Money transfer to Brazil. Opinions are welcome

@ Mikeflanagan  You're absolutely right.

And I want to stress that I don't object to the additional requirements; I'm opposed to money laundering too, and glad to help.  It's three day turnaround on every information exchange that's the killer.

If Banco do Brasil has questions about my SWIFT transfer, I can take the documents, walk three blocks over, and hand them to the manager of my branch, who'll review them while I sit across from him at his desk.  If he needs more, I can walk home, get it, and bring it back.  Probable elapsed time:  one day, and he releases the transfer on his computer while I watch.  That same process would take a week from here with a São Paulo bank, and mean one more moneyless weekend.  😣
@Texanbrazil thanks for sharing - my wife and I just went through a nightmare transferring larger sums of $$ through Wise for a real estate investment purchase (Wise worked without a hitch for the last year in covering monthly expenses through more modest transfers).

How were you able to execute the international wire transfer with your bank? We also bank with Bradesco here in Brazil (as well as Sicoob) but transfer $$ from our Bank of America account (typically through Wise or another service). Thanks
@GringoLouco I use Remitly as the fee no matter what you transfer is set $3.00 Canadian. There are 3 tiers. Each tier has a limit per day you can transfer. I have a cpf here and setup a bank account online with Iti Bank. I am at level 3 which gives me $10,000 transfer everyday.
I did used to use transferwise but crazy expensive.
Hope this helps
@Texanbrazil thanks for sharing - my wife and I just went through a nightmare transferring larger sums of $$ through Wise for a real estate investment purchase (Wise worked without a hitch for the last year in covering monthly expenses through more modest transfers).

How were you able to execute the international wire transfer with your bank? We also bank with Bradesco here in Brazil (as well as Sicoob) but transfer $$ from our Bank of America account (typically through Wise or another service). Thanks
- @thebucknertheory
For larger sums, I would use a facilitator, a professional to do this.  I use a man in SP that I learned about through another person in this group. For smaller amounts, I too have found Wise to be the best.
@Texanbrazil thanks for sharing - my wife and I just went through a nightmare transferring larger sums of $$ through Wise for a real estate investment purchase (Wise worked without a hitch for the last year in covering monthly expenses through more modest transfers).

How were you able to execute the international wire transfer with your bank? We also bank with Bradesco here in Brazil (as well as Sicoob) but transfer $$ from our Bank of America account (typically through Wise or another service). Thanks
- @thebucknertheory
I am not sure which post you are asking about. (some 2020 and 2021)
I use my US bank to transfer monthly funds to Bradesco.
When I did large purchases (condo and car) I had the lawyer set up an escrow-type account and it was wired to that account. (lawyer took care of the notice of transfer).
On the car, I negotiated with the dealer in U$ and includes the taxes. Again the dealer handled the transfer on their end.

@thebucknertheory how do you like sicoob? I'm interested in the coop banks here

@thebucknertheory how do you like sicoob? I'm interested in the coop banks here

- @rnbtg

Sicoob is a nice bank, especially for small businesses. My wife and family/friends use it as well.
As an individual, I am not sure. Some options on their app may not suit individuals.
I have issues with online pagamentos on trying to pay via bar code and need to use the type the long number code instead of the camera.
Individuals, let us know how Sicoob works for you.
08/17/22 I have issues with online pagamentos on trying to pay via bar code and need to use the type the long number code instead of the camera.

- @Texanbrazil

Tex, I often have that problem with BB, too.  I think that it has as much to do with the print quality of the boletos as it does the bank apps.  The BB app has never yet been able to read our electric bill; it can read the boleto for our condo assessment maybe half the time.
I am sure this is true. The Sicoob and Internet boletos are the only issues I have found to date.
100 (joking) numbers have to be checked and rechecked. On the phone app, my stubby finger does not want to comply

01/04/23 Here's a current data point, since I completed the monthly transfer from my US account to my Brazilian account today:


This morning's opening Wise rate was $1.00 = R$5.4511


The rate Banco do Brasil used was $1.00 = R$5.368493

Even for remitely ?



is it good to buy now???

I'm surprised, I just completed a transfer at Banco do Brasil at $1.00 = R$5.44, and I generally prefer Banco do Brasil rates to Santander, which are way lower!

@rraypo could you pls share this guy contact info? I am looking to send a large sum  for a realestate transaction and i need the best rate.

Does anyone know rate for my bank itau


trying to transfer from chase bank USA to itau

01/04/23 Even for remitely ?

is it good to buy now???
-@dedecadaver


Bank-to-bank SWIFT transfer.  After a bad experience with Wise (described in a post above) I stopped using third party transfer services.  I  don't mind paying a little extra for the added security of bank-to-bank.


No idea on whether this is a good time to buy.  We don't try to time our transfers.  You can get an idea of recent trends on the Wise site, by pricing a USD>BRL transfer.

01/04/23 I'm surprised, I just completed a transfer at Banco do Brasil at $1.00 = R$5.44, and I generally prefer Banco do Brasil rates to Santander, which are way lower!
-@Jeanne Z

All the rates change constantly.


The Central Bank requires Brazilian banks to use a "market rate" for currency exchange, but doesn't prescribe a specific reference.  Santander may use a different reference from BB.  SWIFT transfers may get a better rate than ATM withdrawals, too.

@dedecadaver maybe you could ask your bank itau? cheers!

The Bradesco cambio people in So Paulo always try to tell me that they are required to take 5% in taxes.


As for rates, the Brazilian Real took a deep dive when Lula took office and appointed new cabinet members.  I guess we will have to wait and see if the fears of the investors materialize.

@rraypo could you pls share this guy contact info? I am looking to send a large sum for a realestate transaction and i need the best rate.
-@Cserebogar

Please send me a private message so we are not advertising for anyone or business on here. I'd be happy to help if I can

I use bank to bank, (SECU to Banco do Brasil) I'm charged $25 per transfer with the current market rate. I had to make 3 transfers to receive a recurring number so I can do it automatically with no banks involved. It also helps to be on good terms with your banks. Especially your bank in Brazil. I can transfer as much as I want now since I proved to the Central Bank in Brazil where the funds were coming from. Wells Fargo use to offer the same rate). Hope this helps

Based on advice from trusted sources on this forum l will never do anything but a bank to bank transfer.

l don't like the idea of any of my account information drifting around the internet. I have already met with my banker here in the USA and told him of my plans. I will do the same with the bank in Brazil, well in advance of any transfers.

Based on advice from trusted sources on this forum l will never do anything but a bank to bank transfer.
l don't like the idea of any of my account information drifting around the internet. I have already met with my banker here in the USA and told him of my plans. I will do the same with the bank in Brazil, well in advance of any transfers.
-@KenAquarius

I'm not sure whose advice you are taking, but that would be among my last choices. Bank to bank is the slowest and by far the most expensive, at least it was both for me.

I use Wise twice a month, with zero trouble. I have bought two cars and with my new apartment, that makes two home purchases using Wise. I have used Chase bank in the past, and would not do that again unless I have no other choice. First, the last transfer from Chase took a week. Second, the fees were high, but more importantly, they load their transfer fees into the exchange rates giving us a low rate. If I were you, I would certainly think twice

01/11/23 I'm not sure whose advice you are taking, but that would be among my last choices. Bank to bank is the slowest and by far the most expensive, at least it was both for me.
I use Wise twice a month, with zero trouble. I have bought two cars and with my new apartment, that makes two home purchases using Wise. I have used Chase bank in the past, and would not do that again unless I have no other choice. First, the last transfer from Chase took a week. Second, the fees were high, but more importantly, they load their transfer fees into the exchange rates giving us a low rate. If I were you, I would certainly think twice
-@rraypo


The advice was probably mine.


My SWIFT transfers are generally in my Banco do Brasil account on the afternoon of the same day; WISE transfers usually were, too (when they worked -- see below), so the timing is a wash.


Banco do Brasil doesn't charge me for the transfer, and my US bank reverses the charge on the day of the transfer, so I have no bank charges. The Central Bank requires Brazilian banks to exchange at "market rates", and those rates do tend to be a little bit lower than Wise's "mid-market rate"-- but not a lot, they'd be illegal otherwise. All in, on January 4, my monthly SWIFT transfer was R$6.00 more expensive than transferring through Wise would have been -- that's SIX REAIS, not six dollars. That was the difference between the net of the two exchange rates, and Wise's fee. Close enough to a wash for me.


As I've said many times, I like Wise, when they work. Their "black box" worried me, particularly since I could never be sure where and whether the IOF (Brazilian Financial Transaction Tax) was being paid, but I always shrugged it off.  But last April, their correspondent bank in Brazil left us without money for two weeks; when there was no sign of a resolution, I canceled that transfer and made a SWIFT transfer. Wise was very helpful, but they have no leverage over their partners: it's not a vendor-customer relationship, it's something a whole lot more nebulous.


If you're happy with Wise (or any other third-party transfer company), fine. But I would suggest these precautions in case things go pear-shaped:


  • Keep a healthy balance in your BRL account at all times, particularly prior to your usual transfer date(s). This can be hard to do when exchange rates are unfavorable, though.
  • Schedule recurring payments for times in the month when you know the money will be there, like midway between transfers.
  • Keep an emergency fund of cash on hand. We did this, but ran through it before I finally gave up on Wise's partner.
  • If you're contacted by Banco Rendimento with a document request to release your transfer, don't let them draw you into their neverending process -- that was my mistake. Cancel the transfer immediately -- Wise was very good about this -- and arrange another way to get your money.


-@abthree

Wow, just no words, that's a horrible story.

In the ten or so years I've been using Wise, (then Transfer Wise), I have never had more than a few delays over weekends, no tax issues, nothing thank you God.  Wise asked for additional ID once, but never since. This last apartment purchase transfer went through in minutes, while I was in the USA and on the phone with Brazil. I tried Remity a few times but was quite unhappy with their transfer time frames. Remity also delayed transfers twice asking for copies of my US bank statements, photos of me holding up my US Passport, etc.  I'm sorry about your issues and we are all sorry about the level of bureaucracy that can so suddenly come up!

01/11/23 @ rraypo.  That's just the abridged version!  😂 Banco Rendimento (at least last year) by policy, would not deal with me in any way but email, and insisted on giving themselves two business days to respond each time, which meant a maximum of two exchanges a week, if I was lucky.  I sent them all my Brazilian tax returns (!), but finally drew the line when they demanded my US returns, too -- when I never was and never will be their customer.


Again, Wise was always great, they just don't have authority over their partners.  I don't even blame Banco Rendimento too much.  I think that all of the banks were seriously behind on their paperwork right after the pandemic and were panicking a little.  There was even a hiccup around the same time with Banco do Brasil, the difference being that they're two blocks away, and it took about an hour to resolve in person.

Wise/Banco Rendimento - my experience

Frequent transfers of larger amounts

For 2.5 years, I used Wise/Banco Rendimento

On the first transaction with them, I had to provide

     identifications

     proof of address in Brazil

     my source of income was from my business, so I had to provide the incorporation papers, etc. 

     proof of ownership for my US & Brazilian personal and company bank accounts

     Brazilian and US tax returns for prior year

Each transfer, the process for me was:

     Initiate transfer with WISE

     Wait 2-7 days for Banco Rendimento in Brazil to recieve the money and send an email requesting docs

     Provide Banco Rendimento business invoice and copies of current transactions from both business and      personal account showing funds associated with the invoice/transfer amount.

      Wait up 3 - 8 days for Banco Rendimento to release the funds to my Brazilian bank


About 80 percent of the time it took 7 or more calendar days to receive the funds (at times up to 15 days)

About 20 percent of the time it took 6 or less calendar days (only twice in the 2.5 years was it within 3 days)


I concur with others that the customer service at Banco Rendimento is non existent and must be by email.  Even then, we never recieved any information on the delays on the the transfers that took over 10 days.  One response when I emailed about a delayed transaction was that it would be 3 additional days, because I emailed about it-  it reset the clock on their required response time.  hahaha.   Because of the difficulties, I transferred based on invoicing from my business, I didn't want to combine funds and add complexity to the process for Banco Rendimento.


Bank to Bank (Santander) - my experience

In 2019, I did a test SWIFT transfer bank to bank (Santander) and it never showed up.   What I found out (2.5 years later..) is that it did show up, I just had to go into my phone app and release the funds.   This functionality with Santander is only available in the phone app and I tend to use the online app so I can translate it to english....       


So, starting October 2022, I began doing a SWIFT transfer bank to bank successfully, using my personal accounts in the US and Brazil.    I do have to speak to my US bank to initiate the transfer (because of the amount and volume of transfers), but it only takes a few minutes and the funds are available for release in the phone app within an hour.   Once I release in the app, funds are in my account immediately.    So far, Santander has not asked me for any documentation.   Soon I'll test doing a SWIFT tranfer bank to bank using my company accounts in the US and Brazil.


Santander does not charge me a fee, although they do use the lower rate market rate.  It is also possible for me to transfer funds from the US without converting to BRL into a separate US funds account at Santander, then exchange it to BRL when the rates are agreeable.


For me, working with Wise was horrible, and I thought the only viable option.    I am really happy I finally figured out the Santander process- not as much stress worrying about funds being where they need to be.   


I've recently found and joined this website and I am learning so much already.    I really appreciate all the information.   


Michael