Starbucks Bankruptcy in Brazil

People at the malls are lining up at the local Starbucks.  So it isn't for lack of retail customers they are suffering.

Looks like they operated through a Master Franchisee wich is often the case.  In the US, all  Starbucks Stores are company owned. 

This is what happens when they want to skirt the local labor laws and delegate your operation to third parties. They often ruin the brand reputation. 

If you ask me, it is well deserved in the way they treat labor Stateside.  They had it coming.   And since the cat is out of the bag....   With their margins ( your average cup of Joe grosses 1,000% before overhead ), there will be plenty of takers for running a me too  coffee shop.

What they do isn't a big secret. 

Starbucks (I can comment on the UK and Indonesia) is, in my most humble opinion, a place for twits to drink coffee.

Again, IMMHO, it's overpriced and not that great.

They created a brand image that caters for yuppies, but they don;t have much to back up their market position.

I can find better coffee, a better atmosphere, and better food in a lot of other place - and pay a lot less than I do in Starbucks. I stopped using the places ages ago except when emergency caffeine is required and nothing else is open.

As for why they went bust in your corner of the world - I have absolutely no idea.

    People at the malls are lining up at the local Starbucks.  So it isn't for lack of retail customers they are suffering.
Looks like they operated through a Master Franchisee wich is often the case.  In the US, all  Starbucks Stores are company owned. 

This is what happens when they want to skirt the local labor laws and delegate your operation to third parties. They often ruin the brand reputation. 

If you ask me, it is well deserved in the way they treat labor Stateside.  They had it coming.   And since the cat is out of the bag....   With their margins ( your average cup of Joe grosses 1,000% before overhead ), there will be plenty of takers for running a me too  coffee shop.

What they do isn't a big secret. 
   

    -@sprealestatebroker

Yep, the independent franchising model does not seem to work well in Brazil. 

1). The  product offerings do not appear to appeal to the local market.  The price / benefit ratio is not attractive.

2). The independent franchising business model deployed in Brazil does not appear favorable to the franchisees.   Not sure whether employee training is lacking or is too expensive.  Without properly trained and incentivized employees, the product (coffee) will not be exceptional.

Cannot wait to taste the Brazil coffee...

Thank you for the feedback.

Oh, and btw, the gross margin was given to me by a graveyard shift manager at the local Dunkin Donuts right outside Boston.  1000% markup on COGS. 

Little wonder they pushed other coffee beverages ( iced coffee as example ).  The pastries brought in a 30% gross.

Back then I had a better cup and roast by Providence's East Side, where they actually roasted their beans under your sight.

Independents, when they care about their craft, do a hell of a lot better cup of coffee.  And the decor is always unique. 

@Pablo888 Well you saved me a lot of writing. My wife and I created Aqui Brazilian Coffee in Maryland which we operated for 4 years as a Brazilian Coffee house. Their was a Starbucks not too far away. Knowing a little bit about how Starbucks operates it would be a really big uphill climb for any company to try to create a Starbuck's in Brazil, based on what most people commonly think of a Starbucks. Just building the Starbucks (on a corner on the "going to work" side of the street, next to a grocery store or dry cleaners for people on the way home to pop in on.) There are many details to a Starbucks that would be hard for a company not part of the actual Starbucks team to know about. i.e. seeing a Starbucks with lot´s of people inside does not matter since it is a relatively small amount for the product which makes it´s money by the volume of people going thru the cashiers vs. the number of people seated at the tables.

Roddie in Retirement

12/18/23  Cannot wait to taste the Brazil coffee...     -@Pablo888

Brazil grows thousands of tons of coffee, a lot of it quite good and readily available, but whether you're disappointed or pleasantly surprised will depend on setting rather modest expectations upfront. 

The standard, almost universally available Brazilian "cafezinho" is a demitasse of thick, strong, bitter coffee, more often Robusta than Arabica, overloaded with sugar right in the serving vessel so there's little or no chance of moderating the sweetness.  In olden days it used to be served in a small china cup. and was often freshly made.  Nowadays, it's much more often self-serve in a little plastic cup from a thermos bottle that was filled that morning.

The usual way that coffee is sold to consumers and restaurants is very finely ground, almost dust, and it's brewed through a quick pass of hot water through a conical filter.  Great for a quick caffeine hit.  In convenience stores and midlevel and lower supermarkets, that's usually the only way you can buy coffee.

The best coffee you're probably going to get is the coffee you brew at home.  You can get whole-bean coffee at higher quality supermarkets.  it's marketed as "Espresso", but it's not really.  It's just good whole-bean coffee.  That's all we drink.  My husband's family thinks that grinding one's own coffee is an amusing eccentricity.  You can get Arabica whole-bean, although much of that is still exported.  For the past ten or twenty years, the Brazilian Agriculture Ministry has been doing interesting and successful work with coffee growers, especially in Espírito Santo, to develop Robusta varieties that have qualities similar to Arabica.  The Capixabas have flooded the domestic market, and improved the locally available product in the process.

You can get coffee mills here, but if you have one you like, throw it in your suitcase and bring it along.

@abthree, thank you for the coffee suggestions.

I totally expect smooth coffee and even sweet coffee.  Brazil has a good tradition of coffee and sugar.

I am planning on staying in Copa by Posto 5, any recommendation for a good coffee shop I should visit?

Drinking coffees between caipirinhas is a great way to develop a taste of the region.

I agree with the above - very agree.

Local coffees involve hanging aound in local coffee shops, and that's a great way of learning how things work in any given country.

Starbucks is all well and good for the yuppie crowd, but those who want to really understand more than just the coffee - get local ... and it's going to be way cheaper.

I nipped out of the office a little earlier - directly to a local shop that is about 6 times cheaper than Starbucks, but better coffee with great local company who actually chat with you rather than stare down at their laptops.

I hope it's the same in your point on this little blue and green ball.

    @abthree, I am planning on staying in Copa by Posto 5, any recommendation for a good coffee shop I should visit?Drinking coffees between caipirinhas is a great way to develop a taste of the region.        -@Pablo888

I wish I could help you, but I live in Amazonia, and don't spend much time in Copacabana at all.  Some people here do, though, and I hope will respond.

Alternating coffee and caipirinhas sounds like a delightful way to balance the sweetness!  😂

I will make one recommendation, though, if you'd like to spend a couple of unforgettable  hours in the Rio de Janeiro of the Belle Epoque:  lunch at the the Restaurante Cristóvão on the upper floor of Confeitaria Colombo, Gonçalves Dias 32, Centro (only that one, not the Copacabana branch, although that's nice in its own way).  Every upper or middle class Carioca I know has a story about his or her grandmother bringing them there as a child, usually at Christmastime.   I go there whenever I'm in Rio, and would never really be surprised to see the Baron of Rio Branco walk in straight from 1902.

It might be a little too crowded during Carnaval, but it can wait for another visit -- it's been there since 1894.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confeitaria_Colombo

I will make one recommendation, though, if you'd like to spend a couple of unforgettable  hours in the Rio de Janeiro of the Belle Epoque:  lunch at the the Restaurante Cristóvão on the upper floor of Confeitaria Colombo, Gonçalves Dias 32, Centro (only that one, not the Copacabana branch, although that's nice in its own way).  Every upper or middle class Carioca I know has a story about his or her grandmother bringing them there as a child, usually at Christmastime.   I go there whenever I'm in Rio, and would never really be surprised to see the Baron of Rio Branco walk in straight from 1902.

It might be a little too crowded during Carnaval, but it can wait for another visit -- it's been there since 1894.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confeitaria_Colombo-@abthree

@abthree, I will definitely look for this place.  I actually like crowds.  Last September, my wife and I unknowingly booked a long weekend in NOLA and this coincided with the regular annual pride parade there.  It was interesting / tiring to experience 18 hr / day parties.

But I agree, it will take way more than 1 trip to Rio to get the full flavor of the place.  Buzios is also another place that I would love to go to - and try "Chez Michou" crepes and learn what the rage is all about....

Brazil is a big and beautiful country and I can't wait to explore all the nooks and crannies - including the Amazonias... so be ready for my future visit.

What a shame! I'm a big fan of Starbucks. There isn't one here in Americana, the nearest one is in Hortolandia. If they were to open one closer, I'd definitely become a frequent customer. I haven't found any coffee shops here that are comfortable enough to sit for long hours and work on my laptop

"I will make one recommendation, though, if you'd like to spend a couple of unforgettable  hours in the Rio de Janeiro of the Belle Epoque:  lunch at the the Restaurante Cristóvão on the upper floor of Confeitaria Colombo, Gonçalves Dias 32, Centro (only that one, not the Copacabana branch, although that's nice in its own way).    @abthree "

Now, that's an idea worth posting. 

Also, in Sao Paulo, by the Copan building, there is a decent cup of coffee, it's at the Café Floresta, by the over ages.  Most honest cup of coffee, export grade beans.   Not a place to pop your laptop, owner is on hand  and he is a nonsense type of guy with little tolerance to hipsters. 

The coffee poured there is precisely the one the Cofffe Grower exports .   Not a whole lot on pastries, and fluff, this is a strictly a coffee counter bar, where you sip yours standing by the counter. 

@sprealestatebroker

Given the richness of your knowledge base in the coffee culture, yes, you should start a separate thread.  It would benefit everyone to know where to enjoy good coffee with good company.

@roddiesho can also share about the business side of coffee.

Who knows, those coffee shops could become potential expat meeting locations?

    What a shame! I'm a big fan of Starbucks. There isn't one here in Americana, the nearest one is in Hortolandia. If they were to open one closer, I'd definitely become a frequent customer. I haven't found any coffee shops here that are comfortable enough to sit for long hours and work on my laptop
   

    -@martinsan

When I saw the article, I thought just the same. "How can Starbucks fail in Brazil?".  However, after digging more into the subject, it appears that the "sit for long hours and work on my laptop" is not the habit of the locals.  Don't get me wrong, I love doing just this - mostly online with others rather than being physically with the people in the coffee shop.

When I was in NOLA, I went to a local coffee shop and I noticed that there were very few people on their laptops but engaged in discussions - and they were all looking at one another rather than the screen.

I am not sure but this seems to be one of the things absent in Starbucks.

Just my speculation right now - and that's why I want to go to the coffee shops that @abthree, @sprealestatebroker, and hopefully the Carioca @gasparzhino recommend to find out.

The equivalent to Starbucks in Brazil is Fran's Cafe.  All stores are franchised.  And then, there are other stores.

Fran;s Cafe stores offer wi-fi, are lightly decorated.  And then, Ice Cream Parlors are getting into the game themselves.    Fran's is pricey, but the ambience is what Brazzers go for.

Basically, anyone can run a coffee shop, and from the outset, it would look as if the market was saturated.  Hence Starbucks demise. Short of any financial misdeed ( it happens everywhere ), my guess, they were victms of their own success. 

However, the unique experience of grabbing your bag of choice roasted, or sipping the coffee of the day, roasted right behind the counter, in front of your yes, poured by some artsy college coed , with stacks of several varieties of beans in front of you to choose from, no one has it out here.   

I am using, as frame of reference, The Coffee Exchange at 207 Wickenden St, Providence, RI 02903

It features...

*Beans stacked into subsets with different varieties of coffee.

*A legit industrial sized roaster behind the counter. In use at all times.

*A mural post for apartment rentals, band playing local gigs, invites for reads, that sort of stuff.

*Free newspapers, updated daily

*Your choice of sweeteners ( cactus, honey, brown sugar, etc )

*An outside deck for the summer

*Great tunes played in low volume

*Some artsy fartsy College Coed taking the order behind the counter. Several of them btw ( RISD is right around the block )

*Wooden tables and chairs scattered around the hardwood floor

*Always, always, a awning in front with your incandescent lights against the signage.

@sprealestatebroker  Feedback from looking around North California...

*Beans stacked into subsets with different varieties of coffee.

-- The original Peets in Berkeley used to have this. Not any more.

*A legit industrial sized roaster behind the counter. In use at all times.

-- Not in Starbucks or Peets but in small individual coffee shops like the Los Gatos Roasting Company.

*A mural post for apartment rentals, band playing local gigs, invites for reads, that sort of stuff.

-- Not in Starbucks or Peets but in small independent coffee shops.

*Free newspapers, updated daily

-- I have not seen that in a coffee shop in a long time.

*Your choice of sweeteners ( cactus, honey, brown sugar, etc )

-- Starbucks and Peets used to have this but with cutbacks, you are lucky to get brown sugar packets.

*An outside deck for the summer

-- That's more Peets rather than Starbucks.

*Great tunes played in low volume

-- Starbucks used to promote artists by giving away free online songs - not any more.

*Some artsy fartsy College Coed taking the order behind the counter. Several of them btw ( RISD is right around the block )

-- I am not sure that having an artsy fartsy training is a requirement to get good coffee - but I imagine that you are referring to very outgoing persons.  Starbucks and Peets staff wear uniforms and I cannot make a distinction here.

*Wooden tables and chairs scattered around the hardwood floor

-- I have noticed that Starbucks and Peets seem to have fewer of those.  I estimate that only 10 -15 people can be seated at max.  Independent coffee shops tend to be larger.

*Always, always, a awning in front with your incandescent lights against the signage.

-- I am stumped here.  Why is an awning in front of a sign significant?  The signs can withstand the weather and operate correctly.

@sprealestatebroker, if I understand correctly, the coffee shops in Brazil have a more individual ownership feeling rather than a chain store.  May be the large Brazilian chain coffee shops are private individually owned franchisee.

By the way that you describe it, you bring me back to my experience of Peets when it was 25 years ago - when meeting for coffee was to see others and be seen by others.

Thank you for the trip down memory lane.

The Coffee Song - Frank Sinatra

"Way down among Brazilians

Coffee beans grow by the billions

So they've got to find those extra cups to fill

They've got an awful lot of coffee in Brazil.....

Why they put coffee in the coffee in Brazil...."

    By Bob Hilliard / Dick Miles

I'm from Wisconsin. Coffee (in the 1950s-90s) in WI was horrible stuff that looked no different than tea. I never drank coffee until I came to Brazil for the first time in 1981. It was a S. American tour (Peru, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay & Brazil) all overland. On a long stretch from Montevideo to Rio the bus made a quick stop at the Itu (SP) station where my friend ordered coffee for the both of us. The preheated espresso cups (in boiling water) were filled with pre-sweetened rich black coffee (espresso). It was my first ever enjoyable cup of coffee.

In 1984 I was back and spent a year in Santos. Again, Frank Sinatra:

"No tea or tomato juice

You'll see no potato juice

The planters down in Santos all say no no no

The politician's daughter

Was accused of drinking water

And was fined a great big fifty dollar bill

They've got an awful lot of coffee in Brazil

You date a girl and find out later

She smells just like a percolator

Her perfume was made right on the grill

Why they could percolate the ocean in Brazil...."

Santos was the center of most Brazilian coffee export and the southeast (Rio, MG, SP) was the center of that production (except: a rail line was built to Bananeiras Paraiba in the 1920s to meet the needs of the 1850s+ coffee production from that area, a leading producer for a very short time). Anyhow, I refined my taste for coffees in the port area of Santos where there were once many coffee houses. Santos has the original "Bolsa Oficial de Café" which has recently been converted to a museum. I'm not sure how it is today but in the 80s-90s the smell of roasted coffee wafted through the air all around Santos.

I never found Starbucks very interesting. Chain-store coffee is just too much hype for me.

mberigan

The odd part is that Americans picked up the whole coffee savoring at a coffee shop experience with Italians, not Brazilians. 

Coffee in Brazil has always been an afterthought.  You get a free half glass cup after a meal at your local lunch counter.  Filtered coffee, not pressed, there is.   

The culture of coffee shops was non existent, just about less than 20 years ago.

Answering to Pablo 888  "*Always, always, a awning in front with your incandescent lights against the signage. "   

This is more of a building and signage  issue than a coffee operation issue. Awnings provide for shade, an inviting environ, and eliminate the cacophony of ugly signage that screams in front of many storefronts in Brazilian densest urbes.  They abuse of plastic.

On the Brazilian typical cityscape, there aren't many strip malls,. power centers, where you can have your freestanding store in the middle of the vast parking lot, as you will see often in American exurbs and "lookalike stroads" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad

Since most retail storefront in Brazil's large metros is curbside, some free standing, some beneath mid rises, having a cleaner and inviting  look translates into a better curbside appeal.  And better curbside appeal is the merchant's best friend anywhere in the world.

@sprealestatebroker, makes sense.  Thank you for the explanation.

I have no idea if this a factor or not, but it seems they have been having problems in the states with labour disputes and something to do with Gaza.

I'm unsure exactly what's what, or if has anything to do with your local places, but big losses in the home country might well cause problems elsewhere.

I am curious to know if the "Gaza Protests" exist in Brazil. As far as Starbucks, it is basically a franchise model trying to do what The original Starbucks created in America. It was never a winning formula.

Roddie in Retirement

    I am curious to know if the "Gaza Protests" exist in Brazil. As far as Starbucks, it is basically a franchise model trying to do what The original Starbucks created in America. It was never a winning formula.Roddie in Retirement-@roddiesho

I took a moment to look. Seems war based protests have nothing to do with much outside the US, nd even that appears to be a very limited number of 'activists'.

It looks a lot less political, and a lot more like a rejection of Starbuck's business concept, and maybe price against quality.

Regardless of where you are from, and where you choose to live, I strongly recommend visiting local coffee shops.

Apart from commonly getting better coffee at a non-ridiculous price, expats get the chance to mix with locals and get to know their destination country a little better.

https://gizmodo.com/starbucks-app-vicio … 1851136820

Here we go again. This is one reason I never use loyalty cards. or have membership cards for any shop.

On Dec 29 Starbucks posted the following:

"Our position remains unchanged. Starbucks stands for humanity. We condemn violence, the loss of innocent life and all hate and weaponized speech.

Despite false statements spread through social media, we have no political agenda.  We do not use our profits to fund any government or military operations anywhere – and never have. "

-----Seems the Gaza/Starbucks thing was just one of those nasty little Internet burps------

Now - Back to Starbucks Bankruptcy in Brazil.........

Just how silly is it that some company could try to outdo something that this place [Brazil] has already pretty much perfected? I'm no Starbucks fan for a number of reasons, one of them being that it seems like a lot of hype to me, but even my most ardent Starbucks fan-friends, when they come to Brazil they don't want to stop at the airport Starbucks place.

But I do recognize the fickle nature of Brazilians that prefer to order "Caffè latte" instead of Café com Leite or "Caffé Mocha" (in honor of Mohka, Yemen - 16th century coffee trade point) instead of what it is, Café com Leite com Chocolate (which, by the way, was introduced by the Italians). Those Brazilians forget their origins!!

Back to Frank Sinatra:

"Why they put coffee in the coffee in Brazil...."

I once had the honor of having a Café com Leite com Chocolate made for me at CEPLAC, the Brazilian research center for chocolate production just upstream from Ilhéus....... made of Brazilian coffee and Brazilian chocolate and I can say that Starbucks has nothing to offer that can compare. Obviously, other beverages are other beverages and each corner of this world has its own variation. If I were to visit Turkey I'm sure I wouldn't visit a Starbucks. Same for Italy.

If you're ever in the northeast and want to try "boutique" coffee shop with Brazilian products, the Café São Braz chain has locations in AL, PB, PE, PI, RGN & SE. I'm sure every region has its own regional chain.

So here's my question (let's see if Starbucks offers this one): Has anyone on Expat tried the [in]famous Café do Jacú? It is the most expensive coffee in Brazil. Look it up!!

well seeing as starbucks is still reeling in from a 12 billion net loss just in the last few weeks in usa alone. I am not sure they are going to recover from that, financially or morally as they tried to sue their employee for doing that lol.

Brazil coffee has always been a good,

Regional chains we have sao braz, santa clara, delta espresso ( does a normal italian capuchino without the chocolate added )

all have been an overall better experience in terms of in house sitting and blends of coffee by far in comparison with starbucks. Tried the starbucks at GRU, much to my dissapointment I found casa do pao de queijo chain much later waiting for my connecting flight so I threw away the starbucks lol

1. i haven't heard about Gaza protests in Brazil.  And by the way..... The Palestinians are coming. My neck of the woods, I am seeing more of them. Maybe I should pick up on Arabic.  Palestinians and Syrians. And the occasional Egyptian . 
2. Specialty Coffees. It's great, but remember, unless you can roast you own and bag a lot of take home ones, ( the money, btw, is on the pouring of that cup of Joe ) you can't make it on margins.  Got to stick to a what you can store and turn.
3. Why Starbucks tanked in Brazil. Not a single clue. My educated guess, the place is built for hipsters.  Even the local chains or franchised units take Starbucks to  task.  The typical Starbucks is dark, dour, not a whole lot of options on the menu. it might be cool, but it does not appeal to most everyone.
4. Sitting on the laptop kills time, but does not translate into more orders. There is a reason why Dunkin Donuts stores do not allow for wi-fi broadband.  Every seat on the store, at peak time, might be a premium. And most of D&D orders are take out orders.
5. Notice D&D has more options on the bakery side, breakfast sandwiches,  Baskin Robbins, Cool Drinks. People can only order so much out of the "Cafe du Jour" . 

Pouring coffee ain't rocket science.  Maybe the roasting.  The demise of Starbucks comes to no surprise.

@Fred I am very grateful that you did the research. It was a small question I had in the back of my mind every time I see stories about US Protests on American TV.

Of course, you may not know I am one of the extreme outliers on EXPAT.COM / Brazil. I live in a small village of about 2,500 about 20 minutes south of Jericoacoara in Northeastern Brazil. We are still waiting for our first Stop Sign, so Coffee Shops are a little ways off. Just to let you know how remote we are. The local Police and Fire Station are 2hours away and my next door neighbor raises Bulls and the one across the street raises Chickens. Horses are down the block.

Roddie in Retirement

   
i haven't heard about Gaza protests in Brazil.  And by the way..... The Palestinians are coming.  My neck of the woods, I am seeing more of them. Maybe I should pick up on Arabic.  Palestinians and Syrians. And the occasional Egyptian . 
Specialty Coffees.  It's great, but remember, unless you can roast you own and bag a lot of take home ones, ( the money, btw, is on the pouring of that cup of Joe ) you can't make it on margins.  Got to stick to a what you can store and turn.
Why Starbucks tanked in Brazil.  Not a single clue. My educated guess, the place is built for hipsters.  Even the local chains or franchised units take Starbucks to  task.  The typical Starbucks is dark, dour, not a whole lot of options on the menu. it might be cool, but it does not appeal to most everyone.
Sitting on the laptop kills time, but does not translate into more orders.  There is a reason why Dunkin Donuts stores do not allow for wi-fi broadband.  Every seat on the store, at peak time, might be a premium. And most of D&D orders are take out orders.
Notice D&D has more options on the bakery side, breakfast sandwiches,  Baskin Robbins, Cool Drinks. People can only order so much out of the "Cafe du Jour" . 

Pouring coffee ain't rocket science.  Maybe the roasting.  The demise of Starbucks comes to no surprise.
   

    -@sprealestatebroker

I started this thread mainly because I had a gut feeling that Brazilians would discover a "cheat" in the coffee business.  This suspicion is confirmed by all the long term expats in Brazil - that Starbucks coffee is low grade beans.

I have never liked Starbucks (I am more of a Peet's purist) because I have a friend who was trained as gourmet chef in Paris and worked for a short time at Starbucks - to purchase coffee beans.  And I was surprised to learn that profitability for Starbucks is simply buying the cheapest (and even reject) beans and be creative in the roasting process and finally marketing the hell out of the end product.  The US public was only too stupid to know the difference between a smooth French Roast and what is served at Starbucks.

IMHO, good riddance of Starbucks in Brazil.  Hope that the general public will ask more quality of the Starbucks products.

Just to stay on topic here (and not attempting to make any references to any on-going conflict here), Starbucks was replaced by its "clone" in Russia.  Has anyone tasted the coffee from the "clone"?  If the coffee tastes the same, this would be a confirmation that the success is basically roasting machines and marketing rather than an excellent input product.

    @Fred I am very grateful that you did the research. It was a small question I had in the back of my mind every time I see stories about US Protests on American TV.
Of course, you may not know I am one of the extreme outliers on EXPAT.COM / Brazil. I live in a small village of about 2,500 about 20 minutes south of Jericoacoara in Northeastern Brazil. We are still waiting for our first Stop Sign, so Coffee Shops are a little ways off. Just to let you know how remote we are. The local Police and Fire Station are 2hours away and my next door neighbor raises Bulls and the one across the street raises Chickens. Horses are down the block.

Roddie in Retirement

   That place sounds like heaven. I lived in a tiny village for a couple of years. Stress is something other people experience when you reside in such places.

A few of the neighbours had chickens, several grew chilli plants,  and loads ran tiny farms. Pineapples, bananas, and lots of other stuff grew wild so anyone could take them for free.

I lived on around 100 USD/month. You hardly needed money at all.

Local kids would climb coconut trees and knock you a couple down for a thousand Rupiah (16,000 to 1 USD)

It looks like the US stuff is pretty much limited to the US, maybe the UK as well, but has zero direct effect anywhere else.

In your position, I think I would open a little coffee shop. Not for the profit, more as a community centre.

My educated guess, the place is built for hipsters.

I started this thread mainly because I had a gut feeling that Brazilians would discover a "cheat" in the coffee business.  This suspicion is confirmed by all the long term expats in Brazil - that Starbucks coffee is low grade beans.

    -@Pablo888

The last Starbucks I had will remain the last.

I was in a shopping centre so choices were limited.

There was a kids' party in the J.Co, and all the others hadn't opened, so I tried Starbucks- It was rubbish.

I can't comment on the beans, but I can, with some experience based authority, comment on the taste.

My lady wife wants to drop in on her mother so I will do my usual coffee hunt. I will have my serious tablet, and I will work, but the coffee house I'll be in is a local place made out of bamboo.

Apart from very nice coffee, the place looks out over fields, and everyone is really friendly. The nice selection of light food is a bonus.

Upon retirement, my wife wants to open a little preschool, but I want to have a little coffee shop. The two will compliment each other as many parents hang around near schools waiting for thir kids.

So they cheat out on the beans, and make up on roasting.....  |interesting.

I wonder what this "Fair Trade" is all about. Maybe marketing hype.  At least I got a kick of  watching the Juan Valdez Commercials., the Colombian Coffee Trade Association  had a nifty idea to promote their brand ( Colombian Coffee sucked for my taste buds ). 

So it is all about ambiance and cheating on the roasting. Got it.  Reminds me there are other chains, Caribou, being a popular one in Minnesota.

Still, flavor has to do in part with the sucess of a chain.

I remember when they wanted to introduce the Krispy Kream Donuts ( whose fresh fried doughnuts were a treat ). Well,  Krispy Kream Corporate  used a Master Franchisee in New England, the one who carried all Burger Kind Stores in New England , Janco, out of Cranston RI. 

Well, the two brand new Krispy Kreme Stores ( Cranston,RI and Revere, MA ) failed miserably.  The Doughnut production was such a show, with all that conveyor system seen through the glass, pristine stores, they were giving away free samples.     Yet, the coffee was horrible, maybe the very reason they did not make. 

Little Krispy Kream  Corporate folks knew, D&D Stores dumped a lot of unsold doughnuts at the end of the shirft, right down to the garbage bins.   You could not find cops enough to take that junk away. 

Maybe marketing hype.

    -@sprealestatebroker

Starbucks, Coca-Cola, McD, the rest.

All crappie, and more than a few dangerously unhealthy, but all seen in a positive light because of slick advertising.

People are incredibly dumb.