How to take back my singapore child from vietnam?

Vagabondone wrote:

Depends on the age of the child. Under age 3 mom has total control and she even decides when you can visit at her house. After age 3 you can petition the court to take the child out for visits by yourself. But by then she may have gone into hiding. The new law allows the child to decide at age 7 who they want to live with. But by then she has poisoned the child's mind against you. My lawyer said it is very common here in VN for the mother to take the child into hiding and you will never find them again. Sick minds. My ex played the game with the court and allowed me visits and played nicey nicey until the final decree was handed down. Now she has moved, changed phone numbers and emails go unanswered. I write each month trying to arrange a vist. But I do put his child support into a separate savings account for my son and do not pay her unless I get a visit. Here in VN if you live here they have yoy by the short hair when it comes to child support non-payment. You can be deported and denied access to VN. But the process seems fair. You are notified first and given the chance to present your side and pay up back support. VN citizens who owe support rarely pay the very small amount they are required to.

If my wife warred me like that, I'd leave Vietnam and pay nothing more.

I would bet that she would contact me again to continue on my terms.
There is a small danger that you will not see your child again.
But as it is now with you, it is not better.

I would then live a modest but good life from the rest of my fortune and with my pension in another Asian country with a low cost of living.

I will NEVER let any idiots ruin my life.

It seems like child custody and visitation law of Vietnam is pretty strange but what can an individual do about that?
Kelvin77 unfortunately your chances through the system of law seems pretty low, only difference here is your child was born in Singapore and a citizen of Singapore if it helps somehow against the mothers citizenship compare to french fathers case and according to Vietnams law (as Vagabondone explains).
Try to get along with your wife seems the smartest way to go. If you decide to go for it go all the way with all your strength, heart and mind but also be prepared not be disappointed because she is the one who holding all the power here. How she is going to use it no one knows.
You may win both back eventually or (God forbid!) you lose both however you also have to make sure not to lose yourself, that is the only power you are holding.   

There are also some questions here. When you decided to get a passport to your child and whose idea was it and why get a passport for an infant so early?

finnbo wrote:

There are also some questions here. When you decided to get a passport to your child and whose idea was it and why get a passport for an infant so early?

When a child is conceived from a non-Vietnamese parent, it's customary for lots of parents to get the child the foreign passport as quickly as possible when the foreign country is a developed country, because it will give a new higher 'status' to the kid. A Canadian friend of mine has had two kids in Vietnam and they had their Canadian passport when they were only a few months old I think.

WillyBaldy wrote:

finnbo wrote:

There are also some questions here. When you decided to get a passport to your child and whose idea was it and why get a passport for an infant so early?

When a child is conceived from a non-Vietnamese parent, it's customary for lots of parents to get the child the foreign passport as quickly as possible when the foreign country is a developed country, because it will give a new higher 'status' to the kid. A Canadian friend of mine has had two kids in Vietnam and they had their Canadian passport when they were only a few months old I think.

For me it was important that my child first became a citizen of Vietnam.
Afterwards I registered the child in my country and it automatically became a citizen of my country. The child is now a dual citizen.
I could have indicated on the application for the birth certificate that the child shall become a Swiss citizen. But afterwards it would be difficult for the child to obtain Vietnamese citizenship.

I find it presumptuous to assume that the child is better off with only one foreign passport.
China will be the world's number one power in a few years and other Asian countries will also develop rapidly.
Just by comparing the demographics of the age of the Asian countries (except Japan) with those of the Western countries, it is clear that this will happen.

A general question, why is it so important to get a passport as soon as possible?

If the child is a registered citizen of a country, the child can apply for the passport later at any time.

Andy Passenger wrote:

A general question, why is it so important to get a passport as soon as possible?

If the child is a registered citizen of a country, the child can apply for the passport later at any time.

As Willybaldy stated, it's all about status. A lot like having a round eye as a friend, different strokes for different folks.

colinoscapee wrote:

Andy Passenger wrote:

A general question, why is it so important to get a passport as soon as possible?

If the child is a registered citizen of a country, the child can apply for the passport later at any time.

As Willybaldy stated, it's all about status. A lot like having a round eye as a friend, different strokes for different folks.

Yes exactly and I'd like to add that with a country like Canada with "free" healthcare, if one kid ever gets very sick or if they need a complex operation for some reason, they could be "shipped" quickly to Canada without having to wait for the passport paperwork to be done. That's another reason my friend stated on top of the "status" thing which was more important to the Vietnamese mother than my friend.

Exactly. There are numerous reason to obtain citizens right for a child, depending on the country of citizenship. In the case of my child and spouse at the time they could draw a portion of my pension, my child could be enrolled in my medical plan ( which happens to be the best in the world in my opinion). I get the income tax deduction for my child as well. There is not a hospital in VN I would elect to take my child to for any serious medical needs. And with him on my medical plan I can have him flown by an air ambulance anywhere in the world. And even for my wife she can enforce divorce decrees once I get him his citizenship, Whereas now she can not. She made the mistake of denying him his citizenship. And there are numerous other advantages. Hard to find a disadvantage in my case, sans he would have to sign up for military service.

After I got involved in this discussion I also became interested in Vietnam and added the country to my future destinations. But when I come I will never rely on the civil law of this country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UahtSVpmZ8
This is OT but good to OP to know....

This is totally crazy. She insist that they will not be coming back.she is drving me crazy

Vagabondone wrote:

Hard to find a disadvantage in my case, sans he would have to sign up for military service.

Signing up for the draft in the US is pretty much a formality these days although still legally required.  You do it at the Post Office but I expect that US citizens living in Vietnam could register at the Embassy or Consulate.  On the other hand I believe there is still conscription in VN to consider.  This is conjecture but I don't think the VN military will draft a dual citizen.  My stepson who is solely a VN citizen, went to see about enlisting when he was 18 but was rejected because his biological father is Viet Kieu living in the US.

Hi bro,

When she was pregnant, she chose to come back sg to give birth. So once the baby is born in sg, my child is automatically a sporean. These few weeks have been a torture to me. When she need money or a hp, she will talk to me nicely, but if i did not send her money, she can change into another character and scolding vulgar words, asking me not to watsapp her or contact her again.
I gave in to her since she went back, talked to her nicely even when she scolded vulgar words on me, never shout at her, show more concern to her, but she is taking advantage of me being soft.
Its has been few weeks since she videocall me and let me see my baby. Few days ago, she sent me a video of my baby only.
Oh ya, the last time she requested for money to bring my child for blood test, i did sent her 500sgd but i don't think she used the money for blood test...that time she said the doctor felt that my child is too small size and requested to do blood test.
Wat a sad chinese new year for me this year.....

This is how they do it young man. They hold the baby out as bait when they want to pull your chain. She is paying you like a fiddle and your falling for it. Wise up young man, hold onto the wallet and stop communicating with her.

I concur: you are being played for the money

This should be more than obvious, so I also agree your best plan
is what you are already doing; earning it.

But don't throw it away.   The 'requests' have already become
demands, and they will only increase on your emotional and
biological investment.   So what should you do..?

"This too will pass" - doesn't work here, and (any) 'rescue' plan
must fail, for she holds the control over you.

(My suggestion..?)  - remove her power over you by cutting ALL
communication - completely.   Why?  Because YOU are the only
biological Father the child will ever have.   So what do you think
will happen WHEN (not if) the child grows up knowing (despite the
lies he will be told) that you are out there waiting to reconnect?

How will the child know?

Children come with a fully developed B/S filter.   As soon as they
can walk & talk, sorting out the truth is their main priority after the
'survival ethic' of staying alive.   IOW, they grow to know...

Sure, the first few years will be hard for you, but inversely, harder
for the child to believe her lies.   The Truth will out in the end and
her (yes, call it what it is) Evil plan to have you under her thumb as
she feeds you the crumbs that keep you hungry for more will be
obvious to even a blind child.   ..and yours is not blind...

Why is this option so effective..?   Consider the only reference point
is her manipulation contrasted with 'normal' families of peers, other
parents, teachers, older friends - and even HER 'frenemies', who will
tell the true story.   Children connect-the-dots quicker than adults do.

Just a suggestion.   Tell me a better one..?

I thought about a long, well reasoned post full of warnings of the OP's miserable future but that went out of the window in favour of....

Ditch her and run like hell. Ghost time.

Pay her what she needs to support your child, not to create a lifestyle for her. A child here can be supported for just 4 million and a month.

My friend has a 2 year old boy, his mother tried to get 1000usd a month for support, she is a gambler so he knows exactly why she needs so much.

I would not pay her a scent. Your never going to see the child again. They are adroit controllers when you get a bad one. Any professional will tell you must give them what they use to control you. In your case unfortunately and just like my case it is your child. It does not matter how you feel about the child, she is not going to help your feeling. Cut your losses. I write my young son every day via email that he does not even know the account yet. I am in hopes that before i die he will get to read them and know he has/had a dad the loved him. tried to provide a future for him, tried to support him, but there is only so much you can do here in VN. Your divorce must be done in SG. I doubt SG has a reciprocity agreement with VN, most countries do not. So it can not be enforced. Move on with you life and the wounds get better day by day, but i doubt wilkl ever go away.

Vagabondone wrote:

I would not pay her a scent. Your never going to see the child again. They are adroit controllers when you get a bad one. Any professional will tell you must give them what they use to control you. In your case unfortunately and just like my case it is your child. It does not matter how you feel about the child, she is not going to help your feeling. Cut your losses. I write my young son every day via email that he does not even know the account yet. I am in hopes that before i die he will get to read them and know he has/had a dad the loved him. tried to provide a future for him, tried to support him, but there is only so much you can do here in VN. Your divorce must be done in SG. I doubt SG has a reciprocity agreement with VN, most countries do not. So it can not be enforced. Move on with you life and the wounds get better day by day, but i doubt wilkl ever go away.

I tend to agree, she is in the box seat. Her family will be there to help her, heaven knows what she has told them.

She is using your child as a pawn, send her enough to raise the child and document everything you do and send for when your child comes seeking her father in years to come.

Bazza139 wrote:

I concur: you are being played for the money *snip*

The Truth will out in the end and her (yes, call it what it is) Evil plan to have you under her thumb as she feeds you the crumbs that keep you hungry for more will be
obvious to even a blind child.   ..and yours is not blind...

This.

Sorry to use you as an example, Bazza. You seem an okay sort for someone I've never met.

But you jump in every now and then when some of us are too hard (judgemental?) on guys who troll (I mean "post') here about their self-created problems with Vietnamese women, chiding us and offering your more sensitive take on the poor lad's problems.

But THIS (your post snip example) is what happens here in the forum too often:

Too many people simply take what the guy says at face value, and begin judging a woman they have never met, and who isn't able to share her side of the story.

I get it that a lot of guys here have been played by Vietnamese women.

I also get it that a lot of foreigners do their best to take maximum advantage of Vietnamese women while suffering minimal consequences.

Post what you want, but the inconsistency truly does sound like hypocrisy and bigotry...and perhaps even misogyny...to me.

Vagabondone wrote:

I would not pay her a scent. Your never going to see the child again. They are adroit controllers when you get a bad one. Any professional will tell you must give them what they use to control you. In your case unfortunately and just like my case it is your child. It does not matter how you feel about the child, she is not going to help your feeling. Cut your losses. I write my young son every day via email that he does not even know the account yet. I am in hopes that before i die he will get to read them and know he has/had a dad the loved him. tried to provide a future for him, tried to support him, but there is only so much you can do here in VN. Your divorce must be done in SG. I doubt SG has a reciprocity agreement with VN, most countries do not. So it can not be enforced. Move on with you life and the wounds get better day by day, but i doubt wilkl ever go away.

Bro, yes u r right. Sg does not have any agreement with vn. Our marriage os only in sg, we did not register our marriage in vn.

Perhaps we should do away with the forum if we expect to hear both sides of any story, be it a relationship, banking etc. Sure i guess we should assume that everyone is lying and never enter into a discussion no matter who brings it up. Even with the mans one-sided input he has been hit for his actions to. Maybe some have just to darn much time on their hands to parse every word that is said and make it he will still keep playing the bgamt an issue. Seems rather silly to me. If the guy is a troll as you say then he still gets the same answers I would think. At any rate I wish the man luck. I think he is up a creek without a paddle when it comes to having his child. And I suspect he will keep p[laying her game until she bleeds him dry and he will have nothing and still no child. She found a fool and she is going to play him I think. I played the same fools game so I understand. But eventuality I hope he lets go of everything she holds control over him with. One thing for sure you can not cut that baby in half. And she has the baby. Your lucky I guess the divorce has to come from SG. If by chance she would come back to divorce ( I doubt it) and bring the baby ( I doubt it) then he will have a bit of protection under the new law in SG.

Vagabondone wrote:

Perhaps we should do away with the forum if we expect to hear both sides of any story, be it a relationship, banking etc. Sure i guess we should assume that everyone is lying and never enter into a discussion no matter who brings it up. Even with the mans one-sided input he has been hit for his actions to. Maybe some have just to darn much time on their hands to parse every word that is said and make it he will still keep playing the bgamt an issue. Seems rather silly to me. If the guy is a troll as you say then he still gets the same answers I would think. At any rate I wish the man luck. I think he is up a creek without a paddle when it comes to having his child. And I suspect he will keep p[laying her game until she bleeds him dry and he will have nothing and still no child. She found a fool and she is going to play him I think. I played the same fools game so I understand. But eventuality I hope he lets go of everything she holds control over him with. One thing for sure you can not cut that baby in half. And she has the baby. Your lucky I guess the divorce has to come from SG. If by chance she would come back to divorce ( I doubt it) and bring the baby ( I doubt it) then he will have a bit of protection under the new law in SG.

To me, you (and others, including Bazza) make a lot of good points through your sharing.

However, we always seem to devolve into tearing the mystery woman apart.

If this were a healthy, therapeutic exchange of ideas about the subject, we would focus on the OP and what he can do to change things, since he's the only person he CAN change.

Instead, this is classic Anger UN-Management, where multiple people pile on, essentially saying: "She makes me mad too!"

That leaves everyone angrier than they were before the OP posted.

As for parsing every word, we only have words to deal with here, unless you count emojis.

And when we move from 'assessment' (picking apart the stated facts) to 'judgment' (proclaiming something or someone to be "evil") that's a very significant line to cross, especially by someone who holds himself out to be a professional dealing with human behavior.

Sorry to hear you got angry. These posts do not affect me in that way. But it seems we really need to make some new forum guidelines: If your going to speak about anyone that person must be a member and they include their comments in your thread. Then we can give both sides our professional opinions. Until then stay off the forum and do not make post. There, no more anger. Or just try to relax and enjoy life. Off to relax now. And I still hope the child gets to reunite with both parents. That is if he was ever separated from them. It very well coulkd be that the father is lying and he never had a child and is really  from Brazil. But we can still disagree I hope.

Vagabondone wrote:

Sorry to hear you got angry. These posts do not affect me in that way. But it seems we really need to make some new forum guidelines: If your going to speak about anyone that person must be a member and they include their comments in your thread. Then we can give both sides our professional opinions. Until then stay off the forum and do not make post. There, no more anger. Or just try to relax and enjoy life. Off to relax now. And I still hope the child gets to reunite with both parents. That is if he was ever separated from them. It very well coulkd be that the father is lying and he never had a child and is really  from Brazil. But we can still disagree I hope.

Yes, we can disagree.

We can also be misunderstood.

I am not saying I experienced anger.

I'm saying that in many cases, the posts about the woman are expressions of anger, and that the various posters feed off of the anger, which ends up magnifying it.

I think it's okay to comment on seeing it happen without me needing to go away and ignore it.

Cheers!

Kelvin77 wrote:

Hi bro,

When she was pregnant, she chose to come back sg to give birth. So once the baby is born in sg, my child is automatically a sporean. These few weeks have been a torture to me. When she need money or a hp, she will talk to me nicely, but if i did not send her money, she can change into another character and scolding vulgar words, asking me not to watsapp her or contact her again.
I gave in to her since she went back, talked to her nicely even when she scolded vulgar words on me, never shout at her, show more concern to her, but she is taking advantage of me being soft.
Its has been few weeks since she videocall me and let me see my baby. Few days ago, she sent me a video of my baby only.
Oh ya, the last time she requested for money to bring my child for blood test, i did sent her 500sgd but i don't think she used the money for blood test...that time she said the doctor felt that my child is too small size and requested to do blood test.
Wat a sad chinese new year for me this year.....

Between you and us you are the one who knows best about your relationship from day one until now. We only know what you reveal to us time to time, based on that we adjust our answers to fit well for your help.

It is nothing wrong to be soft to a woman, basically they are more vulnerable than us so we must give them a lead anyway.

Clear conscience is what you get by paying her reasonable amount (approx 175 USD) as child support each month. You also can ignore all this and save 175 bucks each month if you think it is a worth deal for you. But if guilty conscience hit you in 10 15 years we are not the people who suffer. That will be only you so it is your life you are the one who should make crucial decisions for you.

Forget everything for a while and enjoy Tet!

I agree that here the OP should opt for "middle ground". If you completely stop sending money, then you lose the "moral high ground" and become the bad guy. If you send too much, then I'm sorry but the old saying goes, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. At least if you keep on sending about USD$200 a month, then you can keep the moral high ground and know that you sent enough to feed++ your child. If she gives you no news at all for many months, then you sadly cut the cord.

I get the feeling OP is not without reproach at all, and that he partly deserves what's happening. But when a kid is involved, I believe both sides should try to work it out as much as possible and unless the mom got physically mistreated, I don't think there's any good excuse for her to hide the child from the father. But as always, as OceanBeach was saying, it's so easy to judge from the outside with only one version of the facts.

For me what caused rhe seperatiin of a man and a women belings to thwm and should be resolved in divorce court if that is to be the resolution. But never should if deprive a patent of access to their child unless there was perhaps child abuse involved.
Me I pay support if I get to see my child. So far I gave not. So I wrote each month trying to arange a time convienent to her to visit. Never have received a reply and do not know where he lives. So I put tge court ordered child support in a selerate savings account for my son. I have told the ex..... no visit, no money. So for me she has made the choice. Call it the high road or the low road. But if I gave no right with ny child why should I pay anything. But time will tell. I intend to document it all and petition the court for enforcement of the decree. Problem is there still is no mechanism in VN to enforce tge decree. Heck can not even serve her to appear in court. You would think in a country where every person has to register tgeir residence it would take a few keystrokes to find someone.

Yeah well, interesting and sad topic all together... And I won't say "Welcome to the club" as I was lucky enough to avoid this kind of situation over the years (at least in Asia...). And yes, it's better to keep in the boxers sometimes, even easier said than done (!).
My two cents:
Are you from S'Pore yourself? I would think that you got married with your VN wife in VietNam, maybe even in her home town? Just to say that's where she might be, especially for TET. You would know where...
Rather than not sending her money (like suggested above), I would at the contrary send her a regular reasonable amount of money (better weekly than monthly) AND keep a proper record of all these transfers, receipes and all, in a first place to 'cool' her down but also to prove your concerns towards your kid (in view of a later legal action). Explain that to her in a little email/WhatsApp, stick to these TT as it might also help her family to understand that you are not a bad guy as that, as she mostly certainly described you to them!...

As for getting back the 'package', I would rather focus on my kid....

Cheers and Chuc Mung Nam moi!

Vagabondone wrote:

For me what caused rhe seperatiin of a man and a women belings to thwm and should be resolved in divorce court if that is to be the resolution. But never should if deprive a patent of access to their child unless there was perhaps child abuse involved.
Me I pay support if I get to see my child. So far I gave not. So I wrote each month trying to arange a time convienent to her to visit. Never have received a reply and do not know where he lives. So I put tge court ordered child support in a selerate savings account for my son. I have told the ex..... no visit, no money. So for me she has made the choice. Call it the high road or the low road. But if I gave no right with ny child why should I pay anything. But time will tell. I intend to document it all and petition the court for enforcement of the decree. Problem is there still is no mechanism in VN to enforce tge decree. Heck can not even serve her to appear in court. You would think in a country where every person has to register tgeir residence it would take a few keystrokes to find someone.

It's tough what you are going through.

I feel for you, as that was how my son's mother and I related to each other during the first 13 years of his life.

It's a very honorable alternative ("I" think) to set the money aside for your child.

Hopefully your story will take a happy turn as your child grows older and perhaps the two of you are reunited.

Andy Passenger wrote:

Wxx3 wrote:

This is a troll.

And what's the purpose of his trolling?

Who knows, who cares. entertainment value to see how far he can string us all along. Here I am back here.
But then it's the first day of Tet, very hot, and nothing to do.

I must of missed it.
How did she get the child out of Singapore?

If the situation was in reverse, Vietnam to Singapore, anything is possible, but it's not.

https://www.lawdepot.com/blog/3-documen … -children/

What documents are needed when traveling with a child?

3 Documents Every Parent Needs When Traveling With Children
Passport. Minors under the age of 16 years old must possess a valid passport when crossing borders through air. ...
Child Travel Consent. A child travel consent form provides proof that a child has parental permission to travel alone, with one parent, or with a designated guardian. ...
Proof of Relationship.

The reference Wxx3 sites is from an American company and in America this is certainly true. One would think, and I did too, that this would be the case with every country. But I did some looking into Singapore's policies and they are just now passing policies to prevent divorced parents from traveling. No questions asked it seems if one parent is traveling and they are still married. I am a bit surprised that immigration in VN did not question it. I have seen them ask for letters of authorization from everyone that was traveling with a child alone or it did not look like they could be the parents e.g. grandparents. Even on domestic flights. This mans situation sure points to the need to have such laws. So sad that a parent would do that to a child. I do not care what I think of my child mother, he certainly deserves time with her and I would never say a bad word about her. Breaks your heart. The first year I cried every day, so I know what the man might be going through.

What is the definition of a troll....someone that comes on a forum? It seems everyone here thinks everyone is a troll.

For those who have not had relationships issues with a partner here in Vietnam it is quite a bit different then in most countries. I rather suspect most couples can recognize that there is at least something they do not like. But here there is little one can do to resolve it, short of coping. And that is what they feel you should do....just suck it up and cope. There are no marriage counselors or therapist. Even if you have access to one they all will tell you they can not have any affect on a Vietnamese client. I too thought this just can not be. But I hired two in the USA for my, now ex, and I. She would not even introduce herself. Even though she said she would. And she demanded a Vietnamese speaking professional. It took forever to find one. Seemed like a very good one also. I have had many lady friend who's husband routinely beat them. I tried the old American approach " if he hits you once it is his fault, if he hits you twice it is your fault". And every single one of them stayed with the man and said that is a Vietnamese women's duty.