For foreigners in a relationship with an Egyptian:

As Egyptian, I can say that's the sadly truth, biffy is right.

I would only go for a week. His boss caught him messaging me in Facebook and therefore has turned the office internet off. He's been texting me but it's an expensive way to keep in touch.

Aww, he had already started to tell you he needs some extra money as messaging is sooo expensive! Why he doesn't turn on mobile internet like everybody in Egypt? Or you can message and chat after work! Nooo, not that simple, he has to make a story out of it!

Stay away!

just run from him
the same story will start all over again.

The guy is just making up stories ( modus operandi).

But indirectly he's asking you to send money for him which a lot of men are doing that when their gf are foreigners regardless of nationality.

Trust me, I've seen a lot of women here their life is in a mess during or after the relationship. They will make sure they will take everything from you and you will end up alone and devastated.

Because the truth is, they can never take a foreign woman seriously.

Am sorry to say that, but that is the truth.

Take it  or leave it!

Chezza2uk, 

Sorry to say all these stuff, its not like we don't want you to be happy but we are just concern about you because we have seen many that are suffering  from this kind of relationship exactly like your own.

We just want you to open your eyes and take things in consideration.  And think million times before giving out decision that will affect your entire life ( your career, your children, & your future).

THANK YOU.

[Moderated: avoid posting your personal details pls]

What a name !! Sailorman !!!!!! and your whatsapp hehehehe sorry couldn't stop myself from laughing
Is your whatsapp mean anything to the topic !!

Look Chezza

your kids are your life.

forget this lowlife Egyptian man - who is probably texting so many foreign women - that's why its so expensive - keeping his options open - seeing which one will come through for him.

focus on your kids and FORGET HIM.
at the end of the day if you continue and it all goes pear shaped they will also suffer - in a big way

Run like hell - delete all his contact details - stay away.

I don't know how plain simple and honest we can be!!!!

From what i have seen in situations like that ..My last advice to you would be just forget it ,you don't know what you will go through .. Think Twice and consider all this comments from people knows exactly what's Next .

All of these openions are mainly based on the person experience, however marriage ideas and concepts are differ from calture to calture, i think u need to evaluate at first the marriage ideas in egypt before to decide to marry an egyptian or not

If he has asked you to stay with female relatives then that's ok but if he wants you to stay with him then it's wrong.
I would take someone with.you and don't get.blinded.by romance !
I hope he is genuine and that you have a happy life.

Sorry to burst your bubble but there is no way you can experience the 'real' Egypt by just staying with his family for a while. Do you speak fluent Arabic? No? Then you wont have a clue what they are saying about you and in front of you to each other. All the smiling and hugs of the mother may well be just a display of happiness that her son has got himself a woman with money who is able to support the whole family (doctors and hospital costs, education costs for the younger members of the family (ie his nephews and nieces) etc etc etc........ That's something I learnt to my cost, and I only have orfi marriage papers!

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask for advice...but, here goes:
Hi all,
I am a 20 year old american girl who recently studied abroad in Paris for a year and met an egyptian man. I really like this man and I think he genuinely cares for me too but I have my fears (he could be using me to obtain a green card, etc) and he freaked me out by asking me to get engaged to him before I left paris. I am back in the US but we've agreed to do long distance. I would appreciate any advice or opinions. Thank you.

About him:
-23 years old
-he's been living in Paris for 2 years
-I suspect that he's an illegal immigrant in France
-he used to live with his ex-girlfriend (he's had a ton of sex, apparently.)
-he's asked for sex a lot. He seems to be pleased that I'm a virgin but still wants to have sex with me...I really don't understand this. Don't egyptian men want virgin brides?
-he wants me to come back to paris as soon as possible (I'm hoping to visit him next summer)
-within the first few dates he introduced me to his brother and asked me to meet his parents
-before I left for paris he asked me to get engaged to him. I rejected him but we're still doing long distance.
-we were dating for about a month and a half before I left paris. So, all of this happened very quickly.
-he seems to be attracted to me because I look egyptian (according to him) and he seems to hold me to the same standards as an egyptian woman.
-he often asks money questions. "How much is the rent for your Parisian apartment?" Or now that I'm back in the U.S.: "how many kilometers is your home?"
I've told him multiple times that I'm not weathly, which is why it's going to be difficult for me to go back to paris. He says he's middle class and I've told him that I am too.
I don't think he wants to marry me for my non-existent money or my citizenship but I worry. I have trouble believing he would want to marry a foreign woman that he's known for a month out of pure affection.

Well you admit that you suspect he is an illegal immigrant. Then you continue to say that you don't think he wants to marry you for citizenship. Hmm. It's quite clear what you need to do. You're only 20. You have your whole life ahead of you. Delete, block, do whatever you need to do to get him out of your life. You won't regret it.

i think he is a good man, dont get scared

Hello Dezu44,

Just 20 years old... hardly enough to know how Arabic and Middle-Eastern men operate. While they're not ALL bad apples, the vast majority who propose marriage so quickly are looking for one of two things; a) a meal ticket who will bankroll them until she herself is flat broke; or b) a visa or permanent residency in a country that they see to be much more affluent than their own. They are oh so charming and romantic, know all the right words to say in order to sweep you off your feet, however that doesn't last for very long. (usually until the money starts to run out or the possibility of the visa becomes remote)

So, how do you tell if the marriage proposal is legitimate (for love) or if you're being used for financial or immigrations reasons? Simple...

First you start off by telling him (and this he can check himself through USCIS) that even marriage to a US citizen DOES NOT GUARANTEE permanency in the USA.

Second, you tell him that since he wants to marry you, and you don't want to risk being separated from him because he can't get a visa or green card, that you want to move permanently to Egypt so you can be together there. Also that you plan to stay home look after the house, him and your children (and that you want lots of kids). Tell him that you expect to be supported in the same lifestyle you now enjoy, you're not willing to live like a pauper.

Third, you tell him you want a real marriage. not an Orfi marriage which has absolutely no legal value at all (not even in Egypt). If he doesn't already know what your religion is, then tell him that you are a very devout Catholic and that your religion dictates that he convert to Catholocism so you can be married according to the Holy Sacrament of Matrimony in a Catholic church.

Do all of those and I can guarantee that your prince charming will disappear quicker than a Wisconsin snowflake in the hot Egyptian sun.

Cheers,
James      Expat-blog Experts Team

Thank you all for your input.

We've already talked about religion (we are both Christians) and we've already talked about children. He wants 4 children and I, quite honestly, wouldn't mind having four, although I'd prefer to have two. Before I came back to the US, I didn't fear that he wanted to marry me for citizenship but quite a few friends of mine jokingly brought it up so, I became fearful. If anything, I think he just really wants to start a family, he talks about children quite often. Actually, the first time he mentioned marriage, he immediately mentioned children. "So we get married and then we make baby?" LOL.
Also, if anyone knows the differences between Egyptian Coptic Christians and I guess, "american" Christians, I'd love to hear about it. I assume that they're essentially the same, but I'm probably wrong.

Also, It's seems his parents are okay with their sons marrying foreign women. His older brother is marrying an 18 year old Swedish girl. I don't know if that means I'll be well accepted or if they can't afford to have their sons marry Egyptian women (perhaps the dowry is too expensive for them?).

@James
If I told him that I want to get married and move to Egypt and have his four sons, he would be absolutely elated. In fact, when I mentioned learning Arabic he got really excited.

I think I'll remind him that after I graduate, I'm going to be poor because of student loans. If he still wants to marry me after that, then maybe he's crazy or genuinely cares for me.

Hi Dezu
I am married to an Egyptian and I couldn't be happier. People told me lots of horror stories but I made up my own mind and we are still together 8 years later.
I hope it works out for you like it has for me ...good luck

Oh my God, ladies, ladies and again ladies....and of course, gentlemen. It's so weird to hear again a new bull shit it's goin to be born. He is an accountant in a hotel in Sharm and u r a guest who fall in love with an EMPLOYEE of hotel, and you believe he has some wages just cos it's an accountatnt........I cant stop myself from replying to your post, I even cant have enough patience to read the other advices. My dear Ladies, this is not a start for a true and GENUINE relationship, nor a serious future marriage (pls God, no). Why so faster to go at his home and visit his family? wht's the purpose of this visit? over ur expenses? Damn it, i see just now you have kids and you love them, why you look for a mess in ur life if you dont have it? Just to busy urself???????? What is looking for exactly from you? can you answer to yourself 2 this question? are you sure about his intentions? I am sorry being so sticked to you like that but my higher IQ will never allow me to understand this traditional and conservative people treating me like that. Honestly, I am not someone in this world but at east it's so visible how this holy egyptian crap treat us as a foreigner, how scammers they can be. I have met around 100 egyptian guys during my stay in Egypt and believe me ladies, only 2 of them, 2 characters coud reach a higher level in my conception and expectations, a very genuine persons that can keep a very normal conversation with me as 2 adults. The rest of them asked for: sex, money for trip to spend together excusing they dont have enough money for now, they work as engineers but they dont win more than 4000LE monthly, to pay for their expenses and "emergencies", fake promises to meet their family members while they never talk to me to their parents, etc......and please pay attention to this detail: I am here in Cairo and meeting them not overseas. That's a real tragedy to listen, again, TO LISTEN to a bull shit. I  am so fed up to hear sorries and apologises about this LOVE  stories when you met an egyptian man in your holiday. Wake up foreigners.

Not all relationships are destined to fail people. I met my husband on the internet..  yes the internet!!!! We have now been married for 8 wonderful years !!! I have a wonderful relationship with his family so you have to make up your own mind ... only you know the man in question and only you know what your relationship is like. Egyptian men are no different to any other men ...They are human beings and have the same positives and negatives as any other man. If these men were from your own country you would not be so worried. Of course there are cultural differences which you need to understand but I can honestly say this has never been an issue for me and my husband. You can get to.know these men before you decide to marry them. Spend time talking with them and get to know them just as you would a man in your own country. You will need a chaperone if he is a decent man but that is no problem to arrange.  Egyptian men are not all bad at all some of them are wonderful men who will treat you like a queen. It all depends on how you start out in your relationship ....no different to any other relationship.

Hi everyone,

I've removed a few posts from this thread

That was thoughtful and appropriate.

u removed the "truth".

He might have done...

But if so, it wasn't your friend who said it.

take care
99.9999999 % he is abusing you ....

@ meme1 ........ life is not that dark ..... in every place you will find good people and also bad people .....  i understand that you met guys in egypt , who were looking to abuse you , either financially or sexually ........... but this is not all egyptian ............ there are also millions who are good characters ........  so , if you met the wrong people here , don't make it as a rule .......  keep in mind , that in europe , you may find such sick characters too

i have seen many cases of successful marriage with foreigners ........ i remember , a friend of my brother , whose mother is from austria , and live here for 30 years , or maybe more ............. there are many similar stories .............. so , don't focus only on the negative sides

humans are the same every where .. you will find good and bad men / women everywhere  ...............  but before starting a relationship , analyse it ; is it the right relation ? is this the suitable life partner ? can i accept the flaws of him/her ? can i understand the cultural difference and deal with it .........


i will not say that european women are bad ........... because i know that there are good european women , who care about their families and children ........... and also i know that there are many egyptian women who are not good

everywhere , there are good people , and bad people

take care

Ahmed 197666
I totally agree with you. This is also what I have been saying. Do not judge everyone by one persons actions. Spend time getting to know the person. As you say, think about wether or not this person is right for you and do not rush into anything.....after all they say if something is good its worth waiting for!. So to all you people who are in the beginnings of a relationship...no matter who it's with, good luck and I wish you happiness always.

From my own experience, if he mentions money, especially if he asks for it, run as fast as your legs can take you,
I met an Egyptian man in October of 2013. He suggested marriage (what I now know is an orfi marriage) the first week we met so that we could go out together, share a hotel room etc, I stupidly agreed. He took me to meet his family many times, but during the whole of my stay he also took me to the cash point to get money out so that we could have a nice time! He said he could earn only about 1,000 L per month, but was on a commission only (no tourists no money). I got about 5,000 L out of my account during that second week - he expected me to hand it over, and he spent absolutely nothing. When we were there he found out he had a blood disease (thrombocythaemia, which is cancer of the blood).  I ended up sending him money every month for hospital bills (he said he needed 10,000 L for treatment for blood cancer in a Cairo hospital. This left me so short of money every month that I only managed to go back to Egypt twice more - our 'relationship' was confined to daily texts and phone calls (I usually had to phone him as he "couldn't afford the calls". I dont know what I was thinking, but I allowed this to go on until June of this year. He wanted me to sell my house and live in Egypt with him, and to spend the money from my house on buying a shop for him and re-building his mother's house (which we would have a flat in)!   In June he said that he had given up his job as he was too unwell to do it (he said he was earning hardly anything anyway) and that he had returned to live with his mother. He texted me to ask for 4,000 L a month to live on until I had sold my house and could go to Egypt. I texted him to say that I had no more money to send - that I given him around 160,000 L since I had met him and could give him no more. That was the last I heard from him - he didn't even reply.
I look back and can hardly believe that all this happened, but I did really love him (I fall in love easily) and think of him still. Those 2 years threw me into a deep depression which I am just starting to recover from. He led me to think that he loved me, but when I look back I realise that he loved my money more.
PLEASE THINK VERY CAREFULLY IF MONEY COMES INTO THE EQUATION. You will soon find out if he really loves you if you say you don't have any.

Oh my love what a horrible person he was. I cannot begin to imagine how you feel. You fell in love and you did your best to help this lowlife. You should gain some comfort from the fact that you did this from a good heart.

I hope this man gets what he deserves for taking your goodness and using it so badly. He will get his come up pace one day God willing and he will have to answer for his actions.
I hope one day you will meet a man who deserves you and who treats you as he should and makes you 100% happy.
God bless you because you are so obviously a kind woman and anyone who says differently or calls you any horrible names or says you were stupid has obviously never fallen in love.

Thank you so much for your kind words     I really appreciate it. The trouble is, I STILL think maybe he did love me and he really was broke. But when I compare the amount of money he always asked for, with what other people in Egypt have told me things cost, I have to believe that he conned me. Its just that I have never come across this kind of problem before, and just presumed he was telling the truth. I guess I just thought he was honest like me.
And such men are very good at saying the right things, expressing love, even dancing for you...........

Honey if he loved you he would have replied to you and fought to keep you. When my husband and I got together I helped him with money too so I did exactly the same as you. My husband came to the UK on my money and eight years later he gives me money every week and never takes a penny from me.

It could have gone the same way for you too but the man you met was not a good man. Men like him are not worth your tears or getting depressed over, though of course I understand it's easier said than done. You loved him and you were honest,kind,caring and did what you could to help him. He behaved like scum towards you and believe me he will get what's coming to him, because what goes around comes around.

If he cared for you he would fight to keep you. He would be trying every which way to keep in touch with you and doing as much as he could to build a life for you both together.

Just know that you are worth much more than that. One day you will meet a man who loves you unconditionally and he will want to take care of you.

This man from Egypt is bad and he does not deserve you to keep thinking of him honey! Don't let him cast his shadow over you any more but forget him and put it down to a bad experience. Please don't let this colour your thoughts about all Egyptian men.

Someone else will come along for you and one day you will look back at this and be able to see that from what you did you will receive so many blessings but for him there will only be bad deeds recorded and he will pay one day.

Get on with your life and have a life that is beautiful which is what a beautiful heart like yours deserves xx

i respect and appreciate that you had a good intention  .......... but , you went into a wrong relation ....... and it started wrong from the early begging by orfi marriage ........ it waste the rights of the lady
a man who has no job , and maybe also no education ;  how could you accept marry with him , and what wee your expectations ????!!!!!!!!!

My expectations?  Just to be with a man who loved me, and who was attentive and romantic. It didn't matter to me that he was not educated: he could not be blamed for that if his family could not afford to send him to school. He did have a job, not a good job I know....When I met him I was on holiday to take a rest from work (I have a high pressure job). And I had just divorced my English husband of many years, because he said he did not want to be with me any longer. I guess I was lonely and not thinking straight.........

i respect your intention
but , love and romantic words are not enough to maintain the stability of a family ........
it is true that they are important for success of relationship ............   but still ,  they are not enough

if he get a low salary , do you think that he can offer you a suitable social life style , close to that you are used to ?????

also , i didnt say that he is blames if not educated ,,,, but , he still not suitable for someone with a higher education ........ simply there will be a big  gap of thinking between both ..

compatibility is important for success of marriage ......

also , i understood that he knew that you were just out of a marriage ,,, then he abused you , and played with his nice words ,,,, to collect as much money as possible


what happened is past ...... so in future  , don't take decisions when you are much frustrated , or even much happy .......... avoid making decisions at peaks of mood

enjoy a nice day