Racism? - Hugely Disappointed

Flip,

I can't believe you are still struggling with the knife.  What are they doing, giving you breast implants?  Or...  Never mind!  You kinky, oldman!!!

Howie - - - SHUT UP !  

YOU CHEEKY YOUNG MAN !

One day, if you're lucky (or unlucky) you might find yourself ancient and decrepit enough in need of the same sort of surgery !

One very easy one done yesterday - two more risky ones to go.
Worst of all - I've missed out on the Tet celebrations this year.

When that happens, IF I'm still around, it'll be my turn to laugh.

If not, my kids or grand-kids can do the laughing for me.

Take care mate.

P. S. - NOTHING kinky about me (much)   Ask my wife - - NO ! On second thoughts, don't ask her anything like that at all !

Just took too long to wake up to the fact the Viet Nam is a wonderful place to live and if you're lucky enough to find the right lady - a Vietnamese wife is the BEST in the whole world !

It's sad to hear something like this, back then when I was in Vietnam i myself was very racist: Black = gangsters; White = money bags; middle eastern people = terrorists. However, not all of us are like that, stereotypes are held by almost all Vietnamese, but they don't express it, however it's much easier to turn it completely opposite compared to the US.

The government is on your side, our country is still developing, which means it need a lot of foreigners to help, and you are one. Those Viets who live there are expected to know the laws and won't be given any sort of special treatments for breaking them. You are supposed to be treated nicely, because you are here to help, if it happens again flip them off, many expats and tourists are scared because they think nobody is on their side, wrong the government is on yours. Back then whenever something involved a foreigner, most people will try to smooth it out unless calling the police is the last resort.

For the eye contact, Vietnamese are supposed to not look into others' eyes when they are conversing with them. It's intimidating and commanding to the people you are talking with in our culture, and I've found that many people in US tend to treat to the person they just met as if they've been good friends, well not for us.

Shop owners in Vietnam tend to act like jackasses, they treated me the same way they have done to you, so don't worry. It's just that they expect you to buy only, not browsing or trying their stuff. If you look like you are not there to buy right away, that's most likely what they are going to do. Sorry for my bad English.

Hello everyone,

I'm in Thailand and facing a lot of racist gestures and mistreatment. I'm here to study and attending a university which is actually affiliated with the royal family. The saddest thing is that I'm experiencing these things right within the university.

As some might already know by now (or would later know - if they would really want to find out), I'm well aware of these issues' existence in Thailand. But I never thought that it would exist in the university. I can accept, tolerate and understand these things out on the road where people are, generally, not so very well educated. But not inside a university.

The Thai people are so obsessed with white skins. One Western person who've lived in Thailand for a long time has very clearly described as to how obsessed they for white skin. That person have said that the Thais want their skin  as pure white - just like white paint. I'm not kidding - you can Google for the truth by using the key words from here. Now, that's about their own complexion.

When it comes to foreigners with a darker complexion most Thais would really show it on their faces, mannerisms and speech. Frowns, rude gestures, change their walking course as if to avoid some rubbish, deliberately sell a service/product with inferior quality (by this time you have been subjected to many of their 'rejectedness' so as to you wouldn't simply have the guts/self-esteem/confidence to protest for your right), etc.

Neither am I a racist nor jealous about Westerners but they simply wouldn't notice these things as they wouldn't get into these situation or even ponder about it. As I have many Western friends as long as I'm with them I don't encounter the above mentioned mistreatment.. Yet when I'm alone I do.

There were a couple of times where I was ill-treated right in front of one of my good friends from England. We both were on a long tour on a train stopping to almost every province until it came to the last one. And while at last destination these happened. My friend was surprised and more angry than me. Of course he didn't even think it was in existence until he saw it with his own eyes.

THIS PART IS A LONGER PART WHICH YOU CAN SKIP -
One incident was right in the DTAC Centre (the famous mobile operator in Thailand). As our phones' signals were having issues after the long trip, we both went there to get them fixed. As my friend was over sixties or so I used to lead the way when walking. So it was I who first entered the centre and I could see the immediate frowns appearing on all the supposedly "thousand smiles from the Land of Smiles". I approached to one of the staff and was about to open my mouth the staff who was right in front of me just fled to someone else coming behind me and I can see her face all lit up with a smile - so went with the rest of the other staff. I turned to see who they were all so interested so much. Alas, it was my very own English friend whom they were all running about to serve. Of course, my friend who always relies on me when it comes to IT or telecommunication knowledge directed them to me. Now that's should be a laugh. NO! I was boiling with anger. For twenty four hours our phones were out of range and we both were in a very dangerous zone in Thailand where people and places get blown-up. Our friends (who've warned us not to go on that trip) and our families had no idea where were and every minute is very precious to us. And these racist idiots didn't realise they were representing one of the best companies in Thailand and they were a telecommunications company. I gave bloody hell of a lecture as to what they did learn at the universities they went.

Another incident was similar where the others thought that I was alone and said something rude towards me mentioning about my complexion and associating me with a nationality to which I'm not. The only difference in this incident was that, to my surprise, my rather old English friend reacted to it by just poking at the girl's neck saying to stop that and that she was mistaken and that my nationality wasn't what she thought. I wasn't the only one surprised. So was the Chinese Thai lady at the counter who just served my drink. Because I was so far away and minding my own business and just waiting for that girl to walk away so that we could go ahead to get our dinner.
END OF THE LONGER PART

Anyway, I've been a frequent traveler to Thailand and never stayed much longer as I used to be just visiting for travel and shopping. But this time I must stay here for a couple or more years as I'm here to attend to a university. But with all these things happening everyday is something serious. I can't change the 66 millions of Thai peoples' thinking. It's the way how someone thinks that one becomes a racist. As for me I never judge people by their outer looks but by their behavior and manners. When I travel I do try to keep away from certain nationalities with reputedly bad manners yet there are some nice people amongst those nationalities whom I do interact with sometimes.

So, getting back to the topic of Vietnam, I'm thinking about changing to a Vietnamese university and wanted to know if the same issues exist in that country, too. I would appreciate it very much if someone could let me know.

The first question is whether or not stereotyping is 'racism'. If you view it as such, then no place in Asia is the place for you. But if your definition is more nuanced to define it as purposefully rude conduct towards darker skinned people, then Vietnam is among the more accepting Asian countries. Yes, they do stereotype, even among themselves. But (and this is a White's observation) the percentage of people who go out of their way to do so in an unpleasant manner is a small minority.

The second question is: Are you part of the problem? Do you go out with an unconscious chip on your shoulder that makes your "discrimination antenna" go into overdrive? Do you expect special treatment because you are unique? That's a question you can only answer to yourself.

Just throw some money in their face, while saying
U looking down on me bitch...
This is the vietnamese way to sort out this kind of problem.

@adam7171:
Before you disrupt your education too much, you have to realise Thailand is undergoing social disruption at this time. I buy certain manufacturing equipment in Bangkok and have very frank talks with people older than you I do business with and I hear how it is affecting things in their age group.

Have you ever considered the University at Chiang Mai? Check it out. A provincial institution that less 'big city'. They teach in English.

As for VietNam, I have only once experienced unfounded hatred based on race. That was from a very old woman in My Lai. But she was entitled to be that way (Google her village name).

Vietnamese are a very forgiving people, as a whole, especially when you consider what they suffered during the American War in VietNam.

Understand where this colour comes from. It is associated with 'peasant' farmers who toil in the sun all day. Khmer people (from Cambodia) have darker complexions, there are many in the MeKong Delta, but they do suffer discrimination on Ho Chi Minh City. Not in the Delta.

This white skin garbage seems to have been built up over the last few years and the stores, in the cities at least, have quite a selection of whitening products. Try buying ordinary Nivea Creme hand lotion!

But the 'go white' craze only seems to be with females. VNese guys are happy getting tanned, as are Viet Kieu females from overseas.

My VNese wife takes no precautions to reduce sun exposure, and my daughter likes her darker skin saying it looks healthier.

Could be your appearance suggested 'beach bum', not that it excuses the wait staff, and everything associated with 'counting sand'. Some people don't appreciate other cultures infecting theirs.

And of course in the cities in Vietnam, every plastic display figures that model dresses in just about every dress shop is white with Caucasian features. Much the same as Thailand.

You can see girls - it's mainly girls, driving motorbikes with their arms covered to the shoulder and their faces covered with masks and sunglasses. The masks are also to protect then from traffic fumes, but cover most of the face.

I too have been on the receiving end of racial abuse from Vietnamese people occasionally and on one occasion was defended by my 8 year old nephew who gave some uneducated buffoon a good telling off for "speaking about my uncle like that". Whilst we were in a lift. I didn't catch the comment that the man made but my nephew did. And I am white - err, tanned now and kind of pink where the sun doesn't reach.

I'm afraid that you aint going to change it overnight and as things do change you may find that the country goes through a similar evolution as the UK, where you can now be accused of racism just for being "white".

Human nature is human nature and you wont change it.

Whilst I was in the US a couple of years ago (Norfolk, Virginia) I was amazed at the overt hatred and discrimination showed by black youths to white people of all ages. Their parents could be polite and friendly but some of the kids were openly disrespectful. As my host, a senior army officer and an attorney at law commented: "It's OK for them to be racist, but not for us".

Your best weapon against it is to show dignity and restraint and lead by example,

eodmatt wrote:

Your best weapon against it is to show dignity and restraint and lead by example,

Smart advice but I would switch 'restraint' with 'ignore' (the person trying to offend you)

If someone is doing some to deliberately annoy or provoke you, smiling is the best way to deflect the act - often it turns back against the person doing it (psychologically).

Jaitch wrote:

eodmatt wrote:

Your best weapon against it is to show dignity and restraint and lead by example,

Smart advice but I would switch 'restraint' with 'ignore' (the person trying to offend you)

If someone is doing some to deliberately annoy or provoke you, smiling is the best way to deflect the act - often it turns back against the person doing it (psychologically).

Yep, that too (smile).

And, as I found out many years ago in Northern Ireland where there is vehement and violent anti British sentiment in some places - dont go to those places.

"Your best weapon against it is to show dignity and restraint and lead by example,"

Now that is some of the best advice I have seen here. I hope more people will take it to heart.

Although this thread was bumped by a comment that has been deleted, I went back to the first few comments out of curiosity.  My wife used to own a small shop and she used to get upset with me if I wanted to go into a place and "window-shop." 

Apparently Vietnamese shopkeepers are generally superstitious about people entering their shop without at least a serious intent to buy as they feel it brings bad luck that day.  I expect that not having the product asked for would excuse a customer but there is a definite feeling against people "just looking."  The imparting of bad luck is worse if you are the first customer of the day. 

I expect that the shopkeeper who refused service had seen the OP enter and leave more than one shop and wanted to avoid the perceived daily curse.  The fact that the OP was treated kindly by a younger person may be a reflection of a generational change and more contact with westerners by the younger girl.  Of course she was the one who had the good luck in the end.

I'm glad we dont have to listen to the ramblings of Jaitich and Wild One anymore.

Brilliant and well written response. History is key in understanding any country. Our past affects our future. I am constantly amazed how many people have no desire, to research, to delve deeper. Worrying for humananity this. Por fin as John Lennon said, "I'm just sitting here watching the world go by. "

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"Brilliant and well written response. History is key in understanding any country. Our past affects our future. I am constantly amazed how many people have no desire, to research, to delve deeper. Worrying for humananity this. Por fin as John Lennon said, "I'm just sitting here watching the world go by. "

Agreed.   Curiosity is the key
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