theoretical situations.

It's a topic too complicated for here, so I'll just point out that under Trianon only those ethnic Hungarians with "pertinenza" in the lost territories who did not quickly move to post-Trianon Hungary lost Hungarian citizenship under the Treaty. Thus if your grandfather was living in Budapest in 1918 and thereafter I don't believe he would have lost his Hungarian citizenship under Trianon. (Don't ask about pertinenza; you'll have to research the term yourself if you're curious.)

In any event, I take it your parents travelled to the US as Hungarian citizens on Hungarian passports, so with that sort of evidence of their Hungarian citizenship in hand, I'm not clear how your paternal grandfather's citizenship would come into play. By raising it you simply confuse what otherwise sounds like a fairly clearcut situation.

In 1920, those living outside present day Hungary, lost their Hungarian citizenship.  My nagypapam was born in 1889 as a Hungarian citizen but lost it in 1920 as they could not move from his fathers land. Not really a choice back then. So until age 31 he and nagymaman were Hungarians. 1920 onward they became the now defunct Czechoslovakians.   A messy border time in history.  Many lost in 1920 and not by their decision.  Not like today where we jump on a plane and leave. I read their old letters and with kids and farmland, choices were zero unfortunately.

zif wrote:

If your parents were still Hungarian citizens when you were born, then you may already be a Hungarian citizen yourself. Instead of applying for naturalization, you apply for a certificate recognizing your Hungarian citizenship at the embassy/consulate. No language requirement if you qualify under this procedure.

You'll need your parents' birth certificates from Hungary (perhaps one will do, I don't know), their marriage certificate from France, and your birth certificate from the US, all translated where necessary and in proper legal form. I don't believe you need to go back further than your born-in-Hungary parents under this approach, but I'm not certain.

This is correct, as far as I know.

I received my Hungarian passport in 2012. My father was born in Hungary and lived there until he escaped Communism to come to the U.S. I had to provide my father's birth certificate, my parents' marriage certificate (proving they were married at the time of my birth since my mother is not Hungarian) and my birth certificate. You won't have to go back any further to your grandparents since both of your parents were Hungarian citizens. And no language requirement with this route. I'm not sure where you're located, but I lived in Chicago and representatives from the New York Hungarian consulate made several trips and took appointments to help people with the required paperwork.

blonder wrote:

Szia!   My application was submitted and I will continue studying so that in 3-4 months if I am lucky enough to get accepted, I will be prepared on a wider scale.  All I can say to you in this forum is that there is no way to know what you will be asked.  I have a Skype teacher for months now as class wasn't working for me and I study so much on my own but I wish I could tell you exactly what you will be asked but clearly I don't know.  You are rated low-medium-high on the intermediate scale and I was a weak medium with kind words of how hard I'm studying and hopefully that will allow me to show what I can do in 3-4 months.  I was told they don't submit if you don't speak well.  Therefore, low = basic, medium = conversational and high = fluent.

WOW! Great detailed post. I'm a bit confused...

You said they don't submit if you don't speak well, yet they submitted your application?  So you spoke well enough to have it submitted? What would you need to show in 3-4 months then?

The laws changed recently that once your application has been submitted (accepted), in 3-4 months time you must go back in and they check your Hungarian level again before you do the oath or get your certificate.
If you do not speak well enough, they have the right to deny your positive decision from Budapest.
Therefore I am ok now but must expect round 2 of language "testing" around November.  As stated before it has become more difficult.

Blonder - can you share how you know this or a link to where the law was changed?

Does anyone else know about this?

@Jesperrs.  Just what I was told at my interview. 
Changes are constant but this was written on the last page of adatlapom. (Embassy staff wrote this)
I signed off on this with full understanding and in agreement. Fair enough in my mind.

http://hungarytoday.hu/news/deputy-pm-n … year-25751

Deputy PM: Number Of Applications For Hungarian Citizenship Expected To Reach 800 000 By The End Of The Year

Only applies to Ukrainians?

Hello! I am hoping to apply for simplified naturalization within the next 9-12 months. :-)

My great-great grandfather was ethnically Slovakian but was a Hungarian citizen. It shows on landing papers into Texas that he was. Now I am just waiting on his birth certificate to arrive and all of my documents will be in order. I have been working on my Hungarian but am getting quite nervous as it is so difficult. I feel like I will have the basics but I need someone to speak very slowly and sometimes more than once for me to be able to somewhat understand. 😕

Hopefully it all goes well! Especially since I live in Texas and the nearest place is DC for me to go!

There used to be a Hungarian embassy in S. Cal. closer to you.

I'm the same as you Tex.  Born Hungarian but 1920 changed that to Czechoslo>Slovak.  They have upped the language from basic to low intermediate level.  Study and learn your CV.  I had a hard time as well answering rapid fire questions.  They know it's a difficult language but the only way to sort lamb from the sheep.  I'm curious with all this migrant stuff going on does it impact those of the blood trying for naturalization ?

I had my interview recently and my experiences were exactly the opposite of blonder. It was a great experience.

Just a FYI.

Hi Jesperss. How strong are your language skills? Could you give us an idea of what the interview entailed? Thank you so much!!

Please share your experience and questions asked.  Mine was difficult but the embassy staff member was lovely.

Hello Everyone,

I'm in the process of obtaining documents in Padina (previously Austria-Hungary, now Serbia) to prove my line of descent. My 2nd great-grandparents came to the US in the early 1900s (before 1910). I've been reading this thread for information, and I will likely be applying for simplified naturalization.  The problem is, I don't speak Hungarian.  My family spoke Slovakian, and are ethnic Slovaks.  So, I'm going take classes and learn Hungarian that doesn't involve asking for food.

I stumbled upon this posted in the forum:

"In Hungary, applicants for naturalisation must pass an exam on the constitution, Hungarian history and Hungarian literature (civic knowledge). More positively, applicants over 65 or below 18, applicants with physical or mental disabilities, and applicants who attended a Hungarian language primary or secondary school or university either in Hungary or in another state are exempt from the exam requirement."

Here's the thing, and if this is cheating, I don't care: I have two children, who would also technically qualify for simplified naturalization as they are my natural born children and therefore also descendants of Hungarians.  Could my children (ages 7 and 5) apply for naturalization, and then I somehow become naturalized after my children do? 

I'm only thinking this way because I am terrified of being humiliated while speaking my basic Hungarian in front of what I imagine to be a firing squad of people who want to deny what I feel my family deserves.  My heritage is very important to me, and I want it to be important to my children as well.  Hungarian is quite intimidating.

If anyone has any insight to this, please share. 
Thank you

Hello.  Similar case. You have to learn basic intermediate as well as your children.  No way around it. They can't pass onto parent.
3 months of study re memorizing your CV is a great start.  Your comment re history etc not applicable for simplified naturalization.

Don't confuse naturalization vs simplified naturalization.

Not sure what country you are now a citizen of. I am an American and my husband and son are both HU citizens. Husband born in Hungary and son became a citizen around 20 years ago.
it not matter when I was applying for a resident permit to live in HU with my husband of nearly 40 years.
You can not get citizenship through your children.
My grandmother was born in 1898 in Austria -Hungary, later became part of Poland where my father was born.
I have second cousins and a great aunt who are HU citizen, so and husband who are HU citizens but I was still given 90 days to leave HU. Finally worked out they found papers at immigration that were misfiled.
There is no way I want to be a HU citizen, just want the right to live with my husband since he wanted to come home.
Ok, now, 5 year  resident permit, not sure if they will throw me out when it expires or what.
They do not seem to like Americans much at immigration services in Budapest.
They way they handled my papers at immigration  in Budapest I could of easily been given 90 days to leave my family, they do not care about breaking up families, just want the proper papers.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

......
You can not get citizenship through your children.
....

I think that is possible in HU  but I think the child has to be a minor.   


I could get HU citizenship myself through being married to a HU citizen and passing the language test. But I've never bothered I cannot see what advantage it would be for me.  Might even be a disadvantage.