Expatriate or Traitor?

Well I think expats are drawn to each other in foreign countries for the primary reason that they speak the same native language,

Even after being in a foreign country for an extended period of time, for most adults, especially older adults, it takes years to reach any fluency in a foreign language. It's comforting to be able to just sit down and easily talk to somebody in your native lingo without constantly searching for words and consciously constructing what you want to say in a foreign language. That becomes exhausting.

Be an adventurer. Be an expat. Live where you want. I hope the experience gives you a better idea what immigrants go through when they move to your home country and feel stereotyped and marginalized.

Most people in this world are just looking to get along and get by as best they can. As long as you're a good neighbor mostly nobody cares where you hailed from.

Traitor??? Hell no! There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a new adventure in life, and there's nothing wrong with deciding to expatriate either, while it may not be everyone's cup of tea. The only way that one could even remotely consider an expat a traitor is if they moved to a hostile nation and began sharing sensitive information with authorities who might then use it against the expat's homeland in some way. That certainly is NOT the case with expats moving to Ecuador. Certainy none of the Americans or Canadians that already live permanently in EC would feel that way about themselves and none of the rest of us think that way about them either.

Traditionally we North Americans (and probably most developed country expats) take up permanent residence in South and Central American countries for a variety of reasons. One of the main reasons is financial. With the high cost of living many approaching or contemplating retirement know that staying put will mean their buying power, and thus their lifestyle, will be diminished following retirement. They simply want to find a place where they can retire comfortably and make the very most of what they've worked for so hard their entire adult lives. Nothing at all unpatriotic about that.

For others still it's purely lifestyle and the people, perhaps they've visited a particular country and like the laid-back atmosphere and the people. Different cultures can really be appealing.

For yet others the move may be prompted for health reasons so they seek out warmer climates where they won't be so subject to the frailties that not-so-young body of theirs may experience.

Most North Americans who choose South and Central American countries also do so for the relatively close proximity and the ease and cost of travel back home for visits, which is always an important consideration in expatriating anywhere.

Still for others it may be matters of the heart that bring about the move, they meet and want to marry a citizen of that country. Whatever the reason, they're all valid and they're all perfectly fine reasons for doing so.

Expatriating is not like simply visiting a country as a tourist, not by a long shot. It comes with it's own set of problems, concerns and bureaucracy all of which must be carefully sorted through, analyzed beforehand (hopefully). You really can't even begin to get the feel for a country until you've lived there for an extended period of time, so most tourists only scratch the surface on a short vacation.

Regarding the "Birds of a feather" aspect, that's common to all of us. That's your rock and foundation, when we're somewhere strange and new we all will seek out something familiar and comfortable. For most of us that's our fellow countrymen. Some ethnic groups are even much more known for that than we Westerners are, some wouldn't even consider straying outside their own culltural or ethnic group at all. They're always the ones who suffer most.

My astute friend gardener1 hit the nail right on the head with the comments on taking years to acquire sufficient fluency in order to really feel like you fit in and to become completely comfortable in a non-English speaking environment. That is also one of the reason we "birds" do really tend to flock together. I was very fortunate in that I learned Portuguese before coming to Brazil 14 years ago, arrived here with an advanced level of fluency and continued to improve those skills ever since. That put me at a great advantage since it made it so much easier to stray outside of that very comfortable English only group that most rely on and begin making friendships with locals right from day one. Learning as much Spanish as possible before travelling is something I'd recommend strongly to anyone considering a move to any of the other South and Central American countries, it pays off in big benefits.

I don't know if you've ever been to Ecuador, but do go even if just to check it out. If possible stay for an extended period to see if it's a fit for you, and more importantly if you're a fit for it. Enjoy yourself, have that adventure and leave any "traitor" thoughts far behind you, nothing could be further from the truth. Good luck with the adventure!

Cheers,
James
expat.com Experts Team

Please remember that most USA expats, the exceptions being multimillionaires  for tax purposes, maintain their USA citizenship.  This means they get to keep reporting and paying USA income taxes on their world wide income.  So economically they are as patriotic as those living in the USA.  In addition medicare is useless outside the USA, so a great medical insurance subsidized by the taxpayers is given up unless one maintains the coverage and returns to the USA for medical procedures.  By maintaining your USA passport you are on permanent vacation.  Some places allow dual citizenship, so one can have the privileges and obligations of both countries.

Not sure if this helps or not. For me the definition of an Expatriate is someone who lives outside of their native country. It has nothing to do with Patriotism. We love our country, however at this time we choose to live and enjoy our adventure in Ecuador

dfcordero wrote:

an Expatriate is someone who lives outside of their native country. It has nothing to do with Patriotism. We love our country, however at this time we choose to live and enjoy our adventure in Ecuador

That's right, DC, keep it simple, don't overcomplicate.

Using the term that made this website famous, just say Expat.

cccmedia in Quito

Expats from anywhere but the USA, like Canada, are probably gonna take another hit on the dollars exchange rate because of the rise in the fed rate means a stronger US dollar.  And if things go well you will see more increases in 2016.  This is good for USA tourists in other countries, as the dollar will be worth more while it remains the same in Ecuador.  We are not talking big numbers here, but rather a look to the future.

mugtech wrote:

Expats from anywhere but the USA, like Canada, are probably gonna take another hit on the dollars exchange rate because of the rise in the fed rate means a stronger US dollar.  And if things go well you will see more increases in 2016.  This is good for USA tourists in other countries, as the dollar will be worth more while it remains the same in Ecuador.  We are not talking big numbers here, but rather a look to the future.

That seems like a pretty accurate statement. Funny how it was just a few years ago that so many were proclaiming the end of the U.S. dollar, gold would be $4000-5000 an ounce, and oil would be at $150-200 a barrel. Looks like the U.S. dollar is doing just fine. Gold is at roughly $1050 an ounce, and oil is at roughly $35 a barrel. Hope there weren't many that followed the doomsayers advice, and put all their money in gold, and oil.

Funny how people like j600rr get a warm fuzzy feeling about the dollar when the national debt is approaching $20 trillion, the interest payment on that debt (especially with rising interest rates) will overwhelm the treasury, and savings are at an all-time low due to the Fed's stranglehold on free market economics.  Those of us who invested in gold when it was $250 an ounce or even $800 an ounce, and made other prudent investments outside the dollar, are shaking our heads in disbelief that so many are still drinking the strong dollar kool aid.

mikelove wrote:

Funny how people like j600rr get a warm fuzzy feeling about the dollar when the national debt is approaching $20 trillion, the interest payment on that debt (especially with rising interest rates) will overwhelm the treasury, and savings are at an all-time low due to the Fed's stranglehold on free market economics.  Those of us who invested in gold when it was $250 an ounce or even $800 an ounce, and made other prudent investments outside the dollar, are shaking our heads in disbelief that so many are still drinking the strong dollar kool aid.

Hardly think I'm drinking the kool aid. If you would have read any of my posts in different threads, you would know that I own gold, silver, as well as other investments, and also a fair amount of land outside of the U.S. Have also consistentely criticized the pure incompetence of the Feds, and the U.S. Government. Am far from a fan of the economic decisions the U.S. has made over the last 30-40 years. That doesn't change the fact that the dollar hasn't tanked, and gold is nowhere near an all time high as has been predicted with religious fervor over the past 10 years by many. Certainly owning gold (unless bought at $1900 an ounce has been a reasonable return for many.) Of course that's when many people were buying. Could the U.S. dollar lose it's reserve status, and tank, and could gold soar? Sure. So one devises a balanced portfolio of assets if that were to happen, and you still come out the other side fine. It's not really rocket science.

mikelove wrote:

Funny how people like j600rr get a warm fuzzy feeling about the dollar when the national debt is approaching $20 trillion, the interest payment on that debt (especially with rising interest rates) will overwhelm the treasury, and savings are at an all-time low due to the Fed's stranglehold on free market economics.  Those of us who invested in gold when it was $250 an ounce or even $800 an ounce, and made other prudent investments outside the dollar, are shaking our heads in disbelief that so many are still drinking the strong dollar kool aid.

Ask a Canadian economic refugee living in Ecuador how the US - Canadian dollar exchange has affected his ability to pay his bills.  A majority of economic refugees cannot afford something like gold, even in their teeth.

I want to reply about a post above and expats and birds of a feather.

Im interested in Ecuador and am exploring moving. Im from US but have been in Malaysia for the past 16 years. I was never once called an expat, never once had any expat friends. From the first day I sought out locals and its been that way ever since. I seldom cook any western meals, am friends with all races and religions, and  I only know about other foreigners because of the expat forums, like now with you.

That said, most expats I know in the forums include in their research being able to land in a new country and be met by other expats right from the start. They are fearful about jumping in and while thats understandable, they seem to never grow out of it. They only have expat friends, go to expat bars to meet more expats, seldom try local food more than once. I know at least one american family who ships in all american groceries and goods, never entertains locals, never joins local clubs or events or even bother to learn two words of the local language. They stay to themselves and their little expat coffee klutches.

I personally dont know why anyone would voluntarily move to a new country and then to maintain their old life.  Its annoying that they go up and down the forums looking for other expats but never once ask how to meet locals and get involved. I wouldnt even comment about that except for the fact the locals are annoyed too. Shunning them is the same as looking down to them and they resent it. Dont foreigners know they need local cooperation to get stuff done? You think that the local you just shunned knowing wants to help you?  I wont preach, its up to you, but if you want the time and effort to be fulfilling, you have to dive in with both feet. Yes, compare info, get info from expats about stuff but dont let your life in a new place be defined by how your expat friends see it. Yes, get some info but have your experiences with locals. It makes all the difference on that road traveled.

And about traitors, its 50/50. Many people back home call me a traitor but i can see plainly its envy. They are stuck, or perceive themselves to be stuck and so they curse me for their own inability to leave. Others do see your move as a form of their abandonment and they feel resent. Being an expat doesnt bring out the best in those you left behind, including ones family, but this fact has never guiltily weighed on any of my decisions. If I want to put it they way they callously put it to me, ok fine, for every five of you i lost i gained 20 replacements.  What do you think of that?

Excuse the rant. The post back there touched a nerve. I wish everyone a great and wonderful life in their new home regardless of how its done.

Yes, expats have the choice of living their life as they choose.  Nothing in the permanent resident visa says they must immerse themselves in the local culture,  it is a choice.  No one is any better or worse for how much they integrate or isolate.  If you are still a US citizen paying US taxes, then you are doing the USA a favor by not living in the USA, not competing for jobs, services or housing.  Of course there are many ethnic neighborhoods in the USA, so why not do the same in another country.  The reason many move to Ecuador is for the climate in a place where life is cheaper.  If they are not breaking any laws, who are we to judge the economic refugees?

Mugtech,

Im not disagreeing with you but I wasnt talking about why anyone would migrate but only that they will find their life more fulfilling the more they integrate in the new place. Thats all.

In this website, if you follow the posts among the many countries listed, you will find a common thread, a vein that implies unhappiness or disgruntledness like:
1) i dont really like the food
2) I dont really care to make local friends
3) wheres an expat club and pub?
4) do any expats want to meet up this weekend--and every weekend?
5) Why dont they do things the american way, the AU way, the real way, etc?
6) The government is so stupid, *I* know a better way.

In the US, my experience has been that locals dislike or even fear the Viet, Chinese, Somalis, etc who have migrated to the US and part of their complaint is that they say the Viet, etc:
1) stay to themselves
2) read their own newspapers
3) have similar friends
4) take over neighborhoods
5) make their own grocery stores, etc
6) keep their own language and dont learn English well.

The complainers ask why should they come and not integrate? Why do they keep to themselves? Why dont they learn the language and we can be friends? But the same complainers will go to a foreign country and do exactly the same and dont want to be criticized for it.

As an expat yes that attitude annoys me. I knew when I came here I was the guest, I have to accept and integrate, the locals do not have to bend to me. As result I was also happier for it and made friends and got along and all is good. The more I try to push back as a whinging pom, the more unhappy i would surely be. Personally, myself, IMHO, i think an expat has an obligation to integrate wherever they are. After all, they aint in Kansas anymore so get over it. But WHY someone migrates? I couldnt care less the 10,000 reasons, what happens after they do is the issue.

Wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas!

cvco wrote:

I have to accept and integrate, the locals do not have to bend to me. As result I was also happier for it and made friends and got along and all is good. The more I try to push back as a whinging pom, the more unhappy i would surely be.

That term was "Greek to me," so no surprise the poster is Greek.

From the Urban Dictionary....

whingeing pom  Pronounced Win-jin-pom
(can be 'spelt' with or without the "e")

A slightly racist but joking term used to describe people from the United Kingdom.  Founded in Australia and is used regularly to describe British tourists or anyone British who has anything even slightly negative to say.

Example....

Pom:  It's bloody hot here in Australia.

Aussie:  Go back home where you came from, you whingeing pom.

-- cccmedia in Quito

Yeah....actually whinging pom was new to me too but nobody would explain it. Eventually I deduced that a whinging pom was someone who goes to a foreign place and complains when things arent the same as in their home countries. "Why dont they do things like im used to??"

This always brings back laughing memories of that movie, forgot the name, where the tourist character asks, "how much is that in real money?"

By golly, you guys made me finally figure out how to properly answer the OP.

If you dont want to be called an expat, dont act like one!

I did it! One line, no long windedness. Thanks guys!

cvco wrote:

This always brings back laughing memories of that movie, forgot the name, where the tourist character asks, "how much is that in real money?"

I didn't find that movie-name, either, on a post called "The Top 95 Most Hilarious Quotes About Money" at www.goodfinancialcents.com/funny-money- … l-sayings/

However, I did spot this quote there....

"Cocaine is God's way of saying you're making too much money."

    -- Robin Williams (1951-2014)


Note to trivia lovers:  CVCO is the NASDAQ ticker symbol for Cavco Industries.


                     .

cvco wrote:

Mugtech,


As an expat yes that attitude annoys me. I knew when I came here I was the guest, I have to accept and integrate, the locals do not have to bend to me. As result I was also happier for it and made friends and got along and all is good. The more I try to push back as a whinging pom, the more unhappy i would surely be. Personally, myself, IMHO, i think an expat has an obligation to integrate wherever they are. After all, they aint in Kansas anymore so get over it. But WHY someone migrates? I couldnt care less the 10,000 reasons, what happens after they do is the issue.

Wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas!

You were not a guest, you were a tourist then a permanent resident.  Here we have guests all the time, and we don't charge them rent, try to sell them a house.  We do feed them and don't charge them for transportation.  When we visit others we are treated the same way, as guests. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!            So everyone who migrates to Ecuador should join a Christian church?

mugtech wrote:

cvco wrote:

Mugtech,


As an expat yes that attitude annoys me. I knew when I came here I was the guest, I have to accept and integrate, the locals do not have to bend to me. As result I was also happier for it and made friends and got along and all is good. The more I try to push back as a whinging pom, the more unhappy i would surely be. Personally, myself, IMHO, i think an expat has an obligation to integrate wherever they are. After all, they aint in Kansas anymore so get over it. But WHY someone migrates? I couldnt care less the 10,000 reasons, what happens after they do is the issue.

Wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas!

You were not a guest, you were a tourist then a permanent resident.  Here we have guests all the time, and we don't charge them rent, try to sell them a house.  We do feed them and don't charge them for transportation.  When we visit others we are treated the same way, as guests. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!            So everyone who migrates to Ecuador should join a Christian church?

The term guest just refers to the fact that its not my country and it makes sense since I dont enjoy citizen rights, cant vote, am treated forever differently as an outsider. In the US we wouldnt say anyone is a guest unless they are truly a guest, we dont say that about someone having a green card, for example. In Asia, when police used the word against me, to remind me of something, i agreed, and nobody disputed that later when I called myself a guest. They deemed it very respectful and that I wasnt trying to take over their country. Im not likely to say, Hey i have residency so GTH!

Its been my lifelong tradition to wish everyone Merry Christmas at Christmastime. It has nothing to do with the idea that someone should join anyones religion in a foreign country, of course that would never be expected of and by anyone. All through December people said it to me without knowing if I even had a religion, I accepted it with thanks. On New Years, we all exchanged NY greetings even though 70% of the country doesnt follow that calendar. I appreciated their sense of politeness, it doesnt mean I as an expat have to join whatever they are, Buddhist, Muslim, etc.

Hope that clears it up.