NEW JOB SCAM IN MALAYSIA

We keep saying not to send money or agree to anything but expats keep stubbornly ignoring warnings. Then they come to forums after they have been scammed and want help getting their money back---and of course a job.

I advise people to come here and ask FIRST before responding to anything. If someone wants my help I can verify if an offer is real if they cannot do so themselves.

You can lead a horse to water ! but you cannot make it drink .......

Woody, Ive been on expat forums for 14 years and honestly, im jaded, tired and cynical. Once in a while, pretty rarely, expats show up who are smart and flexible and willing to learn AND apply that learning. They are a joy to talk to. Its so easy and then we can keep the show rolling. But others...ugh....cant and wont learn, are stubborn, refuse to listen, make the same mistakes over and over, ask the same questions over and over and we make no progress at all.

Not just me, there are others in the forums who know stuff and want to help. That water the horse wont drink, im telling you its not poison! For gods sakes drink it! Oh man........

I almost fell for it as the St. Regis KL put a great package together.

Unfortunately the people I spoke to, altogether very professional sounding, don't work for St.Regis. I rang up the Executive office and was told straight away that there is a scam making the rounds.

The scammers expected me to pay 50% of the flight to KL using moneygram, which rang a couple of alarm bells. Then the scammer kept on playing the game all though I caught them out!! That's the mobile number which was used to make contact: +60163970015. The name for the moneygram transfer would have been: Anak Jadam Darrwinna

Rather annoying as I was ready to leave the UK and do something different.

Good luck to these guys,

About St. Regis and all similar.......there is no legitimate position one could take that should or would result in an applicant sending any money whatsoever to anyone requesting it in advance of employment. YES, in the case of real employment agencies an applicant could be asked to sign a contract for services under which a fee is owed an agent for the procurement of a job but even then that fee isnt due until after employment has started.

Over the years, the police have been in the newspapers urging people to avoid "advance agents" who request money for all kinds of things including employment, house-finding, travel packages, dispute settlement, immigration problem-smoothing, visas, etc. "Send me RM1500 and I'll secure that visa for you," and people, who have heard about scams, believe that maybe THIS time its different, THIS time they wont steal the money and so they send it. They think that maybe its not a scam since the agent is only asking for a specific charge thats not for the agent like airfare or a mandatory government fee.  And whether or not the agents continue to tap the well depends on the attitude of the client. If the scamee readily gave the money and is very polite, the agent will hit them over and over again until the scamee squeals like a pig.

Advance agents operate everywhere. I know Malaysians and Filipinos who have suffered visa and job scam losses for opportunities in UK, USA, France and Canada. I know Vietnamese who have been scammed for visas in France. The only thing I believe is that advance agent scamming must be the worlds second oldest profession and I swear, they all talk like they come from the same family! They certainly come from the same school.

So, in the case of St. Regis, sending money to an agent for 50% of airfare is, on its face, a ludicrous proposition. Why would anyone send money somewhere else for an air ticket they would be expecting to purchase fully on their own in their own country? And what does it have to do with employment?  But the advance agent knows the scamee might well balk at sending money for the employment tip, so what else COULD he ask him for? Ah...air ticket. He might well go further and promise a refund-on-arrival of that deposit as the airline is promoting Malaysia in partnership with the Tourism ministry.

I can go on a long time on this topic. I'll just say two things. There is no such thing as paying in advance for a job or any part of the process; I realize people are very anxious to settle a matter like a job but sadly to say, it has to be done the hard way.

Please do go online to the police and make a report about your St. Regis agent. Maybe the police can grab him.
http://ccid.my/en/contacts/

Scams are so rampant these days. The rule is: if it sounds dodgy, it probably is; if it's too good to be true, it probably is as well!

St. Regis in Kuala Lumpur. They do it pretty good....but to good to be true. Excellent salary, great benefits, family package, car, medical...and after they tell you to pay half of the ticket:)...really:)
Be aware of it. I received the offer for Deputy GM. I thought its a scam. I checked the web site, checked the phone number of the hotel and the one provided by the fake one. Called the Hotel and...the rest is history.

Jonathan100 wrote:

Scams are so rampant these days. The rule is: if it sounds dodgy, it probably is; if it's too good to be true, it probably is as well!

Yes, and not just the number of scams but the ways. The police close the door on one method and the next day scammers have five new methods for the same scam.

Dont know about 2017 but in 2016 police reported that Malaysians were losing $20 million per month to scams. It seems a large number because we think of scams as involving RM500 or RM1000 or RM50. But we forget that the easiest people to scam are rich people because they are greedy and motivated to increase wealth. So, many scams are for RM100,000, RM1,000,000, high numbers, like partnerships in businesses that dont exist, or a share of a diamond mine, etc.

Most scams are done online because the scammers think the net can hide them. But Police keep increasing their tools to find them-- and they do.

I begin relationships with trust until its proven otherwise. I build up DIS-trust a step at a time. If I started off believing everyone was a scammer, i'd be carrying around a much worse disposition than I already have and I dont know what good is served with that.  YES, trust and respect have to be earned but I give people some benefit of doubt and see what they do with it.

Best thing is to go slowly with people and hold on to money until you find a concrete reason to part with it. As far as online strangers, the automatic answer to handing over money is NO. I dont care who the person or what the reason. Unless you have some sort of relationship and know who and what the money is going for, the answer is NO.

good morning I was offered a job as an executive chef at the St Regis hotel. they ask me half the money with the plane ticket, how can I tell if it's a scam?

Most probably a scam. A company would never ask you to pay upfront.

Most probably a scam. A company would never ask you to pay upfront.

10000% scam

I'm  an indian. my employer trying to get visa for me, its being rejected. now they ask me to come malaysia as  a tourist for 3 months, in that duration we will try to apply visa , so that they bring me directly to malaysian embassy to apply emp pass like that they saying. they didnt ask single penny form me. how many possibilities to get visa being in malaysia, or what should i do for get visa in legal way, or what should i expect from my employer(VDR something i dono about this much). please kindly help me

Marichamy wrote:

I'm  an indian. my employer trying to get visa for me, its being rejected. now they ask me to come malaysia as  a tourist for 3 months, in that duration we will try to apply visa , so that they bring me directly to malaysian embassy to apply emp pass like that they saying. they didnt ask single penny form me. how many possibilities to get visa being in malaysia, or what should i do for get visa in legal way, or what should i expect from my employer(VDR something i dono about this much). please kindly help me

This sounds like a replay of Forest City.

If the application is being rejected you must find out why and work on those problems and if you cannot solve them then thats your final answer. You cannot come on a tourist visa and work. You also have to be imported for work. If the application is being rejected now, what does you employer expect to change after you arrive? Suddenly you get your visa? They may not have asked for money but do they expect you to start working while they try to work on your application problems? If that, you would get yourself in a lot of trouble and the employer might both blame you and have an excuse to not pay you. Visa FIRST.

It's a job scam. It is impossible to get an EP without getting the VDR first while outside Malaysia. You will end up an illegal immigrant with no way to exit apart from being deported. Wait for a legitimate job  offer and proper process.

"If " immigration has rejected an application the situation wont change by being inside Malaysia.

This is how the scam works.

1. You enter Malaysia on a tourist visa valid for 15/30 days
2. The company takes your passport saying its applying for a work visa
3. You are trapped in Malaysia
4. You start working for the company
5. They say they are waiting for your EP to be granted
6. They deduct tax from your salary (but don't pay it to the tax office)
7. They keep saying you should wait
8. You continue to overstay your tourist visa but can't leave as you don't have passport
9. Eventually you give up and want to leave as you have no EP
10. Company keeps you on the hook for as long as possible as you are servicing their clients
11. You get your passport back and try to leave but get deported as your are an illegal worker
12. You get a 5 year ban on entering Malaysia.

I had a similar problem many years back: My employer hadn't prepared any working permit when I arrived in Malaysia stating that they hadn't received my documents.
Upon my arrival and after I had handed over all my necessary documents (which I originally had sent in time, but which I -  as they hadn't arrived - had to organize again from inside Malaysia my employer applied for a working permit. Meanwhile I was still staying on a tourist visa. With this tourist visa being about to expire my employer discussed with the immigration what to do and I got a one-month extension visa (for which the employer paid) and finally I received the working permit.

Good luck for you!

In addition to my former answer I would like to mention that I started only working after I received the working permit.

The rules changed in August 2016 and the Visa With Reference  (vdr) became a requirement. The single entry visa is  collected outside Malaysia at the Malaysian consulate or high commission.

The reason was protection for foreigners who were being cheated and misused by local companies who couldn't legally hire them.

Luckily I wasn't asked to pay for an employment pass. I was just told that it'll take up to 3 months and it'll all be fine. Good thing is,  this company didn't mind me starting work with a tourist visa while the employment pass was in process.

Omar - UK Citizens do not require a visa to enter Malaysi,  so no problem.

However, even UK Citizens are supposed to be outside Malaysia while the Stage I (Visa Approval) is carried out.

The scam is mainly aimed at Indian nationals, it seems, who do not check the rules for Visa with Reference (VDR) requirement.

I dont think it can be called a scam when a legit employer is just trying to get something for nothing by circumventing or bending the rules. He is still offering the job. SCAM to me refers to someone taking money under the promise of a job that never materializes because there never was a real job or real employer. When its a real scam, has anyone ever heard of such people ever being brought to justice? I havent. The true scammers, and who operate in Malaysia, need to be identified so people can see who they are and get the people into jail.

Im not sure how to answer the question of what processes MUST occur inside OR outside Malaysia. Long ago when my own company decided to hire me, i was already in KL. Everything was processed here. Since even then there was the requirement of first being outside the country before a visa could be issued, Immigration charged RM450 for "Journey Performed" so that I wouldnt have to go out and get it from the Malaysian Embassy in my country. Has "Journey Performed" been abandoned under 2016 rules?

cvco wrote:

I dont think it can be called a scam when a legit employer is just trying to get something for nothing by circumventing or bending the rules. He is still offering the job. SCAM to me refers to someone taking money under the promise of a job that never materializes because there never was a real job or real employer. When its a real scam, has anyone ever heard of such people ever being brought to justice? I havent. The true scammers, and who operate in Malaysia, need to be identified so people can see who they are and get the people into jail.

Im not sure how to answer the question of what processes MUST occur inside OR outside Malaysia. Long ago when my own company decided to hire me, i was already in KL. Everything was processed here. Since even then there was the requirement of first being outside the country before a visa could be issued, Immigration charged RM450 for "Journey Performed" so that I wouldnt have to go out and get it from the Malaysian Embassy in my country. Has "Journey Performed" been abandoned under 2016 rules?

My opinion would be if they fail to disclose such important information in advance, only to find out info in later stage that might affect my initial decision, feels like a scam to me.

magkev wrote:

My opinion would be if they fail to disclose such important information in advance, only to find out info in later stage that might affect my initial decision, feels like a scam to me.

Do we have to define scam? I think the word is thrown around so loosely as a catch-all for all the ills of the world. A scam is "Send me $10 and I send you a glass bowl." You send the $10 but never get the bowl because there never was one. The seller runs away laughing, end of story. Though a scam is deceitful, not everything deceitful is a scam. A scam is a particular kind of intention to lie, to get you to make a decision in a certain direction you would not otherwise make if you knew the truth. If a seller or employer states out a set of info and you comply, and the information was wrong, it CAN be an honest mistake or there CAN be another explanation other than the purposeful intention to deceive. Maybe the employer didnt know all the laws or rules or proper practices but fully intended to offer a job as stated. Then its a matter of working out the problems between two otherwise honest people.

Scams are called an art, as in scam artist, because scams normally involve a complicated and convoluted and confusing set of lies that are intended from the start to fool someone, like Nigerian banking deals. I remember when the i-phone first came out, Ebay was offering i-phones at absurdly low prices. You sent the $500 and never heard from the seller again. Employment scams are all types, notably the "Give me $250 and i can get you a job at any hotel, visa and pretty wife included, super high salary and overly generous benefits. Just follow a few simple steps after you send me the cash. A free new car is also included for early birds." Thats a pure scam, not even a simple case of cheating.

People say scam for everything and use the word very improperly. Scam only means one thing, everything else is cheating or lies or deceits or dishonesty or mistakes or frauds. Sometimes employment offers are in fact scams. Other times, and most other times, the offers involve dumb, stupid, uninformed, ignorant people who should have educated themselves before offering jobs to foreigners. It just depends. So go slowly and take on research yourself (you the whole public).

"Maybe the employer didnt know all the laws or rules or proper practices but fully intended to offer a job as stated. Then its a matter of working out the problems between two otherwise honest people."

The issue is that up until now there has been no deterrent or real punishment for "employers" who break the rules. The ones that suffer are the people they dupe into working for them.

The new government entitiies are now arresting employers and illegal staff. Jail, fines, deportation await.

IMMIGRATION SCAM

He is an Indian. Seems like from Hyderabad India. He snatched 2500 USD and ran away. He is not the only one. He is one of them in the gang. They will approach you online. This guy ran away from Thailand last day and seems like he have visa in other south asian countries such as Malaysia.

If any one see him please reply here.

Please note : If you need work visa go through proper channel. I think no embassy accept visa fees in hard currency. If you need visa approach the country embassy in your home country.

INDIANS Please aware

Don't Get Cheated

Commercial Crime can be reported here http://ccid.my/en/contacts/

Gravitas,

I never defend dishonest employers, those that meant to cheat or somehow take advantage of employees and the system as well. There are plenty of them and they do eventually get caught. Of course, its bad for the employee too because too often the government holds the employee to the same standard, meaning that the employee can be guilty because he was willingly part of the fraud. Thats why they have a compound schedule for both worker and boss.

I have met employers who simply do not know the rules and make no effort to learn them. They operate as though its still 1950 and they learn the hard way, I guess. Are they guilty of a crime? Yes, but I wouldnt call that fraud or a scam. Its an honest crime.

Another class of criminal is what Malaysia has been guilty of a million times. The worker comes, gets a proper visa, everything correct and proper and goes to work. Come salary time, the boss makes an excuse why they cant pay today---waiting for checks to clear, check signer out of the country, come back tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes and when the workers get uppity, the boss sacks them all. Without resources, they leave Malaysia at some point. This happened to my brother when he went to teach English in Korea 20 years ago. After six months of lies and excuses about late salary, he got a group together to go meet the boss on a "you pay me or you die" basis but the offices were shut and vacant. These are true scams, there was never the intention to pay anyone a salary. And the police or immigration cant help because nothing was improperly done. Its only a matter for courts and lawyers and very few people who have salary of RM20,000 coming will spend RM20,000 for a lawyer to go fetch it. Game complete!

I think I said it 10 years ago in a thread, I wouldnt take any job in this country without first having PROOF of the company's ability and resources to pay me. At the end of the day, no matter what the bumpy road in the paperwork and dodgy intentions, the proof of a scam is whether I got paid or not.  What else matters? Without seeing proof of ability to pay, the worker really wont know if something is a scam or not until time has passed on the job. Therein lies the gamble that many people cant afford.

Does that mean one cannot hire a Filipino helper who is already in Malaysia?
How can we ensure they are allowed to work as a domestic helper in Malaysia?

work visas are not transferable to another employer. You would need to apply for a foreign helper visa yourself

is there any  ways to find out if the position or the company is legit before attending interviews?

Well, you can confirm its a real company by looking at the government website but as for the position, youd have to find a landline number and call and ask for the HR Dept which might be the same person you contacted before. So i think its best to just go to the interview and see everything at the same time.

Somehow Im reminded of an old experience. A Malaysian magazine advertised for an Editor and I was curious because of the topic of the magazine. I went to an interview and learned what they called an "editor" was actually someone to travel back and forth to Singapore to take photos and write original stories for the magazine. That doesnt sound like any sort of definition of "editor" I ever heard of. The best part was the salary--the company said they had no money to pay salary but could pay me after the stories I wrote created much success for the company. Oh, and I had to also cover all my own expenses for travel and wait minimum one year before discussing compensation again. I was wondering if I should slap the guy or what. When he saw me heading for the door, he shouted out, "please dont go! we really need you! we cant find anyone to take the job!" I laughed so hard I nearly fell down.

You see my point, you can research all you want but you wont know anything until you both get there and also actually start on the job. Most people I know started jobs and were given tasks and duties never once discussed in the interviews. I wont say that all employers lie but many do and they dont even care.

Independently look up the company (beware of fake websites) and check the name of the HR manager and call them using a number you found yourself. Check if legit job or interviewer that way. Most scams are not sophisticated but a few are eg complete fake websites.

Never pay money up front for a job. If you do its a scam 100% certain.

Check on an appropriate forum and ask about the company.

Beware of gmail etc accounts. A proper company has proper emails.

Use goofle scam + name.

If its sounds too good to be true.... eg high salary. Then it is.

Ive said it 1000 times, if you want a scam-free life here, stop answering adverts. Identify the companies where your skills can best be applied and contact the companies directly and ask for an interview. If they wont give you an interview, then there is no job at this moment and move on to the next company. If you exhaust the list of all the companies in Malaysia without even getting an interview, thats your answer. Wait six months and try again or forget it and consider other countries.

Most job scams are not in the Professional Sector but are in the Foreign Worker sector or lower-paid positions through Agents in own country connecting to agents in Malaysia. Just take a look at the FWCMS website and the labour providers are listed. Anyone can impersonate those Agents. The scams are on many levels and of different types. The issue is that from this Forum its obvious there are a handful of companies which have been reported here more than once. But they remain protected as there is no mechanism to report them. The people who have be scammed don't do anything about it and just want to fend for themselves. It has even been reported that Embassies have advised against reporting companies who abuse the immigration rules.

yes

Dear Madam,

I am Selva from INDIA .... I have paid some initial amount too a consultancy located in Coimbatore, tamilnadu, India..

They have send me the screenshot of online update of my documents but i didn't get any approval letter from them... Is it possible to get updated in online without approval letter?? or they didn't send me the letter of approval...

Kindly please give me some suggestion to short out this query...

Best Regards
Selvakumar

My uncle got cheated by one small restaurant owner in Johor. They took his passport and not given any legal id card to work as well. He wanted to come back to india but owner is not allowing him to go. He can't even go outside of his hotel and room. I want to bring him back to India. Could you please le the know the procedure.

ilovetravellingAW, why dont you go to the police in Johor and report that your uncle is being held hostage in a restaurant? Have you alerted the immigration department about this as well?

RAJSELVAKUMAR, you havent provided enough information to get advice from the group.