UK citizens

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Yes, final deadlines.  Not sure why they weren't consistent on dates across the countries.

I've got a reminder set for October to convert my registration card to the permanent registration document.  I am not sure what this will mean on a day to day basis.

I am not sure if this brings the Withdrawal Agreement interim arrangements to an end.   I wish BoZo had negotiated this at an pan EU level so our rights were not removed. 

That's the difference - we had rights before and now we only have permission.

When I get my 10-year residency card, I will have the same rights as any other EU citizen.

SimCityAT wrote:

When I get my 10-year residency card, I will have the same rights as any other EU citizen.


I hope you do. I have a 10 year perm residency card and sometimes things go slightly astray still.
I'm from the USA.
Are you a citizen of a 3rd country? If so you may be surprised how 2nd class some things still go for you.
One thing is when I recieved my 10 year card it came with some rules, like we still are not allowed out of HU for more then one year without informing immigration.
Don't think EU citizens have to report in like that.

Leaving a country even if full residency or being born there and leaving for a year. Leaving for a year is reportable and I even agree.
A year for tax-purposes only is already significant.

SimCityAT wrote:

When I get my 10-year residency card, I will have the same rights as any other EU citizen.


It's not the same though is it?   We had RIGHTS before and now we have PERMISSIONS.  As it stands now, our residence cards here post-Brexit are Hungary only and not EU level transferable.   That's despite being here for a long time.  The 10-year cards will only be permission, not treaty rights.

My understanding is that our registration certificates will become 5 years HU residence cards in line with the withdrawal agreement and then just the normal non-EU permanent cards thereafter with another 5 years.  After that, the EU version* will be issued every 10 years. 

It's really an annoyance.   BoJo was so keen to announce an agreement that he dismissed any claims it had more holes than Swiss cheese.  Or he thought he could paper over the cracks afterwards.

* the assumption is that Hungary will remain an EU member post-2022 election.

Hungary remaining  EU is an interesting question, but for me no doubt they will at remain until at least 2030.Hungarians also think about their pocket (rightfully so)

Life changes and even if being a resident in EU (or Schengen) things can be VERY different 10 years from now (south and north EU, abandoing of EURO, war (I think we should be grateful that nothing serious over the last 70 years (!!!).
I would feel quite comfortable in Georgia or Turkey (of course no guarantee), but feeling fully safe in the EU is also not a given.
I have had a good life without wat disease or hunger. Nothing to complain if to compare to prior generations.
Apologies to be rude but being able to travel from Hungary to GB or US in a way is already decadent (just compare with 200 years ago).

Sorry just being philosophical, my message is we have a GOOD LIFE.
(Most of us have good heating (better than the aristocracy of a few 100 years age, we have good food (even if no lamb in Hungary :) . clean water, we live beyond 50, ....

cdw057 wrote:

Hungary remaining  EU is an interesting question, but for me no doubt they will at remain until at least 2030.Hungarians also think about their pocket (rightfully so)


I am not so sure.    The HUexit fight has already begun. 

You may have  seen the anti-EU emoji billboards going up around the place.

Still receiving cash in balance is important, why throw away billions? Of course Dutch are horrible (drugs, gays, socialism, crime, ..), English (or should I say British also not too good, but definitely better than Dutch, ...).
In my view no way Hungary will leave EU before 2030 (I would not).

Sad in this world, money rules (BUT I also need money to live)

cdw057 wrote:

Life changes and even if being a resident in EU (or Schengen) things can be VERY different 10 years from now (south and north EU, abandoing of EURO, war (I think we should be grateful that nothing serious over the last 70 years (!!!).
I would feel quite comfortable in Georgia or Turkey (of course no guarantee), but feeling fully safe in the EU is also not a given.
I have had a good life without wat disease or hunger. Nothing to complain if to compare to prior generations.
Apologies to be rude but being able to travel from Hungary to GB or US in a way is already decadent (just compare with 200 years ago).

Sorry just being philosophical, my message is we have a GOOD LIFE.
(Most of us have good heating (better than the aristocracy of a few 100 years age, we have good food (even if no lamb in Hungary :) . clean water, we live beyond 50, ....


The word "decadent"  doesn't really work in this context.

It sounds like some scenario planning going on for what things will look like in 10 years. We have had a safe life relatively speaking for a very long time.  But that doesn't mean we have  to stop looking for an even better existence. 

My off the cuff scenario:

Good chance of more countries leaving the EU - Italy is one of them.  Hungary might too although it could just be that step too far for the Magyars.   

If one looks at the nationalist-cum-religious rhetoric across the world, people like Erdogan, Trump, Orban, Lu-Pu (Lukashenko-Putin) etc are becoming more irrelevant. Even in the USA, people want to forget Trump and move on.  Banging the same old drums is not going to work.   

There's a chance of war with China but perhaps economic war rather than military engagements.   China might invade Taiwan to bolster support at home.  It would be a stupid move. Then others would have to step in.   They don't need to invade Hong Kong or Macau. They already run it.

War with Iran looks likely too - oil prices will rise.  But Iran would be easily defeated in any shooting war and defeated quickly.  They are a fragmented society.  Their mismanagement of the water crisis there seems likely to cause huge internal strife. Perhaps even internal revolution will bring it down.

Exactly my point even if if different angle, we are old and have enjoyed the EU and its benefits (lets not take all for granted and be grateful of what we have or had). We are old and have enjoyed many things.

If there is a war (with viruses, atom bombs, ..), lets be grateful of what we had.
Travelling to the UK, Netherlands or US might be possible (or not), but my point is that it might be POSSIBLE. Life is good (on a relative basis)
For Ceasar going to the UK (even if conquered) would have been quite a challenge, at least a month of travelling (for us, just a few hours).
Also we have flushing toilets, sparkling water, concerts not even 20 minutes away, good food (I do not like ORANGES but my wife does (a few 100 years ago ...).

The real problem for me is, life is getting too expensive.
Still I have had a good life and a simple heart attack to end all would be quite fine.

cdw057 wrote:

Still receiving cash in balance is important, why throw away billions? Of course Dutch are horrible (drugs, gays, socialism, crime, ..), English (or should I say British also not too good, but definitely better than Dutch, ...).
In my view no way Hungary will leave EU before 2030 (I would not).


I  lived in NL for perhaps 7 years in total.  I would say the "live and let live" policy and individual responsibility works very well there.   If only the weather was better.

I've got some professional interest in this subject.

As for as HU goes, perhaps it's really about OV and friends staying in power and nothing to do with nationalism (this is just a vehicle to justify their remaining at the controls).  They can live without the EU money but they'd like it to distribute to their friends to consolidate their hold even at the expense of the population.  And of course they can easily avoid any investigations into their wealth by remaining in charge.  Eventually that isn't going to work so they should start moving their assets out of the country in preparation to run away (e.g. like Lukashenko - he's supposedly moving his assets of $1B  to Dubai, but no country  will take him in when his regime collapses).

41% of all government contracts are not open competition and are won by cronies of OV.

In particular the report says the grouping of MGTS  (OV cronies grouping - Mészáros, Garancsi,  Tiborcz,  Simicska and Co)  won 70% of public contracts during the pandemic.

Of course, the authors might have an axe to grind but their evidence and intelligence gathering seems quite robust.

cdw057 wrote:

Exactly my point even if if different angle, we are old and have enjoyed the EU and its benefits (lets not take all for granted and be grateful of what we have or had). We are old and have enjoyed many things.

If there is a war (with viruses, atom bombs, ..), lets be grateful of what we had.
Travelling to the UK, Netherlands or US might be possible (or not), but my point is that it might be POSSIBLE. Life is good (on a relative basis)
For Ceasar going to the UK (even if conquered) would have been quite a challenge, at least a month of travelling (for us, just a few hours).
Also we have flushing toilets, sparkling water, concerts not even 20 minutes away, good food (I do not like ORANGES but my wife does (a few 100 years ago ...).

The real problem for me is, life is getting too expensive.
Still I have had a good life and a simple heart attack to end all would be quite fine.


Oh that's like relative deprivation.    Like an accident scenario where  someone lost their leg but the other person was paralysed.   Someone would say losing a leg was a lucky escape.  Not really - they aren't necessarily related.

I am sure that people having heart attacks are not thinking, "it was a good life, it's the end, I'm OK with that".  I think the struggle to survive is likely to take up all one's capacity.

What can I say, I am now virtually 60, my dad was 39, both my granddads were 50 minus , indeed one of my grandmas managed to get over 60 and my own mom (miracle) is over 80 !!! (with problems of course). What I want to say is I have nothing to complain (on a relative basis). The fact that I have some health issues is fine (and accepted especially if there is no excessive pain (yet)).

Admittedly it is a bit off topic, but being alive above 50 is not too bad (and (of course if comes with some restrictions)).
Dutch verb after 50 no day without pain.

cdw057 wrote:

What can I say, I am now virtually 60, my dad was 39, both my granddads were 50 minus , indeed one of my grandmas managed to get over 60 and my own mom (miracle) is over 80 !!! (with problems of course). What I want to say is I have nothing to complain (on a relative basis). The fact that I have some health issues is fine (and accepted especially if there is no excessive pain (yet)).

Admittedly it is a bit off topic, but being alive above 50 is not too bad (and (of course if comes with some restrictions)).

Dutch verb after 50 no day without pain.


We should take this to Absolutely Anything Else.

Haven't you heard? 60 is the new 50. I'm about a year older than you.   

Certainly I don't feel something silly like 30 but I don't feel over 60 either.  I think my mental age might be about 42 or thereabouts.  My kids probably think my mental age is about 12 on some days.  But I feel I'm entitled to laugh at my own jokes even if the kids are laughing at me because of I'm laughing about myself.   They should appreciate it. "Dad moments" I suppose

I was watching a Star Trek movie the other day and Dr McCoy said he didn't feel a day over 120.  Let's hope for more of whatever he was having.

My Dad is 97 and his mind is perfectly fine but his body is beginning to fail but not by that much.  I hope for such genes.

cdw057 wrote:

Life changes and even if being a resident in EU (or Schengen) things can be VERY different 10 years from now (south and north EU, abandoing of EURO, war (I think we should be grateful that nothing serious over the last 70 years (!!!).
I would feel quite comfortable in Georgia or Turkey (of course no guarantee), but feeling fully safe in the EU is also not a given.
I have had a good life without wat disease or hunger. Nothing to complain if to compare to prior generations.
Apologies to be rude but being able to travel from Hungary to GB or US in a way is already decadent (just compare with 200 years ago).

Sorry just being philosophical, my message is we have a GOOD LIFE.
(Most of us have good heating (better than the aristocracy of a few 100 years age, we have good food (even if no lamb in Hungary :) . clean water, we live beyond 50, ....


I don't think it is decandent to visit family overseas.
Most of us never would of left our own backyards if the world didn't offer a chance to see it.
I knew peple in Hawaii who never even crossed over to the other side of the Island.

To pull the rug up and change the rules mid game is not fair.
I suppose my ancestors in the US would be ,"Kings" now if not for the pesty white men coming over on ships and being so decandent and stealing everything worth stealing.
We all have our own challenges in life, every generations has no claim on having  it worst then the next.

In Austria, we have 2 cards, a 5 year and a 10 year. I can leave the country for 6 months if I have the 10 year card. I can leave the country for up to 5 years if I have the10 year.

So I have the same rights as an EU citizen (claim benefits, health insurance etc...) the only thing I don't have is freedom of movement. If I want to work in another EU country I have to apply for a visa. The other this is if I go visit the UK next year, I don't have to pay that €7 visa fee because I am exmpt.

SimCityAT wrote:

In Austria, we have 2 cards, a 5 year and a 10 year. I can leave the country for 6 months if I have the 10 year card. I can leave the country for up to 5 years if I have the10 year.

So I have the same rights as an EU citizen (claim benefits, health insurance etc...) the only thing I don't have is freedom of movement. If I want to work in another EU country I have to apply for a visa. The other this is if I go visit the UK next year, I don't have to pay that €7 visa fee because I am exmpt.


That's interesting about the time limits. I thought you could come and go as you please when in possession of the residence card. I am not sure it's the same here.  Being limited on time out of the country would be a serious impediment to commerce.

The freedom of movement was a right before and now no-one from the UK has that now.  So rights have been curtailed for us.  We have to apply for permission to have free movement.

ETIAS is not really a visa as many countries are visa exempt. It's a registration system for travel.

fluffy2560 wrote:

ETIAS is not really a visa as many countries are visa exempt. It's a registration system for travel.


Yeah, it's just 1 less form to fill out online. Although not travelled in COVID times, I can imagine we will have to be filling out forms left right centre for years to come.

In HU at least when I was going through the immigration process it was up to 3 months with a 5 year resident permit and now it is one year with a 10 year permit.
You need to inform immigration if you will be out of HU longer then allowed.
I have a rather odd sized perm resident card, too large to fit in ones pocket.
Suppose to carry your passort and that card at all times in public.
The free travel for peple in HU over age 65 is also not clear fr those even with perm resident cards.
If you are from a 3rd cunty as not a EU member country then you aren't really allowed free travel if you run int the wrong agent.
I have been hassled 2 times but my husband always argues with the agent and tell them he is not buying me a ticket no matter what and they can do their worst. He has a bunch of rules he carries around to prove his case that as a wife of a HU and as his dependent I am intitled to travel with him for free and even on my own.
He says it's against his rights as a citizen to put limits n me as I'm frm a 3rd country. The resident cards state which country you are a citizen of.
Always one sur apple in the bunch that likes to use their powers.
I think since the UK is no longer a EU member country then this applies to seniors from the UK now as well.
If my husband didn't speak and wasnt a HUngarian then I think it might be hard to get away from these over zealous agents.
My husband feels he is entilteld to this benefit as he worked hard for HU in his youth and he is a citizen here.
The 2 agents started with needing more paperwork called a settled down paper?
Theysay there is no agreement with none EU countries for this perk.
We argue that I live here full time and have met all requirments with immigration...And that they are infringing on my husband's rights as a HU citizen.
Just too much red tape that people from the EU don't have to deal with.
Most agents on the trains are nice and just wave us on but like I said there is always one rotten apple.
This is really about the only reason I'd even think about becoming a HU citizen , just to be left alone in peace.
Refugee seniors in HU from anywhere can travel for free but not the spouces of HU citizens? Something is really mixed up.

SimCityAT wrote:
fluffy2560 wrote:

ETIAS is not really a visa as many countries are visa exempt. It's a registration system for travel.


Yeah, it's just 1 less form to fill out online. Although not travelled in COVID times, I can imagine we will have to be filling out forms left right centre for years to come.


The ETIAS is valid for some years once issued.  It's like the US, Canadian and Australian ones. 

I have no idea if I will need one or not.

They keep delaying ETIAS and now I think it's end 2022 for operations.

fluffy2560 wrote:
SimCityAT wrote:
fluffy2560 wrote:

ETIAS is not really a visa as many countries are visa exempt. It's a registration system for travel.


Yeah, it's just 1 less form to fill out online. Although not travelled in COVID times, I can imagine we will have to be filling out forms left right centre for years to come.


The ETIAS is valid for some years once issued.  It's like the US, Canadian and Australian ones. 

I have no idea if I will need one or not.

They keep delaying ETIAS and now I think it's end 2022 for operations.


Yep, valid for 3 years. It's protected by the WA so you shouldn't need to have one.

This is quite funny, never liked her anyway.'This is spite!' Carole Malone slams EU for charging Brits to enter Europe

The UK had in fact voted for this with the rest back in 2016.

I am still hoping that the UK Gov will pay me for the hours I have spent sorting out their mess. Making a website, contacting local media and radio stations to get the word out. Roughly 5000 people still have not applied for the Card.

SimCityAT wrote:
fluffy2560 wrote:
SimCityAT wrote:


Yeah, it's just 1 less form to fill out online. Although not travelled in COVID times, I can imagine we will have to be filling out forms left right centre for years to come.


The ETIAS is valid for some years once issued.  It's like the US, Canadian and Australian ones. 

I have no idea if I will need one or not.

They keep delaying ETIAS and now I think it's end 2022 for operations.


Yep, valid for 3 years. It's protected by the WA so you shouldn't need to have one.

This is quite funny, never liked her anyway.'This is spite!' Carole Malone slams EU for charging Brits to enter Europe

The UK had in fact voted for this with the rest back in 2016.

I am still hoping that the UK Gov will pay me for the hours I have spent sorting out their mess. Making a website, contacting local media and radio stations to get the word out. Roughly 5000 people still have not applied for the Card.


Never heard of Carol Malone.

5000 people not applied in AT.  They will regret that.

My complaints will be practical - I will fly to LHR at the end of August and I am sure EU, US, Canadian, Japanese and others will be able to use the e-gates.   But coming back in or going out of here, I doubt it  we will be able to do that.

Brexit is going to cost plenty.  I just read airports in the UK are no longer going to be hubs for EU transport (unsurprisingly).  Goods will just go to Paris or Amsterdam or wherever.  There would be no reason to deliver goods to the UK for onward transmission.

Easy Jet moved over to Vienna.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

In HU at least when I was going through the immigration process it was up to 3 months with a 5 year resident permit and now it is one year with a 10 year permit.
You need to inform immigration if you will be out of HU longer then allowed.
I have a rather odd sized perm resident card, too large to fit in ones pocket.
Suppose to carry your passort and that card at all times in public.
The free travel for peple in HU over age 65 is also not clear fr those even with perm resident cards.
If you are from a 3rd cunty as not a EU member country then you aren't really allowed free travel if you run int the wrong agent.
I have been hassled 2 times but my husband always argues with the agent and tell them he is not buying me a ticket no matter what and they can do their worst. He has a bunch of rules he carries around to prove his case that as a wife of a HU and as his dependent I am intitled to travel with him for free and even on my own.
He says it's against his rights as a citizen to put limits n me as I'm frm a 3rd country. The resident cards state which country you are a citizen of.
Always one sur apple in the bunch that likes to use their powers.
I think since the UK is no longer a EU member country then this applies to seniors from the UK now as well.
If my husband didn't speak and wasnt a HUngarian then I think it might be hard to get away from these over zealous agents.
My husband feels he is entilteld to this benefit as he worked hard for HU in his youth and he is a citizen here.
The 2 agents started with needing more paperwork called a settled down paper?
Theysay there is no agreement with none EU countries for this perk.
We argue that I live here full time and have met all requirments with immigration...And that they are infringing on my husband's rights as a HU citizen.
Just too much red tape that people from the EU don't have to deal with.
Most agents on the trains are nice and just wave us on but like I said there is always one rotten apple.
This is really about the only reason I'd even think about becoming a HU citizen , just to be left alone in peace.
Refugee seniors in HU from anywhere can travel for free but not the spouces of HU citizens? Something is really mixed up.


Rules is rules.  We call those officious people "jobsworths" in the UK.  As in "it's more than my job's worth".   

Jobsworths happen in the UK as well on trains - for example if you bought a ticket from say London to Glasgow it'd cost you say £100 (that's a random amount) but if you bought a ticket from London to Preston and then another Preston to Glasgow, it might in total cost £50 using various deals.   

That used to be perfectly allowable and legal to use two separate tickets.   But hardly any of the ticket collectors knew that.  I believe it's changed now.

I'm afraid that Brexit has removed many of our rights. It's nothing but a PITA.   It could have been different if BoJo had negotiated it properly.

SimCityAT wrote:

Easy Jet moved over to Vienna.


Yes, that was a while ago.   

On the other hand, I cannot see them stopping them flying to the UK. 

Air travel has always been a complex business governed by treaties rather than individual country law.

Wizzair fly over my house all the time - they seem to be busy.

This is a better link https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/14 … 07209?s=20

SimCityAT wrote:

This is a better link https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/14 … 07209?s=20


Yes, much better.   What was the reason for Brexit again?

Owen Jones (who?) has perfectly reasonable logic even if the subject is annoying.

BoJo could have negotiated to have exemptions from ETIAS but chose not to.  Just another incompetent discussion like NI imports of sausages.   Kicking it into the long grass doesn't make it any less intractable.

BTW, potential crisis on the HU border soon - there will be a flood of Afghan refugees this year and next year if the Taliban keep going at their present rate.  I am surprised that this hasn't come up strongly in HU election politics yet.  Interesting thing is that UK and US are starting to bring in their former workers to the UK and US but will Hungary do the same?  Hungary had a presence there until this year.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

In HU at least when I was going through the immigration process it was up to 3 months with a 5 year resident permit and now it is one year with a 10 year permit.
You need to inform immigration if you will be out of HU longer then allowed.
....


I looked it up and you are absolutely right Marilyn. 

Permit description says (my highlighting):

"Uninterrupted  residence: residence  in  the  territory  of  Hungary  shall  not  be  considered
interrupted by temporary absence from the territory of Hungary of less than four consecutive
months at any given time, if the combined duration of the foreign national's absence does not exceed  two  hundred  and  seventy  days  over  a  period  of  three  years  before  the  application  is submitted. "


I can see this being a problem in the future.