Vietnamese Name order
Last activity 29 August 2022 by Aidan in HCMC
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Aidan - that's so helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the name sequence. I'll address them correctly from now on.Thanks againCasey- @lightinumbrella4
Curiously, when I bought a ticket on Vietnam airlines, they asked for middle, first, then last name, which is the order they used on the ticket itself. This caused trouble with crediting miles to Delta.I believe Vietjet asked for last, middle, first, but the tickets said Last Name, First Middle- @paulmsn
Pro rule -
I'd like to know how to address a Vietnamese colleague via email when they are using three names?
Curiously, when I bought a ticket on Vietnam airlines, they asked for middle, first, then last name, which is the order they used on the ticket itself. This caused trouble with crediting miles to Delta.I believe Vietjet asked for last, middle, first, but the tickets said Last Name, First Middle- @paulmsn
Pro rule -
If the name starts with Nguyen, then his/her first name is the last one.If Nguyen is on the right side, then they already switched it western style.That covers most cases.I'd like to know how to address a Vietnamese colleague via email when they are using three names?Name? Vietnamese don't use first names, just pronouns.eg. em if around your age or younger, else anh/chi ("gee") but that is a whole other expat com mega-thread.- @gobot
Pro rule -
If the name starts with Nguyen, then his/her first name is the last one.If Nguyen is on the right side, then they already switched it western style.That covers most cases.I'd like to know how to address a Vietnamese colleague via email when they are using three names?Name? Vietnamese don't use first names, just pronouns.eg. em if around your age or younger, else anh/chi ("gee") but that is a whole other expat com mega-thread.- @gobot
@lightinumbrella41.Family name first,2. then gender identifier (Thi=female, Van=Male), though this is not obligatory,3. then a self selected name, though again not always present nor obligatory,4. then given name.So, as an example Huong Thi Pham Phuong, where#1 is Huong, family name#2 is Thi (female), gender identifier similar to Mr., Ms., Mrs.#3 is Pham, a self selected name (similar to our having a non-obligatory middle name)#4 is Phuong, given name at birthNote* If you asked this (fictitious) person what her "last name" is, she could rightly say Phuong.Better to ask what their family name is, which would be Huong- @Aidan in HCMC
Pro rule -
If the name starts with Nguyen, then his/her first name is the last one.If Nguyen is on the right side, then they already switched it western style.That covers most cases.I'd like to know how to address a Vietnamese colleague via email when they are using three names?Name? Vietnamese don't use first names, just pronouns.eg. em if around your age or younger, else anh/chi ("gee") but that is a whole other expat com mega-thread.- @gobotGood tip, Gobot. Thank you for that.One exception, though. I have seen people's name being Nguyễn Nguyên.When written in English, without tones, it is spelled Nguyen Nguyen, no?LOL, I guess in that case it wouldn't matter which name comes first.
- @Aidan in HCMC
Pro rule -
If the name starts with Nguyen, then his/her first name is the last one.If Nguyen is on the right side, then they already switched it western style.That covers most cases.I'd like to know how to address a Vietnamese colleague via email when they are using three names?Name? Vietnamese don't use first names, just pronouns.eg. em if around your age or younger, else anh/chi ("gee") but that is a whole other expat com mega-thread.- @gobotGood tip, Gobot. Thank you for that.One exception, though. I have seen people's name being Nguyễn Nguyên.When written in English, without tones, it is spelled Nguyen Nguyen, no?LOL, I guess in that case it wouldn't matter which name comes first.
- @Aidan in HCMC
@lightinumbrella41.Family name first,2. then gender identifier (Thi=female, Van=Male), though this is not obligatory,3. then a self selected name, though again not always present nor obligatory,4. then given name.So, as an example Huong Thi Pham Phuong, where#1 is Huong, family name#2 is Thi (female), gender identifier similar to Mr., Ms., Mrs.#3 is Pham, a self selected name (similar to our having a non-obligatory middle name)#4 is Phuong, given name at birthNote* If you asked this (fictitious) person what her "last name" is, she could rightly say Phuong.Better to ask what their family name is, which would be Huong- @Aidan in HCMCi have to advise that this is somewhat incorrect.(and btw the confusion created by out-of-date and misleading terms Last Name and First Name is one of my pet hates. It amazes me that almost all Internet sites, even those whom you would expect to be much more culturally sensitive and practical, like Amnesty International, STILL persist in using those terms when it should be glaringly obvious that literally over half (64% actually) of the world's population put their FAMILY Name FIRST. and that suggests my easy and practical solution for the whole problem - always use the terms Family Name and Given Name. It works everywhere in every situation.)Now.#1 is correct#2 is correct#3 is NOT correct. 1. It is NOT self-selected. 2. it is, as you say, similar to Western 'Middle Name', but it is NOT equivalent. Formally it is part of Given Name, but is rarely used, except officially; but what really annoyed my wife is that, apparently, 'Pham' is a FAMILY name: it is never used in this way/position, and 'Huong' is not a Family Name either, but a Give3n Name (so it seems as far as i tell that the example given has already been turned topsy-turvy.#4 is correct with the proviso above that #3 is formally part of Given NameAdditionally.- #1 Family Name always derives for Father's Family Name- but it is an increasing practice to add Mother's Family Name to children's Family Name, eg Le+Huyhn = Le Huyhn Thi .... always 2nd of course :-)- previously it was always the custom to include the gender honorific (for the obvious reason when many names can be both female or male), Thi or Van respectively; however, it is now becoming more common to omit. I hear the main reason is that people say that it is not 'pretty'.- finally, in addition, many people have a 'family name', not to be confused with Family Name, which is is the exact equivalent of our Nickname, that is used in exactly the same way, so we could say a 'familiar' name as being the correct term, and its etymology to 'family' more obvious.Note: for ease of typing, i have omitted all diacritics (which don't appear to work here anyway w/o 'cutting and pasting')- @wits3
Edit: all my Vietnamese family got very annoyed with this name example because it basically 'screwed up' already. #1 is not a Family Name and #3 is not a Given Name.@lightinumbrella41.Family name first,2. then gender identifier (Thi=female, Van=Male), though this is not obligatory,3. then a self selected name, though again not always present nor obligatory,4. then given name.So, as an example Huong Thi Pham Phuong, where
- @wits3
Looks like a long lost troll has returned.
Those of us who know what Im talking about will understand.
Looks like a long lost troll has returned.
Those of us who know what Im talking about will understand.
-@colinoscapee
just shows how low the forum has got these days that a subject like this has been dragged out to this extent.
Looks like a long lost troll has returned.
Those of us who know what Im talking about will understand.
-@colinoscapee
just shows how low the forum has got these days that a subject like this has been dragged out to this extent.
-@goodolboy
Agreed. Started to resemble a blog, right about here.
And "Pham" is in fact used as either a given, or as a "middle" name.
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