Getting the legal approval of a building to a dwelling.

No experience with this but if it only costs 10,000 Forints for the owner to get it done then why not just have him take care of it before you buy?
It would be the smart move on the owners part to get it done before selling the property.
I know we always get even a old used car smogged and in order before we sell it to make it more appealing to any potential buyer, to prove there is nothing seriously wrong with the car. Buying land and homes is allot more valuable then a used car so make them get the paperwork done first to make everything clear and legal.
Otherwise you could be buying a headache for yourself.
I'd even give him the 10,000 F if they are so cheap about it.
That's less then $50.,worth it if you really want the place that badly.
If they don't take care of it then I would probably walk away from the "deal". Could be other reasons they want to unload the property that they are not telling you about.

dougzies wrote:

Our lawyer said that the process of getting it assessed as a dwelling is just paying someone 10,000Ft to come out and look at it.

Any change of land code (i.e. allowed number of residential dwellings) or a building's use status would require a local government property office approval. So not so simple as implied. The building status might be able to be changed, but Marilyn is correct -- if it was really that easy, the property owner would do it. Somethings does not seem right about this deal.

And, yes, the locals will happily scam a foreign buyer. I think at times it is a national sport (but to their defense, many here have also been scammed by a lot of foreigners as well, especially soon after the "wall fell". So tit-for-tat, and all's fair in love and property purchases).

Honestly, there are FAR too many "just" stories people will tell you here in Hungary. Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. Yes, even from lawyers. (Sometimes, especially from lawyers).

So, if something is not in writing, signed by all parties, witnessed, and notarized, what someone "just" tells you is often worthless.

P.S. Your expat path says you speak Hungarian -- Then I suggest you go to the local land office and ask if the house status can be changed, and what is the procedure to do so, etc. You do not have to "own" the property to get information, especially if this is part of property sale issue (even if the clerk says otherwise, press your rights).

That is great info.
I mentioned this to my husband and he also said the land management should come in handy for more info.
I do know in Hungary many people know inside and out every legal loop-hole and trick in the book, be careful or you may be biting off more then you planned on.
It would be interesting to know a ball park figure for the property since you mentioned it is in the Budapest area.
If something around there is too cheap then they are hiding something because even owning a storage shed in Budapest could prove a good investment over time.

Thank you for your input and help.

I am not sure why the owner hasn't gotten it looked into to approve it as a dwelling. Maybe he is afraid it won't get the approval.
It wouldn't surprise me if the owner was being a little dodgy on matters concerning the sale of the house.
It is 37M Forint for 75sq meters in the Budafok area so its not too out of the range of normal pricing.
The lawyer is actually a friend so I would trust what she says since she and my wife (who is Hungarian) have been friends for a few years. Otherwise I wouldn't usually trust lawyers.
We did call the Realtor and we told him what the lawyer said and he seemed surprised that there is action that can be taken. Plus I don't think he was expecting a lawyer to be contacted.

Sounds like a fair price but considering how much money that is the seller should have it in order for you just to make the deal sweeter if not just to do the right thing.
Good price for a house but a bit pricey if it doesn't have papers to make it more then a storage area.
It is to the sellers advantage to sell the property in the best light.
Really could be something going on they do not wish to disclose.
It is a major investment so you should be sure everything is done the right way to give you peace of mind before signing on the dotted line.
Good to have friends willing to help out, if there are too many loose ends and you don't feel good about how everything is being handled, I'd walk away and look for something else.
Good luck and keep us posted.

If it isnt classified as a house, then that is because it isnt allowed.

Different areas of the city are zoned differently. Downtown areas can have insane land usage percentages (so a building can occuply eg. 90% of the property area), while the suburbs (like Budafok) might have 20% or 30% zoning. If that property is classified as a storage house, that is because the house proper occupies the max allowed land area. Simply put, there is no way to reclassify it as a dwelling (a building where you live), as the moment you try to do it, the city will send out the demolition notification.

You can try to reclassify it as a "summer kitchen" (nyári konyha), which is a semi-livable structure. A dwelling supports permanent living, a summer kitchen is considered unlivable in the winter, as it is unheated.

PS. Do not invite a city official to examine the storage house. If the person reclassifies it as a dwelling, you will have to demolish it.

Rawlee wrote:

If it isnt classified as a house, then that is because it isnt allowed.

Different areas of the city are zoned differently. Downtown areas can have insane land usage percentages (so a building can occuply eg. 90% of the property area), while the suburbs (like Budafok) might have 20% or 30% zoning. If that property is classified as a storage house, that is because the house proper occupies the max allowed land area. Simply put, there is no way to reclassify it as a dwelling (a building where you live), as the moment you try to do it, the city will send out the demolition notification.

You can try to reclassify it as a "summer kitchen" (nyári konyha), which is a semi-livable structure. A dwelling supports permanent living, a summer kitchen is considered unlivable in the winter, as it is unheated.

PS. Do not invite a city official to examine the storage house. If the person reclassifies it as a dwelling, you will have to demolish it.

This is good advice for sure.
looks like the property is over priced if it is not going to be allowed to be a home.
Many years ago before they  built their real home on their land my in-laws built a temp. weekend house on the land, they would come over every weekend while still working in the city.
They planted their garden and got things in order to start building their perm. retirement house.
They built a tiny house but because even back in the 1970's they had not yet gotten permission to built a house on the land.
They had a fully functioning tiny home for the weekends but had to put bricks and boards in the windows to make it look like just a shed for storage.
Later they got all permits and contracting help to build their legit home.
My MIL also bought a large lot of property near by for her 3 children.
Over the years because my husband had left HU, his siblings took over and built 2 homes on the land, they didn't leave any room for my husband to ever build anything on the land.
Basically they shut him out of his share of property.
Building codes that are legal are very strict in Hungary although looking at some places makes one think that might not always be the case. Seen some real funky looking structors over there.

dougzies wrote:

The lawyer is actually a friend so I would trust what she says since she and my wife (who is Hungarian) have been friends for a few years.

Had some great friends in my life. Who were professionally incompetent. But still liked them as a person. just did not deal with them professionally.

My wife (also Hungarian) and I went to a lawyer in Hungary when we first arrived to start a business, and that person was completely incompetent. Messed everything up so badly, we eventually had to withdraw the application.

Some years later, my wife was talking to someone who was complaining about the same lawyer, and how that lawyer had not just once, but many times completely messed up different tasks. And actually resulted in a lot of damage for this person. My wife asked why this person kept using this lawyer, if so much damage was caused. And the answer? "Because I went to school with her and she is a friend".

Cross reference the Hungarian novel "Relations" by Zsigmond Móricz

Just an anecdote.

Rezoning a piece of land is almost impossible.  I wanted to rezone my land. I'm only about 8m2 short of having enough space to change my outbuilding into a garage.  My percentage is 20% yet across the street, it's 25%.   Frustrating and expensive.  That 8m2 means I need another 40m2 of land from somewhere and that means trying to buy some from my awkward neighbour.

Anyways, if the storage area is over 10 years old and did not have permission and was built before the land was zoned it can remain. 

Our outbuilding is probably 50 years old.

But if  I attempted to knock it down and rebuild it in some way then I'd need permission and that could run foul of the built in area percentages.

I can maintain it by replacing parts like the roof but not change the ground footprint of the  building or somehow exceed the zoning land parameters.  I'd probably get away with replacing the windows without asking anyone. 

I might get away with it if I changed it and waited 10 years for default permissions but it sounds very risky.  If some official passes and sees it, then well, who knows.  Maybe a fine, or a bribe, worst case demolition.

We asked the building contractor who rebuilt our house if we could just add 8m2 onto our outbuilding on the quiet and he was adamant he  wouldn't even consider being involved it if it was outside the planning rules and would be illegal.   

Seems no way around it.