Absurdity of Looking for Work in the Philippines

@drjs

Wow. very strange rationale for giving you such low ratings when clearly you deserved the opposite of whatever they felt they gave you.

Filipno logic utterly baffles me sometimes....but  Anyway!   congrats on finally finding a role.
I'm sure this comes as a relief to you and that you're happy. 

Hoping for your long term success for you and yours.

@drjs

Wow. very strange rationale for giving you such low ratings when clearly you deserved the opposite of whatever they felt they gave you.

Filipno logic utterly baffles me sometimes....but  Anyway!   congrats on finally finding a role.
I'm sure this comes as a relief to you and that you're happy. 

Hoping for your long term success for you and yours.

- @kristopherryanwatson

@willTol

This really is your best option.  The sooner you can find an International company that is looking for someone with your skill set to fill a position to fill, the better.

Ironically, such companies are quicker at hiring and onboarding talent than local Filipino businesses are. 
as with most thing in this country, there is an abhorrent unnecessary amount  of redtape !

@willTol
Out of curiosity, what sites are you using to look for work in the Philippines and how many jobs are you applying for a day?

Do you hold a visa permitting you to work in the Philippines? If you don't, you have very little chance of getting a job as the company would have to prove that a Filipino couldn't do the job and would have to pay money to sponsor you. If you are willing, you can offer to pay this fee to increase your chances of employment. However, you will still need to overcome the barrier of the employer having to prove that they couldn't hire a Filipino for the position.

The main sources I used to find work in the Philippines were Indeed and JobStreet. I was applying for 15-20 jobs a day on average. The main search term I used was 'English', in order to find roles that required English speakers.

The vast majority of my interviews came through Indeed. I got very few interviews through JobStreet. In my experience, it appears that the majority of companies that post jobs on JobStreet are unwilling to hire foreigners.

As suggested by others in this thread, I applied for jobs I found through Facebook groups and Craigslist as well. While I managed to get an interview for every single job via those sources, all of the interviewers were beyond terrible at their jobs and I didn't make it past the first interview for any of them. I only applied for a few jobs via those sources though, so it's hard to say whether or not this is the norm.

For the first month, I was tweaking my CV on a daily basis based on the feedback from the jobs I was applying for. The more I tweaked my CV, the more interviews I got. I found that the following worked:

1) You need to make it clear that you aren't Filipino. Ideally, this should be mentioned in the first sentence of your CV after your contact details. If you don't mention this, you might find that your time is being wasted as companies that refuse to hire foreigners may approach you. Even with this in your CV, you will still have your time wasted a lot though as a lot of recruiters don't bother reading CVs and appear to pick candidates based on their names alone.

2) If you hold a visa permitting you to work in the Philippines, this MUST be mentioned in your CV. Ideally, the sentence mentioning this should come immediately after the sentence stating your nationality. You need to make sure that you stress that, because you have this visa, the employer doesn't need to prove that a Filipino cannot do the job. If you don't mention this, it's unlikely that the recruiter will understand. I wasn't able to get a single interview until I added a sentence explaining this.

3) You may have noticed that Filipinos stick to scripts and don't know how to deviate from them. For instance, if you go to a fast food restaurant and say 'I'll have a large cheeseburger meal with Sprite', they will then ask you what drink and what size you want, even though you already gave them this information when you placed your order.

They are also unable to deviate from their 'scripts' in the hiring process. The usual method for determining a Filipino applicant's English skills is whether or not they have worked for a BPO company before. When a native English speaker applies for the role, they still consider this a necessity to prove that the native English speaker can speak English well enough to hold down a job in an English language environment.

If, by any stretch of the imagination, you can claim that a role you previously held was a BPO role, then you should add 'BPO' to your CV for this role.

4) Another thing they will look for is English qualifications. Recruiters here don't seem to understand that an English qualification for a native English speaker is completely different from an English language qualification within the Philippines.

If you don't have an English qualification, lie and say that you do. Obviously you don't want to go too far with this. For example, you shouldn't say that you have a bachelor's or a master's degree in English. However, pretending that you have a GCSE would be fine. They're unlikely to find out that you don't anyway.

As for some additional advice about roles to avoid applying for:

Call Centre/Customer Support:

If you are looking for English-speaking roles, most of the jobs you will come across will be call centre or customer support roles. It's generally a waste of time applying for these as most of them do not hire foreigners.

There are some exceptions though, so don't dismiss them all. I found that all of the main BPO companies, with the exception of Accenture, were a complete waste of time.

Companies I recall that don't hire foreigners at all are Teleperformance, GDV, ConnectUs, Neksjob, Transec, John Clements and TaskUs.

Metacom, Orbit, Aspire, Sapient, along with a few others I can't remember the names of, all appear to be the same company operating under different names. They are extremely unprofessional and are best avoided.

Lexie Consulting is another company to avoid, unless you enjoy being harassed via texts for several weeks. They won't leave you alone until you have blocked all of their numbers.

Those that do hire foreigners are extremely unprofessional. They don't know how to send e-mails via BCC, so you will be sent all of the other applicants' e-mail addresses. You will then be interviewed in front of the other candidates (even if it's via Zoom/Google Meet) and they will ask you to give out personal information such as your phone number and home address for everybody to hear.

Many of the interviewers will also make racist jokes at your expense, or will blame the presence of a foreigner in the room for causing any problems that occur.

For instance, one of the interviewers was experiencing issues with his audio. It cut out for two seconds every five seconds. The issue definitely wasn't on my end as the other applicants commented on it. The interviewer then claimed that the mere presence of 'Joe' in the meeting was causing his microphone to malfunction.

On another occasion, one of the applicants had a rooster in the background. It was making so much noise, that the interviewer couldn't hear the applicant. The interviewer said that the reason it was so noisy was that it was annoyed about seeing a 'kano' in the meeting.

ESL Teacher:

Unless you have teaching experience, or the job description states that they will hire foreigners, applying for ESL roles is generally a waste of time. Many Filipinos arrogantly believe that the average Filipino speaks English as well as native speakers. ESL roles generally receive thousands of applicants and a Filipino with teaching experience will always be picked over an inexperienced native English speaker.

On a final note, if you can find roles being advertised by companies outside of the Philippines, you will generally do much better. I have had much better success with jobs when the people interviewing me were American or British.

When a native English speaker applies for the role, they still consider this a necessity to prove that the native English speaker can speak English well enough to hold down a job in an English language environment.

- @drjs

Well. There ARE rather many born  with English as first language (as well as Swedes born with Swedish as first language) who CANT speak their first language good enough to have jobs needing that... NOT by being disabled but by accent and street langauge  - and frequent using cursing type words

Its funny when a Swede - who repeetingly get complaints about spelling and grammar from some ignorants/brats  - "need" to correct people with English as first language     to not be missleading, which is a huge difference from understandable wrong spelling...

In a SHORT text from one complainant I found FIVE errors, but I didnt bother to point that out, because that would contradict my point such arent important     (as long as it tell correct what the post mean).

Btw  I "needed" to correct a Filipino too      concerning the difference between "tabi ng" and "malapit" which are very important in real estate matters concerning such as rivers and good roads. ("Just beside" or "close to" can be huge differences even concerning law effects.)

@drjs Thanks for the solid pointers, I'll add the extra info you mentioned to my CV.

So far I have been applying via LinkedIn and Jobstreet (thanks for letting me know that its a waste of time). I'll start looking at Indeed.

@kristopherryanwatson Very true, they seems to love red taps a lot. My wife was so surprise at the amount of red tapes present the Philippines once since She lived outside the country. Sadly she still value being around her family too much, thus us moving back

@willTol
I don't think I'd go as far as saying that JobStreet is a waste of time. It's just that, in my experience, I found it to be a lot less useful than Indeed.

I applied for about 50 jobs through JobStreet over the past 3 months. I only got three interviews from all of those and, despite the fact that I met or exceeded all of the requirements, I was immediately rejected for about 15 of them as the companies didn't want to hire foreigners.

Of the three interviews I got, two of them were with Filipinos who could barely speak English. I was rejected for both roles as the interviewers felt that my English skills were too poor.

This mainly applies to BPO companies but, if you're desperate for a job, you need to dumb your English down to the interviewer's level. Glassdoor is a pretty good source for determining how you need to misuse English. You will see reviews from many employees who clearly can't speak English very well at all. They tend to make the same kind of mistakes as this is how the company's HR team thinks English is spoken.

I never bothered dumbing down my English though. I just stuck with speaking English properly until I was finally hired by a Brit.

@willTol

Hi,

since you mentioned the tech space, i would also mention Facebook groups, such as VA groups and groups around building Startups.

LinkedIn is fantastic as well, provided that you are proactive and have spent the time to really populate and take advantage of filling out all the beneficial sections on your profile, as well as participating in LinkedIn Groups if you can.  I am a member of several groups, but i rarely post anything there. I do however share numerous articles from a few preferred online sources in the tech and marketing world directly to my feed every week, and from that i see healthy engagement from those shared posts.

I am gainfully and happily employed, but i swear at least twice a week, I will have an HR person or a Director of Marketing from a Company (and not necessarily local Pinoy companies) ask me if i am interested to apply for a job opening of theirs.  in fact, i have even so far as made it to the second interview phase with quite a few companies with very little effort..and yet i'm doing this merely out of curiosity or of my own amusement, just to see what would come of my supposed candidacy for the role at hand, not because i have been in need of any new work. 

Please feel free to message me directly. perhaps i too, could share more pointers from my own experience here.

Good luck in any event!

For those seeking the BPO or whatever jobs from places like Accenture: Approximately how much money would you expect to earn? It seems like a lot of effort so the reward must be worthwhile, correct?

- @danfinn

@danfinn

Barely.

However it depends on the role.  Team Leaders and Managers can earn anywhere from 25 k - 50 k monthly.
If you're a retired Expat, then i guess you would not need much to  sustain your basic needs and expenses. but this of course would vary person to person.  especially if one would be married to a filipina and they have children to feed , for example. 

if you're just a kid and you land  a basic entry level position at a call center like Accenture, salaries start as low as 14 K a month.

@kristopherryanwatson That answers my question. No expats could live on 25K and few could live on 50k and then put in 12 hours per day, 6 days per week. Those jobs are meant for the local citizens who would actually look at 50k as reasonable compensation.- @danfinn

How many Filipinos do you know finding 50k only "reasonable compensation" ?   

I dont know the updates during recent years but I believe 25k is still common among Filipinos with needed higher education as e g highschool teachers, some more for some IT jobs.

Many Filipino families live of 7k or if "lucky" they have two in the household earnimg that.

so they would get extatic if they get a job offer paying 15k pesos

I believe some expats live of 25k.  But depend much of how many people - and if can avoid costs for family-in-law 

((If no health issues, only myself and less cost VISA type than "tourism", I wouldnt have any problem living of that in Phils myself. Beside expensive appartmenrt  - sold my house as a prepating step to move to Phils -  I spend just around that in high cost Sweden...   

@kristopherryanwatson That answers my question. No expats could live on 25K and few could live on 50k and then put in 12 hours per day, 6 days per week. Those jobs are meant for the local citizens who would actually look at 50k as reasonable compensation.- @danfinn

How many Filipinos do you know finding 50k only "reasonable compensation" ?   

I dont know the updates during recent years but I believe 25k is still common among Filipinos with needed higher education as e g highschool teachers, some more for some IT jobs.

Many Filipino families live of 7k or if "lucky" they have two in the household earnimg that.

so they would get extatic if they get a job offer paying 15k pesos

I believe some expats live of 25k.  But depend much of how many people - and if can avoid costs for family-in-law 

((If no health issues, only myself and less cost VISA type than "tourism", I wouldnt have any problem living of that in Phils myself. Beside expensive appartmenrt  - sold my house as a prepating step to move to Phils -  I spend just around that in high cost Sweden...   

-

@coach53 If we are talking about individuals, I guess the answers and comments to your questions would depend on the type of people you find yourself associating with. For people living as families, they take care of each other and some members can live on next to nothing for that reason. This discussion has nothing to do with them. But people employed by companies live in the cities, generally separated from their families in the provinces and these are the people i refer to, along with expats not supported by their GF's family😂

- @danfinn

Well.  Body workers can be employed by companies in cities too 

When the income providers earn similar bad and are few of the total earners, it dont make it much easier   

If an expat is simply living on their own, and they are single, 25K is just about 'ok' to live slightly under living comfortably aligned with Filipino standards.

If i am not mistaken, the average salary of someone living in Manila is about 50,000.

it is beneficial if one lives outside of metro manila where cost of living is considerably lower and can earn that much as their baseline to live comfortably.

however, i have never known of any expat who has been ok with such a low salary as from most instances, the expats I know have a gf or wife..and of course that comes with a whole myriad of additional expenses .

- @kristopherryanwatson

I believe you are MUCH misstaken   

I wouldnt be interested in low salary neither, but that dont mean I cant live at litle money   

((I'm not as economical as Ingvar Kamprad    (=IKEA founder) but back when I earned as most (had 70 - 115 emloyees) I spend just Swedish "excistence minimum" in average per month but had anyway condo. car, minibus, sailboat, billiard, vacation house, year card in both hockey and football, went to a lot of dances, so many realy waste a lot...))

@coach53

Foreigners to live comfortably by Filipino standards.
roughy 25 K at the very least i would imagine for living in Metro Manila  to be what they most would consider the bare minimum and content with.

You can check the current stats. 50K is the median salary for those living in Metro Manila.

- @kristopherryanwatson

I bet a lot of Filipios arent counted in a statistic saying 50k 

So NO WAY average realy can be 50k per month   

@coach53

Foreigners to live comfortably by Filipino standards.
roughy 25 K at the very least i would imagine for living in Metro Manila  to be what they most would consider the bare minimum and content with.

You can check the current stats. 50K is the median salary for those living in Metro Manila.

- @kristopherryanwatson

Whjich statistic?

I bet a lot of Filipios arent counted in a statistic saying 50k 

Manila is expected to cost double of province (and Cebu is in middle between them) thats why MINIMUM salary law show these differences. Before update minimum salary was around 7k in provinces so I suppouse 14-15 in Manila.  No minimum salary law would be needed if many employers wouldnt try to pay less... There are a lot of unemployed so no problem finding people wanting low paid employment instead of having none. There are so ,many some employers demand posthighschool exams to get simple body jobs as in storage!

BUT there are EXCEPTIONS from that minimum law. Domestic helpers minimum is around 5k (but they have exctra benifits)  and some microbusinesses (=max around 9 employees the law is fuzzy) can legaly pay much less too.  And even with these law minimums, many employers pay illegaly less...

Most BUSINESSES arent even registered and I suppouse they dont register their employees neither...

A LOT of Filipimos dont have a TIN number and without they CANT work legal, but many of them get some work anyway, but many are "employed" day by day SOME days so of course they dont earn full time.

And then there are the many UNEMPLOYED, they are suppoused to be counted in statistics too.

Many work with try to buy and sell stuff to earn anything at all.

Some survive by earning a bit by finding scrapable things among GARBAGE. In Manila too, there is the famous Smooky Mountain called so by its some burning inside that garbage mountain...  And they DONT have it worst in Phils!!! People living at Smoky Mountain but coming from provinces were offered to be transported home for free but I know at least some said No Thanks, because they had it even harder to suirvive in province.

So NO WAY average realy can be 50k per month   

@coach53

Foreigners to live comfortably by Filipino standards.
roughy 25 K at the very least i would imagine for living in Metro Manila  to be what they most would consider the bare minimum and content with.

You can check the current stats. 50K is the median salary for those living in Metro Manila.

- @kristopherryanwatson

Whjich statistic?

I bet a lot of Filipios arent counted in a statistic saying 50k 

Manila is expected to cost double of province (and Cebu is in middle between them) thats why MINIMUM salary law show these differences. Before update minimum salary was around 7k in provinces so I suppouse 14-15 in Manila.  No minimum salary law would be needed if many employers wouldnt try to pay less... There are a lot of unemployed so no problem finding people wanting low paid employment instead of having none. There are so ,many some employers demand posthighschool exams to get simple body jobs as in storage!

BUT there are EXCEPTIONS from that minimum law. Domestic helpers minimum is around 5k (but they have exctra benifits)  and some microbusinesses (=max around 9 employees the law is fuzzy) can legaly pay much less too.  And even with these law minimums, many employers pay illegaly less...

Most BUSINESSES arent even registered and I suppouse they dont register their employees neither...

A LOT of Filipimos dont have a TIN number and without they CANT work legal, but many of them get some work anyway, but many are "employed" day by day SOME days so of course they dont earn full time.

And then there are the many UNEMPLOYED, they are suppoused to be counted in statistics too.

Many work with try to buy and sell stuff to earn anything at all.

Some survive by earning a bit by finding scrapable things among GARBAGE. In Manila too, there is the famous Smooky Mountain called so by its some burning inside that garbage mountain...  And they DONT have it worst in Phils!!! People living at Smoky Mountain but coming from provinces were offered to be transported home for free but I know at least some said No Thanks, because they had it even harder to suirvive in province.

So NO WAY average realy can be 50k per month   

-

@coach53 Well as I commented before, in discussing salaries for expats and relating that to Filipinos, I meant to compare western middle class to Filipino middle class. But, if  you instead find yourself associating with body girls, the smokey mountain crowd or poor farmers, then I would expect comments such as yours' because that is your only frame of reference and I thank you for it. I was more limited to expressing that a 50k foreigner BPO position here is fine if you can get it but you will need to accept the Filipino middle class standard of living. Of course there is nothing wrong with that, I just wouldn't go through all those hoops just to end up at 50K. But by not including your friends in the lower classes I mean no offense to them. I am just comparing westerner to Filipino on a socially equivalent basis of middle class. A westerner enjoying western middle class here would need at least 75k provinces 150k manila to be as happy as a typical Filipino at 50k. I know that is an unsupported assertion and I agree, it is just my opinion.

- @danfinn

Well.   Hard to guess what you ment, I answered what you wrote   

By you didnt tell you only assosiated with Filipino middle class, I assossiated to ALL types of Filipinos EXCEPT the salaries for body girls        No way I would go to such bar.  (Although I happened to get to know one such a bit when she was visiting her family in province. She didnt suit as such, much to sensitive for such occupation.)

I know Filipinos of ALL levels except the top 10 families. So it was you who had an "only frame"   

There are many more nice people among the poor  - inspite of I dont give them any money to stop if anyone thought that 

- @gsturdee

Very good long text by you 

Tagalog natives, or those primarily from Luzon, say "po" at the end of a sentence, which has no meaning per se, but is considered good etiquette and demonstrates class. (All Filipinos speak Tagalog, but specifically those from Luzon say "po".)

- @gsturdee

The worker class say it too, perhaps more often than the rich and middle class   

Are you depending on a job in the Philippines to survive? Enjoy having Lucky Me Noodles three times a day.

Now you're surviving.

- @Enzyte Bob