An unpleasant brush with the law.

THIGV wrote:

Here is another possible solution to the situation.  Have your Vietnamese wife to speak to the owner of the coffee shop, threaten to never come back, and let the owner confront the taxi driver.

Thanks for that.
I was more concerned about what she would do with the taxi driver than my own actions.
When Viet woman go crazy they are a match for Tyson Fury 
The cafe owner, to his credit, was involved in the aftermath and helped in defending my stupidity.
What his motives were is debatable but I have to admire his stand given the circumstances.

vndreamer wrote:

Indices wrote:

LSP123 wrote:

Thank you for your report. You posted it on a forum. There are still many kind souls around who after reading it, offer to sympathise or emphatise with you. Most are males and we offer comments and suggestions that you may be more cautious and aviod such rage behavior in future. Isn't that what humanity is all about? After all when its a case of 'locals vs foreigners' in Vietnam, guess who wins? 500 dongs for correct answer..

As stated to OceanBeach I will refrain from further comments.

I understand your frustration as this forum can turn into a trolls kingdom.  Based on the comments, I just have a few responses:

1. No matter where you are in the world, any man urinating in public that close to my family, yes, I would have said something as well.  Why?  It is irrelevant that it is VN or common in VN, it is disgusting and extremely disrespectful and those who do it, know it (i.e., why there is a law against it, but not enforced).

2. If the person physically touched me, I would have done something similar and defended myself, period.

3. The nonsense of BS machismo is just that, BS.  Any decent human being would defend his or her family, after getting physically assaulted, the question is to what extent is necessary.  Those who don't, well, I don't have to say as we know.  For example, I have VN brother in laws in VN and I have seen them respond much more forceful in similar situations and they were not even provoked. 

4. The ignorant who claim "this is not your turf" is just that.  You live in VN and it has been your home for a long time.  Thus, this is your turf just as much as anybody else who makes VN their home.  It would be no different if a VN family lived next door to me.  I would never insult them and tell them "you can't do this because this is not your turf".  They are not visitors, tourists etc., it is their home and where ever you make your home, it is your turf, period.  See my comment above, even those who would state it is their turf, locals know it is wrong and defend their family.

5.  Food for thought, maybe it is the inaction of people that explains why VN is still a 3rd world communist country.

As a last note on the subject, during my brief time on the forum I have already noted the few members whose aim is to promote there own misguided self image rather than respond to the post itself. I guess all forums have them. Best to just move on.

Indices wrote:

I have a long history here going back to '73 and am well familiar with Vietnamese life.

Indices wrote:

67 actually.

I had forgotten that at the tender age of 21, you were a citizen of a non-combatant country, employed in the Vietnamese countryside. 

Moving on, I might observe that public urination in Vietnam is partly a function of a lack of public toilets  and public toilets with a fee, even if small.  If you don't want to have people urinating in public, provide an alternative.  The same applies to wastebaskets.  These are now showing up in parks disguised as penguins  but still not enough.  I remember my school had a tiny wastebasket on the landing between every other floor.  No wonder teachers had to stay on top of the kids to not leave rubbish in the rooms.

My favorite urinals were those on the bridges over the Seine in Paris  that emptied directly into the river.  They were shielded from sight only from the waist down.  I expect they are long gone now.    Now the city has introduced  eco-friendly composting units to which some modern Parisiens still object.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDBIAHu … ;index=606  Funny how sensibilities change with time.  These peoples fathers and grandfathers were peeing in the river!  Perhaps some entrepreneurial Viet Kieu expat in Paris could get the franchise on these and peddle them to Vietnamese cities or better yet make them in Vietnam and sell them back to Paris.

Reading some of the comments I'm coming to the conclusion that some people simply don't want Vietnam to change. I feel like too many expats are infatuated with some idealized image of a wholesome VN local whose precious culture should be at all cost preserved, even if it means bending your morals, turning your eyes away from corruption, uncivilized behavior etc. Or perhaps I am too quick to assume that some take standards of civility seriously. Perhaps the soundest way is to mimic the local knights of law and order enforcement (ie. the awesome police force) and always sport a wide, Buddha-like smile, no matter what happens. After all money, not law, not justice, not decency are the rule of the game. I am starting to think that these expats plain and simple feel that they are better: they gaze upon all the negative aspects of VN with an air of unshakable superiority. After all, a bit like the cops, they have the money and hence can afford to put themselves in the role of a mere spectator.

vndreamer wrote:

Indices wrote:

LSP123 wrote:

Thank you for your report. You posted it on a forum. There are still many kind souls around who after reading it, offer to sympathise or emphatise with you. Most are males and we offer comments and suggestions that you may be more cautious and aviod such rage behavior in future. Isn't that what humanity is all about? After all when its a case of 'locals vs foreigners' in Vietnam, guess who wins? 500 dongs for correct answer..

As stated to OceanBeach I will refrain from further comments.

I understand your frustration as this forum can turn into a trolls kingdom.  Based on the comments, I just have a few responses:

1. No matter where you are in the world, any man urinating in public that close to my family, yes, I would have said something as well.  Why?  It is irrelevant that it is VN or common in VN, it is disgusting and extremely disrespectful and those who do it, know it (i.e., why there is a law against it, but not enforced).

2. If the person physically touched me, I would have done something similar and defended myself, period.

3. The nonsense of BS machismo is just that, BS.  Any decent human being would defend his or her family, after getting physically assaulted, the question is to what extent is necessary.  Those who don't, well, I don't have to say as we know.  For example, I have VN brother in laws in VN and I have seen them respond much more forceful in similar situations and they were not even provoked. 

4. The ignorant who claim "this is not your turf" is just that.  You live in VN and it has been your home for a long time.  Thus, this is your turf just as much as anybody else who makes VN their home.  It would be no different if a VN family lived next door to me.  I would never insult them and tell them "you can't do this because this is not your turf".  They are not visitors, tourists etc., it is their home and where ever you make your home, it is your turf, period.  See my comment above, even those who would state it is their turf, locals know it is wrong and defend their family.

5.  Food for thought, maybe it is the inaction of people that explains why VN is still a 3rd world communist country.

What a great post vndreamer & well said!!

THIGV wrote:

Indices wrote:

I have a long history here going back to '73 and am well familiar with Vietnamese life.

Indices wrote:

67 actually.

I had forgotten that at the tender age of 21, you were a citizen of a non-combatant country, employed in the Vietnamese countryside. 

Moving on, I might observe that public urination in Vietnam is partly a function of a lack of public toilets  and public toilets with a fee, even if small.  If you don't want to have people urinating in public, provide an alternative.  The same applies to wastebaskets.  These are now showing up in parks disguised as penguins  but still not enough.  I remember my school had a tiny wastebasket on the landing between every other floor.  No wonder teachers had to stay on top of the kids to not leave rubbish in the rooms.

My favorite urinals were those on the bridges over the Seine in Paris  that emptied directly into the river.  They were shielded from sight only from the waist down.  I expect they are long gone now.    Now the city has introduced  eco-friendly composting units to which some modern Parisiens still object.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDBIAHu … ;index=606  Funny how sensibilities change with time.  These peoples fathers and grandfathers were peeing in the river!  Perhaps some entrepreneurial Viet Kieu expat in Paris could get the franchise on these and peddle them to Vietnamese cities or better yet make them in Vietnam and sell them back to Paris.

Dont see many women pissing in full view of everyone due to the lack of public toilets in  Vietnam 
I did wonder about the French Connection, as I remember going back a good  few years now the French had some pretty base toilet habits.
All very well to have waste bins in the parks etc, thing is you have to have the energy or mind set to actually empty them when they are full!!!

vndreamer wrote:

5.  Food for thought, maybe it is the inaction of people that explains why VN is still a 3rd world communist country.

Yes, I'm sure Vietnam would be greatly impoved by a bunch of geriatric tossers valiantly beating up the locals every time they saw something they didn't like.

We must all strive to hammer these disgusting savages into line!

I look forward to seeing organised squadrons of you lot marching about and delivering sound thrashings wherever neccessary to the indigenous barbarians!

Brick23 wrote:

vndreamer wrote:

5.  Food for thought, maybe it is the inaction of people that explains why VN is still a 3rd world communist country.

Yes, I'm sure Vietnam would be greatly impoved by a bunch of geriatric tossers valiantly beating up the locals every time they saw something they didn't like.

We must all strive to hammer these disgusting savages into line!

I look forward to seeing organised squadrons of you lot marching about and delivering sound thrashings wherever neccessary to the indigenous barbarians!

OFFS lets get at it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxa3mNrEmkY

No need for violence. Should have got out your phone and told him everyone on facebook is going to see his tiny penis. See how quickly he puts it back in without even shaking it.

Brick23 wrote:

vndreamer wrote:

5.  Food for thought, maybe it is the inaction of people that explains why VN is still a 3rd world communist country.

Yes, I'm sure Vietnam would be greatly impoved by a bunch of geriatric tossers valiantly beating up the locals every time they saw something they didn't like.

We must all strive to hammer these disgusting savages into line!

I look forward to seeing organised squadrons of you lot marching about and delivering sound thrashings wherever neccessary to the indigenous barbarians!

I'm glad I wasn't drinking something when I read this.

I would have had a fountain squirting out of my nose.

Great visual...

Vndreamer: this is NEVER your turf, and never it be; don't pretend it is!  Show me a card that says: permanent resident of Vietnam - then I will agree, but not otherwise. So what if you had stayed here for umpteen years!!  You are Forever only are a guest and that is what was on that taxi driver's mind knowing there is always local support around. Its not worth to challenge status quo!

If I may add a comment.... the persons who urinate in public in Vietnam are almost entirely from the lower end of the educational scale. They may very well have criminal connections.
Those who have lived in Vietnam for a while will understand that the Vietnamese will probably stick up for each other rather than support a foreigner even if the foreigner is in the right - and this comes down to education too, very few people you meet in the street here will be well educated.

Then you have to take into account Vietnamese logic. An example: I live in a 98% Vietnamese enclave with 24 7 security. At around 0400 hrs one morning I found one of our security guards asleep in a sleeping bag under one of the benches that are located at various places. Later on I asked the security supervisor why he hadn't made checks to ensure all the guards were alert. His response was that the security guard had two jobs; one day job at a supermarket where it was not possible for the guy to sleep, so, obviously, he had to sleep on the job at our estate. Moreover another resident opined that we shouldn't treat our security guards like dogs, if they need sleep they should sleep. Such is the logic here.

Well said. Its the 'idiotic foreign change agents vs masses of ignorant citizenry" challenge going full scale now!  Watch watch on and place your bets...

eodmatt wrote:

If I may add a comment.... the persons who urinate in public in Vietnam are almost entirely from the lower end of the educational scale. They may very well have criminal connections.
WTF is that about

Then you have to take into account Vietnamese logic. An example: I live in a 98% Vietnamese enclave with 24 7 security. At around 0400 hrs one morning I found one of our security guards asleep in a sleeping bag under one of the benches that are located at various places. Later on I asked the security supervisor why he hadn't made checks to ensure all the guards were alert. His response was that the security guard had two jobs; one day job at a supermarket where it was not possible for the guy to sleep, so, obviously, he had to sleep on the job at our estate. Moreover another resident opined that we shouldn't treat our security guards like dogs, if they need sleep they should sleep. Such is the logic here.

Sounds about right!! poor guy you are so bad to bring that up with his supervisor!

LSP123 wrote:

Vndreamer: this is NEVER your turf, and never it be; don't pretend it is!  Show me a card that says: permanent resident of Vietnam - then I will agree, but not otherwise. So what if you had stayed here for umpteen years!!  You are Forever only are a guest and that is what was on that taxi driver's mind knowing there is always local support around. Its not worth to challenge status quo!

Got a question for you, you say you are from Singapore....right? so in the same situation being discussed here but in Singapore, if a foreigner (possibly a tourist) is sitting at a road side cafe quietly having time with his wife & a taxi driver draws up 3 meters away, gets out his cab,  *** has a p*** in full view of everyone, the foreigner reacts & the police are involved.
1.....What would be the outcome for the foreigner?
2.... What would be the outcome for the taxi driver? my guess that taxi driver would not get off scot free,

Hello, glad you asked. Singapore is Governed by effective laws, no comparison to a lawless country. Police are everywhere! No one would DARE do what you suggested , least of all, a taxi driver, who may even be a graduate. Moreover we have plentiful public toilets in public, in malls, even in police stations, free of charge. Take a trip or ask someone who has been there, get your answer.. We have developed nation status..

LSP123 wrote:

Hello, glad you asked. Singapore is Governed by effective laws, no comparison to a lawless country. Police are everywhere! No one would DARE do what you suggested , least of all, a taxi driver, who may even be a graduate. Moreover we have plentiful public toilets in public, in malls, even in police stations, free of charge. Take a trip or ask someone who has been there, get your answer.. We have developed nation status..

You may want to do some research before posting. There are several news items anout this.

Pissing taxi driver

LSP123 wrote:

Hello, glad you asked. Singapore is Governed by effective laws, no comparison to a lawless country. Police are everywhere! No one would DARE do what you suggested , least of all, a taxi driver, who may even be a graduate. Moreover we have plentiful public toilets in public, in malls, even in police stations, free of charge. Take a trip or ask someone who has been there, get your answer.. We have developed nation status..

Lived & worked in Singapore for more than 2 years, just wanted to ask you if you are a Singaporean what the answer would be.

Same with spitting & blowing snot from your nose onto the street or restaurant floor would not be tolerated in Singapore & lack of toilets here has nothing to do with that disgusting habit!

Oh yes sadly our ingrained values have been eroded over time. There are too many foreign residents these days bringing their own stupid manners. Well, even in every country, there are always some black sheep around but witness the public fury and reprimands directly. Would he dare to repeat that? I doubt so ...

LSP123 wrote:

Oh yes sadly our ingrained values have been eroded over time. There are too many foreign residents these days bringing their own stupid manners. Well, even in every country, there are always some black sheep around but witness the public fury and reprimands directly. Would he dare to repeat that? I doubt so ...

So sorry, I dont understand your meaning or the point you are making here. Can you clarify please?

This was in response to Colinoscapee link to a news report that a Singaporean taxi driver was caught on camera pissing in public..
The company's PR manageress immediately reprimanded the guy. So, i just wondered whether he had genuine reason to do so because it would not be tolerated otherwise.
Public censure is strong in a small nation like Singapore..

Brick23 wrote:

vndreamer wrote:

5.  Food for thought, maybe it is the inaction of people that explains why VN is still a 3rd world communist country.

Yes, I'm sure Vietnam would be greatly impoved by a bunch of geriatric tossers valiantly beating up the locals every time they saw something they didn't like.

We must all strive to hammer these disgusting savages into line!

I look forward to seeing organised squadrons of you lot marching about and delivering sound thrashings wherever neccessary to the indigenous barbarians!

Too childish to be worth comment.

LSP123 wrote:

Oh yes sadly our ingrained values have been eroded over time. There are too many foreign residents these days bringing their own stupid manners. Well, even in every country, there are always some black sheep around but witness the public fury and reprimands directly. Would he dare to repeat that? I doubt so ...

You may recall that it was foreigners that dragged Singapore out of the dark ages and established the society that now exists there.

"As for looking for support I have no interest in approval from expats or anyone else. What happened happened, I was simply reporting it. If that is not the point of a forum then I apologise for posting it and will refrain from further comment"

Looks like you just can't refrain.

A few foreigners maybe but let's not start all that praise again about Mr LEE Kwan Yew..pls,,? Lots of Malaysians were involved too..

After replying to this post, I went for dinner last night here in Danang.
Walking past a certain bar, I noticed a viet man going for a pee, OUTSIDE the toilet into the bushes, the toilet was several feet away, and there was no line up.
And who is coming down the street? A man, wife pushing at stroller.with a baby.
I laughed and thought of this post.
I rode my bike yesterday to bana hills, countless times I saw driver on the side of the road peeing. Gas station all over with washroom facilities, but no , n the side of the road.
Riding my bike back, I saw 2 vehicles, go to the far right lane, only to throw garbage out the window in the ditch.
Bottom line is, they just don't care, it's what they do, we won't change this.
My responce would have been to simply stay in the restaurant, walk over, empty my glass of water, or such liquid I had at him, scorn him, and sit back down.

colinoscapee wrote:

"As for looking for support I have no interest in approval from expats or anyone else. What happened happened, I was simply reporting it. If that is not the point of a forum then I apologise for posting it and will refrain from further comment"

Looks like you just can't refrain.

My response was to the relevant post. I was not aware I need your permission to comment on others.

Canman62 wrote:

After replying to this post, I went for dinner last night here in Danang.
Walking past a certain bar, I noticed a viet man going for a pee, OUTSIDE the toilet into the bushes, the toilet was several feet away, and there was no line up.
And who is coming down the street? A man, wife pushing at stroller.with a baby.
I laughed and thought of this post.
I rode my bike yesterday to bana hills, countless times I saw driver on the side of the road peeing. Gas station all over with washroom facilities, but no , n the side of the road.
Riding my bike back, I saw 2 vehicles, go to the far right lane, only to throw garbage out the window in the ditch.
Bottom line is, they just don't care, it's what they do, we won't change this.
My responce would have been to simply stay in the restaurant, walk over, empty my glass of water, or such liquid I had at him, scorn him, and sit back down.

A lot of this stems from the parents and grandparents taking kids out on the street to piss, even outside of their own properties which has a perfectly good bathroom inside.

In Ha Noi there was a set if stairs leading into a market, the stench from the stairs nearly knocked you over.

Very interesting post. Started with an account about taxi driver peeing then a fight with a fine, then moving on to foreigners trying to change basic VN rude behavior, then culture, about lawless country and claiming this is 'their turf' because they live here long enough, insult and pride being hurt, bashing is what I would do, regard less, then now dragging in Singapore and grabbing some credit for developing the 3rd richest country in the world! Aiya, enough, I rest my case, period!

LSP123 wrote:

Very interesting post. Started with an account about taxi driver peeing then a fight with a fine, then moving on to foreigners trying to change basic VN rude behavior, then culture, about lawless country and claiming this is 'their turf' because they live here long enough, insult and pride being hurt, bashing is what I would do, regard less, then now dragging in Singapore and grabbing some credit for developing the 3rd richest country in the world! Aiya, enough, I rest my case, period!

Please do.  You have stated enough BS already and it was you that brought Singapore into the thread.

colinoscapee wrote:

Canman62 wrote:

After replying to this post, I went for dinner last night here in Danang.
Walking past a certain bar, I noticed a viet man going for a pee, OUTSIDE the toilet into the bushes, the toilet was several feet away, and there was no line up.
And who is coming down the street? A man, wife pushing at stroller.with a baby.
I laughed and thought of this post.
I rode my bike yesterday to bana hills, countless times I saw driver on the side of the road peeing. Gas station all over with washroom facilities, but no , n the side of the road.
Riding my bike back, I saw 2 vehicles, go to the far right lane, only to throw garbage out the window in the ditch.
Bottom line is, they just don't care, it's what they do, we won't change this.
My responce would have been to simply stay in the restaurant, walk over, empty my glass of water, or such liquid I had at him, scorn him, and sit back down.

A lot of this stems from the parents and grandparents taking kids out on the street to piss, even outside of their own properties which has a perfectly good bathroom inside.

In Ha Noi there was a set if stairs leading into a market, the stench from the stairs nearly knocked you over.

gotta tell you this one..........1 doors down the lobby from my apartment there is a single mom, baby boy & Grandma living (old Vietnamese guy takes care!!)
I swear this is the truth,...... one day Grandma appears at the door of their apartment, holds the kid up & lets him do a piss right there in the lobby with me looking on. Needless to say I let her have it verbally, she just looked like......whats he so angry about!!   WTF is that about then??

Canman62 wrote:

After replying to this post, I went for dinner last night here in Danang.
Walking past a certain bar, I noticed a viet man going for a pee, OUTSIDE the toilet into the bushes, the toilet was several feet away, and there was no line up.
And who is coming down the street? A man, wife pushing at stroller.with a baby.
I laughed and thought of this post.
I rode my bike yesterday to bana hills, countless times I saw driver on the side of the road peeing. Gas station all over with washroom facilities, but no , n the side of the road.
Riding my bike back, I saw 2 vehicles, go to the far right lane, only to throw garbage out the window in the ditch.
Bottom line is, they just don't care, it's what they do, we won't change this.
My responce would have been to simply stay in the restaurant, walk over, empty my glass of water, or such liquid I had at him, scorn him, and sit back down.

man you just hit it on the nail & said it all in that one post!! no need for more!

goodolboy wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Canman62 wrote:

After replying to this post, I went for dinner last night here in Danang.
Walking past a certain bar, I noticed a viet man going for a pee, OUTSIDE the toilet into the bushes, the toilet was several feet away, and there was no line up.
And who is coming down the street? A man, wife pushing at stroller.with a baby.
I laughed and thought of this post.
I rode my bike yesterday to bana hills, countless times I saw driver on the side of the road peeing. Gas station all over with washroom facilities, but no , n the side of the road.
Riding my bike back, I saw 2 vehicles, go to the far right lane, only to throw garbage out the window in the ditch.
Bottom line is, they just don't care, it's what they do, we won't change this.
My responce would have been to simply stay in the restaurant, walk over, empty my glass of water, or such liquid I had at him, scorn him, and sit back down.

A lot of this stems from the parents and grandparents taking kids out on the street to piss, even outside of their own properties which has a perfectly good bathroom inside.

In Ha Noi there was a set if stairs leading into a market, the stench from the stairs nearly knocked you over.

gotta tell you this one..........1 doors down the lobby from my apartment there is a single mom, baby boy & Grandma living (old Vietnamese guy takes care!!)
I swear this is the truth,...... one day Grandma appears at the door of their apartment, holds the kid up & lets him do a piss right there in the lobby with me looking on. Needless to say I let her have it verbally, she just looked like......whats he so angry about!!   WTF is that about then??

Jeez, I know how you must have been disgusted. The first night my wife's estranged younger sister and infant child came to stay with us after being beaten up by her husband we were about to sit down for the evening meal and she picked up her boy, took him to the courtyard door and held him while he pissed on the floor. This despite the house having 4 bathrooms one of which was only 15ft or so from the table we were sitting at. Suffice to say she never did do that again !

It seems you can't read. It was goodolboy that asked me a question about Singapore. Of course i feel damn proud about my country in global rankings..

LSP123 wrote:

It seems you can't read. It was goodolboy that asked me a question about Singapore. Of course i feel damn proud about my country in global rankings..

Those rankings are GNI.

LSP123 wrote:

It seems you can't read. It was goodolboy that asked me a question about Singapore. Of course i feel damn proud about my country in global rankings..

" Period " ?
So put your toys back in the pram and enjoy your life in your wonderful country that has hookers accosting tourists when walking from the Shangri La to the Orchard Towers market anytime after 7pm
( something I quite enjoyed actually ) , the countless hundreds of illegal workers that live in sheer poverty and are tolerated by the authorities due to the need for cheap labour, their inability with their wonderful healthcare to control Covid, mosquito's, Denge fever etc and of course the Taxis that do their very best to take the longest most ridiculous routes from the airport to hotel. Singapore like all other cities is far from being Avalon.

Indices wrote:

Brick23 wrote:

vndreamer wrote:

5.  Food for thought, maybe it is the inaction of people that explains why VN is still a 3rd world communist country.

Yes, I'm sure Vietnam would be greatly impoved by a bunch of geriatric tossers valiantly beating up the locals every time they saw something they didn't like.

We must all strive to hammer these disgusting savages into line!

I look forward to seeing organised squadrons of you lot marching about and delivering sound thrashings wherever neccessary to the indigenous barbarians!

Too childish to be worth comment.

Stern judgement and harsh rebuke indeed from "I'd do it again!" Indices, master of adult impulse control!

Racist? What? Who?

Brick23 wrote:

Indices wrote:

Brick23 wrote:

Yes, I'm sure Vietnam would be greatly impoved by a bunch of geriatric tossers valiantly beating up the locals every time they saw something they didn't like.

We must all strive to hammer these disgusting savages into line!

I look forward to seeing organised squadrons of you lot marching about and delivering sound thrashings wherever neccessary to the indigenous barbarians!

Too childish to be worth comment.

Stern judgement and harsh rebuke indeed from "I'd do it again!" Indices, master of adult impulse control!

Unfortunately, nobody listening to you.

Jock talk orgasm in progress...

🙄