Money transfer to Brazil. Opinions are welcome

To avoid having alarms go off at Banco do Brasil and the Polícia Federal,  it would be a good idea for your fiancée to have a talk with the manager of her BB branch beforehand,  to clarify that you're transferring the funds from your own account to fund your planned wedding.   That way, there shouldn't be any holds or questions on the funds.

I have also found that transferring under R$ 10,000 at a time is a good thing.  I have used TransferWise for the past almost 5 years without a hitch.

knedelisky wrote:

I have also found that transferring under R$ 10,000 at a time is a good thing.  I have used TransferWise for the past almost 5 years without a hitch.

How much time does there have to be between the deposits? Because the currency fluctuates quickly, and I don't want to wait too long

I usually wait until TransferWise says 'the funds are on their way' until I start the next one.  Often this happens in one day, or a day and a half.

I too would avoid one large transfer.
You may transfer up to $US 4,000.00 per month from US.
BoB will also charge for the fund coming in.
I agree with speaking to the branch. I had an issue but went to BoB (with the docs) and they sent a msg to my bank and all was fine in the same day.
As to BoB or any bank seeing the source, HECK Yeah! It will show sender and account, the reason for, and the recipient.  I would check on taxes.  Changing names may cause a taxable event. Sending from oneself to oneself does not if a tax agreement between the counties exsist.

TransferWise offers the option of a daily email (M-F) with the latest rate.  You could use that to time your transfers.  The real seems unlikely to reverse its downward slide anytime soon.

Texanbrazil wrote:

Changing names may cause a taxable event. Sending from oneself to oneself does not if a tax agreement between the counties exist.

I don't think that such an agreement exists.

We recently made an account for my fiancé in my homecountry Belgium.
I could transfer the euros to her local account, and then have her send it to Brazil (same name).
I consider letting her send 5000 euros to her own account and 5000 to her mother to avoid taxation if the amount of reais gets too high. 30 000 reais each.

This article here mentions a 4% tax on donations above 40 000 reais annually. I don't know if it matters how the donator is related to the recipient. In my country the taxation is higher if the donator is not your parent. A brother pays more and if it's not family the state really robs us.

http://www.lawofficeinbrazil.com.br/pub … sfers.html

Careful when transfering money into Brazil - State Tax Laws

According to the current legislation, Brazil has state laws that require individuals recipient of donations/gifts and inheritance be taxed. For example, in the state of São Paulo, if I were to receive a donation of R$50.000 from my father as a gift or donation this year, I would have to pay 4% state tax or R$2.000, denominated ITCMD, Imposto de Transmissão Causa Mortis e Doação.

In Rio de Janeiro, the state tax over such donations, the ITD, is levied by the Secretaria da Fazenda (SEFAZ-RJ) also with a rate of4%.

However, there are a few ungenerous exemptions that also vary from state to state. Meaning, there is a minimum threshold that an individual can receive from another per year without getting taxed and that varies from state to state. In the state of São Paulo this threshold runs around R$40.000 per year.

Since many foreigners send frequent money transfers to their spouses and friends in Brazil, these laws play a bigger role in the scenario, especially because government does not alert tax payers of existence of such laws and individuals are frequent surprised when they get government bill in the mail, because always these bills come with heavily fines and interest added to the amount due.

Plus, when bill is not paid nor legally disputed by the individual, the State usually sends his or her name and CPF to the CADIN or Cadastro de Inadimplentes, which is a data base that registers bad payees and is a very negative registration to have under your name.

Nonetheless, it is not all bad news. Several people who got taxed in Brazil due to international wire transfers have seek legal assistance, taken their cases to Court,  challenged these state laws and have WON!

Recently the Highest State Court the São Paulo has ruled that this type of taxation is currently ILLEGAL for those who received money from individuals abroad, due to the lack of a Federal Law that regulates such money transfers and taxation procedures. This alone produced an important piece of jurisprudence which is being used in many other similar disputes.

In conclusion, extra careful is necessary when transferring money into Brazil, always consult an expert because these laws can be changed frequently and you do not want to get off guard, by surprise. In addition, if you already received a bill, always consult with your own attorney before paying it, because currently there are legal remedies available

I would take care of that amount unless buying a property or a car.
When I last checked with BB $4000.00 U$ was the max per month.
Also, her bank will charge fees on a transfer.

Texanbrazil wrote:

I would take care of that amount unless buying a property or a car.
When I last checked with BB $4000.00 U$ was the max per month.
Also, her bank will charge fees on a transfer.

We are in contact with an official of Banco Do Brasil but we don't get clear answers.
I don't want any surprises. Taxes or fees from the bank. I use transferwise to avoid banks in the first place. When a currency is under inflation, banks will typically not give you the real exchange rate.

I also don't know if sending money to her mother is considered a donation, which is therefore taxable.
If so, we're better off sending everything to her own account

I am not knowledgeable about donations. In my mind, BR will be alerted unless in it a non-profit set up in BR, Normally a donation will go thru an agency certified in BR or a gov. agency.
With all situation today there have been many seizures by RF and PF.
Brasilia has sent extra agents to the borders and state capitals.
As to exchange rates, it varies and if you bring a large amount and BR makes a monetary change, you will have a big surprise, They have been known to do so.

Hello everyone --

I am new to this forum and need some advice.  My husband is a Dual Citizen (US/Brazil) and I am a US Citizen.  We are moving to his home city of Belo Horizonte in August.  We are here now looking at apartments and about to put out an offer on one.  We have the cash to pay for the apartment in our joint bank account in Washington State (my husband is the primary account holder) to my husband's account at Santander.  The source of the cash is a Home Equity Line of Credit.  I noticed on TransferWise that we can only transfer R$250,000 at a time (so we will at least do 2 transfers of that amount).  What would you advise me to do on the US side? (the Brazil side is set up to receive).  What paperwork do we need to file in the US?  Anything else I need to know?  Thank you for your advice for this newbie.

07/02/21

Welcome, Sean!

If you have the Brazilian banking end all set, you've already got the most important base covered.  On the US side, advise your bank that you have one or more big transfers planned, and they can help with any formalities.

At this point, you want to minimize costs.  You'll probably have to pay Wise's fee on each of the multiple transfers,  so you might want to check with your US bank to determine what the cost would be of having them wire the entire amount at once for comparison.

My husband and I love BH; it's always on our short list of possible moves.  Enjoy it, and good luck with the move.

Excellent.  Thank you so much

sean,
Welcome and I second what abthree said. I had my bank set up full payment to an account for the purchase in BR, Both banks knew what and when. Santander can get all the backroom Central bank stuff done for you.

Sean,
I treat Transferwise with the same great respect that I treat the Nigerian Royalty who occasionally email me to endow me with millions of dollars if I will just help them embezzle it out of their country.
If you husband is a dual citizen with a bank account in the US and a bank account in Brazil, then he can easily wire money to himself ...larger amounts will draw scrutiny, so just make sure your noses are clean, but there really should not be any problems ....I recently wired enough money to the account of a real estate agent for purchase in full of a small ranch, without any serious problems and the total skim was around $1000 ....the biggest part of that was a transfer tax ....the only time I used TW they took 20%!!!!!! ....SWIFT does require a voice phone call for him to verify the transaction, and very close attention to the application and the IBAN numbers and all, but its really not difficult ......

Thank you guys.

07/02/21

I share some of Inubia's concerns with Wise.  It claims to be a peer-to-peer transfer system, and has been compared to the "Hawala" system used for centuries in the Middle East.  It's internal processes are opaque to me, and I don't understand how a Hawala-type system can transfer reasonably large amounts immediately on-demand, as Wise clearly does.  Since it's a black box, I don't think I'd be comfortable running the funds for a major purchase through it.  I do use it for the monthly transfer to cover our living expenses, however.

One advantage of moving money with Wise is that you, not the banks, benefit from the float.  If I request a transfer in the morning, the money is often in my Brazilian bank account by that same afternoon, but it's not withdrawn from my US bank account for two or three days.  I offer this strictly as an observation, not a recommendation.

Can you explain how TransferWise works? Do you collect your pension in a U.S. bank, say, BofA, then transfer dollars to TransferWise for transfer to Brazil in reals? Thanks for clarification.

02/01/22

mooseheadlaw wrote:

Can you explain how TransferWise works? Do you collect your pension in a U.S. bank, say, BofA, then transfer dollars to TransferWise for transfer to Brazil in reals? Thanks for clarification.

Hi, Mooseheadlaw,

Yes, all of my income goes to my US account.  Once a month, I make a transfer on the Wise site or app from my US account to my Brazilian account.  Wise deducts their fee, applies the mid-market rate to the balance of the amount I'm transferring, and it's available several hours later in Reais in my Brazilian account.  They have my bank information at both ends on file; I can change it at the time of the transfer if I want, or just let it default. 

This morning, I made a transfer using their app at 7:53 AM, local time; the funds were in my Brazilian account by about 12:45 this afternoon.  In 2-3 days, the charge will appear in my US account as "Pre-Authorized Withdrawal, Wise Ltd." and my name.

When my total transfers reached $10,000, I had to provide them with my Social Security No.; they haven't asked any regulatory questions since then.


Thanks for your contributions on the forum!

Thanks! One more question, so TransferWise is a sort of 'middle man', as you mentioned you have a US bank and a Brazilian bank. And the advantage of TW is simple the fees are less than if you transferred from your US bank to your Brazilian bank directly?

02/01/22

My bank in the US doesn't charge me for wires, so for me, the Wise fee and my Brazilian bank's fee are pretty much a wash.  Wise's better exchange rate makes it worth my while.  For expats being charged by both banks, the advantage of Wise would probably be greater.

Hey everybody thanks for making my Expat journey in Brasil so much easier . Is the limits still $4,000 usd per month transfer to Banco Do Brasil ?

kmitch0077 wrote:

Hey everybody thanks for making my Expat journey in Brasil so much easier . Is the limits still $4,000 usd per month transfer to Banco Do Brasil ?

Yes, to my knowledge to any bank. Now if making a larger purchase just speak with the back office.

One thing people might be interested in is that if you have a Banco do Brasil Américas account (miami but open online) you have free transfers to a BB account in Brazil. Limits vary per day but are roughly 1000$.

I similarly wonder about large purchases. If I buy a home would I have to pay taxes to either Brazil or the US just for the transfer at any point? Hypothetically if I transfer over some period is there reporting or other requirements if it is just between my own accounts? Thanks!

03/18/22

rnbtg wrote:

I similarly wonder about large purchases. If I buy a home would I have to pay taxes to either Brazil or the US just for the transfer at any point? Hypothetically if I transfer over some period is there reporting or other requirements if it is just between my own accounts? Thanks!

When we bought our apartment, I transferred the entire purchase price, plus the amounts required for our planned renovations, from my US account to my Banco do Brasil account.  I spoke with my Brazilian accountant first, and confirmed that since the funds had already been taxed in the US, they would not be taxed in Brazil.  There are reporting requirements to the Banco Central and the Federal Police; I advised Banco do Brasil a week or two ahead of time, and they took care of any necessary agency notifications behind the scenes.  The funds were available on the morning we completed the transaction.

On my Brazilian income tax filing the following year, I saw the funds enter and leave the month-by-month section of the return, with no tax impact.

rnbtg wrote:

One thing people might be interested in is that if you have a Banco do Brasil Américas account (miami but open online) you have free transfers to a BB account in Brazil. Limits vary per day but are roughly 1000$.

I similarly wonder about large purchases. If I buy a home would I have to pay taxes to either Brazil or the US just for the transfer at any point? Hypothetically if I transfer over some period is there reporting or other requirements if it is just between my own accounts? Thanks!

___
Banco do Brasil Américas is a completely different banking business than Banco do Brasil in Brazil, with the only commonality being their name. There are very few things they can do between the businesses. Yes, I too have an account with Banco do Brasil Américas in Miami.

The free transfers are located here. There are no fees this way supposedly though the exchange rate is where it looks like they get you. https://www.bbamericas.com/br/pessoal/e … -o-brasil/

For those interested, this month I have tried to use Chime to send money.  I initiated my transfer on the 10th of March, from my Chime account to my personal bank account. As of today, the transfer has not left Chime, nine days later, it is not even showing as pending in my personal account.  Per Chime's Customer Service phone Supervisor, which took two days of phone calls and hours being put on hold, transferring me to different people, I might see the funds in my personal account sometime after the 1st of April and before the 10th. In their defense, they did offer me a "Temporary (electronic) Debit Card" I could use to access my funds digitally, if I stopped the transfer transaction.
I am just very happy I did this as a trial and not because I needed the funds.

Took a look at Banco do Brasil Americas, their exchange rates don't seem favorable. I was quoted something like $1 = R$4,81 where the market rate is $1 = R$5,01. Transferwise after their fees came out to R$4,91/$1

Better off going with TransferWise or opening up a brokerage with Schwab to get the checking account with $0 foreign transaction fees. Haven't checked their exchange rate yet but that's on my list of things to test out

03/18/22

rraypo,

Thanks for being the test case on Chime.  I hope that your money surfaces soon!

abthree wrote:

03/18/22

rraypo,

Thanks for being the test case on Chime.  I hope that your money surfaces soon!

___
Abthree, thank you.
I spoke with my bank in the US, Chase.  They said I can use Zelle to get my money back from Chime and into my account with Chase. They said this should be 1-3 business days.  I just installed the Zelle App and started that process. I will advise when I am finally able to get my money back into my account, kkkkk

I'm using REMESSAONLINE and it's been helpful and easy.

Use legit established commercial/retail  banks whenever possible, if you can trust them, there is.

Wire transfer outfits are often under target investigation for money laundering.

Most of these licensed outfits are used to launder illegal money. I am not talking about the wire transfer itself. It is the Wire operator.

FBI has a list of them under investigation.  

Besides, most of them are under capitalized.  


Most of their Stateside operations usually are chartered under one State, as getting a license to wire money is the cost equivalent of getting a State Banking License and for each State you are to operate.  You can't be in all 50. Most of the time, they use Authorized Agents to forward payments through their headquarters, before the money is wired overseas.   Now, a typical banking license goes for least USD 1,000,000.00 Stateside, or even more.  



Checking it out..

The "Remessa Online" refered here, chartered in  09/05/2016, has a declared starting  capital of R$ 145.928.855,00 or about USD 30,734,805.00. All of this gleaned through their Tax ID.


Operating, according to records, on two floors of an office building. Now, there is a reason why Insurance Carriers and Banks buy a lot of real estate. IT is to convey the depositors about being stable.

On the flip side, most of these wire transfer outfits get their equity funding through suspect shady characters.


And yes,they can be effective in transfering your money. After all why mess with a good thing? Even criminals know this.  Up until, there is, their assets are frozen, and the company is placed under administrative control, when subjected by targeted criminal investigation.


Can you really afford that risk through a unknown operator?

@sean_seattle

I have done direct transfers from my bank and have also used Wise for transfers. I usually use Wise, even for the purchase of property including a home in Campos do Jordao. You know exactly what the exchange rate is with Wise, and I think the fees are reasonable. If you have everything set up on the Brazil end, your money will be in your account quickly, My bank charges $20 per wire transfer fee, but more importantly, your really don't know what the exchange rate is going to be, and it takes longer. Good luck