Interested in a free Covid vaccine like Moderna?

I agree with earlier subscribers ... i.e. "check the facts" - if you look at this graph complied on 29th July ....
https://www.reportingasean.net/in-numbe … east-asia/
..... you will see Vietnam has only fully vaccinated 0.56% of it's population .....
Cambodia ... for example .... has vaccinated nearly 28% ... SIngapore over half....
I would be quite happy to PAY for the vaccination - the truth is it's very difficult to find in Vietnam unless ... having been selected ('behind closed doors') into a group or an area deemed (by some non-transparent process) as a priority. I am a Vietnam resident, married to a High School teacher (she's had one jab but not yet a second) ... I am 68 years old,  have taught English to hundreds of students over 5 years but cannot get the vaccine. I have contacted senior doctors(friends and students) in Hanoi and they cannot even get vaccine fr their parents. The first step I believe Vietnam should take is provide better and clearer information and guidelines about it's Vaccine policy including the criteria currently employed - so that we all know where we stand.
DeeBeee. :-)

My GF has just sent me this info from out local ward,,, from a facebook group
"NOTICE ON VACCINE AGAINST COVID-19 (EVERY 1) FOR PEOPLE AGE 18 TO BELOW 65 YEARS IN WARD 5, PHU NHUAN DISTRICT:
🌸 Ward 5 Covid-19 Prevention and Control Steering Committee will organize a vaccination against Covid-19 for citizens from 18 years old to BELOW 65 years old who are permanently and temporarily residing in the ward.
🌸 The injection site is at Cao Ba Quat Primary School (92 Phan Dang Luu), from 8:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m., from 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m., starting from August 2, 2021 until the allotted vaccine is used up.
🌸 Citizens will be notified by text message detailing the time and place when it is their turn to inject in order to participate fully and on time, ensuring that there are no crowds at the same time.
🌸When going for injection, please bring your ID/CCCD, health insurance card (if any). Individuals undergoing medical treatment please bring prescriptions or medical records. Women who are pregnant and breastfeeding should consider this before applying for injections. Before going in for injection, the doctor will do a health check before the injection to determine if it is possible to inject and will announce which vaccine will be injected.
⚠ In the face of the current complicated disease situation, people should be fully vaccinated if it's their turn to inject, and should not choose any vaccine because the vaccines used have all passed the health checks, ensuring health safety for the person being injected.
⚠It is recommended that people access the link that has been informed by the Ward People's Committee to register for injections. (Individuals who have already registered, please do not re-register)
⚠While waiting for the injection, people should maintain good health, minimize going out of the house when not absolutely necessary, strictly follow the Government's Directive 16 "person apart from person, house apart from home, who somewhere there". F0 cases and people in temporary blockade areas will postpone vaccination until a vaccination schedule is available for these subjects.
Source: Nguyen Vi Huu Canh"
looks like they are on a huge drive to get everyone vaccinated "The city will carry out vaccination for people aged 18 and over, regardless of subjects.  The policy of the city will not distinguish between permanent residence or temporary residence, just residing in the city will be vaccinated."
She found the info by going on facebook searching for "i'm in *** name of district" and looking for "NOTICE ON VACCINE AGAINST COVID-19" try looking for your area, she had no problems booking

Deebee
You are saying you want the officals to change how they think. Good luck with that. They are shutting down food processing companies in the Delta that are Covid free. Got a feeling they are now starting to panic.

I agree, particularly that we need to unite and demand our rights.

I have been an attorney in Saigon for 20 years. 

As Americans or Green Card Holders, we are all taxed on our Global Income pursuant to the IRS Code.  Even if you haven't put a foot on US soil in 15 years, you are still required to file and pay taxes on your global income--even if not a dime is sourced from the US.  Therefore, our Tax Dollars--just like any other American--were used to fund the R&D of the Vaccine. 

This is why Americans get the Vaccine for Free. 

For more than 30 years, the United States has been ignoring its own Expats, even though--as US Expats--we provide an essential service to the United States by facilitating US business and US commercial interests in Vietnam.  I am not saying that everyone does that, or that it's even necessary to do so; however, it's often the case.  For instance, although I work for a Vietnamese law firm, more than 1/2 of my clients are Americans.   

Interestingly, I have been hiring French Interns for the past 10 years.  Did you know that their Embassy and Consulate has imported enough Vaccine for all French Expats in Vietnam? 

I believe that as Americans, and as tax payers, we have an absolute right to free vaccine shots. 

I would be happy to assist anyone that is leading this effort.  It is critical that "we" speak with one voice.  I am surprised that the American Chamber of Commerce has not played a more significant role on this particular issue.  I do know that AMCHAM does play role whenever the issue of tax on foreign expats is raised.  I am much more interested in issues of social equity and health, and this is precisely the issue that is implicated when the US Consulate throws up its hands and says "we can do nothing for American Expats, you must get the vaccine according to Vietnamese law." 

In any case, does anyone have an idea?

I applaud you for your 6 point-comment, specially the 1st one.
I could not say it better.

I'm fortunate my Embassy made the efforts to provide us with vaccines. But honestly, before they did it I would not demand from them and would just register like any person living here.

A donation is free of conditions, else it is not a donation. Even the Chinese "donation" is not a genuine donation: vaccinate the Chinese first then you can take the leftover!

It's true Vietnam does not discriminate foreigner. Honestly, in terms of percentage, perhaps more foreigners have received the jabs than locals. Practically all teachers are vaccinated. In HCMC there are a lots of foreign teachers. Lots of my friends have also received the jabs. In my condo, all >65 year-old people are in the midst of receiving the jab, regardless their nationalities.

deebeee wrote:

...I am a Vietnam resident, married to a High School teacher (she's had one jab but not yet a second) ... I am 68 years old,  have taught English to hundreds of students over 5 years but cannot get the vaccine...

Are you in HCMC?  If so, it seems to me that you will be getting the vaccine soon.

The government has been fairly upfront about who is getting the vaccine first -- government officials, police, medical, critical industries, foreign officials -- and in HCMC now, they are working first in danger areas, then other neighborhoods, with priority for those over 65. Apparently they are already ready to vaccinate 18 and over in some areas.  The decision-making process has not been open, but they did tell us what they decided to do. 

The big limitation has always been the meager supply of doses, which is being alleviated quite a bit this month.

paulmsn wrote:

deebeee wrote:

...I am a Vietnam resident, married to a High School teacher (she's had one jab but not yet a second) ... I am 68 years old,  have taught English to hundreds of students over 5 years but cannot get the vaccine...

Are you in HCMC?  If so, it seems to me that you will be getting the vaccine soon.

I believe she is in Hanoi.
HCMC is rolling out info for all 18-65 to go get vaccine on their facebook pages search "im in *** district and look for "THÔNG BÁO VỀ VIỆC TIÊM VACCINE NGỪA COVID-19" (NOTICE ON VACCINE AGAINST COVID-19 ) for district and ward, you follow the link, fill in the info to book and go in when they contact, sister-in-law is in next disctrict over she booked sat and got it last night, Phu Nhuan is taking a few days to get a call to go in, local ward committee person says they are doing high case areas first Phu Nhuan is a low case area.
They are doing anyone temp or perm in the district VN or non VN.

elimazur wrote:

I agree, particularly that we need to unite and demand our rights.

I have been an attorney in Saigon for 20 years. 

As Americans or Green Card Holders, we are all taxed on our Global Income pursuant to the IRS Code.  Even if you haven't put a foot on US soil in 15 years, you are still required to file and pay taxes on your global income--even if not a dime is sourced from the US.  Therefore, our Tax Dollars--just like any other American--were used to fund the R&D of the Vaccine. 

This is why Americans get the Vaccine for Free. 

For more than 30 years, the United States has been ignoring its own Expats, even though--as US Expats--we provide an essential service to the United States by facilitating US business and US commercial interests in Vietnam.  I am not saying that everyone does that, or that it's even necessary to do so; however, it's often the case.  For instance, although I work for a Vietnamese law firm, more than 1/2 of my clients are Americans.   

Interestingly, I have been hiring French Interns for the past 10 years.  Did you know that their Embassy and Consulate has imported enough Vaccine for all French Expats in Vietnam? 

I believe that as Americans, and as tax payers, we have an absolute right to free vaccine shots. 

I would be happy to assist anyone that is leading this effort.  It is critical that "we" speak with one voice.  I am surprised that the American Chamber of Commerce has not played a more significant role on this particular issue.  I do know that AMCHAM does play role whenever the issue of tax on foreign expats is raised.  I am much more interested in issues of social equity and health, and this is precisely the issue that is implicated when the US Consulate throws up its hands and says "we can do nothing for American Expats, you must get the vaccine according to Vietnamese law." 

In any case, does anyone have an idea?

Thoughtful reply without the condescending tone. Thank you. I'm with you in that just because we've chosen to live abroad, doesn't mean we have become citizens unworthy of our government's protection.

Robbieo wrote:

elimazur wrote:

I agree, particularly that we need to unite and demand our rights.

I have been an attorney in Saigon for 20 years. 

As Americans or Green Card Holders, we are all taxed on our Global Income pursuant to the IRS Code.  Even if you haven't put a foot on US soil in 15 years, you are still required to file and pay taxes on your global income--even if not a dime is sourced from the US.  Therefore, our Tax Dollars--just like any other American--were used to fund the R&D of the Vaccine. 

This is why Americans get the Vaccine for Free. 

For more than 30 years, the United States has been ignoring its own Expats, even though--as US Expats--we provide an essential service to the United States by facilitating US business and US commercial interests in Vietnam.  I am not saying that everyone does that, or that it's even necessary to do so; however, it's often the case.  For instance, although I work for a Vietnamese law firm, more than 1/2 of my clients are Americans.   

Interestingly, I have been hiring French Interns for the past 10 years.  Did you know that their Embassy and Consulate has imported enough Vaccine for all French Expats in Vietnam? 

I believe that as Americans, and as tax payers, we have an absolute right to free vaccine shots. 

I would be happy to assist anyone that is leading this effort.  It is critical that "we" speak with one voice.  I am surprised that the American Chamber of Commerce has not played a more significant role on this particular issue.  I do know that AMCHAM does play role whenever the issue of tax on foreign expats is raised.  I am much more interested in issues of social equity and health, and this is precisely the issue that is implicated when the US Consulate throws up its hands and says "we can do nothing for American Expats, you must get the vaccine according to Vietnamese law." 

In any case, does anyone have an idea?

Thoughtful reply without the condescending tone. Thank you. I'm with you in that just because we've chosen to live abroad, doesn't mean we have become citizens unworthy of our government's protection.

Vaccine is free anyway..everyone living legally in Vietnam is going to get it. Just have to be patient and wait your turn like everyone else.

To a certain extent I agree with you. 

The only place where my opinion would differ is the implication that there is equity in the process of "waiting for your turn". 

The concept of "your turn" is quite relative, irrespective of the published priority lists (many of which are enshrined in law).

For example, nearly all of my Partners and their families, including their children and extended families, have already been vaccinated.  Similarly, based on my personal knowledge, including my Vietnamese mother-in-law and Vietnamese brother-in-law, the majority of people that I know who have been vaccinated did "wait for their turn" but any implications of equity, consistency, or certainty are less relevant than some may believe.     

I would encourage anyone to compare the vaccination rates of Cambodia, Lao, or Thailand vs. Vietnam.  Given Vietnam's status as the poster-child of successful, sustainable, and equitable development (1990-2010), I can't help but wonder what the WHO and other multilateral bodies are doing that would result in Cambodia having a ratio of 70 (partial) vaccinations per 100 people, whereas Vietnam only has 6.4 per 100 people--which is a level only seen in country's currently at war, failed states, or nations suffering from the worst forms of poverty (i.e., the list of least-developed nations).

In any case, I only wish good things for you and your family, and I hope that by waiting for your turn--which is a very fair way of understanding the process--that you are not adversely impacted by being in a final group, or being offered an inferior vaccine. 

I do think there is hope in raising this issue with the US Embassy and US Ambassador (per my previous post); however such a measure would only have a chance of working if thousands of US Expats signed one letter making an argument, for example, based on the Taxation of Global Incomes for Americans (and how we, as American Expats, are just as responsible for the R&D that made the vaccines possible as any American).  Therefore, like Americans in America, We--like French Expats in Vietnam--should be provided an opportunity to sign-up for free vaccinations (as well as having a choice of which vaccine we want).

Excellent comments

Thank you.   Please let me know if you're interested in writing a letter to the US Ambassador and trying to organize at least 1000 signatures.  I would be happy to draft the initial version of the letter, and I would not take any offense if you amended the letter or wanted it changed completely.  I do think it a possible, perhaps not probable, that we can impact American Diplomats in Vietnam to advocate for American Expats in Vietnam.  One place to start, perhaps, is to research whether American Diplomats in Vietnam have been vaccinated.  If they have, then there is at least some inherent injustice before we even get to any other persuasive arguments.  In terms of argumentation, it is often important to discard what we may think are our best arguments, and, instead, think of the reasons that would incentivize / motivate American Diplomats to take on our cause.  Often the best arguments merely need to embarrass (e.g., the French Embassy has started vaccinations for all French Expats in Vietnam, why haven't you; or Top 10 Lists that place American Diplomats in a bad light because of their weak assistance during this period).   In any case, please let me know if you or anyone you know has any interest.  Thanks again.

elimazur wrote:

To a certain extent I agree with you. 

The only place where my opinion would differ is the implication that there is equity in the process of "waiting for your turn". 

The concept of "your turn" is quite relative, irrespective of the published priority lists (many of which are enshrined in law).

For example, nearly all of my Partners and their families, including their children and extended families, have already been vaccinated.  Similarly, based on my personal knowledge, including my Vietnamese mother-in-law and Vietnamese brother-in-law, the majority of people that I know who have been vaccinated did "wait for their turn" but any implications of equity, consistency, or certainty are less relevant than some may believe.     

I would encourage anyone to compare the vaccination rates of Cambodia, Lao, or Thailand vs. Vietnam.  Given Vietnam's status as the poster-child of successful, sustainable, and equitable development (1990-2010), I can't help but wonder what the WHO and other multilateral bodies are doing that would result in Cambodia having a ratio of 70 (partial) vaccinations per 100 people, whereas Vietnam only has 6.4 per 100 people--which is a level only seen in country's currently at war, failed states, or nations suffering from the worst forms of poverty (i.e., the list of least-developed nations).

In any case, I only wish good things for you and your family, and I hope that by waiting for your turn--which is a very fair way of understanding the process--that you are not adversely impacted by being in a final group, or being offered an inferior vaccine. 

I do think there is hope in raising this issue with the US Embassy and US Ambassador (per my previous post); however such a measure would only have a chance of working if thousands of US Expats signed one letter making an argument, for example, based on the Taxation of Global Incomes for Americans (and how we, as American Expats, are just as responsible for the R&D that made the vaccines possible as any American).  Therefore, like Americans in America, We--like French Expats in Vietnam--should be provided an opportunity to sign-up for free vaccinations (as well as having a choice of which vaccine we want).

Here in HCMC, it appears that "your turn" derived from your occupation in the early stages of the vaccination effort, but now that it is in full swing, it is neighborhood and how many cases that neighborhood has.  I have no beef with that. 

To try to compare Vietnam to failed states is to ignore why Vietnam is behind in vaccinating their people -- the government, through previous positive experience, believed that their methods of containment would suffice, but discovered when the Delta variant became dominant that they were not.  No one at all anticipated the advent of Delta, so I cannot blame them.  If not for Delta, they could have avoided the cost of paying for vaccines and waited until the home-grown vaccines were available.

I agree with you; I think the "area" approach is a far more "equitable way" of distributing the vaccine than an approach tied to occupation.  Most critically, an approach tied to occupation would necessarily omit the most vulnerable populations (e.g., retired persons / the unemployed).

For the avoidance of any doubt, I would never compare Vietnam to a failed state.  Rather, I compared Vietnam's vaccination rates to countries at war, failed states, and the least-developed countries in the world.  However, even this was a rhetorical device to highlight the odd absence of the WHO in assisting Vietnam with obtaining vaccines.  Particularly, given the WHO's use of Vietnam as its "feel good story" of how the WHO's policies, including vaccinations for children under 5, can drastically change the healthcare outcomes in very poor nations--which is absolutely true (although it is the low hanging fruit). Though it certainly requires an investment of currency, sticking needles into the arms of children does not deal with the weaknesses of poorly resourced, managed, and structured healthcare systems. 

Although the other comments are largely innocuous and only a little dangerous, I would be careful about accepting the jab of a "homemade" vaccine, whether from the 2nd largest economy in the world, from a former superpower, or from the best pharmaceutical company in mainland SE Asia. 

As a Life Sciences Attorney in the region for decades, I have had the good fortune to learn that there are no short cuts to innovation.  The networks and institutions required--to ensure that the advances in the basic sciences (e.g., RNA Coding for 2 of the most effective vaccines)  are used by "technologists" (e.g., Pfizer)--include networked institutions like quality universities, funding (often by the Government for advances in the basic sciences), mechanisms whether market-oriented or planned, and then laws and regulatory bodies to ensure that the products created (because of advances in the basic sciences) by the technologists are safe and effective and, if not, then there is a transparent legal and regulatory system to hold the technologists liable, as well as to immediately stop the distribution of the offending products (e.g., vaccines). 

Before taking a jab, you may want to consider whether all of these institutions exist where the "homemade" version of the vaccine you are taking exist and function effectively, or not.

Of course, these issues are far more complex.

elimazur wrote:

...Although the other comments are largely innocuous and only a little dangerous, I would be careful about accepting the jab of a "homemade" vaccine, whether from the 2nd largest economy in the world, from a former superpower, or from the best pharmaceutical company in mainland SE Asia. 

As a Life Sciences Attorney in the region for decades, I have had the good fortune to learn that there are no short cuts to innovation.  The networks and institutions required--to ensure that the advances in the basic sciences (e.g., RNA Coding for 2 of the most effective vaccines)  are used by "technologists" (e.g., Pfizer)--include networked institutions like quality universities, funding (often by the Government for advances in the basic sciences), mechanisms whether market-oriented or planned, and then laws and regulatory bodies to ensure that the products created (because of advances in the basic sciences) by the technologists are safe and effective and, if not, then there is a transparent legal and regulatory system to hold the technologists liable, as well as to immediately stop the distribution of the offending products (e.g., vaccines). 

Before taking a jab, you may want to consider whether all of these institutions exist where the "homemade" version of the vaccine you are taking exist and function effectively, or not.

Of course, these issues are far more complex.

All vaccines are "home made" somewhere, but the problem with your exposition is that all three vaccines, Sinovac, Sputnik V and Vietnam's Nanocovax, are using tried and true technology.  None are as innovative as the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines, which themselves are using a technique that has been in use for years.  Both Sinovac and Sputnik V are old school -- killed virus and adenovirus carrier respectively, and Nanocovax is only mildly newer, using recombinant subunits with an aluminum hydroxide adjuvant, so innovation is not an issue.  You can quibble about safety and quality, but without any actual proof that is simply prejudice.  Effectiveness is unknown for all candidates until the phase three studies and has nothing to do with country of origin.

First, please let me apologize to you, as I am afraid that you may have missed my main point, which was certainly not an attack on you.   

My point was that innovation--in order to be value-added for any society--is more often than not a part of a networked institutional environment (e.g., universities, government and private finance, technologists, legal and regulatory bodies, the media, judicial institutions, etc.),  All of these institutions protect the general public from exploitation or being used as trial subjects.  The same can be said for securities laws that protect unsophisticated investors from sophisticated investors that, absent the laws and regulatory bodies, would be incentivized to run Ponzi Schemes and nothing else. 

In any case, I purposely omitted any discussion of actual science, given that I am not certain that anyone cares, nor do I know your scientific background.  However, given that you raise the issues, I only have a short comment: namely, that the Delta Variant was not a surprise to scientists.  Indeed, epidemiologists have been pleasantly surprised with how slow and ineffectively Covid-19 has been mutating since early 2020 when tracking the mutations became an actual global scientific project.  Based on natural rates of mutation for a virus  (e.g., errors in DNA/RNA coding when copies are made), Covid-19 has a surprisingly slow mutation rate.  However, among the thousands of mutant strains of the virus there have been 4-5 "adaptive mutations" by the virus (e.g., good for the virus, but bad for its host), including the Delta Variant.  The fact that "adaptive mutations" have occurred is easy to predict with algorithms that account for Covid-19's rate of mutation, the ratio of adaptive mutations, and the number of infected hosts. Accordingly, scientists have been warning for nearly an entire year that a variant, like the adaptive Delta variant, will arise in a place---like India---where you have a perfect storm in terms of the number of hosts, etc.

I sincerely apologize if I offended you.  It was not my intention.   I also apologize for the exposition.  My intent is not to argue or make anyone feel less than.   I am merely one ignorant person that--like many others--is searching for answers to very difficult questions.   Most critically, to me, I want answers as to why the US Embassy is ignoring the needs of US Expats, even though we are taxed on Global Income, and, by law, we are required to file and pay taxes every year, which over the past several years were used to finance both the basic science and the technologists in creating the vaccine.  I believe that our rights, as American Citizens or Green Card Holders, are being ignored, if not expressly violated.  Again, I hope  you can accept my apology.       k

I think this will be final post on this subject.  Therefore, thank you for the interesting discussion, and I wish you all the good fortune and good health in the world.

elimazur wrote:

First, please let me apologize to you, as I am afraid that you may have missed my main point, which was certainly not an attack on you.   

My point was that innovation--in order to be value-added for any society--is more often than not a part of a networked institutional environment (e.g., universities, government and private finance, technologists, legal and regulatory bodies, the media, judicial institutions, etc.),  All of these institutions protect the general public from exploitation or being used as trial subjects.  The same can be said for securities laws that protect unsophisticated investors from sophisticated investors that, absent the laws and regulatory bodies, would be incentivized to run Ponzi Schemes and nothing else. 

In any case, I purposely omitted any discussion of actual science, given that I am not certain that anyone cares, nor do I know your scientific background.  However, given that you raise the issues, I only have a short comment: namely, that the Delta Variant was not a surprise to scientists.  Indeed, epidemiologists have been pleasantly surprised with how slow and ineffectively Covid-19 has been mutating since early 2020 when tracking the mutations became an actual global scientific project.  Based on natural rates of mutation for a virus  (e.g., errors in DNA/RNA coding when copies are made), Covid-19 has a surprisingly slow mutation rate.  However, among the thousands of mutant strains of the virus there have been 4-5 "adaptive mutations" by the virus (e.g., good for the virus, but bad for its host), including the Delta Variant.  The fact that "adaptive mutations" have occurred is easy to predict with algorithms that account for Covid-19's rate of mutation, the ratio of adaptive mutations, and the number of infected hosts. Accordingly, scientists have been warning for nearly an entire year that a variant, like the adaptive Delta variant, will arise in a place---like India---where you have a perfect storm in terms of the number of hosts, etc.

I sincerely apologize if I offended you.  It was not my intention.   I also apologize for the exposition.  My intent is not to argue or make anyone feel less than.   I am merely one ignorant person that--like many others--is searching for answers to very difficult questions.   Most critically, to me, I want answers as to why the US Embassy is ignoring the needs of US Expats, even though we are taxed on Global Income, and, by law, we are required to file and pay taxes every year, which over the past several years were used to finance both the basic science and the technologists in creating the vaccine.  I believe that our rights, as American Citizens or Green Card Holders, are being ignored, if not expressly violated.  Again, I hope  you can accept my apology.       k

I think this will be final post on this subject.  Therefore, thank you for the interesting discussion, and I wish you all the good fortune and good health in the world.

Being Ambassadors are Political appointees most won't rock the boat being they like their positions. Email everyone from President Biden down. Probably the only  way to get vaccinations for Expats is to contact your Congress person and both Senators. Lay out your case and maybe just maybe they will push something that will cause the administration to provide. If every Expat around the world does this MAYBE something will happen.
If you are reluctant to take the vaccine that is being offered to everyone in Vietnam then you will make a personal decision for yourself. Any vaccine is better than none.