Engineering Bolts and Nuts...where to buy?

You don't want to buy online I take it?

SimCityAT wrote:

You don't want to buy online I take it?

I would do if absolutely necessary but if I go directly to the place, then I can have the items there and then and I can get on with the job without waiting for a delivery.

I've looked at the obvious places for "csavar" and "anya" but they are a bit pricey at auto parts places. 

I'd like a box with various types of nuts and matching bolts in, different sizes.  I do however want them to be properly marked.  Bolts you find in Obi or Praktiker are not strong enough.

These are for critical parts on a car - the suspension and steering - so I have to make sure they are going to be up to a tough job.  I had to grind the old ones off (they were completely rusted and impossible to get out and re-use).

There is a specialty nut and bolt store near me. But they were not uncommonly out of what I needed when I needed it. Might as well just ordered online.

But I instead just started buying what I thought I might, one day, need. When it was in stock. And now have a load of different nuts and bolts in jars in the workshop (yes, I became my father). I don't think I had to buy a bolt or nut now in years. I seem to always have what I need (and a lot of what I may never use --- the price of convenience here).

But even at this store, I think the strongest metric bolt I purchased was 5.6. I don't think that is auto quality.

klsallee wrote:

...

But even at this store, I think the strongest metric bolt I purchased was 5.6. I don't think that is auto quality.

No, that's far too low in quality.  Generally if it's unmarked, it's the lowest grade and in no way good enough for cars.  For not structural cars, you need stainless steel A2-70 or stronger.  I've been studying Nut and Bolts these past days. A4 is stronger but in stainless, stronger  also means more brittle.

I was just buying car parts at Bardi Auto.  This is not a bad shop for car parts.  But do they sell the bolts to go with the car parts? No, they don't.  Not enough joined up thinking.

Mrs Fluffy is going to ask the neighbours - one of whom we think is repairing cars for a living.  Where do you get proper nuts and bolts from?  It's such a basic question - let's hope we can find out.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Mrs Fluffy is going to ask the neighbours - one of whom we think is repairing cars for a living.  Where do you get proper nuts and bolts from?  It's such a basic question - let's hope we can find out.

I would be interested in the results of this query. Keep us informed.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Mrs Fluffy is going to ask the neighbours - one of whom we think is repairing cars for a living.  Where do you get proper nuts and bolts from?  It's such a basic question - let's hope we can find out.

I would be interested in the results of this query. Keep us informed.

Wilco. I just received some parts from the auto supplier and guess what?  Not supplied with the necessary "castle" nut.   The nut situation is escalating.

It is a shame, we have two huge boxes full of nuts, bolts and screws in our storage unit in the states.
I know they are all US gov. approved for the defense industry, heat treated and made from exotic metals that can take force, heat etc.
Think they were in one of the lots we bought from a auction at Sandia Labs in New Mexico.
I wanted to toss them out last time I looked in our unit but my husband said they are hard to find and when you need a good nut they will be handy.
I wish I could just give you a handful, I will never need so many of them in 5 lifetimes.
I would suggest looking on E-bay, asking your mechanic neighbor who works on cars if he knows where to buy them or again, trying to go to a small job shop/ machine shop or some other industrial complex to see if they will either sell you a few extra's or let you know how to order some.
Maybe even someone at a small airport knows where to buy good quality nuts, screws etc. Many of our items were used in the aerospace industry. We used to make parts for airplanes, trains and even the space shuttle( they one that burnt up... Oops..)
If  you can't find a small industrial shop in HU that is willing to sell you a few parts then I suppose you will have to order machine screws online or try to find a machine shop to custom make a few for you.
Used to know some people who only made industrial screws in Ca. , maybe there are still a few of these shops in HU? Csepel Island used to have factories everywhere, last time we looked there it was pretty much closed down, no more factories doing production work.
My husband felt a bit down going there, said it used to be buzzing with activity when he worked there in his youth. Now it's like a ghost village.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

It is a shame, we have two huge boxes full of nuts, bolts and screws in our storage unit in the states.
I know they are all US gov. approved for the defense industry, heat treated and made from exotic metals that can take force, heat etc.
....I would suggest looking on E-bay, asking your mechanic neighbor who works on cars if he knows where to buy them or again, trying to go to a small job shop/ machine shop or some other industrial complex to see if they will either sell you a few extra's or let you know how to order some.
Maybe even someone at a small airport knows where to buy good quality nuts, screws etc. Many of our items were used in the aerospace industry. We used to make parts for airplanes, trains and even the space shuttle( they one that burnt up... Oops..)
....My husband felt a bit down going there, said it used to be buzzing with activity when he worked there in his youth. Now it's like a ghost village.

It seems to be a ridiculous problem to have.   Cannot believe somewhere in Hungary there is not a supplier who will provide small quantities (<10) of decent quality nuts and bolts of different types. 

To be specific, mainly I need about 4 to 6 fully threaded flanged bolts, say, 8-10mm thread (pitch not so important), 13mm hex head, 30-35mm long and associated nylon self locking nuts (if possible, or just flanged matching nuts) all to say SAE 8*. 

Better if galvanised to reduce rust. Stainless steel would be OK too so long as it's not too brittle. 

I now also need a castle nut about 18mm maybe 20mm.  I've got plenty of split pins already.

I did have a problem once before trying to get UNF (American) wheel nuts for my car - they only had metric ones and at stupid prices.   I had to get those UNF ones sent from the UK. It was cheaper to do that than buy them here!   That seems absurd to me.

Auto parts stores here will sell you the easy stuff.  Once it gets technical, they all fail big time.  I don't know why parts here don't come with the nuts and bolts.

It's a recurrent problem here - just trying to find out  where to go for these and other things. 

Other problems I'm trying to solve for my house - find someone who can do a hidden guttering solution - needs a specialist solution.  I could do it myself but better if someone else does it.   We had a guy around here about our kitchen installation the other day and he'd never heard of mood lighting.  Aw, come on!  Never noticed subtle lighting techniques? Jeez....

*edit: I think the equivalent is an 8.8 - a metric measure, so to be utterly safe I really need strong bolt with metric 10.9.

You need a lathe machine to turn out your own products.
Could look into a small "chucker" lathe, used maybe?
I told my husband when we lived in Hawaii that he should of bought a few machines and did parts all custom made for bikes, boats whatever. There was only one small machine shop at the time in Hilo.
He just got burnt out with our old shops over the years and gave up, I know in a remote area his skills would be in high demand, great little part-time gig plus he loves doing it even though it's work.
Better then doing puzzles to keep the old brain sharp.
I know beginner machinists learn to make screws before anything really complicated so maybe there is still someone willing to make a few for you without busting the bank in cost.
I noticed online that many places wanted a min. order of say 50 or more screws of the same size per order... That's allot for just one car.
Crazy idea but perhaps you can find a similar style car here in a auto wrecking yard and remove the screws and nuts yourself. We often do this in the US , some wrecks have brand new parts still in great working order.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

You need a lathe machine to turn out your own products.
Could look into a small "chucker" lathe, used maybe?
....
I noticed online that many places wanted a min. order of say 50 or more screws of the same size per order... That's allot for just one car.
Crazy idea but perhaps you can find a similar style car here in a auto wrecking yard and remove the screws and nuts yourself. We often do this in the US , some wrecks have brand new parts still in great working order.

Well, yes, I did think about this but what I need is so trivial, I am amazed it's become so difficult.  My car is unusual and there almost no models the same.  The particular application is in a bad position so anything on a scrap vehicle is likely to be utterly rusted and unusable.

There are automotive suppliers near here like Wurth but they won't sell to individuals.  I need also such small quantities no-one is interested at all. 

Exasperating!

Buying a lathe would be utterly OTT but would be a cool toy to play with.

If necessary I will just buy these  stupid little items in the UK and collect them when I go there.  Ridiculous my car is disabled for a few 20HUF bolts and nuts.  We're going to try and ring around a few places and see what we can find.

Maybe just walk into a few repair shops, maybe they have some around and are willing to sell them?

Latest update on the bolt bolt (Anglo-Hungarian "joke"). 

Secret knowledge obtained from my neighbour (I think he's a retired motor mechanic). 

The top news is this place does suitable bolts, reasonable price and individually:

Nagy es Nagy Metric Bolts

Address: Róbert Károly krt No 68, District 13 ! (off Arpad bridge)

Going to check it out soon.

Fingers crossed!

fluffy2560 wrote:

The top news is this place does suitable bolts, reasonable price and individually:

Nagy es Nagy Metric Bolts

Excellent. I bookmarked their web site.

Best of luck hope you don't get s******!... Like why would it be such a big secret, silly stuff.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Like why would it be such a big secret, silly stuff.

Run into this all the time here. "Gotta know a guy".

Of course, there is also the language issue. Even my wife does not know all the "technical" terms in specialty fields sometimes.

But once I have one web site, I can then learn the words that define a part, and can search for other sources. For example, from the bolt company provided above, I now know at least one way of describing a galvanized hexagon headed bolt metric 8.8 grade:

hatlapfejű részmenetes csavar horganyzott 8.8

Which I then plug into argep.hu, and can find other sources.

klsallee wrote:

....But once I have one web site, I can then learn the words that define a part, and can search for other sources. For example, from the bolt company provided above, I now know at least one way of describing a galvanized hexagon headed bolt metric 8.8 grade:

hatlapfejű részmenetes csavar horganyzott 8.8

Which I then plug into argep.hu, and can find other sources.

Yes, exactly but have you heard of "peremes"?  This apparently is a flange on a nut or bolt.   These are as rare as unicorns.

Bolt Bolt Update:

We were at Nagy and Nagy and it's another difficult situation.   Fella was miserable as sin but we managed to get 6 x 8.8 bolts, 10mm, hex heads, galvanised.   Due to a stupid misunderstanding, he gave us the stuff in a paper bag from behind the counter and he left out some washers we'd asked for.  We didn't know this. 

Anyway, literally 100m around the corner is a 10.9 bolt shop with a happier guy and some impressive tool stocks BUT yet again they only have the bolts, no nuts and no washers. 

So it was then supposedly back home but we discovered we were missing the washers.  So it was on to Budaors where we managed to buy the washers at yet another shop called (oddly) Plusz and Roll 95.  They also don't have flanged nuts and they don't have nuts either.   They do have however the largest collection of bearings I've see - that's worth knowing.

We then tried Bardi Auto again after the neighbour said the got his bolts from there and once again, there as no chance.

All of this has taken from about 10h to 15h (ok, we had lunch and some coffee as well).

My target was 6 x 10.9 10mm heat treated bolts about 35mm long with flanged heads and flanged accompanying nuts.

Current inventory is  6 x 8.8 10mm galvanised bolts about 6cm long, 6 x galvanised  flanged nuts of indeterminate quality, 6 x 10.9 bolts 10mm about 6cm long.   Plus about 18 variously designed galvanised washers of different diameters.    All of this has cost about 600 Ft in money terms for actual goods.  5h of our time, plus about 6 L of fuel maybe.

Like most things here, you grab what you can when you see it otherwise it'll be gone and never seen again.

It's really weird.  It's like having to go to different shops to buy say a pencil -  wood from one, eraser from another and lead from yet another.

So we're not quite there yet and I'm thinking of resorting to mail order.  I cannot waste time going to every little shop asking for all the little bits and pieces.  5h for bolt shopping today! Terrible.

fluffy2560 wrote:

have you heard of "peremes"?  This apparently is a flange on a nut or bolt.

Actually, yes. The nuts are often used on bikes to secure the wheels rather than quick release levers. The bolts are available in Hungary e-shops (but I do not know if they are of the quality you need), but have not seen them in brick and mortar stores here.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Bolt Bolt Update:
I cannot waste time going to every little shop asking for all the little bits and pieces.  5h for bolt shopping today! Terrible.

You have far, far more patience than me. I would have ordered on-line by now.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

have you heard of "peremes"?  This apparently is a flange on a nut or bolt.

Actually, yes. The nuts are often used on bikes to secure the wheels rather than quick release levers. The bolts are available in Hungary e-shops (but I do not know if they are of the quality you need), but have not seen them in brick and mortar stores here.

Yes, that's  right, that's the same.  I had forgotten that. Maybe I could have bike nuts instead.  At least I know the word "peremes" now. 

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Bolt Bolt Update:
I cannot waste time going to every little shop asking for all the little bits and pieces.  5h for bolt shopping today! Terrible.

You have far, far more patience than me. I would have ordered on-line by now.

Yes, people tell me I'm very patient. However, I'm there, quiet, with rapidly escalating blood pressure when it goes wrong.  You know what  happens when the safety valve blows on boiler! And I don't mean whistle.

I misguidedly thought I could save time doing it myself at the bolt bolt.  However, with all the rain today, the car is very soggy outside on axle stands and no action has taken place.  I repaired my laptop instead (needed a new fan).

Rumour has it that it will be "fair" at the weekend.  So I can maybe do a blitz on the car now I have enough bolts for a "bolt fest".

The lathe is not the answer as high tensile bolts have rolled threads, not cut threads. They will also be heat treated after manufacture, so you would also need a furnace! I was going to suggest engineering supplies shops but it looks like you have already found some. The other route is to find people who build competition vehicles and ask where they get their fittings. I did change a differential bearing in my car gearbox and that bearing came from a shop in Nagykanizsa.

All this reminds me of my attempts to get "proper" solder flux for fixing leaks in my central heating plumbing. When I installed the system in Hungary I still had some flux I brought from UK but I had to buy more to do the system at the Croatia house. The only sort I could get  in Hungary or Croatia was a mixture of flux and powdered solder. There must be a different technique for using that and I have not mastered it, hence the leaks. With the UK type flux you add solder until it forms a complete ring round the joint. With this stuff from Hungary you can't tell if you have the ring of solder because the whole area that was coated in flux becomes tinned. Also the powdered solder is the lead free sort whereas I want to solder the joints with lead solder, as it is not drinking water but recirculated antifreeze solution.
I eventually ordered some flux on UK Ebay. I ordered it on November 23 and it finally arrived yesterday.

Yes all of our old nuts bolts and screws were heat treated, a costly thing for the everyday person to have done.
Most all of our old machining jobs had to be heat treated at some point during the making. My job was to load up the parts and take them to the place for treatments, pick up when finished a few days later and sometimes deliver parts my husband had finished and have papers signed for our payment. Hard thing was sometimes they don't pay for 160 days!!! It's not easy being on your own. We were flush on paper but not always in the bank account. The checks in the mail was usually the story we got.

fidobsa wrote:

The lathe is not the answer as high tensile bolts have rolled threads, not cut threads. They will also be heat treated after manufacture, so you would also need a furnace! I was going to suggest engineering supplies shops but it looks like you have already found some. The other route is to find people who build competition vehicles and ask where they get their fittings. I did change a differential bearing in my car gearbox and that bearing came from a shop in Nagykanizsa.

Bearings are relatively easy to get but finding the equivalent ones to your vehicle here is quite a challenge especially  if odd sizes.  I rebuilt by rear axle and in the end I just couldn't get all the parts here.  As I have an American car (it's a hobby) I had to get the parts as a kit shipped from the USA (ouch! Duty, VAT etc) and some other parts from the UK.  I couldn't get the pinion and rear gear precisely aligned as it's a tricky job so I've still got noticeable whine back there.  However, it's almost at 14K km so I must have done something right.   I learnt a lot.

It's baffling me how day to day fixing of vehicles is accomplished here and no-one has simple things like flanged bolts. 

But I just remembered these people in Debrecen - Lincos. I bought a few bits from them over the years.  As usual, the problem is their stuff is usually on the cheaper side of manufacture.  Still works but might only work 10 years instead of 20.

fidobsa wrote:

All this reminds me of my attempts to get "proper" solder flux for fixing leaks in my central heating plumbing. ...
I eventually ordered some flux on UK Ebay. I ordered it on November 23 and it finally arrived yesterday.

UK plumbing is very different to here.  UK uses a lot of compression fittings which I think are rubbish.  They also have these push fit ones in the UK.  Doubtful about those too.

I bought my solder and flux from Screwfix in the UK.  I also have a small number of Yorkshire/capillary fittings (with the solder band inside) but in the end I only used a few of them here for the reasons below. 

I would say to be cautious here in the winter, I've had several  copper pipes go on me on places that were inadequately heated.  If it's cold in the place it's fine as the ice plugs the hole but as soon as winter is over, ice melts and there's a flood. Copper cannot take it - too weak - so that's why they muck around with steel pipes and weld them.  In the end I  started to braze steel pipe together as my welding stills are not great.  So much stronger than soft solder. 

One thing I do when I soft solder two pipes together is have a wet cloth handy.  Then when the joint looks sealed, wipe the pipes with the wet cloth and this will clean up the joint and flux before it's cooled and gives a nicer finish.

fluffy2560 wrote:

at the bolt bolt.

Even I know enough Hungarian to see what you did there. Clever. 

fluffy2560 wrote:

Rumour has it that it will be "fair" at the weekend.  So I can maybe do a blitz on the car now I have enough bolts for a "bolt fest".

After a few days of warmish weather, with a bit of rain, I also read it will be fair this weekend.... and cold!

And I still have to finish my external plumbing project digging ditches before the ground freezes. Why did I not do it sooner, you ask. Because I am an idiot. That is why. That and who wants to dig 70 cm deep ditches in any weather? I should have hired a excavator. So I am sitting here procrastinating again. Hoping beyond hope for some balmy weather.

fluffy2560 wrote:

It's baffling me how day to day fixing of vehicles is accomplished here and no-one has simple things like flanged bolts.

I think some might involve bailing wire and chewing gum....

Pride of independent solution solving. 

fluffy2560 wrote:

UK plumbing is very different to here.  UK uses a lot of compression fittings which I think are rubbish.  They also have these push fit ones in the UK.  Doubtful about those too.

I had been putting off a major plumbing renovation for years. I can do copper soldering, but rather not. So procrastinated. Finally had PEX pipe and fittings available locally. PEX is great. The connectors are very expensive. But the pipe is cheap. So I went all in with PEX this fall during our (ongoing) kitchen/bathroom renovation.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I would say to be cautious here in the winter, I've had several  copper pipes go on me on places that were inadequately heated.

Had that happen once. Then either added heating to areas that needed it, or redid all the plumbing that was outside and not used in winter to include drain cocks to drain all the water that would else over winter above ground. Bury everything else at least 60 cm deep, and is should not freeze.

The only "main line" pipe I have seen here is a thick black plastic pipe. I have not actually seen iron or steel used. Else, have seen bronze and copper mostly. But, still fell in love with PEX myself for in the house DIY work.

klsallee wrote:

...And I still have to finish my external plumbing project digging ditches before the ground freezes. Why did I not do it sooner, you ask. Because I am an idiot. That is why. That and who wants to dig 70 cm deep ditches in any weather? I should have hired a excavator. So I am sitting here procrastinating again. Hoping beyond hope for some balmy weather.

I also need an excavator (or Bobcat) to fill in some holes in the garden and to flatten out some hillocks created during some construction.  Maybe even put some crushed rock down temporarily for car standing.

I had been doing this hole filling manually but after about 3 or 4 barrow loads I get bored and give up.  Earth is heavy.  Wet earth is extremely heavy.  Mrs Fluffy and I have been trying to find someone with the machine to come around and flatten it out.  But as  usual, nope, cannot find anyone.  No "complete" service possible.

I notice professional construction workers are out in all weather - raining now I've got a bad back for some reason - probably from working on the blinking car.  I'm not that dedicated. Working outside today would be barmy, never mind if it's balmy.

klsallee wrote:

...Had that happen once. Then either added heating to areas that needed it, or redid all the plumbing that was outside and not used in winter to include drain cocks to drain all the water that would else over winter above ground. Bury everything else at least 60 cm deep, and is should not freeze.

The only "main line" pipe I have seen here is a thick black plastic pipe. I have not actually seen iron or steel used. Else, have seen bronze and copper mostly. But, still fell in love with PEX myself for in the house DIY work.

Oh, I meant the pipes inside the house shouldn't really be copper and yes, drain cocks to empty the water (and leave the tap open).  The main lines are indeed thick plastic and buried deep.  Our water meter is down a hole about 1m deep.  Even then we've insulated it and the cover.  Our water meter was frozen once and blew up.   Major inconvenience.

Just an anecdote:

My ex-wife told me a story* about her sister. The sister was living in a UK house with two bathrooms - one downstairs and one upstairs.  I had been there a couple of times.  Her husband was a carpenter but he did other things like plumbing around the house.  Outside the house, down the side was the driveway.   She was in the habit of parking her white car about level with the upstairs bathroom.   I should say in the UK, much of the pipework for drainage - including waste - is usually on the outside of the house.  That's because it never actually gets cold enough to freeze up.

So, hubby has been renovating the upstairs bathroom and goes to work.  The wife is basically staying home during the day.   Unbeknownst to her, hubby has disconnected the waste pipes on the outside of the house and had not told her.  So she gets up and goes to the bathroom and flushes the loo as normal and goes about her daily routine.  This goes on for some time.  Then she decides to go out and exits the house to get in her car.

There she finds her car covered in dissolved toilet paper, p**s and s**t.


* some ex-wives need to be treated with suspicion so I am still not sure if this was just an urban myth

fluffy2560 wrote:

Mrs Fluffy and I have been trying to find someone with the machine to come around and flatten it out.  But as  usual, nope, cannot find anyone.  No "complete" service possible.

Well.... I know a guy. Has large and mini excavators. Have used his services before. A lot actually. I sill have about 2.5 meters of trench to dig, then a new leaching area which is much, much larger. If I can not do it by Monday, a phone call will be made.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Mrs Fluffy and I have been trying to find someone with the machine to come around and flatten it out.  But as  usual, nope, cannot find anyone.  No "complete" service possible.

Well.... I know a guy. Has large and mini excavators. Have used his services before. A lot actually. I sill have about 2.5 meters of trench to dig, then a new leaching area which is much, much larger. If I can not do it by Monday, a phone call will be made.

I think calling him will get it done faster. 

When you say leaching, do you mean, a soakaway?

This is what we call a rock or rubble filled space underground for water to disperse.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I think calling him will get it done faster.

Absolutely.

And my wallet will be much, much lighter too. He is not cheap.

fluffy2560 wrote:

When you say leaching, do you mean, a soak-away?

This is what we call a rock or rubble filled space underground for water to disperse.

Kind of, but not quite just a rock filled hole. These old types are junk. Eventually fail.

I am installing a modern waste water system:

http://www.ontozo.hu/termekek/esoviz-ta … zto-alagut

And, yes, I have all the permits (took me literally years to them).

klsallee wrote:

....

Kind of, but not quite just a rock filled hole. These old types are junk. Eventually fail.

I am installing a modern waste water system:

http://www.ontozo.hu/termekek/esoviz-ta … zto-alagut

And, yes, I have all the permits (took me literally years to them).

This is where I was going.   There's a cell type storage system I looked at - I was thinking of digging out the old septic tank, then using the hole for the cell storage system for garden watering.   I abandoned the idea eventually because it's cheaper and easier (permit wise even) for me to drill a well than collect rainwater.   I'm only using this kind of water in my garden - no farm or vineyard - so my needs are trivially small.

fluffy2560 wrote:

it's cheaper and easier (permit wise even) for me to drill a well than collect rainwater.

Which, when one thinks about it, for 1 second or less, is backwards.

It should be easier to get a permit to collect rain water on your own property for your own use than to drill a well that affects an aquifer which affects all property owners around you.

But "logic" and "bureaucracy" are not synonyms.

fluffy2560 wrote:

UK plumbing is very different to here.  UK uses a lot of compression fittings which I think are rubbish.  They also have these push fit ones in the UK.  Doubtful about those too.

I bought my solder and flux from Screwfix in the UK.  I also have a small number of Yorkshire/capillary fittings (with the solder band inside) but in the end I only used a few of them here for the reasons below. 

I would say to be cautious here in the winter, I've had several  copper pipes go on me on places that were inadequately heated.  If it's cold in the place it's fine as the ice plugs the hole but as soon as winter is over, ice melts and there's a flood. Copper cannot take it - too weak - so that's why they muck around with steel pipes and weld them.  In the end I  started to braze steel pipe together as my welding stills are not great.  So much stronger than soft solder.

I actually ripped out all the old rusty iron pipes and did everything with Hep2O push fit plastic pipe. I have been using that for about 10 years without any problems. The copper pipes are the ones near the boiler, where plastic would not be a good idea. As I said, this runs on antifreeze so should be OK down to -20 or so. For the Hungary system I used normal car antifreeze but for the Croatia one I bought antifreeze sold for liquid filled solar panels. That antifreeze was one of the most expensive items in the system!

I like compression fittings and bought all the compression radiator valves from Screwfix. The fittings I dislike are the threaded ones you seal with PTFE tape. As an engineer this seems an incredibly crude way to get a watertight seal. The push fit plastic fittings use O rings and to me that is the ideal way of getting a perfect seal.

I have had a couple of floods due to frost damage but not pipe failures. In one case it was one of the threaded joints, I think on the washing machine tap. The other was the expensive and nearly new thermostatic shower / bath mixer I had fitted. The ice forced off the thermostatic valve, shearing off the small brass screw that holds it in place. I'm not sure how to prevent that. I can turn the water off  outside and turn all the taps on but that valve might still be holding back water. I suppose the same applies to the WC valve but that would be cheaper to renew. I also put salt in the WC pan if I'm leaving the house unheated during January and February.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

it's cheaper and easier (permit wise even) for me to drill a well than collect rainwater.

Which, when one thinks about it, for 1 second or less, is backwards.

It should be easier to get a permit to collect rain water on your own property for your own use than to drill a well that affects an aquifer which affects all property owners around you.

But "logic" and "bureaucracy" are not synonyms.

Yes, it would be an oxymoron - logical bureaucracy.   And totally ludicrous to prefer well over storage. 

I once saw a reality TV programme about a guy fixing up a house in Italy.  For the work he was doing, he didn't need a permit.  However, he needed a paper to say he didn't need a permit.  A process that took longer than obtaining a permit which he decided would be a better bet time wise than obtaining the non-permit paper.  So he applied for it but was told he didn't need one.     So in the interim he started work but was caught by a building inspector who wanted to see his non-permit and when he couldn't produce one he had to stop work until he had one.  At that point I think his head probably imploded - I didn't see what finally happened.  I didn't see any reports of someone going postal in an Italian local government office.

As it's the festive season, I thought I'd share a picture of my nuts:
















Oh yeah, I know what you were thinking.  Shows what a challenge it was to get these buggers off.  I had to use the angle grinder on one.  The other I used a reverse "biting" socket on until it sheared off.   New 10.9 bolt beside the offending bolt (I'll have to shorten it - easy). Maybe call it a BLT.

Still, after considerable effort, lots of grunting and pulling, I got my nuts off and I feel a lot better for it now.

fidobsa wrote:

...I actually ripped out all the old rusty iron pipes and did everything with Hep2O push fit plastic pipe. I have been using that for about 10 years without any problems. The copper pipes are the ones near the boiler, where plastic would not be a good idea. As I said, this runs on antifreeze so should be OK down to -20 or so. For the Hungary system I used normal car antifreeze but for the Croatia one I bought antifreeze sold for liquid filled solar panels. That antifreeze was one of the most expensive items in the system!

I know exactly what you mean with that antifreeze. I also used that in my system when I lived in Austria.  What a rip off.   I thought about using car antifreeze but I expected I'd get into trouble using if anyone found out and possibly I'd void my warranty on the boiler which I did actually have to use as the heat exchanger failed.  I never used the Hep20 fittings although I've seen them

fidobsa wrote:

I like compression fittings and bought all the compression radiator valves from Screwfix. The fittings I dislike are the threaded ones you seal with PTFE tape. As an engineer this seems an incredibly crude way to get a watertight seal. The push fit plastic fittings use O rings and to me that is the ideal way of getting a perfect seal.

It's even worse for plumbing in Austria for ancient practices.  They are using horse hair or hemp for doing joints. It seems to be a lot more effective than PTFE.  You use it with a joint sealer.   Recently I've been using PTFE on my air line tool connectors from my compressor and I'm not very impressed with it at all either.  I think possibly it's just sloppy Chinese made connectors.   I did get some sealant from Screwfix last time I was in the UK -  Leak Sealer.  Not tried it yet but it seems to have a good write up. 

One thing with steel pipes is installing magnetic filters.  I find this rather weird to do - using steel with water is bound to end up with bother. I've had them in my houses previously and strangely I have one now (I don't have steel pipes so what's it there for?).  In the past I've also been using Fernox on it - might actually be illegal in Austria but worked no problem there - better than their bog standard rip off stuff.  In my current house, everything is plastic except boiler to manifold which is copper.  Once on the manifold, it's on insulated plastic pipe to the rads.

fidobsa wrote:

... I also put salt in the WC pan if I'm leaving the house unheated during January and February.

Never thought of that.

Next time you order from Screwfix, get some liquid PTFE. Again it is not available in Hungary but it seems to work.

fidobsa wrote:

Next time you order from Screwfix, get some liquid PTFE. Again it is not available in Hungary but it seems to work.

Not being available in Hungary seems to be a common thing. *sigh*.

fluffy2560 wrote:

As it's the festive season, I thought I'd share a picture of my nuts:

It is the Christmas season in Hungary. You are suppose to show us your balls:

fidobsa wrote:

Next time you order from Screwfix, get some liquid PTFE. Again it is not available in Hungary but it seems to work.

Loctite is available in Hungary. One of their products in the 500 series is probably the one to look into for plumbing, depending on application and on site needs.