Residency + debt

Kieran Paget wrote:

Hi there does anyone know if £6k debt would affect my residency application, im unsure it would it is being paid of in installments but if it will affect my application would it be worth paying it off in a chunk, im unsure how to approach the situation i was filling my form in for pre brexit and came across the debt question and just seeking a little advice tyia

I wasn't asked any of these questions.

If it's in the UK, I doubt they would know anything about it.

Kieran Paget wrote:

Hi there does anyone know if £6k debt would affect my residency application, im unsure it would it is being paid of in installments but if it will affect my application would it be worth paying it off in a chunk, im unsure how to approach the situation i was filling my form in for pre brexit and came across the debt question and just seeking a little advice tyia

It shouldn't affect it, and this is the first time I am hearing about it. I have worked closely with people across Europe due to Brexit and this is news to me. As Mr Fluffy has said unless it's Hungarian Debt I wouldn't worry. Even then I am not sure that would matter.

A lot of people have debts.... mortgages, student loans, loans from banks to buy a car etc...

Main thing for any country is not to create a financial burden, however if before Brexit should really not be a consideration, getting financial benefits its of course another matter.
I think a statement you will not try to get Hungarian benefits really should be fine.

SimCityAT wrote:

....

A lot of people have debts.... mortgages, student loans, loans from banks to buy a car etc...

Yes, I don't know what forms are asking about this.   I certainly didn't fill in any forms.  Maybe we need a link to see what this is about - if it's something to do with the immigration office.

When I went to the BMBAH (immigration) office, I just handed over my documents and they did their thing.  I had to sign but that's normal enough.  They gave me a copy of the entry in the register.  But it doesn't contain anything about my finances.

Im thinking maybe the online form is diffrent, there is alot of stuff on the online form i dont even need to fill out because  brexit but the debt one isnt one ot them, i cant show  you the form neither as the copy i have is all filled in

Kieran Paget wrote:

Im thinking maybe the online form is diffrent, there is alot of stuff on the online form i dont even need to fill out because  brexit but the debt one isnt one ot them, i cant show  you the form neither as the copy i have is all filled in

Are you sure you have to fill that in?   Have you got a link to the original source of this form?


Under the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement  (WA) ending 31 Dec 2020, you can register without any reference to your status - health status, employment, finance or wot not.  Those that are registered can swap their registration cards for permanent residence cards.  And they don't have to prove anything.

The question for BMBAH should be if you were legitimately in-country before the 31 Dec 2020 and should have the WA rules applied to your registration.

I wasn't registered last year, i just have the tenancy that we talked about, i can't find original form i am looking though.

If they were not aware you were in the country before 31/12/20 you effectively have been here illegally. So you should be applying for a D Visa.

SimCityAT wrote:

If they were not aware you were in the country before 31/12/20 you effectively have been here illegally. So you should be applying for a D Visa.

My information is that's not correct.

Tourists can stay here for up to 90 days in 6 months.

According to BMBAH's web site, if you can prove you were here (not necessarily all the time) before 31 Dec 2020, it's up to BMBAH's discretion to allow you to register before the end of 2021. Proof is a bit variable but it could include - for example - a rental agreement for an apartment.

Look here: Link to post-2020 Brexit registration

Note there it says:

A UK national who can credibly substantiate to have habitually resided in the territory of Hungary before 1 January 2021 and holds a valid travel document, but cannot prove his/her Hungarian residence with a valid registration certificate is entitled to national permanent residence permit according to the above mentioned. In this case habitual Hungarian residence may, in particular, be verified by:

a) a contract of employment;

b) a document to verify student status;

c) an apartment lease agreement;

d) in case of a long-lasting medical care, a certificate of the institution providing medical treatment;

e) a certificate evidencing regular income based on activities carried out in Hungary

Anyone with a valid registration card (these are EEA cards here), can obtain a PR card WITHOUT proof of health, employment etc.  They will swap it.  Unusually,  it's free too.

It says at BMBAH (my highlighting):

Starting from 1 January 2021, UK citizens and their family members living in Hungary before the end of the transition period – as beneficiaries of the Withdrawal Agreement – are eligible for obtaining a national permanent residence permit without examining the criteria for the duration of their preceding stay, existence of Hungarian residence, means of subsistence or health insurance.

The new residence status is based on the documents certifying the preceding legal residence in Hungary.

The last sentence is saying that an existing registration card is evidence of the legal residence.

Ahh Sorry, I am thinking of like most of the EU, you have to be registered in the country if you were staying over 3 months. This is the problem they had in Spain. They had not registered so when it came for them to apply for permanent residency they were refused and asked to leave the country.

I asked my HU husband and he has no idea.
Perhaps things have changed since brit-ex and they now want to know more details about your  financial status?
I'm American and married to a HU citizen.
We had to show income,ownership of property in HU, bank statements both with our HU bank and US bank.
I had to sign papers stating I woud never ask for any gov. aid in Hungary.
I forgot exactly the min amount at the time which had to be put into our HU account for immigation, perhaps it was a min. of 2 million forints but that was over a decade ago.
They ask just about everything but your blood type.
To be on the safe side, if you are able to, then just pay if off and put in behind you.

I haven't been there got stuck back in the uk due to covid still have the original tenancy though, ive been back this year but on the pretense that i was allowed 90 days so haven't over stayed that, i have only been allowed in Hungary since August unfortunately.

SimCityAT wrote:

Ahh Sorry, I am thinking of like most of the EU, you have to be registered in the country if you were staying over 3 months. This is the problem they had in Spain. They had not registered so when it came for them to apply for permanent residency they were refused and asked to leave the country.

You do have to register if present more than 90 days. But now, with Brexit, you have to leave and come back 3 months later.   Or get a visa as you say.

But yes, I remember the Spanish problem.  But not the same here where surprisingly they've been more flexible.  Highly unusual for me to be positive about public administration here.

The issue in Spain was indeed they didn't register for some reason or something was wrong.  If they had registered their presence and had the right docs then they should not have had a problem. 

But I also remember the registration authorities had screwed up and the airline was being ridiculous and of course, Boris and Co hadn't thought it through properly.  The latter of which we're still suffering from (i.e. fishing and NI).

But here in Hungary, the EEA registration card was issued on the spot and that was a done deal.  Once the decision is made, it's done and they cannot rescind it without huge problems.   

Anyways, the PR card will come in the post as it has a biometric aspect to it.   One has to go there to the BMBAH to have one's fingerprints scanned like a criminal (I don't like this idea at all).  But it's the same for Hungarians (except their ID cards are issued elsewhere).   I have to go to BMBAH to swap my EEA certificate by the end of this month.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

I asked my HU husband and he has no idea.
Perhaps things have changed since Brexit and they now want to know more details about your  financial status?
I'm American and married to a HU citizen.
We had to show income,ownership of property in HU, bank statements both with our HU bank and US bank.
I had to sign papers stating I woud never ask for any gov. aid in Hungary.
I forgot exactly the min amount at the time which had to be put into our HU account for immigration, perhaps it was a min. of 2 million forints but that was over a decade ago.
They ask just about everything but your blood type.
To be on the safe side, if you are able to, then just pay if off and put in behind you.

Paying off debt has to be the right way forward.

Brexit is very different to the normal 3CNs here.   There's no requirement to show anything about your status to immigration depending on your current registration.

It's because UK citizens had treaty rights to be here regardless.  This is something that has been been taken away from UK citizens over the period of Withdrawal. So now, instead of a right we now have to have permission.   

My fellow countrymen and especially that one called Boris have stabbed all British people in Europe in the back.  There are millions of us in the same position. After this year,   UK citizens will be 3CNs like everyone else. 

BTW, I'm applying for Mrs Fluffy to have UK rights but they are hopelessly inefficient and never hear from them.  I understand there are 500,000 applications backed up there.  Again, did Boris think about it?  Nope.

I am hoping the stupidity of these things will loosen up over time.  Looking back, I wish the UK had decided to reform the EU from within rather than run away.   But what's done is done, unfortunately.

Life sucks, in my life I never liked debts, of course there could be education (but in most domciles it will be accepted), having rent-arrears, other debts will be frowned upon (rightfully so). This really creates a risk of your receiving country (which I fully understand). Why do you go to Hungary, are you going married, a job, ...
If Married or a JOB should be fine if properly documented. Still bottom line I am suspicious on your post and what is behind. If you are honest really there should not be an issue.
Apologies to be so blunt.

I plan on studying there my gf lives i plan on doing coding for a year and live off my savings and then going to look for a job, i hsve no reason to lie because my debts are being paid monthly, debts are not rent related always besn on time wirh rent.

cdw057 wrote:

Life sucks, in my life I never liked debts, of course there could be education (but in most domciles it will be accepted), having rent-arrears, other debts will be frowned upon (rightfully so). This really creates a risk of your receiving country (which I fully understand). Why do you go to Hungary, are you going married, a job, ...
If Married or a JOB should be fine if properly documented. Still bottom line I am suspicious on your post and what is behind. If you are honest really there should not be an issue.
Apologies to be so blunt.

Debt here was a problem for many years.  There were no personal bankruptcy laws.  I think there are now.  It wasn't like the UK or USA where debt can be forgiven or written off or just managed.  Debts follow the debtor around.

Worst place is the Middle East.  If you cannot pay a debt, then it's better to leave the country asap.  Hence the abandoned cars in the Dubai airport car parks.  The cost of taking on an abandoned car there is so high, it's not worth doing it.

Are you perhaps too young? Of course love can be important, but your gf might support, alternatively might a few years in the UK, myself I moved around (but supported by my own job).
I do not understand, job market in the UK (and for that matter in Hungary) are great. What is the problem (your gf coming from the UK would be good for a few years, but if she support even better)

I am almost retired and I have requirements to life, but nothing is for free in this life.

cdw057 wrote:

Are you perhaps too young? Of course love can be important, but your gf might support, alternatively might a few years in the UK, myself I moved around (but supported by my own job).
I do not understand, job market in the UK (and for that matter in Hungary) are great. What is the problem (your gf coming from the UK would be good for a few years, but if she support even better)

I am almost retired and I have requirements to life, but nothing is for free in this life.

I've just arrived in the UK and I can see the labour market has changed and shortages have increased. 

Starbucks used to be full of Eastern Europeans (yay!) but now seems to be staffed by very young student or school types.  Looks like those who stayed are being rewarded by higher wages because of those leaving.

The supermarkets have most things but there are empty shelves in places - no delivery drivers.

My Dad told me he went to a pharmacy and it was shut - closed due to staff shortages.  Very unusual.

Fuel has rocketed up - it's now £1.48 a litre (600+ HUF/litre)

Looks like something has to give - increasing prices, staff shortages and empty shelves.  It's an economic scenario but what it is, I cannot put a label on yet.

I wasnt asked anything about finances when I recently updated my residency

anns wrote:

I wasnt asked anything about finances when I recently updated my residency

Yes, under the Withdrawal Agreement, there is no reference to finances, health care, employment status etc.

When you say recently updated, when do you mean?  In 2021?

Did you have the green EEA certificate/card?

And when you filled in the form for residence under the Withdrawal Agreement, how long did it take them to send your photo/smart residence permit/card?

fluffy2560 wrote:

anns wrote:

I wasnt asked anything about finances when I recently updated my residency

Yes, under the Withdrawal Agreement, there is no reference to finances, health care, employment status etc.

When you say recently updated, when do you mean?  In 2021?

Did you have the green EEA certificate/card?

And when you filled in the form for residence under the Withdrawal Agreement, how long did it take them to send your photo/smart residence permit/card?

Yes I did it on line initially in early August 2021 and I had to attend the Immigration Office within 10 days. It was just a formality to check the form and to complete the biometrics.
The only intrusive questions asked on the form were one about any criminal record and one about infectious deseases.
They sent my new residency card to my local post  office early September.
Our old Green EEA cards expire at the end of this year and I think we are supposed to just hand them in .
Overall the new card  lasts 5 years and gives us a few more rights such as we can leave the country for a few years without ending our residency.

I cant get the the brexit thing so going to have to do the long way round unfortunately.

Kieran Paget wrote:

I cant get the the brexit thing so going to have to do the long way round unfortunately.

Sounds like it's not going well.

anns wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

anns wrote:

I wasnt asked anything about finances when I recently updated my residency

Yes, under the Withdrawal Agreement, there is no reference to finances, health care, employment status etc.

When you say recently updated, when do you mean?  In 2021?

Did you have the green EEA certificate/card?

And when you filled in the form for residence under the Withdrawal Agreement, how long did it take them to send your photo/smart residence permit/card?

Yes I did it on line initially in early August 2021 and I had to attend the Immigration Office within 10 days. It was just a formality to check the form and to complete the biometrics.
The only intrusive questions asked on the form were one about any criminal record and one about infectious diseases.
They sent my new residency card to my local post  office early September.
Our old Green EEA cards expire at the end of this year and I think we are supposed to just hand them in .
Overall the new card  lasts 5 years and gives us a few more rights such as we can leave the country for a few years without ending our residency.

Interesting, they only asked me about the infectious diseases verbally.   Lucky I didn't mention Ebola.    They never asked me about my criminal record - which is good as I don't have one - yet.

The online thing didn't work for me.  We had to go to their office to get it sorted out and do the biometrics.   They told me only paper based documentation means anything to them.

So I'm awaiting the new residence card from what you are saying it takes about a month.  My issue is the green EEA cards not being recognised by the airport border guards outside of Hungary.

Looks like I'll have to wait it out.

Interesting how other countries do it, got asked none of what you have.  I did have my fingerprints taken.

SimCityAT wrote:

Interesting how other countries do it, got asked none of what you have.  I did have my fingerprints taken.

It looks like every EU member was left to interpret how to squidge their WA (Withdrawal Agreement) into their existing immigration processes.   

The HU non-WA application form is really intrusive - they want to know everything - education, CV, finances, all travel anywhere (who remembers that?) and blah-blah, just endless pages of bureaucracy.

For me the loss of the EEA card and issuing of the residence permit seems to be like a finalisation of the UK splitting from the EU.  We're just 3CNs now along with all the rest of the world. 

I used to think of the EU members not really being that different from each other and the entire EU belonged to all of us - including the British.     Meeting a French dude wasn't that much different to meeting someone from Greece.  We were all in the same boat. But this is over now.

I guess there's a sense of loss for me.