Relocation with EU Blue Card of another EU Member State

Hello everyone,

Has anyone here relocated to Germany and applied for an EU Blue Card after having spent more than 18 months on a Blue Card of another country? Could you please share your experience on nuances of this process?

Specifically, I am aware that having an EU Blue Card from another country for longer than 18 years gives you several advantages when relocating to Germany and applying for the German Blue Card:
1) You don't need to apply for a national visa beforehand in order to enter Germany and submit your German Blue Card application.
2) You can receive the settlement permit faster (21-33 months).
3) The periods spent on Blue Cards of other member states are credited towards the 5 years you need to get EU Long Term Permit.

All of this sounds brilliant, however, if I use advantage (1) and go to Germany without a visa, then I will have to stay unemployed while I wait for the decision on the German Blue Card.
Both my employer and I are interested in me starting as soon as possible and working while we're waiting for the decision.
What are our options here?

My employer suggested that I apply to the national visa D after all, additionally to the EU Blue Card process. The national visa is issued very fast and provides me a chance to work.
However, what I am not certain about is the following:
1 - Am I even allowed to apply to the EU Blue Card based on another EU Blue Card while having a national visa D active in parallel with them?
2 - Will this approach (working on national visa between two Blue Cards) do any harm to advantage (3) that I am so eager to use?



Since my previous post was closed because of an undesired discussion, I want to add this.

Background for those who does not know how Blue Card works: it is only valid in the country that issued it. When relocating to another country, you have to get a new one. When resources like BAMF tell you that Blue Card is organized at EU level, it does NOT mean that you can move freely. It only means that the directive works the same way in each individual EU country that accepted the directive. These sources are correct, but apparently the wording may be confusing for some.

The only things that tie Blue Cards of different countries together are mentioned in my post - and that is the essence I wanted to discuss.

If you come and start talking about something that you read once in an article about, or heard about and in general have no other knowledge about it, it does not help and only distracts from the point.
It is not informative, it is not helpful, it is just confusing.
If you want to know more, I am happy to provide materials and answers (see examples below). But really, I would prefer to get some qualified help in this post, not lead a discussion about related subjects.

Directive (especially article 18): http://csdle.lex.unict.it/Archive/LW/EU … _enpdf.pdf
German Residency Act:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl … enthg.html




Thank you in advance
Anton

Yes, the German law is based on the EU directive. And yes, a new Blue Card will be issued by Germany if you are coming with a Blue Card from another EU country. But this is a formality. To quote the BAMF website – and this is a direct quote, NOT speculation or an interpretation: “The EU Blue Card applies for persons from non-EU countries as well as for people who are staying with another residence permit in Germany or already have received an EU Blue Card in another EU Member State. “

http://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlagen/E … cationFile

Thank you, I am aware that this is a formality - and my post is how to deal with the formality, not whether it exists.

I still have to meet all the criteria for obtaining the Blue Card in the new country. The only thing different when applying with the existent card of a other country is that I don't need to get a visa first (advantage 1 in my post).

I finally found a person who had experience like mine.
Going to leave this here in case someone needs it:

1. He is the owner of the Polish Blue Card for over 18 months.
2. He did not get any national visa to apply for the German one. Instead, he entered Germany with the Polish Blue Card and had a regular appointment.
3. He had to rent an apartment before the appointment to get registered in Germany.
4. There is a huge gap in the law regarding health insurance. By law, you have to submit proof that you are insured. On the other hand you are not insured unless you start work (or buy a super expensive private insurance). And you cannot start work until you get the permit you are applying for. What he did is negotiated with the health insurance company the date of his potential start date and they gave him the paper that he is already insured on the date of application (although this was not true).
5. During the appointment the officer accepted Polish BlueCard as foundation for application to the German one, and after some misunderstandings and clarifications of the law. right there a sticker with work permit for 3 months was stamped into his passport. Based on the Blue Card Directive, it is something that the officer may do, but there is no guarantee in the Residence Act that it will be done. It is up to the officer's best knowledge.


Overall impression he had: the officers and supporting immigration agencies are not familiar with the case of changing country on BlueCard as it does not happen often, so you need to know all the law numbers, paragraphs and articles to guide them to correct decisions.

Since I got a question into personal messages about how the situation played out with me, will leave my comment here as well, so people will have it useful in the future.

Blue Cards in each country are different - even conditions to receive them are different. A Blue Card from one country does not give you the right to work in another one (even after 18 months). However, after 18 months of having a card from country A, you may be eligible to go through the simplified process of getting a card in country B if your case matches the Blue Card requirements of country B.

In my case, the simplified process of moving to Germany after spending 18 months on a Polish Blue Card looked like this:
1) I collected all necessary documents to apply for the German Blue Card
2) My future employer emailed them to Business Immigration Services (BIS) (https://www.berlin.de/labo/willkommen-i … 098.en.php) together with information about my Polish Blue Card.
3) The immigration services pre-approved my German Blue Card. I was still working in Poland all this time and did not have to quit or apply for any visas. The process took somewhere around 1 month.
4) On the 1st day of work in Germany, I had an appointment at Ausländerbehörde where they put a stamp into my passport that allowed me to work for 3 months while my card is in production.
5) In 4 weeks, my card with permission to work for 4 years was ready to be picked up.

The card is not attached to the employer. It allows me to work 4 years on the specific position name anywhere in Germany and also be a freelancer for 2 years.

Hi Anton, many thanks for your clarification on the process. Could you please clarify whether the "trick" with insurance company issuing the letter worked well? Thanks!

Yes, it was rather easy for me.
I sent an application to insurance company TK to enter their statutory insurance program. The application form actually had a field asking from which date I am employed, so I put the date in the future.
Afterwards, they confirmed that my application is successfully submitted and I asked them for the letter.
They sent me a letter stating that I will be insured with them from a date in the future.

Hi,
These are very valuable lessons. I became aware that process is tricky everywhere. The gap about the insurance you and your friend faced with are typical, since there is a contradiction in the statement. I have the Blue Card in Slovenia, and my company did everything. I am talking now about the initial process, not changing countries. However even they roamed for a while, the insurance paper was not clear to anybody. Finally, they made me buy private insurance for one month while waiting for the Card, even though I wasn't officially there in Slovenia. :) But that was the administrative compromise between desk stuff and my HR, nobody knows exactly if it was really necessary.

Now, another experience my coworker had, who applied for the family reunification, trying to get staying permit for his wife. I won't go into the details, just some major points: the fact was he was getting contradictory information and request for documents from different people in the morning and in the afternoon at the same institution. He had to fight, to argue, to deal with people...  One day they were asking him to bring insurance for his wife for three months, next day it wasn't necessary. Next day in the local municipality office he had to provide the proof his wife was quitting her job in their country of origin. Then he complained and raised his voice, asking how can she quit  without getting her permit before. He went to the other institution, migration office I think, they completely agreed with him, called the municipality office and then they had a fight between them. And the life goes on...

The point is, it is a gray area everywhere, and one has to be patient to finish the task.

I also have additional question. What is happening after 5 years, once a person gets unlimited residence permit in any EU country. Can he or she change the location within the EU freely? Can he or she apply for the contract jobs?

banconi wrote:

I also have additional question. What is happening after 5 years, once a person gets unlimited residence permit in any EU country. Can he or she change the location within the EU freely? Can he or she apply for the contract jobs?

I am posting a link to the German immigration site page that covers what is called a Daueraufenhalt-EU permit which is similar to  Niederlassungserlaubnis. A document linked from this page (also included below in the original German) makes it sound like one is allowed to work in other EU countries but the page itself claims one can go 90 out 0f 180 days and says one still needs to apply to stay indefinitely in the new country. So the information sounds a bit contradictory or is maybe leaving out some details.


http://www.bamf.de/DE/Migration/Arbeite … -node.html

www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Glossareintraege … renderHelp[CatalogHelp]&nn=3752680

Daueraufenthalt

Es handelt sich dabei um einen unbefristeten Aufenthaltstitel, den Ausländer aus Drittstaaten nach fünfjährigem rechtmäßigem Aufenthalt in einem Mitgliedstaat der Europäischen Union erhalten. Dieser Titel berücksichtigt das Recht auf Weiterwanderung in einen anderen Mitgliedstaat und bietet, wie die Niederlassungserlaubnis, eine weitgehende Gleichstellung von Drittstaatsangehörigen mit eigenen Staatsangehörigen z. B. beim Arbeitsmarktzugang und bei sozialen Leistungen.

1.  I want to take employment in Poland (I have a valid Offer from Polish Company)
2. I currently hold a valid Blue Card from another member state.

Can I start working in Poland after applying for a Blue Card in Poland?
Has anyone relocated to Poland on the basis of Blue Card ?
How long do I have to wait to start working in Poland after submitting the application for Blue Card?

Thank you to anyone that can help me with this topic.

acabra85 wrote:

1.  I want to take employment in Poland (I have a valid Offer from Polish Company)
2. I currently hold a valid Blue Card from another member state.

Can I start working in Poland after applying for a Blue Card in Poland?
Has anyone relocated to Poland on the basis of Blue Card ?
How long do I have to wait to start working in Poland after submitting the application for Blue Card?

Thank you to anyone that can help me with this topic.

You are asking questions about Poland on the Germany forum, why? Ask specifics on the Poland forum. But the answers seem obvious. One cannot go to work in a country on the basis of having applied for a blue card or other type of work permit, one has to wait until it is approved. And to know how long approval takes, one can best ask the officials you applied to. Anything else is speculation.

Thank You for the information, I will redirect my question to the Polish forum. Please note in the thread above, someone replied indicating that on the same day of the application for Blue Card he was granted a Work Authorization for 3 months. So my question is still valid and the answer is not obvious.
Thanks.

acabra85 wrote:

Thank You for the information, I will redirect my question to the Polish forum. Please note in the thread above, someone replied indicating that on the same day of the application for Blue Card he was granted a Work Authorization for 3 months. So my question is still valid and the answer is not obvious.
Thanks.

It still comes down to the decision of approval or not. The post you are referring to said something about pre-approval which then was a decision that the card would be approved but issued later. One still has to wait for a decision, whether they call it approval and issue the card right away or call it pre-approval and physically make out the card later doesn’t seem to be important.   This is NOT just having put in an application. And again the specifics of how things will be done should be addressed to Poland and not Germany.

What a useful thread and glad I came across it. Lot of queries answered but still some questions for me.

I was in Paris on French Blue card (less than 18 months- i understand I don't get some advantages) and got a job in berlin. My company applied for blue card/residence permit in Germany, and not a D visa or national visa. Been bit more than a month and still waiting to get an appointment.

Question: A german lawyer told me that you can't directly apply in Germany for blue card /residence card. You must apply to German consulate in Paris for either D visa or Blue card (either ways) but my company believes it is completely ok to apply directly in Berlin (they apply while I am still in Paris) and they say they got pre approval and waiting for appointment date. I am just wondering who is right among the two (My company also is a young start up so not a big experience in applying for blue card for someone who is already in europe)

For folks who did the process - did they apply in German consulate in their country or their company applied in Germany ?

Thanks a lot. It would be really helpful if someone has some insights.

vikram_j wrote:

What a useful thread and glad I came across it. Lot of queries answered but still some questions for me.

I was in Paris on French Blue card (less than 18 months- i understand I don't get some advantages) and got a job in berlin. My company applied for blue card/residence permit in Germany, and not a D visa or national visa. Been bit more than a month and still waiting to get an appointment.

Question: A german lawyer told me that you can't directly apply in Germany for blue card /residence card. You must apply to German consulate in Paris for either D visa or Blue card (either ways) but my company believes it is completely ok to apply directly in Berlin (they apply while I am still in Paris) and they say they got pre approval and waiting for appointment date. I am just wondering who is right among the two (My company also is a young start up so not a big experience in applying for blue card for someone who is already in europe)

For folks who did the process - did they apply in German consulate in their country or their company applied in Germany ?

Thanks a lot. It would be really helpful if someone has some insights.

Check out this article on the German Immigration Authority website. It mentions that one gets a work visa and applies then for the blue card itself after coming to Germany.

https://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlagen/ … le&v=7

I am working in Poland since more than 1 year and received blue card last month. I have now got a job offer from germany company. As per bamf website, i need to hold my current blue card for atleast 18 months before applying for german blue card. but the new employer is saying this is not the case and i can still apply. I am not sure how should i go forward- can i apply for german eu blue card

I would trust information from the authority more than from an employer. But you can of course apply - worst case they just reject it.

Hi Plasmaangel

in step 3 you mentioned that you were still working in poland for german employer while visa, blue card process was in process. Did you quit your Polish employer and worked remotely for german employer during this period.

To your long question, I have a short answer - "if you have already completed 18 months in Blue Card issued country in EU, you will need to complete another 6 months to change job without visa sponsor again". For 18 months, you can change job in the country where you have been working in EU without change in visa.

Hi Guys,

I am working in germany from past 10 months on blue card and want to move to other schengen country for new job,how is 18 months holding blue card required,what is disadvantage if i move to other EU /schengen country before completing 18 months in first member state issued blue card,will it impact accumulation of residence time for long term permit ,i believe i could anyhow travel to other  member state with existing residence title of germany

If you move to another EU country, you need to convert your German Blue Card to one for that country. Ask the authorities in that country how to do this!
Residence time for other long-term visa are generally national, meaning you start at Zero again when you change country.

yes. i agree with Beppi. If you relocate to other country, new blue card will be issued by the new country. your time stay will start from 0 again.

Oh Ok thanks

so if i completed 18 months or more with blue card and then move to other EU/Schengen country then only time spent is accumulated

i was trying my blue card transfer from poland to germany and was not successful. as per my employers atorney agency, only way was to have new german blue card. number of months/years of polish blue card did not matter

I also think that no time in one country will count towards anything in another country, not even in the EU.

vb21 wrote:

i was trying my blue card transfer from poland to germany and was not successful. as per my employers atorney agency, only way was to have new german blue card. number of months/years of polish blue card did not matter

Of course because there is no such thing as a transfer of a blue card; they are always country specific. People often assume otherwise when they read that the conditions are standardized among the EU country that participate in the blue card scheme. Thus having qualified in one country means one will likely qualify in another - if  the same kind of job is also in high demand there.  But there is no guarantee and one still has to apply for a new one, no transfer,

This is not true ,if someone works on blue card in particular eu country say country A, and then for new job move to other eu country for which get blue card of country B,then his residence in country A is cumulative ,with country B,this is confirm after working in country A for 18 or more months this is for sure rule,my doubt was if someone work less than country A if still it will be cumulative

frombombay wrote:

This is not true ,if someone works on blue card in particular eu country say country A, and then for new job move to other eu country for which get blue card of country B,then his residence in country A is cumulative ,with country B,this is confirm after working in country A for 18 or more months this is for sure rule,my doubt was if someone work less than country A if still it will be cumulative

I am setting 2 links below to the English language information about the blue card on the German Immigration site. The first is an overview, the second goes more in detail about such things.

While a blue card itself cannot be transferred, if one gets one in a new country, the time spent in the previous country(s), if over 18 months, will count towards the 60 months total needed to get an EU settlement permit.

https://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlagen/ … e&v=10

https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/Migration … -node.html

This is such a great thread. I really appreciate that you've shared your experiences with this process.
I am in Poland on a Blue Card too. I've been holding my current card for approximately 18 months.

During the process of applying for the new card in Germany, what information did the German authorities ask for you to supply?

If the expiry date on my Polish card is 2024 for example, does it mean that the German authorities will accept this card up until this expiry date?
For example, if I quit my Polish job and go travelling for for a few months, can I come back to the EU and go directly into a German job?

AshNZ wrote:

This is such a great thread. I really appreciate that you've shared your experiences with this process.

If the expiry date on my Polish card is 2024 for example, does it mean that the German authorities will accept this card up until this expiry date?
For example, if I quit my Polish job and go travelling for for a few months, can I come back to the EU and go directly into a German job?

Like already mentioned one cannot transfer the blue card, so you cannot just go to Germany to work on this basis. But if you do apply and get a blue card in Germany then the time spent on the blue card in Poland will be credited.

AshNZ wrote:

During the process of applying for the new card in Germany, what information did the German authorities ask for you to supply?

Polish Blue Card, a signed job contract with the German employer, copy of the University diploma, some other documents.
The future German employer was taking care of the application, so I don't know all the details.

AshNZ wrote:

If the expiry date on my Polish card is 2024 for example, does it mean that the German authorities will accept this card up until this expiry date?
For example, if I quit my Polish job and go travelling for for a few months, can I come back to the EU and go directly into a German job?

If you stay unemployed and leave the country for longer than N months, your Blue Card will lose its validity. I am not sure how long is N currently.

plasmaangel wrote:
AshNZ wrote:

If the expiry date on my Polish card is 2024 for example, does it mean that the German authorities will accept this card up until this expiry date?
For example, if I quit my Polish job and go travelling for for a few months, can I come back to the EU and go directly into a German job?

If you stay unemployed and leave the country for longer than N months, your Blue Card will lose its validity. I am not sure how long is N currently.

Again, the Polish blue card will not be valid in Germany regardless. In the situation you mention, for someone residing in Germany, their residency would be considered abandoned after 6 months away. Likely there are similar rules in Poland but you would have to ask on the Poland forum for such information and not here. But it is a valid question to ask if one has at least 18 months on a blue card elsewhere, will the time be credited in Germany upon getting a blue card if the previous blue card is no longer valid.

And I have to say I don't know this detail. I can only speculate that there could be a period of no longer having a valid blue card in Poland but the time done on the blue card would still be credited. I would suggest putting this question directly to German officials; either through the Germany embassy or consulate - or through German Immigration known as BAMF. There should be a possibility to send questions over their website at bamf(dot)de. But as such rules are likely codified EU-wide, maybe Polish officials can answer the question as well.

only FYI: If you lose your job in Poland while having Blue Card, you have to inform Governor Office and you will have 3 months to find new job; if you don't find it, they will start the process of Blue Card termination, that can lasts for 6-9-12 months ...

hey ,

Thanks for the information , i had few queries to follow up .
you mentioned that
1) I collected all necessary documents to apply for the German Blue Card
--This also includes a rental agreement or stay in Germany right?

3) The immigration services pre-approved my German Blue Card. I was still working in Poland all this time and did not have to quit or apply for any visas. The process took somewhere around 1 month.
--how do i start with this procedure ? I would also like to apply while working here in Poland , i am waiting for a job offer to be provided to me

4) On the 1st day of work in Germany, I had an appointment at Ausländerbehörde where they put a stamp into my passport that allowed me to work for 3 months while my card is in production.
--In short i would like to know if i can start with all the processes while still working in poland , close to my joining date i am planning to Move to germany

inputs would be helpful . thanks in advance
Don't know if anything changed during pandemic that i can submit form  online

mashk wrote:

hey ,

Thanks for the information , i had few queries to follow up .
you mentioned that
1) I collected all necessary documents to apply for the German Blue Card
--This also includes a rental agreement or stay in Germany right?

3) The immigration services pre-approved my German Blue Card. I was still working in Poland all this time and did not have to quit or apply for any visas. The process took somewhere around 1 month.
--how do i start with this procedure ? I would also like to apply while working here in Poland , i am waiting for a job offer to be provided to me

4) On the 1st day of work in Germany, I had an appointment at Ausländerbehörde where they put a stamp into my passport that allowed me to work for 3 months while my card is in production.
--In short i would like to know if i can start with all the processes while still working in poland , close to my joining date i am planning to Move to germany

inputs would be helpful . thanks in advance
Don't know if anything changed during pandemic that i can submit form  online

1 - no, I didn't have a rental agreement by that time, but my friend registered me in their apartment. This was enough.

3 - my future employer did everything by contacting Business Immigration Services of Berlin (https://www.berlin.de/einwanderung/serv … n-service/)

4 - yes, it is possible to do this while still working in Poland, but again - the process was driven by my future employer. I was only providing the documents they requested and didn't actively participate in communication with the business immigration services.

Yesterday I successfully applied for the permanent residence in Germany after having spent almost 3 years here with a Blue Card (having relocated from Poland where I spent 2.5 years with a Blue Card).

I just want to leave this information here to those who may find it useful.

There are 2 types of permanent residence in Germany which are often confused. Whenever someone talks about a permanent residence, you need to clarify which one of these two they mean. They do not exclude each other, you can apply for both and own both at the same time, but usually it doesn't make much sense.
* Niederlassungerlaubnis (§9 of Residence Act) is a typical permanent residence for those who are planning to settle in Germany.
* Daueraufenthalt-EU (§9a of Residence Act) is a European permanent residence.
Daueraufenthalt-EU allows for better mobility within EU: you can move to another country and apply for a temporary residence there without additional bureaucracy (getting the visa, etc). Despite that it's a European permanent residence, it does not give you automatic right to permanently live everywhere you want! It's still tied to the country that issued it. But it's much easier to relocate within EU.


If you don't own a Blue Card, the conditions of getting them are basically the same and include 5 years of stay in Germany. Neiderlassungserlaubnis is easier to lose (6 months outside of Germany) than Daueraufenthalt-EU (12 months outside of EU).

Interesting differences appear if you have a Blue Card:
Neiderlassungserlaubnis - you can get in 33 months if you know German on level A1 or even in 21 months on level B1 (that is why many relocated specialists quickly get this permanent residence and live happily ever after). If it was issued based on a Blue Card, you will lose it if you spend 12 months outside of Germany.
Daueraufenthalt-EU - you still need 5 years to get it, but the periods spent in other countries on a Blue Card are counted towards those 5 years. You need to spend minimum 18 months in each country, and minimum 2 years in Germany (the issuing country). If it was issued based on a Blue Card, you will lose it if you spend 6 years outside of Germany or 2 years outside of EU.

I did not apply for Niderlassungserlaubnis, but decided to wait for an opportunity to apply for Daueraufenthalt-EU (2.5 years in Poland + 2.5 years in Germany).

One curious case I want to mention. In the conditions for Daueraufenthalt-EU
it says that it requires Sufficient knowledge of German and Basic knowledge of the legal and social system in Germany. However, the list of documents has no information on how you're supposed to prove these. During my communication with the Ausländerbehörde I asked many times whether I need to get a certificate of German language (which level and which exam), but they kept answering all other questions and ignoring this one. In the end, I applied without any such certificate, only providing the documents listed on the page. I was expecting that the officer during the appointment will ask me some questions to check my language knowledge or try to have small talk to verify 'sufficiency' of my knowledge, but in the end he only asked me to provide the documents I brought, asked me about my height and eye color to enter into the document and explained how I need to pay. I was really nervous about this appointment, because I can understand German really well, but still can't speak well. In the end, it was not a problem at all.

Hope this info helps.

I really appreciate your effort in sharing your experience. I was looking for comprehensive information on "Daueraufenthalt-EU", and I am glad that I know enough now. Thank you.

Hey  ,
thanks for the update . i had spent 4 years with Polish bluecard and came to munich 1 month ago .
I came here on Blue card visa  , i have to apply for Bluecard in germany soon . Do you know how i can transfer this 4years of Stay with bluecard in poland to Germany for getting a PR in future?

When you went for PR , what did they ask about Poland stay of proof.

Thanks in advance

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