Recorded Delivery Post

fidobsa wrote:

I need to renew my passport, which involves sending the old passport, new photos and 8 pages of forms to a centralised passport office in Germany.....

I had the same problem. If you are not in a rush, I advise you to do it in the UK when you are there next. You don't have to wait until the existing passport is close to expiry. You can renew anytime. That nonsense with outsourced passport issuers in Duesseldorf is a very poor service indeed. Unless you pay for the courier, they will send it back in the ordinary post.

It expires in 2 days time

fidobsa wrote:

It expires in 2 days time

Ooops!

Some countries want a minimum of 6 months validity when entering, so they never go past their 10 year validity for me. I always have to do it several years beforehand as the large sized 48-page one is not big enough for many giant visa stickers and enormous stamps operated by careless border stampers wasting pages. My passports usually end up falling to bits.

You could always ask HMG to give you two passports. They will give you one if you say you want to travel to say, Israel and say, Saudi.

Since June I have been expecting to have to go to UK at some point and I would have sorted it when over there but time has marched on and uncertainties have not been resolved so I didn't go. Until the new one comes I can't draw money from my Hungarian bank account, go for day trips to Croatia or Slovenia or check in to most hotels.

fidobsa wrote:

....Until the new one comes I can't draw money from my Hungarian bank account,....

I had an argument in my bank over my expired passport. I mean, it's still me in the passport, so it should not invalidate withdrawals regardless of validity of the document. If they accepted it once, they should continue to accept it even if it ran out. It doesn't make sense. Eventually they gave in.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Eventually they gave in.

That just proves you are good at persuading people :-)

The expired document is less secure and should not be accepted for a number of reasons:
- It is not a valid document with any legal backing: forging one is not even a crime.
- A lost or stolen one is not reported, won't make it to any blacklist.
- The physical security features (watermarks, etc) get worn or damaged over time
- Technological progress obsoletes the security features even if in pristine condition.

Still, you should punch a hole in the expired one. Especially when in Eastern Europe :-)

szocske wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Eventually they gave in.

That just proves you are good at persuading people :-)

The expired document is less secure and should not be accepted for a number of reasons:
- It is not a valid document with any legal backing: forging one is not even a crime.
- A lost or stolen one is not reported, won't make it to any blacklist.
- The physical security features (watermarks, etc) get worn or damaged over time
- Technological progress obsoletes the security features even if in pristine condition.

Still, you should punch a hole in the expired one. Especially when in Eastern Europe :-)

I think using an expired document or forging one or anything else is likely to be a crime if it is used or intended to be used for deception.

In the case I was referring to, they already knew me in the bank, so it was hardly a major risk. I eventually solved hassles at the bank by giving Mrs Fluffy signing rights so she could go instead of me.

I have an idea that an expired passport is still OK for ID in the UK so long as the photo matches. Might be wrong.

Not sure why a hole in a passport makes any difference. HMG chops off the corners.

fluffy2560 wrote:

fidobsa wrote:

I need to renew my passport, which involves sending the old passport, new photos and 8 pages of forms to a centralised passport office in Germany.....

...Duesseldorf is a very poor service indeed. Unless you pay for the courier, they will send it back in the ordinary post.

Uh, 'ordinary post' am I the only one for whom this rings an emergency bell?!?!

In Germany, postal service is indeed extremely reliable, I have heard of some embassy sending passports around as letters.
Perhaps you have realised: This is *not* germany, and as we discussed it recently, Magyar posta has a terrible record of stolen('lost') packages. Even though I could not find any statistics (why?), a quick internet search showed that I was not the only one who's item was stolen.(An old fritzbox router in original packaging sent as simple letter, with no tracking:(
Even though I am not sure how the risks are if it looks more like a letter, I would classify 'sending passport to hungary by ordinary post' with no tracking or insurance as asking for trouble.

Generally, sending post from Ger to Hu involves the Deutsche Post transporting stuff to Budapest and handing it over to Magyar Posta. We (my family) generally assume that it is this transit point where stealing goods has evolved into a 'regular' business.
It is, of course, safer to use private services like UPS, DHL, DPD etc. if they don't involve hungarian post (I m not sure if some of them do).
BUT be aware of one complication:
Deutsche Post has bought DHL years ago and now *within Germany* DHL is the brand for Deutsche Post's package delivery system (as opposed to letters). I.e. they will still hand it over to the Hungarians at some point.
According to my understanding, you can still buy the good old DHL service, it is branded as 'DHL express', but you better check if they hand things over to the foreign postal service or not.
http://www.dhl.de/en.html

Of course I do assume that the more advanced products of the postal system involving tracking and/or insurance are safer, perhaps because the mentioned maffia does not want insurance companies to fight them - or, well, who knows, that's all just guessing.
If someone has more accurate information, on this safety matters, I am interested, too.

To close this long post with a nice story: when my father was forced to have some nice electronics sent to Hungary (second hand, so no replacement possible), he went to that central transit point where Magyar Posta receives stuff, and used charm & chocolate to get the ladies into setting the stuff aside for him to personally pick it up. Perhaps slightly paranoid, but he has lived here for 60+ years and knowns his way around.

It would not be the end of the world if my expired passport gets stolen, it will just delay things. It is recorded delivery so they might be able to track it. It is also no doubt somewhat more difficult for me to send something by DHL than for someone living in Budapest who could pop in to their local depot.

I was more referring to the opposite direction, I understood from one post, the Embassy would be sending your new passport to Hungary 'by ordinary mail'. I think, locals intuitively expect the direction West->Hu  to contain valuables.
DHL does not really enter in that last story. I just wrote it down as a kind of infotainment.

No, the 199 Euros includes 27 Euros to return my passport by DHL. I would hope for that money a DHL van comes to my house and the driver gets me to sign for the package.

fidobsa wrote:

... something by DHL than for someone living in Budapest who could pop in to their local depot.

You could use UPS. They are expensive but they will do pick up and you can book online. I've never found anyone to be more consistently available everywhere in the world than UPS. I was never very impressed with DHL (VERY expensive) and particularly, very unimpressed by Fedex (poor presence in Europe).

fidobsa wrote:

No, the 199 Euros includes 27 Euros to return my passport by DHL. I would hope for that money a DHL van comes to my house and the driver gets me to sign for the package.

I worked on a project once which involved passport production. "Blank passports" back then (2006) cost under £10.

Shows how much HMG is ripping us all off.

And I am sure they could have negotiated the 27 EUR to less than 10 EUR.

fidobsa wrote:

No, the 199 Euros includes 27 Euros to return my passport by DHL. I would hope for that money a DHL van comes to my house and the driver gets me to sign for the package.

Outch, perhaps even a Limousine?
27eur is a lot for a passport-sized item, so it should be at least reasonably well guarded.

A straightforward approach would be to try to learn the precise name of the DHL product they use, and the DHL website surely gives you some details, e.g whether it is within the 'normal' DHL brand or 'DHL express'. They also have a hotline where you may be able to ask questions like 'will my package be touched by hungarian post?'.
By the way there is also this german-french company  http://www.dpd.co.uk/

fluffy2560 wrote:

I've never found anyone to be more consistently available everywhere in the world than UPS. I was never very impressed with DHL...

Never had had a problem with UPS, been using them for over 20 years. They are indeed expensive, but you get what you pay for. For my money, if I want to be sure a package arrives they are the way to go.

Agree with DHL. And you are not the only one. There is even a web site www.dhlsucks.net. They held a letter of mine in Budapest for 3 weeks and did not deliver it or call about the delay (my phone number was even on the package). I now refuse to use them.

Mailing Karma does seem to vary here with different people. I have never had Magyar Post loose a letter or package from Germany, US, Italy or within Hungary (yet --- cross fingers, knock on wood).

fidobsa wrote:

do I have to put my own name & address on the envelope somewhere?

I always put on the return address on the outside, no matter which company I have do the mailing. If the mail is not deliverable for some reason, it is the only way it can be returned to you without requiring someone to open the letter.

klsallee wrote:

.... I have never had Magyar Post loose a letter or package from Germany, US, Italy or within Hungary (yet --- cross fingers, knock on wood).

Oh, now you've done it.  It's like washing your car in the sunshine. It'll make it rain.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Oh, now you've done it.

Darn. You are right. I tempted cosmic forces. I am in for it now.....