Irritating dating scenario

Brick23 wrote:

Have you noticed that every other hotel in the country has a sign outside clearly displaying their hourly rates for rooms? These people are at it like rabbits 24/7. When in Rome etc...

The hourly rates in hotels are actually a function of modesty in the population.  Young couples who live at home must use them for romantic liaison.  Admittedly, they are also used for adulterous relationships.  I don't think the Vietnamese are involved in sexual activity more than any other people.  They just find it difficult to do it at home.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Brick23 wrote:

Have you noticed that every other hotel in the country has a sign outside clearly displaying their hourly rates for rooms? These people are at it like rabbits 24/7. When in Rome etc...

Yes those are "nha nghi" (House of meditation or thought? nghi being "to think", maybe someone can translate). Anyway, they're definitely everywhere. We could say that they just can't wait for the wedding to go at it 

Different marker on nghĩ , thought.... nhà nghi means motel.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Yes those are "nha nghi" (House of meditation or thought? nghi being "to think", maybe someone can translate). Anyway, they're definitely everywhere. We could say that they just can't wait for the wedding to go at it 

Here is one of the reasons I highly recommend learning Vietnamese with a Northerner even if you prefer to speak the Southern dialect as Willy:

Above the i in the word " nhà nghỉ " is the accent mark that looks either like a hook or a question mark without the dot (dấu hỏi)

Above the i in the word " suy nghĩ " is the accent mark called tilde (dấu ngã).

The pronunciations of nghỉ and nghĩ are distinctively different to the Northerners, but most Southerners can't differentiate them.  They cannot pronounce words with the tilde, so they change them all to the dotless question mark.

Willy -- House of meditation can be translated to " nhà nghĩ " if you wish, although it would sound very strange to Vietnamese. 

A very short term rental, however, is nhà nghỉ where people stop in to rest (nghỉ) or to do whatever pleases them, but almost never to think (nghĩ).

Ciambella wrote:

Here is one of the reasons I highly recommend learning Vietnamese with a Northerner even if you prefer to speak the Southern dialect as Willy

Thanks for the explanation @Ciambella, that's really beyond my skills I said "maybe someone can translate" knowing full well I would not trust my own translation The woman I'm currently dating is actually from Hanoi and it's so difficult for me to understand what she says compared to a Southerner. Even the words she uses are often different. Then you get the Southerners use "tiếng" for time duration but Northerners use "giờ" for time duration, but they both use "giờ" for an hour on the clock. This is very challenging.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Then you get the Southerners use "tiếng" for time duration but Northerners use "giờ" for time duration, but they both use "giờ" for an hour on the clock. This is very challenging.

Great learning, Willy.   You're recognising the nuances already!

This thread with the wannabe "Vietnamese women experts" reminds me of my youth and the German youth magazine Bravo with the sex consultant Dr. Sommer.
"I always sweat extremely when I talk to Susanne. What can I do about it, I'm desperate?"

No, VN folks probably don't "do it" more frequently but they do seem to have more partners. Viet people also think Americans have sex day and night, every day - probably from the TV and movies they watch.

WillyBaldy wrote:

Brick23 wrote:

Have you noticed that every other hotel in the country has a sign outside clearly displaying their hourly rates for rooms? These people are at it like rabbits 24/7. When in Rome etc...

Yes those are "nha nghi" (House of meditation or thought? nghi being "to think", maybe someone can translate). Anyway, they're definitely everywhere. We could say that they just can't wait for the wedding to go at it 

Yes, "nghi" means "to think", but in this context, it means "to rest." "Nha nghi" actually means a "rest house."

roy little wrote:

. Viet people also think Americans have sex day and night, every day.

How do I apply for US citizenship?

Fred wrote:

roy little wrote:

. Viet people also think Americans have sex day and night, every day.

How do I apply for US citizenship?

All day and night Fred, not all of a minute.

Ciambella wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

Then you get the Southerners use "tiếng" for time duration but Northerners use "giờ" for time duration, but they both use "giờ" for an hour on the clock. This is very challenging.

Great learning, Willy.   You're recognising the nuances already!

There's a young owner of a small English school here and he's giving me a weekly Vietnamese lesson in exchange for a coffee. That's a very good deal! Anyway, both his parents are from the North but he's born here, so he speaks the North when talking to his parents, and the South with his friends. I think he could be a great source of knowledge for me as a bridge between both "dialects".

stevengo wrote:

Yes, "nghi" means "to think", but in this context, it means "to rest." "

Nope.  It's not a difference in context; they're two different words with two different meanings.

Ah, I stand corrected. I'm still learning myself.

stevengo wrote:

Ah, I stand corrected. I'm still learning myself.

That's a tricky one, got fooled by it myself. Anyway, the point is they're everywhere in here and I never got to use any of them. I'm clearly incompetent

I'm not in the scene myself but I've come to realize that maybe we're all thinking of this the wrong way.

By inviting her friends out the girl might think that she's providing an opportunity for you to strut your stuff.   What we think of as women being inconsiderate in their subconscious they might actually think that they are being extremely considerate.  She might not have thought of a man inviting her to an expensive restaurant as treating her but so he can be-a-boss so why not give him a bigger audience by inviting her friend?

Vietnamese women let Vietnamese men get away with a lot of stupid stuff.  A man has a small promotion and then thinks he's all that and starts cheating on his wife.  And yet the wife blames the mistress.   The east is too extreme on one end, the west on the other (I'm looking at you women who sometimes want men to open doors for them and other times get mad because they can-do-it-themselves).

videriant wrote:

I'm not in the scene myself but I've come to realize that maybe we're all thinking of this the wrong way.

By inviting her friends out the girl might think that she's providing an opportunity for you to strut your stuff.   What we think of as women being inconsiderate in their subconscious they might actually think that they are being extremely considerate.  She might not have thought of a man inviting her to an expensive restaurant as treating her but so he can be-a-boss so why not give him a bigger audience by inviting her friend?

Vietnamese women let Vietnamese men get away with a lot of stupid stuff.  A man has a small promotion and then thinks he's all that and starts cheating on his wife.  And yet the wife blames the mistress.   The east is too extreme on one end, the west on the other (I'm looking at you women who sometimes want men to open doors for them and other times get mad because they can-do-it-themselves).

I think you're right, at least in many cases.

All the single mothers I've talked to moan about Viet men, but then I see them treating their sons like precious little lords, instead of the lazy little gits that they are. So the men all grow up thinking women exist purely to serve them.

Last week I came back to my apartment to find my landlady changing the brake pads on her son's scooter. I'm like, Sister, WTF are you doing, he's 20! But no, he was too 'tired' - presumably too tired from the effort of watching his mother spend her every waking minute pandering to him. Mindboggling.

Brick23 wrote:

videriant wrote:

I'm not in the scene myself but I've come to realize that maybe we're all thinking of this the wrong way.

By inviting her friends out the girl might think that she's providing an opportunity for you to strut your stuff.   What we think of as women being inconsiderate in their subconscious they might actually think that they are being extremely considerate.  She might not have thought of a man inviting her to an expensive restaurant as treating her but so he can be-a-boss so why not give him a bigger audience by inviting her friend?

Vietnamese women let Vietnamese men get away with a lot of stupid stuff.  A man has a small promotion and then thinks he's all that and starts cheating on his wife.  And yet the wife blames the mistress.   The east is too extreme on one end, the west on the other (I'm looking at you women who sometimes want men to open doors for them and other times get mad because they can-do-it-themselves).

I think you're right, at least in many cases.

All the single mothers I've talked to moan about Viet men, but then I see them treating their sons like precious little lords, instead of the lazy little gits that they are. So the men all grow up thinking women exist purely to serve them.

Last week I came back to my apartment to find my landlady changing the brake pads on her son's scooter. I'm like, Sister, WTF are you doing, he's 20! But no, he was too 'tired' - presumably too tired from the effort of watching his mother spend her every waking minute pandering to him. Mindboggling.

Exactly, been saying the same thing for years.

We have a small boy near our house, he takes up everyone in the family's time and energy, he knows that if he screams and throw tantrums he will get what he wants. The parents and grandparents are slaves to there little god.

Ive had mamy dates here over many years..not even once she brought someone else or have asked me to do so :-)

Dan911 wrote:

Ive had mamy dates here over many years..not even once she brought someone else or have asked me to do so :-)

Did you get many dates outside Saigon in smaller, local cities?

WillyBaldy wrote:

Dan911 wrote:

Ive had mamy dates here over many years..not even once she brought someone else or have asked me to do so :-)

Did you get many dates outside Saigon in smaller, local cities?

No ,only saigon so
far.

But I really think ordinary girl is not bringing friends.

Dan911 wrote:

But I really think ordinary girl is not bringing friends.

My wife told me that (some weeks before we met the first time) an older foreigner wanted date her.
She agreed to meet him in a Vietnamese restaurant (not expensive) near her room (which she shared with 3 other younger women).
She brought the 3 roommates without prior notice.
All of them then ordered plenty food. But the restaurant was not expensive and the bill was maybe 1 million Dong.
The older foreigner went quite fast and never came back.

She told me that this was a test.
If he already runs away after a first date because of such a small thing, he is certainly not suitable to give her a carefree future with marriage and children.

By the way, on the first date with me she came alone and we ate delicious food on the 23/9 weekend food market.

AkaMaverick wrote:

Dan911 wrote:

But I really think ordinary girl is not bringing friends.

My wife told me that (some weeks before we met the first time) an older foreigner wanted date her.
She agreed to meet him in a Vietnamese restaurant (not expensive) near her room (which she shared with 3 other younger women).
She brought the 3 roommates without prior notice.
All of them then ordered plenty food. But the restaurant was not expensive and the bill was maybe 1 million Dong.
The older foreigner went quite fast and never came back.

She told me that this was a test.
If he already runs away after a first date because of such a small thing, he is certainly not suitable to give her a carefree future with marriage and children.

By the way, on the first date with me she came alone and we ate delicious food on the 23/9 weekend food market.

Maybe a small thing to her, but to a foreigner its very impolite.

colinoscapee wrote:

AkaMaverick wrote:

Dan911 wrote:

But I really think ordinary girl is not bringing friends.

My wife told me that (some weeks before we met the first time) an older foreigner wanted date her.
She agreed to meet him in a Vietnamese restaurant (not expensive) near her room (which she shared with 3 other younger women).
She brought the 3 roommates without prior notice.
All of them then ordered plenty food. But the restaurant was not expensive and the bill was maybe 1 million Dong.
The older foreigner went quite fast and never came back.

She told me that this was a test.
If he already runs away after a first date because of such a small thing, he is certainly not suitable to give her a carefree future with marriage and children.

By the way, on the first date with me she came alone and we ate delicious food on the 23/9 weekend food market.

Maybe a small thing to her, but to a foreigner its very impolite.

My pity for such foreigners is limited.
If you meet one after the other girl for fun, you should inform yourself about the dating behaviour in the respective cultures beforehand. Because this behaviour of the girls is not unusual here in Vietnam.

AkaMaverick wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

AkaMaverick wrote:

My wife told me that (some weeks before we met the first time) an older foreigner wanted date her.
She agreed to meet him in a Vietnamese restaurant (not expensive) near her room (which she shared with 3 other younger women).
She brought the 3 roommates without prior notice.
All of them then ordered plenty food. But the restaurant was not expensive and the bill was maybe 1 million Dong.
The older foreigner went quite fast and never came back.

She told me that this was a test.
If he already runs away after a first date because of such a small thing, he is certainly not suitable to give her a carefree future with marriage and children.

By the way, on the first date with me she came alone and we ate delicious food on the 23/9 weekend food market.

Maybe a small thing to her, but to a foreigner its very impolite.

My pity for such foreigners is limited.
If you meet one after the other girl for fun, you should inform yourself about the dating behaviour in the respective cultures beforehand. Because this behaviour of the girls is not unusual here in Vietnam.

True, but it works both ways.

AkaMaverick wrote:

My pity for such foreigners is limited.
If you meet one after the other girl for fun, you should inform yourself about the dating behaviour in the respective cultures beforehand. Because this behaviour of the girls is not unusual here in Vietnam.

Well what she did is impolite, *even* in Vietnamese culture. I'm sorry but to bring three friends without prior notice is not something you do, even here, when you're a decent person. Now, I'm not saying your wife was not decent, because it was a test and she can test the way she wants, but if I wanted something serious I would have done the same thing as this guy and never come back. It's actually a weird test from my point of view because *if* the guy comes back it just proves he has no self respect and will be the biggest carpet humanity has ever invented. Is that what a woman wants as a husband?

WillyBaldy wrote:

AkaMaverick wrote:

My pity for such foreigners is limited.
If you meet one after the other girl for fun, you should inform yourself about the dating behaviour in the respective cultures beforehand. Because this behaviour of the girls is not unusual here in Vietnam.

Well what she did is impolite, *even* in Vietnamese culture. I'm sorry but to bring three friends without prior notice is not something you do, even here, when you're a decent person. Now, I'm not saying your wife was not decent, because it was a test and she can test the way she wants, but if I wanted something serious I would have done the same thing as this guy and never come back. It's actually a weird test from my point of view because *if* the guy comes back it just proves he has no self respect and will be the biggest carpet humanity has ever invented. Is that what a woman wants as a husband?

I don't see it that way.

If he had come back, he could have told her to come alone at the next date.
Then he might have (if he hadn't been an ass) found a young, pretty and empathetic woman for life.

You can't compare these women with Western women. Here the requirement that the man can feed a family is a more important criterion than in the West.

My wife told me this story when we first met.
I met her again and married her.
Do I feel like a big carped?
Not at all!

By the way, years ago I had a date with a Thai woman who also brought two friends.
I had a longer relationship with one of these two girls.
You have to make the best out of every situation instead of being offended.

Not replying to any one person in particular, though I agree with AkaMaverick (and his wife).

There used to be a question (in the USA, at least) that fathers would ask a man (boy) the first time the man-boy showed up to take out the daughter:

"What are your intentions?"

The man-boy was expected to declare that he was, in fact, formally "courting" the daughter, and that it was his intention to be a responsible married man in the not-too-distant future.

There is a difference, of course between admitting to looking for a wife vs. telling a woman you want to get married on the first date.

However, my experience is that Vietnamese women in general will get you to declare your intentions sooner rather than later.

I think Vietnamese women in general are better at quickly "qualifying" a man than are Western women.

IF a guy is not committed to the hope of being married in the future, then it's my experience that Vietnamese women will consider you to be, essentially, a player.

The idea of going out together to see what happens is still, I think, a predominantly western concept.

IF the woman were still younger and unmarried, I'd bet you would need to invite her and SOME of her family out together for your first coffee/tea date.

So just because she is older and perhaps divorced with children doesn't mean that she won't want (her AND her family/friends) to be treated with a certain level of respect IF your
intention is "COURTING".

Yes, I know, there are other possible scenarios, including women who simply want to take advantage of a man with money to the greatest degree possible.

I am NOT saying that a Western guy usually has to decide if he wants to marry a woman before they have their first date.

I am saying that the best first step in dating Vietnamese women is to have a clear and certain understanding of YOUR own future intentions. 

Then you can honestly tell a woman that you have NO intention of getting married OR having children with her, and that you essentially want her companionship and affection.

Good luck with that...

It seems what offends a foreigner has no bearing, as long as the girl does as she likes.

Thats not how I approached things and I have been taking out asian women for around 30 years, here and at home.

There is always talk of Asian women wanting to marry a foreigner as soon as possible (looks like all foreigner are scare to marry an Asian woman).
But nobody speak about the opposite.

Until I turned 50, I was a happy bachelor who never wanted to get married and wanted to have children. Yes, I didn't even want to move in with a girlfriend.
When I turned 50, I felt the need to get married and start a family (with or without children), because I didn't intend to grow lonely (I'm not a social).

I wanted to marry my Thai girlfriend in the past, buy land and build a house.
After that I had a friend from Hanoi who I wanted to marry.

Finally I reached my goal with my present wife.

For this reason I never noticed that the Asian women wanted to marry as fast as possible.

Of course I could enjoy the bachelor life for a few more years.

But with more than 60 it is not so easy to find a woman according to my requirements even in Asia.

Last week I came back to my apartment to find my landlady changing the brake pads on her son's scooter. I'm like, Sister, WTF are you doing, he's 20! But no, he was too 'tired' - presumably too tired from the effort of watching his mother spend her every waking minute pandering to him. Mindboggling.

Mindboggling for his mother to change his motorcycle brakes. Sickening if she has to give him an oil change.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

IF the woman were still younger and unmarried, I'd bet you would need to invite her and SOME of her family out together for your first coffee/tea date.

I have no problem with that, as long as she asks *first*. That's the decent thing to do, and all the Vietnamese women I dated always asked first, even the shady ones who would ask only a few minutes before.

AkaMaverick wrote:

If he had come back, he could have told her to come alone at the next date.
Then he might have (if he hadn't been an ass) found a young, pretty and empathetic woman for life.

You can't compare these women with Western women. Here the requirement that the man can feed a family is a more important criterion than in the West.

My wife told me this story when we first met.
I met her again and married her.
Do I feel like a big carped?
Not at all!

But I don't think she did the same thing to you, right? Anyway, I have no problem with your different point of view but I'm pretty convinced if the test was about "making sure he'd be a great family person" I really don't think that's the way to go. You can definitely lose great potential people like this. Doing something that is knowingly "rude" in your culture just to test your date is a bad start I think..

In the dating world, we all look for "red flags" in our first dates, I think it's natural especially when you're a bit more experienced and less naive.

Now, maybe I should start testing too. Call another woman while I'm with a new date, just to see if she's the jealous type?

Some older men would welcome the chance at having dinner with a younger lovely lady. To have the company of 3-4 at dinner?
Personally I would be quite happy to have this problem😂😂
As I look outside into the snow, and see the thermometer -23 c this morning, I can only look forward to having such pain inflicted on me in a months time.
Hey, things could be worse.

WillyBaldy wrote:

AkaMaverick wrote:

My pity for such foreigners is limited.
If you meet one after the other girl for fun, you should inform yourself about the dating behaviour in the respective cultures beforehand. Because this behaviour of the girls is not unusual here in Vietnam.

Well what she did is impolite, *even* in Vietnamese culture. I'm sorry but to bring three friends without prior notice is not something you do, even here, when you're a decent person. Now, I'm not saying your wife was not decent, because it was a test and she can test the way she wants, but if I wanted something serious I would have done the same thing as this guy and never come back. It's actually a weird test from my point of view because *if* the guy comes back it just proves he has no self respect and will be the biggest carpet humanity has ever invented. Is that what a woman wants as a husband?

I am glad you spoke up because you are right, depending on many factors.  When people generalize, there are always bias and personal experiences that cannot identify/define an entire culture.  Out of respect for the generalized comment, I stayed silent.  But for those with similar experiences, you are correct, but it depends on what type of person you are looking for in a life time commitment, there are major differences between social economic groups in all countries, not just VN.

chenwen wrote:

Last week I came back to my apartment to find my landlady changing the brake pads on her son's scooter. I'm like, Sister, WTF are you doing, he's 20! But no, he was too 'tired' - presumably too tired from the effort of watching his mother spend her every waking minute pandering to him. Mindboggling.

Mindboggling for his mother to change his motorcycle brakes. Sickening if she has to give him an oil change.

Spend some time in VN with a VN family and you will see the women doing amazing things that I never saw in the west.  For example, the first day I arrived, my girl friend now wife, picked me up with my bag and on the way home, got a flat front tire, yet she managed to get us to her neighborhood to get it fixed.  When we get a flat, I don't even notice, but when it starts to get low, she says "honey, we have a flat".  I look down and it looks good to me and then 10 minutes later, a flat tire.  I have seen her take care of the motobike like men take care of cars in the west, just wonderful in my opinion!

WillyBaldy wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

IF the woman were still younger and unmarried, I'd bet you would need to invite her and SOME of her family out together for your first coffee/tea date.

I have no problem with that, as long as she asks *first*. That's the decent thing to do, and all the Vietnamese women I dated always asked first, even the shady ones who would ask only a few minutes before.

I agree and my experiences as well.  However, my first date was a lunch during her work break so there was no friends or family and it was in the middle of the day.  However, we did have some outings with friends/co-workers, I was never asked to pay and nobody ever batted an eye and was always a good time, on many occasions.  It tells you a lot about the people your gf/wife hangs out with (i.e., all of them are professionals with University degrees).

Canman62 wrote:

Some older men would welcome the chance at having dinner with a younger lovely lady. To have the company of 3-4 at dinner?
Personally I would be quite happy to have this problem😂😂
As I look outside into the snow, and see the thermometer -23 c this morning, I can only look forward to having such pain inflicted on me in a months time.
Hey, things could be worse.

Now that I think of it, I love your perspective. You're a great fellow Canadian. Enjoy the cold my friend, I'm so glad to be here for the winter 

WillyBaldy wrote:

Canman62 wrote:

Some older men would welcome the chance at having dinner with a younger lovely lady. To have the company of 3-4 at dinner?
Personally I would be quite happy to have this problem😂😂
As I look outside into the snow, and see the thermometer -23 c this morning, I can only look forward to having such pain inflicted on me in a months time.
Hey, things could be worse.

Now that I think of it, I love your perspective. You're a great fellow Canadian. Enjoy the cold my friend, I'm so glad to be here for the winter 

I agree as well, it depends on many factors, from both sides.

vndreamer wrote:

WillyBaldy wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

IF the woman were still younger and unmarried, I'd bet you would need to invite her and SOME of her family out together for your first coffee/tea date.

I have no problem with that, as long as she asks *first*. That's the decent thing to do, and all the Vietnamese women I dated always asked first, even the shady ones who would ask only a few minutes before.

I agree and my experiences as well.  However, my first date was a lunch during her work break so there was no friends or family and it was in the middle of the day.  However, we did have some outings with friends/co-workers, I was never asked to pay and nobody ever batted an eye and was always a good time, on many occasions.  It tells you a lot about the people your gf/wife hangs out with (i.e., all of then are professionals with University degrees).

Yes, exactly, you can learn a lot based on how decent your girlfriend's friends are. I pick up a lot of cues from that.

It's funny: tonight I had what was supposed to be a two person dinner with my new date... but when we showed up at the bar/restaurant, a female Western friend of hers was there... then another Western friend joined (they're all English teachers, the only few expats on Rach Gia). SO I thought, "okay, here we go again, if it comes to it I'll foot the bill but be done with her". It's a somewhat expensive place. Anyway, we had a few drinks and only got French fries (it was not the type of "dinner" I had in mind but it's OK),

What really astounded me is that the Western women got up one by one and paid their own bill. I was almost "shocked" because I'm so used to a single bill for a whole table. I asked my date and she said yes it's normal in my group, we pay for each of our stuff. Now, I think Vietnamese culture got to me, but I kind of found that "selfish" We did not order that much and I would have preferred in this instance to foot the bill and then they can get the bill next time... Sometimes life throws you a curve ball