Language Advice

Whenever I travel for more than three or four weeks, I always spend a few weeks on Rosetta Stone and Duolingo in an attempt to learn at least a few words before I arrive. I find simply being able to say please, thank you, yes, no, etc., to be extremely helpful, and appreciated by the locals.

As I am now looking at much longer stays in VN, two months this year and six next, I want to take language training a little more seriously. To that end, I started both Rosetta Stone and Duolingo in June, a full five months before my trip.

Currently, the plan is to continue with these programs once in country, and hire a private tutor once I arrive in HCMC. Other than a tutor, does anyone have any recommendations for improving my Vietnamese? Any advice in keeping gender/age classifiers straight?

Best regards,

Roger
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Where are you planning to reside once settled down in Vietnam?
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Where are you planning to reside once settled down in Vietnam?
- @THIGV

VERY prescient question Thigv!

Roger, you probably already know that  there are three main dialects in VN, being southern, central, and northern (within each of which there are again local dialects). Focusing on a dialect not used in your geographical location might prove itself to being more an impediment than an advantage. The differences are more than slight pronounciation differences, and at times are enough to confuse native VN speakers.
My guess is that the programs/apps you are using teach the northern dialect.

There are some very well done "Learn Vietnamese" channels on youtube.
Southern dialect,   Central,   and  Northern links






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@THIGV

Right now, it will be HCMC. I'm not sure what district. I'm staying at the Hotel Continental Saigon for the first 4 days while I secure longer-term accommodation. I don't need to be in an expat neighbourhood. As long as I can walk to coffee shops and restaurants, I'll be happy.

BTW, in addition to advice on learning the language, I'd love some recommendations on neighbourhood within walking distance to the above.

Cheers,

Roger
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Where are you planning to reside once settled down in Vietnam?
- @THIGV

VERY prescient question Thigv!

Roger, you probably already know that  there are three main dialects in VN, being southern, central, and northern (within each of which there are again local dialects). Focusing on a dialect not used in your geographical location might prove itself to being more an impediment than an advantage. The differences are more than slight pronounciation differences, and at times are enough to confuse native VN speakers.
My guess is that the programs/apps you are using teach the northern dialect.

There are some very well done "Learn Vietnamese" channels on youtube.
Southern dialect,   Central,   and  Northern links






- @Aidan in HCMC

Awesome, thanks.

The programs are pretty general and try to teach the basics in a way that most Vietnamese would understand what the learner is trying to say. On occasion, they do point out that a certain word is different in the North or South.

I will visit Hanoi, but I expect I'll remain mostly in the South.
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@THIGV

Right now, it will be HCMC. I'm not sure what district. I'm staying at the Hotel Continental Saigon for the first 4 days while I secure longer-term accommodation. I don't need to be in an expat neighbourhood. As long as I can walk to coffee shops and restaurants, I'll be happy.

BTW, in addition to advice on learning the language, I'd love some recommendations on neighbourhood within walking distance to the above.

Cheers,

Roger
- @RTLisSB

Your smack in middle of D1, get a sim with 4g and start walking in any direction use google maps to find your way back,, just walk along road until you see/smell coffee,, point to it and try, the street coffee is the sweet vn coffee, the coffee shops, highlands, phuc long, my life cafe etc have the western styles like latte etc. 15k to 70k+ go explore :)
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@THIGV

Right now, it will be HCMC. I'm not sure what district. I'm staying at the Hotel Continental Saigon for the first 4 days while I secure longer-term accommodation. I don't need to be in an expat neighbourhood. As long as I can walk to coffee shops and restaurants, I'll be happy.

BTW, in addition to advice on learning the language, I'd love some recommendations on neighbourhood within walking distance to the above.

Cheers,

Roger
- @RTLisSB

Your smack in middle of D1, get a sim with 4g and start walking in any direction use google maps to find your way back,, just walk along road until you see/smell coffee,, point to it and try, the street coffee is the sweet vn coffee, the coffee shops, highlands, phuc long, my life cafe etc have the western styles like latte etc. 15k to 70k+ go explore smile.png
- @Andybris2020

Will certainly give that a try!

Thanks!
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@RTLisSB : You will see many coffee shops in every single streets and corners of HCM while walking mate.

Get a sim (I got Mobifone) download google maps and start exploring.
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@RTLisSB : You will see many coffee shops in every single streets and corners of HCM while walking mate.

Get a sim (I got Mobifone) download google maps and start exploring.
- @yudirajput

Awesome, cheers.

Any advice on learning the lingo?

R
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Any advice on learning the lingo?

R
- @RTLisSB

Oh boy. Only practice, patience, and perseverance will pay off. I learned Arabic many years ago, and though I found it difficult, it was not nearly as difficult at Vietnamese. I can still prattle on in Arabic.

Try this on Google Dịch (en; Google Translate).
I'll give you an English word. Click on it, and play the pronunciation on the Google Translate page. Can you hear the difference between each word? I can now, but when I arrived 5 years ago they sounded as though they were the same word.







Let us know how you make out  :)


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@Aidan in HCMC

Cheers, I will.

Roger
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@RTLisSB

Not to demoralise, knowing a word or two will sound different to the local eardrum at the very initial stage. You will see question mark from the local forehead or worst simply being ignored if they could not interpret accordingly. Next best is to enforce hand language. As mentioned by Aidan in HCMC, Northern, Central and Southern sound different especially Central, even local outsider could not understand as well. Since you are heading to HCMC, then you will be quite "safe" as mostly youngster are able to speak little english.

Advance preparation is best but advise to just come here and blend in. Open up the ear and listen to the local interact. Then you will judge yourself.

Getting SIM card with data plan is important. You may use the data to navigate yourself throughout the street. Streets between morning and evening, the environment will be totally different for some. Example will be a wet market in the morning while transform into eatery places or mini bazaar in the evening. Should you are lost, read the shop signboard. Majority will have its address stated there in small little wording. ( Tp. or Thanh Pho = City, Q = Quan / District ) Booking for taxi or Grab, such address will be beneficial for your initial pick up point. Important point to note, try not to use your phone while you are walking. If needed to, face to the opposite oncoming traffic direction while walking.

Don't over worry... just enjoy your stay and you will love the coffee as much as the coffee love you.

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Whenever I travel for more than three or four weeks, I always spend a few weeks on Rosetta Stone and Duolingo in an attempt to learn at least a few words before I arrive. I find simply being able to say please, thank you, yes, no, etc., to be extremely helpful, and appreciated by the locals.

As I am now looking at much longer stays in VN, two months this year and six next, I want to take language training a little more seriously. To that end, I started both Rosetta Stone and Duolingo in June, a full five months before my trip.

Currently, the plan is to continue with these programs once in country, and hire a private tutor once I arrive in HCMC. Other than a tutor, does anyone have any recommendations for improving my Vietnamese? Any advice in keeping gender/age classifiers straight?

Best regards,

Roger
- @RTLisSB


Find any coffee shop, sit down and chat with the locals. Most speak some English and go from there, you'll soon find someone who is happy to teach you some words in exchange for practicing some English in return.
Like
Whenever I travel for more than three or four weeks, I always spend a few weeks on Rosetta Stone and Duolingo in an attempt to learn at least a few words before I arrive. I find simply being able to say please, thank you, yes, no, etc., to be extremely helpful, and appreciated by the locals.

As I am now looking at much longer stays in VN, two months this year and six next, I want to take language training a little more seriously. To that end, I started both Rosetta Stone and Duolingo in June, a full five months before my trip.

Currently, the plan is to continue with these programs once in country, and hire a private tutor once I arrive in HCMC. Other than a tutor, does anyone have any recommendations for improving my Vietnamese? Any advice in keeping gender/age classifiers straight?

Best regards,

Roger
- @RTLisSB


Find any coffee shop, sit down and chat with the locals. Most speak some English and go from there, you'll soon find someone who is happy to teach you some words in exchange for practicing some English in return.
- @Jlgarbutt

first sensible advice I have heard on this long drawn out post & after you think you have mastered some words then try it out on a Vietnamese & watch their blank reaction & they wont understand a word you have said!
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As mentioned, pronunciation is the major challenge for VNese.

One of the first things you should do is learn the writing system so you have some idea how words are supposed to be pronounced. Because it is based on the Roman alphabet, people get stymied by L1 interference and get into the habit of mispronouncing words.

A common example is "phở" (the soup), which is pronounced more like "fuhr", rather than "foe" because there is a little horn on the O. The question mark indicates the tone (mid dipping-rising).

The famous "áo dài" is pronounced "ow yai" in the south and "ow zai" in the north, not "ow dai". The tone marks indicate a rising tone in the first word and a falling tone in the second word.

Cooked rice "cơm" is pronounced "germ" with a hard G as in "go" and the horned O similar to "phở". There is no tone mark, so the tine is "mid-level".

in "trà đá" (iced tea), the second word is pronounced similar to an English D because of the crossbar but it is necessary to pronounce it with the strong rising tone (almost a screech) to be correct. the 'tr" sounds more like "ch". The tone is dropping.

In most cases, you'll be using English. Otherwise, use your phone for google translate or to show a picture of what you want (which can also sometimes cause confusion).
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@THIGV

Right now, it will be HCMC. I'm not sure what district. I'm staying at the Hotel Continental Saigon for the first 4 days while I secure longer-term accommodation. I don't need to be in an expat neighbourhood. As long as I can walk to coffee shops and restaurants, I'll be happy.

BTW, in addition to advice on learning the language, I'd love some recommendations on neighbourhood within walking distance to the above.

Cheers,

Roger
- @RTLisSB


Although not the greatest in the world, I feel it's worth having a look at the museums near there:

War Remnants Museum

Ho Chi Minh City Fine Arts Museum

Ho Chi Minh City Museum

Reunification Palace

Of course, you'll undoubtedly see the cathedral as well as the post office designed by Gustave Eiffel, the dude that did the tower.
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@johnross23

Exactly. My encumbrance especially ordering black iced coffee with sugar... "cà phê đen đá có đường". Till now still could not pronounce it correctly ( after 3 months ). Unless walking in to my regular joint seeing the waitress who know me, else will start all over again at the counter with mouth rumbling while finger swaging towards the photo.   
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@alexneoh

Good advice, thanks, Alex.

I took many French courses over the years that did little for me. However, the two times I went to France and was surrounded by the language was incredible.

Cheers,

Roger
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@goodolboy

LOL, lovely. LOL
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Youtube. search for Learn Vietnamese with Donna
She speaks clearly and you will not be bored.
I learned numbers first, the city names video will show you to never assume pronunciation.
Unfortunately she quit after a few videos.
Other youtube teachers like "Annie" I can't understand, "Tieng viet oi" speaks northern.
I took lessons for awhile, most important were the one-on-one for pronunciation.
There are dozens of English clubs where you drop in and you can exchange language. On Facebook, search for the group English Clubs of Ho Chi Minh City.  They love native English speakers.
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@gobot
Thanks, gobot!

Roger
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Youtube. search for Learn Vietnamese with Donna
She speaks clearly and you will not be bored.

- @gobot

Just did, and you are right, she's very good. Just twenty videos, but it's a start.

Cheers,

Roger
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Let us know how you make out  smile.png


- @Aidan in HCMC

Wow, very difficult. Some were easier than others. Needless to say, my days of getting by without my hearing aids are coming to an end!

Let's hope I can order coffee in a few years! 1f923.svg

Thanks a bunch,

Roger
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@kamawujohn

I think the point is that it would be a trade off, i.e., the VN help you with your Vietnamese and you help them with their English.

Roger
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Thanks for the ideas so what do I stand to gain from English Clubs of Ho Chi Minh city?
- @kamawujohn
Syntax?
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@RTLisSB

The language, being tonal, is full of fun little things like those.

Try these to see what I mean



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@Aidan in HCMC

Just add some to confuse more:
- Dựa - Lean on...
- Dừa lòng - Please ( Northern called Vừa lòng )

Happy twisting....
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@Aidan in HCMC

Just add some to confuse more:
- Dựa - Lean on...
- Dừa lòng - Please ( Northern called Vừa lòng )
- @alexneoh
đũa ~ chopsticks 🥢
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@johnross23

Exactly. My encumbrance especially ordering black iced coffee with sugar... "cà phê đen đá có đường". Till now still could not pronounce it correctly ( after 3 months ). Unless walking in to my regular joint seeing the waitress who know me, else will start all over again at the counter with mouth rumbling while finger swaging towards the photo.   
- @alexneoh

Try shortening it up a bit. If you don't include milk (sữa), you will get black coffee

cà phê đá và đường
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@Aidan in HCMC

Unfortunately I'm in the north and by asking around my peers, nobody seems to understand especially the "va". Here is either "co" or "khong"... nothing more or less. Well... thanks for sharing anyway. ( start tuning my brain now ).

1f923.svg
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