Vietnam relationships / Children / Marriage

Popcorn?

Not sure it's yours. Trust is part of marriage - big part
Did you tell her about the cash?

Long story (but a good read!)

..proving you understand both the ideal...    ..and the reality..(?)

Understanding the "too good to be true" is a welcome and rational approach
- and you know the rest of the onions, so you also know the best laid plans
(pun intended) can go astray : Murphy's law is no myth here...

   You might be also aware of the 'long game' played by women the world over
and done here with deviosity few dare to believe.   But you already know how
risky this business is AND you have a biological investment, so you won the race

"I have a lot to consider.   I want to do the right thing, but also protect what I have"

So you have mental acuity and balance.   Yes, doubt is the best protection, esp.
as you ARE a rich man here  (beyond a Viet girl's wildest dreams)

Relax.   You already know the only problems in life are the ones we don't expect
and I can reassure you if most men had your rationale, the (too many) tales of
dirt & destruction we see so much of here would vanish overnight

Still, biology rules!   Men want sex; Women want security.   Naturally, for the
primal function of men is to provide protection while the woman is pregnant
and nurturing (your) genetic investment.   It's all good

And I think you realise it can never be a bed of roses in any culture.  You have
the advantage of money; No.1 in all Asian countries, and have your bases
covered.   What are the chances..?

Best rational review I have read here.   Others will have their own perspectives
but you already know it is choices, not chances that decide your destiny

Go for it       

Can't use any humour here...   ..he's too rational...     

Popcorn sales are suspended...     

No offensive comment but my suggestion to others who want to marry a Vietnamese girl is that you should find a girl with 'good family' background! If she cannot love her family regardless of poor or rich, one day you will become a stepping stone!

There are so many undeserved girls jumped from family to carry your child for personal gains! Children born in those wedlock are the pitiful victims! If it happened already to one of you, just love that kids and kick that waste out from your life to get peace!
Sorry Op, am not answering to your thread really!

She knows that I run a business and that I have some nice things, yes.  Not exact net worth.

This is a fantastic response.  Thank you for taking the time to do that. 👍

braymor wrote:

Hello all...

If I were "the child" and I one day read this post, I would hate the author.

I think you are a troll.

Perhaps you are multiple persons, such as a University study group doing a project on, say, Human Behavior?

I really do hope you are a troll, because it would be sad to truly believe you.

Please make your $1,200,000.00 check out to "The Child".

braymor wrote:

She knows that I run a business and that I have some nice things, yes.  Not exact net worth.

I am not blaming the majority but there are girls from provinces to dig gold in HCMC with 'Green card' dream or at least ATM
They will go any level to make us happy and when you happy, most of them thinks that you will fall for it and she can win
Yeah, all expatriates are not 'intelligent' to observe her long time unlike me
Many $5 girls are very rich now more than good salaried expatriates!
Citizens born and living in HCMC are not bad but 'outsiders' !
When they jump from own house and poor parents, we can understand their greedy mind, life goal...
These people never care their parents or siblings and will make problem once they got into you legally!
I don't know about your GF, but in my observation from 10 years...

If it's your child, the responsible thing to do is to marry, not just for the woman's sake, but for your child's. The divorce rate is over 50%, so the odds are already bad enough, but I'm sure having a "paltry" $1.2 million may smooth things over a bit. By Vietnamese standards, that's rich, and where I come from, at 39 years old that's rich for anyone I know. But I don't drive lambos and porsches in HCMC, so what do I know.

I was chatting with a Korean acquaintance the other day, she comes from a rich background. Her husband is always burned out from work, and their relationship suffers as a result. I encourage you to make sure there's enough 'family time' invested in the relationship, otherwise it doesn't matter how rich you are, it's gonna be bad. Perhaps attending a local church where you live would give you some welcoming community that would help add to the support you need as a starting family.

On a related note: what are the chances she is reading this thread? Vietnamese are increasingly becoming techno-savvy, so you might find your browser history gets snooped on occasionally. Nothing to worry about as long as you're not worried about this information being divulged.

You could tell her that you are quitting your job and moving to Vietnam to be with her and the baby because it's the right thing to do-to live with and care for your wife and baby.  You can say you will get a job as a teacher and while you won't have a lot of money you will do the best you can to take care of her but the three of you may have to live with her parents until you can save enough money to get a house.  Then sit back and see what she says.  You might get a feeling for what she truly thinks.

braymor wrote:

...unlikely she would want to go back to Vietnam.

Why do Americans always think all Asians are interrested on a green card?

I know people who have returned to Vietnam after a short time.

One of them moved to his Vietnamese-American wife in the USA.
After a short time he returned to Vietnam and told his wife that he would not return to the USA.

Meanwhile he married someone in my wife's family here in Vietnam.

Andy Passenger wrote:

braymor wrote:

...unlikely she would want to go back to Vietnam.

Why do Americans always think all Asians are interrested on a green card?

I know people who have returned to Vietnam after a short time.

One of them moved to his Vietnamese-American wife in the USA.
After a short time he returned to Vietnam and told his wife that he would not return to the USA.

Meanwhile he married someone in my wife's family here in Vietnam.

Many of them are,but not all.

Don't forget that many Viet Kieu big note themselves when visiting here, many locals see their wealth and want to get a crack at it.

Andy Passenger wrote:

Why do Americans always think all Asians are interrested on a green card?

I know people who have returned to Vietnam after a short time.

In years past, a move to the US was the dream of many, many VIetnamese.  For more than a decade now, reality has shown its ugly face and people have slowly woken up from the dream. 

Before the last decade, the locals laughed when Overseas Vietnamese talked about their struggle to make ends meet.  Car payments, car insurance, medical insurance, FICA tax, state tax, city tax, property tax, property insurance, student loan, credit card debts, etc. didn't mean a thing to the locals back then.  Their reason:  how could life be difficult in the US when, with the average salary of $1500, an Overseas Vietnamese could buy 25 "lượng vàng" (1 lượng = 37.5 gr of gold) each month in Vietnam? 

Then the new Vietnamese immigrants arrived in the US and realized that on the land of excess, every minute of their 40 hour workweek had to be accounted for (no boss would allow them to take off for half an hour to pick up their children from school or half a day to attend a funeral), that two-income was required to support two cars, big screen TV, new phones, a tablet for everyone, expensive cable contract, and the many sales at the mall. 

As employment with language obstacle meant no job advance and no respect, most of the new immigrants ended up working for Vietnamese business where the mandatory minimum wage was not enforced, a-break-after-every-2-hour-work was not enforced, overtime pay was not enforced, and medical insurance was not included in the salary. 

And worst of all, the big salary only looked big from afar, because $1500 take home had no leftover to play with, its purchase power was not much higher than an 8M salary in Vietnam. 

That's when the locals all came to the obvious conclusion: it's better to live here if some support arrives regularly from the States.  The green card is no longer an enticing carrot because the mules would rather enjoy the shade than follow the illusion of a good meal.

Andy Passenger wrote:

braymor wrote:

...unlikely she would want to go back to Vietnam.

Why do Americans always think all Asians are interrested on a green card?

I know people who have returned to Vietnam after a short time.

One of them moved to his Vietnamese-American wife in the USA.
After a short time he returned to Vietnam and told his wife that he would not return to the USA.

Meanwhile he married someone in my wife's family here in Vietnam.

I know many western men who are reasonably happy with their marriages to Asian women, not just Vietnamese. Often, they return to their home country for the sake of their children's education, although sometimes they decide to stay in Asia.

It sounds like you two got on well, so if paternity is confirmed, chances are you'll have a normal marital situation.

Ciambella wrote:

Andy Passenger wrote:

braymor wrote:

...unlikely she would want to go back to Vietnam.

Why do Americans always think all Asians are interrested on a green card?

I know people who have returned to Vietnam after a short time.

One of them moved to his Vietnamese-American wife in the USA.
After a short time he returned to Vietnam and told his wife that he would not return to the USA.

Meanwhile he married someone in my wife's family here in Vietnam.

What's the purple bulb next to your name all about?

colinoscapee wrote:

What's the purple bulb next to your name all about?

I was asked by the Mods to be part of Expat team as a volunteer "Advisor" (purple bulb) on the Vietnam forum.  Since sharing my knowledge is the exact same thing I've been doing, I said yes.  After a while, if I'm good, they'll give me the "Expert" (blue bulb) title, which comes with a Merlin's wand and The Cloak of Invisibility.   

Ciambella wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

What's the purple bulb next to your name all about?

I was asked by the Mods to be part of Expat team as a volunteer "Advisor" (purple bulb) on the Vietnam forum.  Since sharing my knowledge is the exact same thing I've been doing, I said yes.  After a while, if I'm good, they'll give me the "Expert" (blue bulb) title, which comes with a Merlin's wand and The Cloak of Invisibility.   

and other perks .. BUTTONS!

More seriously, it's lovely to see more people taking an active role in the forum with the intention of helping others.

colinoscapee wrote:

Don't forget that many Viet Kieu big note themselves when visiting here, many locals see their wealth and want to get a crack at it.

20 years ago, maybe. Nowadays, it's tinder for the younger crowd and good old mistress(es) for the luddites.

As for marriage and green cards; the only Viet Kieu that I've seen wanting to get married in Vietnam are the:
1.    older (40+) first gens who haven't had any luck overseas
2.    younger and newly sworn in first gens wanting to marry their long-time fiancé(e)s

Assuming the suitor isn't a chump; no random local is going to get a crack at a green card without going through a proper, family approved introduction and a proposal ceremony. Likewise, a decent local family would also expect nothing less – green card or not.

.

Ciambella wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

What's the purple bulb next to your name all about?

I was asked by the Mods to be part of Expat team as a volunteer "Advisor" (purple bulb) on the Vietnam forum.  Since sharing my knowledge is the exact same thing I've been doing, I said yes.  After a while, if I'm good, they'll give me the "Expert" (blue bulb) title, which comes with a Merlin's wand and The Cloak of Invisibility.   

.

Not before time. too...       

    We all saw the inevitability, and the purple part suits your spiritual side           

       May your Wonder Woman wand work wonders for us as well       

             Fred's gift?   ..green-as-grass suits his wooly side too...       
.

OFF TOPIC

Just today my fiance stated that she really, really didn't want to move to the US.  Visit is OK but doesn't want to move there.  I asked if she would not move even if it is likely a detriment to her daughter's education ( we originally planned going in two years for the last three years of her high school) and now she is thinking that, while nice, isn't enough of a reason to move there.  I'm OK with either option.

.

SteinNebraska wrote:

OFF TOPIC

Just today my fiance stated that she really, really didn't want to move to the US.  Visit is OK but doesn't want to move there.  I asked if she would not move even if it is likely a detriment to her daughter's education ( we originally planned going in two years for the last three years of her high school) and now she is thinking that, while nice, isn't enough of a reason to move there.  I'm OK with either option.

. 
Not that far off topic, and the internet offers many options re: education

          ..visiting the US being an education in itself...       
.

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

braymor wrote:

Hello all...

If I were "the child" and I one day read this post, I would hate the author.

I think you are a troll.

Perhaps you are multiple persons, such as a University study group doing a project on, say, Human Behavior?

I really do hope you are a troll, because it would be sad to truly believe you.

Please make your $1,200,000.00 check out to "The Child".

That is fair enough, however, I must point out that most people in my position would simply turn their back on the situation rather than navigate it as one should in the interest of everybody.

I am returning to VN in March to be with her for 2 weeks and I will be meeting her family.  She lives with her parents, and she cares for them, and does not live in HCMC.  I am sure her family is more shocked and possibly concerned than anything I am experiencing.  They are possibly loosing their daughter to the US and a man they have never met (yet).   So, I am trying to be sure that all needs are considered and met, but doing it in a way that doesn't jeopardize my future if things fall into the statistical norm of over 50% of marriages not working out.  Perhaps it's more of a legal question than anything, but feedback still appreciated. 
For what it's worth, I broke the news to some members of my family and they are happy and open to the idea.

SteinNebraska wrote:

You could tell her that you are quitting your job and moving to Vietnam to be with her and the baby because it's the right thing to do-to live with and care for your wife and baby.  You can say you will get a job as a teacher and while you won't have a lot of money you will do the best you can to take care of her but the three of you may have to live with her parents until you can save enough money to get a house.  Then sit back and see what she says.  You might get a feeling for what she truly thinks.

I think I will do this - thank you.  I am actually wondering if selling everything and moving to VN isn't the best move anyway all things considered.  A nice peaceful life there doesn't sound bad at all honestly!

braymor wrote:

OceanBeach92107 wrote:

braymor wrote:

Hello all...

If I were "the child" and I one day read this post, I would hate the author.

I think you are a troll.

Perhaps you are multiple persons, such as a University study group doing a project on, say, Human Behavior?

I really do hope you are a troll, because it would be sad to truly believe you.

Please make your $1,200,000.00 check out to "The Child".

That is fair enough, however, I must point out that most people in my position would simply turn their back on the situation rather than navigate it as one should in the interest of everybody.

Your sense of nobility is noted.

The problem (as I see it) is your dealing with "the situation" differently than you would if the mother of your child were a fellow citizen and resident of the USA.

Or perhaps you would be just as calculating in that scenario?

But, your OP reads to me as if you are more wary of your Vietnamese lady than you might be if she were...what? Caucasian? A U.S. Citizen?

I (your child again) would likely ask you why you trusted my mother enough to f*ck her, but then felt the need to protect yourself against her 'possible' bad intentions.

If you say you would be equally wary if she were a caucasian U.S. citizen, then I wonder why you are even posting here?

Aren't women equally trustworthy the world over? I'm asking a leading question, wondering what YOU think, as if you showed signs of thinking in creating this 'situation' for the unborn child and...

braymor wrote:

I am returning to VN in March to be with her for 2 weeks and I will be meeting her family.  She lives with her parents, and she cares for them, and does not live in HCMC.  I am sure her family is more shocked and possibly concerned than anything I am experiencing.  They are possibly loosing their daughter to the US and a man they have never met (yet).

The parents.

Did you have the slightest clue as to the possible ramifications of your actions when you decided to freely distribute your genetic material here in Việt Nam?

You have deprived her parents of the customary right to approve of you. Impossible to put that genie back in the bottle.

Of course, you could always tell them that she wasn't a virgin anymore, that she seduced you and...

braymor wrote:

So, I am trying to be sure that all needs are considered and met, but doing it in a way that doesn't jeopardize my future if things fall into the statistical norm of over 50% of marriages not working out.

...you are suspicious that they are behind her scheme to trap you into supporting them.

Oh, and tell us, Mr. Statistician, what's the failure rate for condoms?

braymor wrote:

Perhaps it's more of a legal question than anything, but feedback still appreciated.

(voice of The Unborn Child again:) "Gee Dad! I'm so glad you sought legal advice about me...or, about your bank account...whatever".

braymor wrote:

For what it's worth, I broke the news to some members of my family and they are happy and open to the idea.

OMG!!! How SPECIAL!!! The American parents are SO open minded. Maybe they will host a shower???

*** Oh, and tell us, Mr. Statistician, what's the failure rate for condoms? ***

With regard to pregnancy.....

They know what causes that now.

Jim-Minh wrote:

*** Oh, and tell us, Mr. Statistician, what's the failure rate for condoms? ***

With regard to pregnancy.....

They know what causes that now.

I've certainly heard the story of the "little prick".

You know.

The prick of the pin in the condom, rendering it useless?

Sorry OB, I wasn't contradicting you....

Jim-Minh wrote:

Sorry OB, I wasn't contradicting you....

NP, friend. I didn't think that. Just free lancing...

I really tried to stay away from this thread, but since it has not been closed (i think it should be closed because in my opinion, it is hypothetical and looks more like a local is doing research to see how a fact pattern may play out with foreigners).  First, any person who actually gets into a situation like the OP, in my opinion, would not post as they did and i am not going to explain as that is exactly what he/she wants.

Second, assuming true, the OP is an idiot because being so concerned about their finances would lead to other behaviors/actions that would have not put them in this situation in the first place. 

Third, many States, if not all, protect your pre-marital assets so depending on where you live, you have no worries about your current situation, she has -0- rights to any of it.  But a pre-nup would help, can't hurt.  I find it funny how many VN do not understand marriage laws in the USA and incorrectly assume that if they marry a westerner, they get half of everything, wrong (please take note OP for your research).

I'm not sure which is worse, a foreigner who's loaded treating Vietnamese less than human by irresponsibly sleeping around and lying to her about his intentions, or a person pretending to be one in order to do some covert research.

Assuming the money stays in America (or whatever foreign country), no local Vietnamese would be entitled to it anyways. And why would you disclose that information unless you were willing to risk parting with it? Sounds kinda unbelievable to me.

I assure you that I am completely real.
A couple of points: I live in Seattle where the median home price is over $1 million, so it's truly not that much money in some parts of the world.  We have Amazon, Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks,  etc all HQ here and legions of people earn 6 figures.  But it also costs a tremendous amount to live here.  Feel free to move here and take a shot if that appeals to you, although this not at all important to this discussion, I should not have mentioned that in my original post.

There is a fair point to be made about me being an idiot for getting into this situation, but please allow me to defend myself against that claim. I didn't include the following information on my original post because it was already long enough:
I have 1 bother who was never able to have kids, and my second brother tried for a few years before using IVF treatment successfully.  I had my sperm checked a few years ago because I assumed I may have the same condition and wanted to know.  The result was that my count was very low as well.  Considering I had never caused anybody to become pregnant in the 20 years since high school and several relationships, I did not expect to get this news.

I did end up getting tested about a month ago and was told my count was low, but that there was still some chance it could happen.
Well, it happened.  And it was only 2 times that we were intimate, but it happened to be while she was most fertile.  It takes two to tango, but if I'm being honest, I would say she initiated the first encounter.  In any case, a DNA test is imminent and will reveal if somehow it's not mine.
Am I an idiot? Maybe.  But I am in a particular situation as a result and trying to do the best thing.  Do I think my needs outweigh hers? Absolutely not.

.

braymor wrote:

I assure you I am completely real

I did end up getting tested about a month ago and was told my count was low, but that there was still some chance it could happen.
Well, it happened.  And it was only 2 times that we were intimate, but it happened to be while she was most fertile.  It takes two to tango, but if I'm being honest, I would say she initiated the first encounter.  In any case, a DNA test is imminent and will reveal if somehow it's not mine.
Am I an idiot? Maybe.  But I am in a particular situation as a result and trying to do the best thing.  Do I think my needs outweigh hers? Absolutely not.

.

I would be the first to admit to Socrates' dictum: knowing only I do not,
but unless the OP has a Phd in linguistics, ethics & human behaviours, I'll
vote for his validity.    He does sound OTT, but on the morally correct side

                 ..and moral rectitude is jealousy with a halo...        

     Yeah, I'd like his money too, but as he pointed out, living in a black hole
well known as a money pit designed to make it vanish..?    I'll stay here...

    He certainly sounds too good to be true, but if he is the straight arrow
he says he is, I'd prefer to hear his thoughts over the too many twerps I'm
forced to listen to here.   And I hate preaching to the choir...

    Although I also admit objectivity is an alien concept here     

         ..relaxed retards may now return to the popcorn....     
.

Not being a smartarse but since when are you “forced to listen” on this site Bazza? If you don't like what you read then you do have an off button on your computer.

.
I doubt if Popeye liked popcorn either..?

A smartarse..?   I am what I yam...     
.

braymor wrote:

I assure you that I am completely real.
...

There is a fair point to be made about me being an idiot for getting into this situation, but please allow me to defend myself against that claim. I didn't include the following information on my original post because it was already long enough:...

I did end up getting tested about a month ago and was told my count was low, but that there was still some chance it could happen.
Well, it happened.  And it was only 2 times that we were intimate, but it happened to be while she was most fertile.  It takes two to tango, but if I'm being honest, I would say she initiated the first encounter.  In any case, a DNA test is imminent and will reveal if somehow it's not mine.
Am I an idiot? Maybe.  But I am in a particular situation as a result and trying to do the best thing.  Do I think my needs outweigh hers? Absolutely not.

Most comments here are saying the same thing, one way or another.
I think what OceanBeaches is trying to get across (and if not, I'll say it) is that at this point YOU ARE ALL IN.
The bet is made, equivocation will not change anything, therefore, don't.

On a related note, I don't have kids and never wanted them. Now, with my Viet gf, if I was younger, I'd have kids, just because I think she is as good a mother as wife.

Back to you. This was meant to happen. You have two months to learn as much about Vietnamese culture as you can.
I would expect that you need to approach the parents in a contrite manner. You screwed up, north their daughter, but you are very happy and it was meant to be.

I expect t be in Seattle in June and hopefully my gf and her son will join me in July. We should meet.
Good luck.
Richard

vndreamer wrote:

I really tried to stay away from this thread, but since it has not been closed (i think it should be closed because in my opinion, it is hypothetical and looks more like a local is doing research to see how a fact pattern may play out with foreigners).  First, any person who actually gets into a situation like the OP, in my opinion, would not post as they did and i am not going to explain as that is exactly what he/she wants.

Second, assuming true, the OP is an idiot because being so concerned about their finances would lead to other behaviors/actions that would have not put them in this situation in the first place. 

Third, many States, if not all, protect your pre-marital assets so depending on where you live, you have no worries about your current situation, she has -0- rights to any of it.  But a pre-nup would help, can't hurt.  I find it funny how many VN do not understand marriage laws in the USA and incorrectly assume that if they marry a westerner, they get half of everything, wrong (please take note OP for your research).

"The Child" DOES have rights to a lot of his future income, and the mother will be eligible to apply for and collect child support on behalf of the child.

I created a new thread with links to FAQs on the website of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 67#4463171