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Laws ..what is that?

Wingfat
Living here and building a home here I've learned a few things about laws and such. The first is driving laws. I'm sure they have plenty of driving laws but you would never know it. Since there is NO enforcement no one gives a ..... I use to dream of a place I could drive any way I wanted... now I can! In the province there are no red lights (that work) and no stop signs. Expect to expect anything. Every time I drive it's like a video game...so far I not run into on coming traffic,, pedicabs, trikes, Jeepneys, pedestrians, motorcycles, and the kids playing in the roads that their houses are built on ( no shoulder) Their front door is literately a foot away from traffic.

The second thing has to do with general laws in the Buranguy. The Buranguy captian has the final word on all things. Right of ways are not respected and if someone builds a structure on your access you may or may not get it removed. Either way you will piss off someone and you definitely don't want to do that. If you piss off the wrong people you can get deported without much due process as an undesirable. It doesn't take much... kiss your home and wife and possibly your kids goodby. Your not getting back in once your blacklisted.
What laws have you had to deal with? What are your experiences?
See also
Lost in Fiji
Yes, all you've said is completely true Wingfat.

And, at heart, for legal problems, money talks.
GoDees
Hello Wingfat.
My experience here is that any Filipino can assault a foreigner and walk away, but if you hit a local, even in self-defence, you can start packing your bags. The law is skewed in favour of any Filipino against a foreigner, no matter the ethical rights. Laws here are to be pissed up against the wall unless you have lots  of money and connections. Justice for foreigner is absent here in the Philippines.
regards  Bruce
talamban

@Wingfat If you Piss Off the really wrong people, you won't just be deported - you will be dead. I am a Type A Personality - So, I sometimes become Over-Animated with locals. I need to correct that, so I can enjoy more retirement years.

coach53
What laws have you had to deal with? What are your experiences?
- @Wingfat
Geting a small business registered is suppoused to take 30 minutes according to Business centre own info, but it took us 5 MONTHS.  Although parts were so crazy so it became comic    1f923.svg

Businesses need AT LEAST 2 permits EVERY YEAR!!!

NOTE! Even cuting down ONE own tree to make space for building, need permit!

But a GOOD things  1f44d.svg Construction at "Agricultural" classified land DONT NEED any permit.
coach53

@Wingfat If you Piss Off the really wrong people, you won't just be deported - you will be dead. I am a Type A Personality - So, I sometimes become Over-Animated with locals. I need to correct that, so I can enjoy more retirement years.

- @talamban
I almost never get angry (private)
but as common among Swedes  :) I have problem to shut up when I notice something is to bad. 
So for surviving I better try to stop that.

When not there I have told my business partner sometimes to say things nice himself as usual,
but when that dont help against crap , he can tell it tough, tell its from me, blaming me   :)
Moon Dog
According to our barangay captain he has no power. He is only an intermediary who tries to work things out on a barangay level. When we arrived 1 year ago we spent 10 days quarantined in Manila and 12 days quarantined in our new house on Biliran Island. Then I noticed the karaoke bar just up the road was ignoring the governor's 10 o'clock curfew and partying until 2 am. They were hosting large maskless crowds and gays were kissing in the parking lot. I felt that the ordeal we were forced to endure was moot if all this was going on. I was told by the person who did the last swab test that I should contact the PNP.

Contacting the local municipality PNP is another story. They have no phone number and 911 doesn't work. I had to violate curfew and drive to the PNP station. The night shift cops were in their shorts and t-shirts and lounging around their cottage. I told them about the curfew violation and a couple cops put on their uniforms and went to the karaoke and shut it down. This became a nightly thing, I would go to the PNP at 10:30 pm and they would come and shut down the bar. Eventually the police chief got involved and we had a meeting. For a while the police would come automatically and shut down the bar but that only lasted a short time and each time we had an appointment with the barangay captain the bar owner failed to show. The police chief said if the music bothers you just play louder music because that is the Philippine way. Say no more chief!

I bought a pair of huge PA horns and a 600 watt per channel Sakura amplifier. I made a megaphone shape enclosure for the horns out of plywood and aimed it at the karaoke bar. When it was past curfew I put on Alan Jackson and turned it up full volume. I've never heard anything so loud! People came out of the bar to see what the noise was about and I soon had about 20 people banging at my gate. It worked like a charm, this time the bar owner showed up at the barangay hall and we worked out a deal. Close the bar at 10 pm every night and live band only on Friday. That has been about 10 months ago and she has pretty much stuck to the agreement. It has virtually wrecked her business I'm proud to say. There is no more live band on any night and there are no more large crowds, Usually only 1 or 2 patrons if any.
pnwcyclist
Now that's a story Moondog. It takes large cojones to take on all the systemic complacency like that. I'm sure they didn't know what to think, lol.  Great job.
Moon Dog
@pnwcyclist I got a text from the owner of the bar in March. I don't know what the Visayan portion says but she ended it with "Thanks a lot!" That bar has a sordid history. The owner's husband spent time in prison for selling shabu. When he was paroled he went back to his old ways and was shot dead. He operated the videoke bar before his death on the adjoining property. Someone was killed in a knife fight in the original bar and then it burned down so the two story bamboo shack which was used for prostitution is now the videoke bar, and possibly still used for prostitution. Back in 2014 my father in law had a sari sari store on this property and one of the prostitutes would walk over and buy a cigarette every morning. She wasn't a bad looking girl. My mother in law said she charged P750 for a short time but you would probably get more than you bargained for.

It is sad that with a past like that the barangay captain seemed to be on her side during our negotiations, even though he is tatay's first cousin.
pnwcyclist
Haha, maybe he got a discount rate..

Definitely a sordid history.. sounds like you gentrified the neighborhood, Moondog  :)
coach53
According to our barangay captain he has no power. He is only an intermediary who tries to work things out on a barangay level.  - @Moon Dog
Yes, something like that. 
They dont have any law education normaly, but it belong to their work to make people agree so get solutions fast and reduce work for courts,
so it can be useful people BELIEVE they have more power than they have.

They have some power but I dont know what, except they can make problems for business owners to get the YEARLY !!! business renewal,
and I BELIEVE he has power to solve Right of way cases following the law everyone have right to get in and out from their lots somehow. (Normaly among the shortest routes to public road, although it can be some pay for the one who's land land is used. It would be to much ridicilous I suppouse to have such cases waiting 10 years to be decided in court so the owner canm get out   :)
In one such case it was problem by new owner at the allready right of way had put up fence and refused to open it. It got solved by the foreigner behind paid just for diesel and some snacks to workers to get a new PUBLIC road made to his lot at the other side, which some others got use of too. So it ended up with everyone got happy  1f44d.svg:)

There is a baranggay COUNCIL too which have power to decide some things, but I dont know what.

((Many locals asked my business partner to go for become baranggay captain, because many come and ask him to solve things anyway, which belong to baranggay captain's work, but he reached the wice conclusion he dont have time for such full time work because then he wouldnt have time for me  :) and our business.  But a position in the baranggay council can be interesting, because they call him to such meetings mostly anyway without being elected.))
@pnwcyclist I got a text from the owner of the bar in March. I don't know what the Visayan portion says but she ended it with "Thanks a lot!" That bar has a sordid history. The owner's husband spent time in prison for selling shabu. When he was paroled he went back to his old ways and was shot dead. He operated the videoke bar before his death on the adjoining property. Someone was killed in a knife fight in the original bar and then it burned down so the two story bamboo shack which was used for prostitution is now the videoke bar, and possibly still used for prostitution. Back in 2014 my father in law had a sari sari store on this property and one of the prostitutes would walk over and buy a cigarette every morning. She wasn't a bad looking girl. My mother in law said she charged P750 for a short time but you would probably get more than you bargained for.
It is sad that with a past like that the barangay captain seemed to be on her side during our negotiations, even though he is tatay's first cousin. - @Moon Dog
Perhaps he had been customer and she had some embarrassing secret to hold against him  :)   so he didnt dare to do anything else.

Sometimes baranggay officials take side even with foreigners though. 
E g in one case had a Filipino extended his house AT the foreigner's right of way so the foreigner couldnt get through with his car anymore. It became heated arguments and the foreigner said some words breaking the law, so the Filipino made a case to the baranggay expecting to winn easy. Normaly are such cases only with baranggay captain and the involved NOT even lawyers, but this time a council member made it open for the public and a lot of spectators came.  We as foreigners could believe it was to humiliate the foreigner, but the Filipino, who filed the case, was so disliked by Filipinos too including the council member, who made it public, and it ended up with that Filipino got "crushed" realy loosinmg face in public...  :)

Its because of such risks for problems with neighbours I say its better to live far from any    :)
At least 200 meters and some sound reducing as a forest or hill in between to fullfil my minidemands.   It can be to hard to find such at small islands but at "mainland" islands there are many such places even at beaches. Harder to find with ok road (and electric grid) but there are such too. 
(E g one I were close to buy at Palawan. A concreete road going almost to "Nowhere" and electric grid ends just 200 meters from the lot. Perhaps it was someone with power who made it to raise the value of his lots there OR perhaps it was decided before the mine 5 km further got closed. It was even cheap 150k pesos per hectare!)
Lotus Eater
Now that's a story Moondog. It takes large cojones to take on all the systemic complacency like that. I'm sure they didn't know what to think, lol.  Great job.
- @pnwcyclist


I'll second that. 'When in Rome' as I often say. You played them (literally )at their own game and won. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at that Barangay meeting.
A credit to your tenacity Moondog ;)
Filamretire
Moon Dog I hope you have many relatives from that area because any foreigner without that would surely be dispatched, doing that sort of thing. One question or observation, would living in a development be better as far as property goes? The development would have its own security and rules. Cost much more and smaller lots but it's worth peace of mind I would say
Moon Dog
@Filamretire

I do have a lot of relatives here but I don't think I would be dispatched for playing loud music in the Philippines. I was just doing what the police chief suggested.

I like being the only American in the area. If my only option was a gated community with a lot of other expats I would have stayed in the US.
Filamretire
@Moon Dog Sure, I'm thinking tho to have my cake and eat it too, gated community, yes mostly expats, but not just US but many others, and enjoy the Philippine life too ie more affordable hobbies, healthier food, gardening etc, also amenities
Moon Dog
I would be a bird in a gilded cage in a gated community. I was born on a farm in West (by God) Virginia and never took to city life. Here I have large two story house similar to what you might see in a gated community. I have a large front yard that my wife has well landscaped and an inground pool in the back yard. For hobbies I would need a workshop so I had an airconditioned workshop built. As far as gardening I have mango, papaya, guava, pineapple, banana, jack fruit, coconut, miracle fruit and a few I don't know the name of. For veggies I have a rototiller I managed to pack in a BB box along with a couple push mowers, we have a lot of grass to mow. We have our favorite beaches we frequent. Tomalistis Falls is a short drive (world's sweetest water) and I will be swimming at Kasabangon Falls in the morning. I'm good right where I am, thanks.
Lotus Eater
@Moon Dog Sure, I'm thinking tho to have my cake and eat it too, gated community, yes mostly expats, but not just US but many others, and enjoy the Philippine life too ie more affordable hobbies, healthier food, gardening etc, also amenities
- @Filamretire


We don't have 'gated' communities here in the UK it is more of an American phenomenon and I can understand the logic Stateside given the high level of crime.
Surely though trying to 'replicate' the American Dream is defeating the whole raison d'etre of moving to the Philippines in the first place. There is a certain sterility to gated communities from what I've read similar to shopping malls. Its a 'made to order' lifestyle. Not everyone wants a Jim Carrey Truman Show  - 'Honey I'm Home'  set up.
Enzyte Bob
We don't have 'gated' communities here in the UK it is more of an American phenomenon and I can understand the logic Stateside given the high level of crime.
Surely though trying to 'replicate' the American Dream is defeating the whole raison d'etre of moving to the Philippines in the first place. There is a certain sterility to gated communities from what I've read similar to shopping malls. Its a 'made to order' lifestyle. Not everyone wants a Jim Carrey Truman Show  - 'Honey I'm Home'  set up.
- @Lotus Eater
Gated communities is a recent phenomenon because of newer construction. In Las Vegas some newer apartment complexes are gated but not manned. It is limited entry using a key pad.

I've gained access many times in these gated communities by waiting for some resident to go in and just followed them. A friend of mine (80 years old) had trouble remembering his four digit code so he changed it to 'OPEN'.

A gated community does not stop domestic violence or theft from another member. I had my lawn furniture stolen from my patio, I walked around the complex and spotted my stuff and called the police. The police came and knocked on the thief's door but nobody answered. The officer told me to take my stuff back, so I did.

I lived in both gated & ungated. . .gated is a  pain in the neck, with some problems. . .Somebody trying to gain access but having trouble with the code and a whole line of cars behind them. Then finally somebody gets out of their car and punches in their code. . . .A bad driver hits the gate so it won't open or close (you don't get in. . .you don't get out). The gate malfunctions all on it's own.

Some gates are left open 24/7 because of many problems, some gates are programmed to be left open during the day and only close at night time.

I lived in another community that was not gated but walled in. It was limited access with two ways in and two ways out.
Lotus Eater
"A gated community does not stop domestic violence or theft from another member. I had my lawn furniture stolen from my patio, I walked around the complex and spotted my stuff and called the police. The police came and knocked on the thief's door but nobody answered. The officer told me to take my stuff back, so I did."

So I guess you would call that an 'inside job' 1f923.svg
PhilRes
1. traffic laws - now w/BBM back have noticed the cops have returned to NCR street corners, particularly on Fridays - they will pull you over for changing lanes too close to the intersection even if at 2 mph coming up to a red light, going straight on a turn lane....which you not know is a turn lane until you are upon it, or turning right on red where there is an obscure sign saying you cannot....point is there no laws until they want to earn some cash...Duterte put a complete END to that for most of his 6 years...I give him a lot of credit for that.
2. Expat life  - not our country - not our laws, our politics, etc.. best approach.  I concede if married to a local then that a different equation.
Lotus Eater
So next time you witness this shakedown happen to a Filipino why not politely ask them if they voted for BBM? They will probably say yes to which you can answer diplomatically 'he overspent on the election campaign'
PalawOne
"A gated community does not stop domestic violence or theft from another member. I had my lawn furniture stolen from my patio, I walked around the complex and spotted my stuff and called the police. The police came and knocked on the thief's door but nobody answered. The officer told me to take my stuff back, so I did."

So I guess you would call that an 'inside job' 1f923.svg
- @Lotus Eater

Yes, but it was outdoor furniture, and so an 'inside outside job'
Wingfat
Got a slight Right Of way issue right now.... Purchased a lot with a 5 meter ROW.... Only problem the local church has a stage almost in the middle of it. Legal survey says it's a ROW.. I have "Just" enough room to get my pickup thru. A local Kubu maker had to hire extra workers to lift it over the fence.
The barangay captain has no problem allowing me to knock down the stage.. at the cost of re-building another one. I would pay materials and the local labor would take care of the rest.
I was thinking about going ahead with that depending on the materials cost (I will know in a few days), Then my principals started acting up. Someone had built that thing in the middle of a right of way (by mistake?). I realize knocking down the locals stage is suicide if I wish to live there peacefully.. The thing is who is responsible for payment?
I'm leaning towards dropping the whole thing and just live with squeezing by. My builder obtained permission to remove the concrete steps which were totally blocking his ability to build my house.
I was prepared to contribute to fixing some of parts of the barangay road before all of this.. I'm not so inclined anymore..
Lost in Fiji
Got a slight Right Of way issue right now.... Purchased a lot with a 5 meter ROW.... Only problem the local church has a stage almost in the middle of it. Legal survey says it's a ROW.. I have "Just" enough room to get my pickup thru. A local Kubu maker had to hire extra workers to lift it over the fence.
The barangay captain has no problem allowing me to knock down the stage.. at the cost of re-building another one. I would pay materials and the local labor would take care of the rest.
I was thinking about going ahead with that depending on the materials cost (I will know in a few days), Then my principals started acting up. Someone had built that thing in the middle of a right of way (by mistake?). I realize knocking down the locals stage is suicide if I wish to live there peacefully.. The thing is who is responsible for payment?
I'm leaning towards dropping the whole thing and just live with squeezing by. My builder obtained permission to remove the concrete steps which were totally blocking his ability to build my house.
I was prepared to contribute to fixing some of parts of the barangay road before all of this.. I'm not so inclined anymore..  - @Wingfat

`
Well, it's somewhat of a difficult situation for you Wingfat, my condolences.

But must say, as is usual, the church stage would most probably have been a special congregation project. With the funding gradually collected by the whole church community over quite a few years. Therefore, it belongs to everyone, and something to be proud of as a community, (including the concrete steps)? 

And this new church stage was probably built with the same volunteer labour that will now have to rebuild it because of your whitey issues.

Who would have thought that the volunteer workers should have checked the title records for any right-of-way?  The whole church community have now kindly offered to rebuild it for you, if you pay for the materials.

Sounds fair to me. And if I was you, as a newcomer, I'd be adding some stage-lighting and maybe seating as well, as your sign of your good-will for your whole community. The beauty of it being a church project is that everyone will know what you have offered for their much-beloved church, and so will be doubly grateful to you. If the stage / obstruction was privately owned, not many would know or care of your financial arrangements.

Luckily, you now have the opportunity, because of the church, to be honored as a most welcome local resident indeed.  (And perhaps also with the local government people by making a good contribution to the barangay road as well?)

The stage was built with volunteer funding, and will be rebuilt (even bigger and better?) with volunteer funding.

Sounds appropriate and certainly a great opportunity, at a very reasonable cost, for you to become a local hero?

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