Troubled and Confused

For sure you have real concern.  Not knowing the details of both sides thus not fair to give any opinions.  But generally speaking when there is love there will be time regardless of how busy or exhausted couples are.

G'day and welcome to the forum.
Cut your losses and walk away.   I've lost count of the number of times I've seen the same thing.

I personally know several blokes that had EXACTLY the same situation as you.  It doesn't work mate .    She's got you on the hook as a "life boat" .  She'll continue to shop herself around the bars looking for a higher bidder.  If she can hook a schmuck that's in a better financial position than you , your old news.     But you won't find that out until you've thrown more cash on the fire.

Do you send her money ??  Why does she need to work at a Bar ??   I'm surprised she actually told you that....unless she was working in a Bar when you met her.  If that's the case , welcome to  "suckerville".

Have you got earplugs......because when you tell her your ditching the immigration process she'll squeal like a stuck pig.  She'll have you on the guilt trip to hell.     Let's hope there's no children involved , you don't want to be an "anchor daddy" . You'll be emotionally blackmailed for the rest of your life.

However, if your the desperate, dateless & lonely type......there's a very good chance your going to be "played" for all your worth and then kicked to the curb like the rest of them.   It's a funny thing, but most of those guys all seem to look the same.   Easy prey & low hanging fruit.

Don't be one of them.

The odds aren't in your favour marrying Bar girls & the like.   There are blokes here I know that have married local girls, taken them back to their countries and the wives are STILL active on singles dating sites.     If your an old dude, and she's still got her youth to trade, it won't be long before your fleeced of your wealth & traded in on a younger stud with many more years on the clock in earning potential. 

It makes sound business sense..    I don't blame the girls at all.

Yogi just wishes he was a bit prettier & wasn't born with balls.

Yogi has balls.

Yoda0807 wrote:

Yogi has balls.

Ha ha ha ...good one Yoda.

They can be a problem though....they can be a very expensive piece of anatomy.

Just ask Tiger Woods, Bill Clinton , Boris Becker and a host of movie stars that have written cheques , or lost jobs over those two little things.

By the way,,, a little bit of trivia.
Do you know why one ball hangs lower than the other ?

So they don't bang together.    It's true ...google it.

Sorry for being off topic , but if there are blokes out there wondering why that is so....there's ya answer.

My view is that, on the info supplied, the OP should cut his losses and walk away. A week of heavy drinking might help ease the pain.

Yogi007 wrote:

Cut your losses and walk away.   I've lost count of the number of times I've seen the same thing..

Zero out of ten for care, subtle and diplomacy.
Prob a lot higher score for accuracy.

Been there, dun that.

Don't even bother about divorce etc, just cut contact. I'm surprised the girl is behaving like this though with a US green card on the table ? Cut off the money you are sending her, cut contact and see what happens

It is very difficult for a foreigner to determine if a girl is legitimate or not. The only thing you have to go on is consistent behaviour over time...would she stick by you if you were bankrupted ?

Agree with above comments.

Once they get into the bars they are paid a lot of attention by the customers, this gives them a sense of being special. If you have seen a drastic change in her as you said, cut the contact and try to move on.

I think long distance relationship always like this. But if you married bar girl no wonder you will get a bunch of bones....  Just better you should cancel the immigration process & cut off contact.

Coll-wing wrote:

I think long distance relationship always like this. But if you married bar girl no wonder you will get a bunch of bones....  Just better you should cancel the immigration process & cut off contact.

Go and read it again, you have misread the post.

colinoscapee wrote:

Coll-wing wrote:

I think long distance relationship always like this. But if you married bar girl no wonder you will get a bunch of bones....  Just better you should cancel the immigration process & cut off contact.

Go and reread it, you have misread the post.

I have read it well I mean IF YOU MARRIED BAR GIRL, it means he didn't mention the whole story, and we do not know about her, but normally in Vietnam none of the choice working in the bar, if they do not have any experience about the bar.

He never married a bar girl. They got married and after he returned to America she took a job in the bar. Thats what was written.

the opening post implies he married the girl before she started working nights in a bar...

panda7 wrote:

the opening post implies he married the girl before she started working nights in a bar...

Thats what I read, its obvious Coll Wing is reading something else.

Yoda0807 wrote:

Yogi has balls.

You beat me to it.............Tell it like it is I always say.................Op,  its very easy for these 'sweet' girls to get caught up in the bar scene - there are hundreds of punters out here that 'make them feel pretty, and wanted'    even buy them apartments, motorcycles, take them on international vacations etc etc.  Something you have not done just coming to see her every three months or so.   Sorry, from the way she answers you, if true,  I feel you have lost her. 

True Story  -  My "Sweet" niece (whom me & wife paid for education, english, french classes as well) came here to work (Saigon) and in seven years, she owns four condo's she is renting out and has two other houses in District 3.  All from foreigners that were in long distance relations with her as the neice's mother encouraged it.   I thought my wife would go ballistic when she found out, but surprisingly, this is an accepted practice.  My niece's suitors are an American, a Singapore Chinese, a Japanese, a Frenchman, and a Ukranian Pilot for Vietnam airlines.  All knew what was up when they started, and only visit a few times a year.     Who am I to judge??  she is a beautiful young woman and pretty smart one at that  -  and, she owns more property than I do  (hahaha)  Moral  of this story is sometimes relationships here wind up as 'just business transactions',  accept it.

the opening post doesn't even mention she works in a bar...

once the behaviour changes you need to take a big step back...don't try and rationalise it or even work out what it is. the likely thing is she has a new boyfriend and is in 2 minds about going to the US or staying with the new boyfriend. just abort...

Forgot to mention, my Niece met all these men in upper crust Night clubs, not the bars in Pham Ngu Lau or Bui Vein........but bars never the less.  Saigon has that effect on innocent, sweet Vietnamese girls (haha)

If you want to catch the big fish, you don't go fishing in a puddle.

tunnelrat69 wrote:

Forgot to mention, my Niece met all these men in upper crust Night clubs, not the bars in Pham Ngu Lau or Bui Vein........but bars never the less.  Saigon has that effect on innocent, sweet Vietnamese girls (haha)

Blue Vein, you say?

Yogi007 wrote:

Yoda0807 wrote:

Yogi has balls.

Ha ha ha ...good one Yoda.
By the way,,, a little bit of trivia.
Do you know why one ball hangs lower than the other ?
So they don't bang together.    It's true ...google it.

Since "retirement" I've spent the last 18 months wondering about that.  Thanks Yogi.  I can always go to you for profound thoughts during the HOT afternoons in SG.

tunnelrat69 wrote:

Forgot to mention, my Niece met all these men in upper crust Night clubs, not the bars in Pham Ngu Lau or Bui Vein........but bars never the less.  Saigon has that effect on innocent, sweet Vietnamese girls (haha)

Names and addresses please.  Anyone cares to join a 'high and low' retiree for a drink there?  First one is on me.

Back on topic ...
@laststanding, there you have it.  Words from the battlefield.  Hope you are still standing.

OP, count yourself extremely lucky the immigration process is not finalized yet! This is a blessing in disguise. As others have suggested, cancel the immigration process as soon as you can, drink half a bottle of Vodka (Whiskey will do) and click "next". I am surprised she is/was not smart enough to show her true colors only *after* having a US VISA. It's easy for her to hook men (and I'm sure she hooked one or two guys recently) but only a few will go through the immigration process.

So there ya go, one more reason to dump her is her lack of intelligence and ambition ;-)

Hey Yogi, thanks for the reply back on the subject. Here is a little info on the back story information. When we meet she was a school teacher and not much of a bar / club type. She perfered to hang out at home or a local coffee shop. I meet and stayed many times with her and her parents. She never asked for money or expected me to buy her anything. The few times she did ask, it was something she really needed. We dated a very long time before we got married and had a great time together. But about six months ago She started working at a bar to get more money for when she moved to the US with me. Her teaching job was not paying much and she wanted better pay. It seems since she started working at the bar, her attitude changed. I'm thinking the other girls there have filled her head with crazy ideas. Many of the girls at her bar are now in their 30's and have kids. Me and my wife don't plan on having kids for a few years. I'm not a old man or desperate in any way. I meet her when I was working in Vietnam. I take your opinion seriously and understand the view. That's why I asked on this post. I know what your saying, seen it myself to. My wife is a amazing woman. I'm just afraid she has let herself fall into a bad situation where others have influenced her down the wrong path.

Bad luck. Everyone changes, some fast, some slow.
Generally: Asians are not direct with bad news; they expect you to read their minds so they don't disappoint anyone.
Based on your side of the story, her body language is saying either she is out, or halfway out. The reason doesn't matter. Your attitude about your relationship has gone from normal, to wondering, wondering... 

Suggestion: Test her
You are the man, be a leader. Decision time. You don't want to be with someone who makes you wonder and doubt. You don't let others control your life. Don't settle. Don't grovel.

Don't contact her. Suspend the interview process and money transfers. (Interesting you don't even mention this aspect.)
When she gets around to contacting you, just say you decided it isn't a good time now. Because you  have doubts. Because you do, be honest.
Throw a spanner in the works.
Will she be sad? Angry? Say that you have changed? Threaten?
Report back what happens next.

Robot: thank you for the reply! The good thing is I recently did exactly what you suggested. I stepped up and put the hammer down. I didn't contact her for a week, not replying to her messages. Her messages after a week became frantic and apologetic. After week of her messages I finally replied that I had a lot to think about with our relationship. I told her I had plans on suspending immigration process, removing her access to bank funds and not returning to Vietnam for several months. I laid all my concerns on the table and pulled no punches.  Let's just say the results were dramatic! Since then she quit her bar job, stopped giving me the diva attitude and now validates where , why and what she is doing. She contacts me regularly and many times send pictures or video calls. Guess being straight forward and control the situation was the right medicine. But we will have to see if this lasts.

Just a big warning here: she started lacking respect for you and you had a chance to see a big side of her personality even before she even set foot in the US. Now, imagine once she has nothing to gain from receiving help from you. You have not fixed any problem, you simply kicked the can down the road. I hope you can learn from what happened to prevent total disaster.

WillyBadly:  Yes I agree, it's something I'm considering. I plan to delay and rest her more to see her responses to me holding back. I also plan on testing her more to make sure she is be truly honest.
Thanks

Good move, let's not forget, they can be very good actresses.

You are, it would appear, missing the forest for the trees. You don't have to be a police detective to see where this is going.  I read the Thai expat website and I've come across several similar stories there.  Many Asian women, esp. in lower income levels, are in survival mode. You are a ticket out of their situation. Sadly I've heard about cases where once these women get to a western country, they leave their husbands at some point. Of course, there are loving relationships: Only you can decide if yours is one of them.

Good move mate., but turn those plans into reality. 

CUT OFF THE $$$,  tell her you've suspended the Visa application, and you won't be returning to Vietnam every 3 mths as you've been doing.

As others have said here, they are VERY good actors.   Their survival and path in life here is highly dependant on deceitful means.   It's all there in front of them every day.  They are constantly seeing wealth & life progression created through corrupt deceptive behaviour.   This is one of those places were "nice guys" get stepped on & screwed over.

She can't be too bright can she.   Here's a guy who's married her, sending her money and getting a Visa application for a shift to the United States ......and she decides to "bet that" against the lowest card in the pack , being a Bar girl hostess, earning peanuts.    What a dumb bitch.

She's getting money that you send, & would eventually get a Job in the US that would pay more in a MONTH, what she'd earn in a YEAR in that shitty Bar.🤓     BUT then again , if she's on the "game" and your not the only sucker on the string  , maybe that Bar job is paying dividends.

Either way,, she's either totally stupid, OR she's playing you for a fool & keeping you tied up to the dock as a "lifeboat" incase nothing better comes along in the meantime.

Yogi looks at it this way.

What do they bring to the table that you can't buy at any barber shop for $20.   I've paid more for disposable razors. 😆

It's all a game here.....and WE  hold  the Aces......but when you see the number of blokes here getting their snouts rubbed into the dirt , you'd think it was the other way around.

We all know what their "trump card" is worth (see above) but dopey bastards come here & bet a house against it. 😳

Cut the rope & sail away buddy.

Just read on another forum of an Aussie guy who just found out his gf,who was supposed to be back in her hometown looking after her sick father, is actually in Japan with another guy. Having looked at pics of this girl I'm not surprised, she looks like a total tramp.

Some guys do take awhile for the penny to drop.

The OP has me a little confused.  It is difficult for me to understand how a school teacher who is married and likely going to live and work in the USA would take a job in a bar.  Your first mistake, you should have told her flat out, no bar job or it is over.  Second mistake, actually let her work in a bar. 

Based on my experiences and the people in my VN family (inlaws and extended) and friends, nobody works in a bar and truthfully, it would not be allowed.  I am sure it still happens behind closed doors, but the people I know, they all work normal jobs (e.g., teacher, accountant, banking, retail, etc.) and normal hours.  People wake up early, work all day and usually in bed by 10pm.  I am not aware of any of these people working at a bar, night club or even night hours.

However, VN women are very smart when it comes to relationships and they do test you, even when you do not know it.  If you have not figured that out over 4 years, you might want to do some soul searching and figure out how and when she tested you.  Thus, it is possible she was testing you when she proposed working in a bar.  You should have flat out said no way jose and end of story.  Maybe you did disagree, but she ended up working in a bar.  Put yourself in her shoes, what would you think if the roles were reversed and she allowed you to do the same?  Understand?

When I met my wife, she worked for a large european multinational company in VN and sometimes they would travel to other cities in VN to promote new store openings or products.  It was not easy for me since I did not live in VN, but she made sure to video call with me when she got to the hotel, when she was actually working in the store etc.  Early in our relationship, the company wanted to send a group of them to promote a store opening in Cambodia and I let her know that I was not happy.  But knowing the company well and all her coworkers, it was ok, but I  still let her know my concerns.  Of course she completely understood and she actually stayed only 1 day and returned on her own, left her coworkers, supervisor etc. because she did not want me to worry.  Yes, that helped, but not living in VN, it was not easy.  However, the company opened a new store in bangkok and of course, the Management team wanted their team to go to Bangkok.  I did not know about it until she told me.  but when she told me, she said that she refused to go.  She told her supervisor that basically no way in hell was she going to bangkok, even if it meant she would lose a very good paying corporate job.  Her supervisor did not give her a hard time and she did not go.  She told me she refused to go because she knew that it would be a big problem with me. 

I tell you that story because that is what a normal good girl does for the man she loves and cares for.  Thus, I am at a complete loss as to why a school teacher would take a job in a bar, irrespective of coming to the USA or not. 

Let me give you my perspective if I were in your shoes.  If my wife said to me that she wanted to work in bar, even if I said no, disagreed, but in the end, she ended up working in a bar.  I sincerely believe she would have lost respect for me.  How could I let her work in a bar when she had a normal job?  In addition, the family, the neighbors etc., nothing good would come from it.  It would have been a complete disaster and it would have been over, no exception.

I cannot tell you what to do or even give advice because it just makes no sense to me.  What I can imagine, family or extended family may have encouraged her to do this for their own monetary gain.  You are not there so it is difficult for you to stop the encouragement from those next to her.  if you really think she is a good girl, loves you and wants to care for you for life, get her to the USA and see how she behaves.  Once she is in the USA, you should have more influence than the people in VN and you need to be a man and tell her how it is and be honest.  Remember, there is a 2 year trial period so if she is not the woman you thought she was, you can ship her back to VN. 

Bar girls were considered prostitutes when I grew up here.  They're still being seen more or less the same way now in most Vietnamese families. 

A single young woman from any good family would not work in a bar for it would have ruined her chance at marriage.  A married woman would work in a bar *only* when she has a layabout good-for-nothing bum for a husband and no other financial resources to support her family.  Why do you think there are so many street food vendors all over the country?  Because it's the first course of action people considered when they needed to find an honest way to earn a living.

I question the scenario in which your wife suddenly chucked her respected teaching job, then donned some sexy outfits to go mingle with strange men every night without facing outcries from her family.  (I assume she has parents, sibling, or relatives who live nearby?)  I don't go for the bad peer influence stuff unless she is a young 'un who is still wet behind the ears.  Since she was in a relationship for 4 years before marrying a foreigner, she can't be that gullible.

Even if you did not support her financially (I want to meet a poor Asian wife who would allow her foreigner husband to do that), her family would have been the first to tell her to contact you for money instead of agreeing/allowing her to go her foolish way.

The popular guess on this thread has been that she's stringing you along while hunting for better options, and a job at the bar is where she hopes to find her man/men.  It's not an illogical guess, but I don't think it fits the case here. 

The ultimate goal for a poor woman (not just Vietnamese in particular or Asians in general, but count Eastern European women in the number as well) is to find a rich (or relatively rich) man who is willing to support her.  Your wife has already found you.  The trip to freedom is already in the process.  Unless she no longer wants to be married to you, she has no reason to find herself another man. 

If she wants to stay in the marriage but not moving to the States, if she rather be in a long distance relationship while continuing to enjoy the financial benefit, she would have told you she would miss her family too much and could she just wait for a while before joining you.  In the mean time, she would have used your money to *go to* bars to meet men, instead of *working in* a bar and risk losing your support.  Which way do you think is easier and better in her (or any sane people's) mind? 

Some posters here have said that your wife is in want of brain and common sense.  She might be that, but her friends (whom you think have influenced her) cannot *all* be in lack of street smart, and working in a bar is not a good scheme even to semi-illiterate people.

I'm not saying you're telling tales, but I do agree with Dreamer that something is definitely off in the ins and outs of this strange story.

tunnelrat69 wrote:

True Story  -  she owns four condo's she is renting out and has two other houses in District 3.  All from foreigners that were in long distance relations with her as the neice's mother encouraged it.   I thought my wife would go ballistic when she found out, but surprisingly, this is an accepted practice.  My niece's suitors are an American, a Singapore Chinese, a Japanese, a Frenchman, and a Ukranian Pilot for Vietnam airlines.  All knew what was up when they started, and only visit a few times a year.  Moral  of this story is sometimes relationships here wind up as 'just business transactions',  accept it.

That's a common story and yes, an acceptable practice, not only in Vietnam but in many civilised countries as well.  I personally knew a couple French women, an Italian woman, and more than a handful American women whose relationships have richly endowed them with financial security well into their old ages.  Your niece's suitors's eyes were wide opened when they agreed to a relationship with her, and evidently everyone was happy with the exchange, no one was troubled or confused. (Sorry, couldn't stop myself  ) 

It's not the same, or it seems to be very different from the story on this thread.  I'm not certain that both parties in this story saw eye to eye in their expectations.  Many things that should have said, were not, and the negative feelings were suppressed until they became a problem.

laststanding wrote:

feel free to express opinions

Here are my questions and opinions, expressed freely as you asked:

-  You wrote:  "She never asked for money or expected me to buy her anything. The few times she did ask, it was something she really needed. About six months ago She started working at a bar to get more money for when she moved to the US with me. Her teaching job was not paying much and she wanted better pay."

This is the same woman who didn't ask or expect anything from you unless she really needed it.  So, when she announced her needs instead of asking, why didn't you help her find a way to achieve her goal?  What did you think she would do to find money when your reply was a profound silence?  I assume you didn't reply since you didn't mention it.

-  You wrote: "It seems since she started working at the bar, her attitude changed. I'm thinking the other girls there have filled her head with crazy ideas."

There is a Vietnamese proverb that goes like this: "Gần mực thì đen, gần đèn thì sáng", which is the equivalence of the English proverb "Who keeps company with the wolf will learn to howl."  I want to know why you waited until your wife became a frequent visitor to a wolf's den before you complained about her howling. 

-  You wrote:  "she tells me she is to tired to discuss it and I'm over reacting."

I don't think you overreacted, but I do think you took *too long a time* before reacting, and by that time, your reaction perhaps had become a complain that wouldn't make her happy at all. 

-  You wrote:  "I stepped up and put the hammer down."

Why used a hammer when you could have used your brain and your cooperation some 6 or 8 months ago?   

-  You wrote:  "I didn't contact her for a week, not replying to her messages. Her messages after a week became frantic and apologetic. After week of her messages I finally replied that I had a lot to think about with our relationship. I told her I had plans on suspending immigration process, removing her access to bank funds and not returning to Vietnam for several months."

I know it was what other posters advised you to do, but frankly, my dear, it's drastic in a rather immature way. 

Yes, you forced her to the wall until she became frantic.  Did that solve the TRUE problem that the two of you should have worked together to find a solution before she took the bar job?  It's still there.

If you wanted to see her squirm like a worm, then yes, you've succeeded, but how she looks at you in the future, with love and respect or fear and anxiety, do you care at all to find out?

-  You wrote:  "I laid all my concerns on the table and pulled no punches.  Let's just say the results were dramatic! Guess being straight forward and control the situation was the right medicine."

That decisive action should have been done immediately when she expressed her concern and told you of her plan.  The result would have been a cake instead of medicine.  Communication, cooperation, and empathy are very important factors in all good relationships.  Practice them often and hopefully your marriage will be a long lasting one.

Please listen to these posters. I also subscribe to a Thai expat newsletter. I see LOTS of posts about a situation similar to yours often. Stunningly, when I attended an international high school in Korea, the problem was American GI's who married local girls, only to be saddened when things weren't the same once they returned to the US. Now that the Korean economy is booming, I suspect these incidents are less frequent (It also has happened with Russian girls as well.)  What these girls do is oft SOP (Standard Operating Procedure.)
   Please s-l-o-w things down ... SPEND A LOT OF TIME with her in VN. Anyone can be "good" long distance or just for a while.
   Once she has a Green card and gets you to pay for her trip to the West, you could be in for a surprise in a year or two. I love Asia & have Asian friends and currently mentor a young Asian couple in my hometown. I also am 1/4 myself (not VN.) My grandfather jumped ship once he landed in the US. So, Asian women aren't the only opportunists. Years ago in an intentionally unnamed Asian country, 4H or FFA (Future Farmers of America) sponsored 20-some farmers. About 3/4's fled into the America diaspora.  THIS YEAR, several MILITARY PILOTS from an Arab country (Iraq, Afghanistan, e.g.) disappeared once their training was over in the US. Do you see a pattern?  (The only westerners fleeing illegally into Asia seem to be pedophiles or criminals on the run.)
   It's not that some Asian women are evil -- they're trying to move up the food chain. Its called "survival" or "improving one's situation" as best as they can with what little resources they have (sex, beauty, flirtation).
Why are refugees flooding into Westen Europe or across the US border? Because they want the opportunities there. Supposedly so does she. Yours might be the romance of the century, but as they say, "Trust but verify."
   Good luck. HAVE A SEPARATE BANK ACCOUNT even in the US.

Good point Howie, I have a separate account here in VN to my wife, she never asks about what I have.

HyperHowie wrote:

Please listen to these posters. I also subscribe to a Thai expat newsletter. I see LOTS of posts about a situation similar to yours often. Stunningly, when I attended an international high school in Korea, the problem was American GI's who married local girls, only to be saddened when things weren't the same once they returned to the US. Now that the Korean economy is booming, I suspect these incidents are less frequent (It also has happened with Russian girls as well.)  What these girls do is oft SOP (Standard Operating Procedure.)
   Please s-l-o-w things down ... SPEND A LOT OF TIME with her in VN. Anyone can be "good" long distance or just for a while.
   Once she has a Green card and gets you to pay for her trip to the West, you could be in for a surprise in a year or two. I love Asia & have Asian friends and currently mentor a young Asian couple in my hometown. I also am 1/4 myself (not VN.) My grandfather jumped ship once he landed in the US. So, Asian women aren't the only opportunists. Years ago in an intentionally unnamed Asian country, 4H or FFA (Future Farmers of America) sponsored 20-some farmers. About 3/4's fled into the America diaspora.  THIS YEAR, several MILITARY PILOTS from an Arab country (Iraq, Afghanistan, e.g.) disappeared once their training was over in the US. Do you see a pattern?  (The only westerners fleeing illegally into Asia seem to be pedophiles or criminals on the run.)
   It's not that some Asian women are evil -- they're trying to move up the food chain. Its called "survival" or "improving one's situation" as best as they can with what little resources they have (sex, beauty, flirtation).
Why are refugees flooding into Westen Europe or across the US border? Because they want the opportunities there. Supposedly so does she. Yours might be the romance of the century, but as they say, "Trust but verify."
   Good luck. HAVE A SEPARATE BANK ACCOUNT even in the US.

they've been together for 4 years and married for 1 1/2 years already...