Retirement Visa Snag

12/23/23  Does anyone know of a possible workaround given i was approved just not issued the Visa in Brazil. Anything at all I can show at customs,  consulate,  immigration to gain entry any sooner? Thanks!        -@Gerard Nardini

Probably your easiest way is to send someone in Brazil that you trust a Brazilian Power of Attorney -- a Procuração -- to pick up your CRNM at the Federal Police and send it to you.  You'll then be able to re-enter Brazil with your CRNM and your passport.

You could also contact the Brazilian Consulate responsible for your state, describe the situation to them, and ask whether there's a way to return long enough to pick up your CRNM.

If I understand your description correctly, you entered Brazil on a tourist visa (waiver) -- permission from the Foreign Ministry to enter Brazil --  and applied to the Federal Police for an Authorization for Residency based on retirement.  If neither of the ways I described above work for you, the only other way that you can come back in fewer than six months is to change your visa type at the Foreign Ministry's Consulate.  Your options may be:

-- to obtain one of the new e-visas for visitors from your nearest Brazilian Consulate when they begin issuing them in January.  I'm not sure that your last 180 days won't count against you on this visa, but it may be treated as a new visa.

-- to obtain a Retirement Visa (VITEM XIV) from the Consulate, return on that, pick up your CRNM, and just let the visa expire. 

@Gerard Nardini I really hope it works out for you. In the meantime I am one step behind you. I applied through my lawyers for Permanent Residency via Spouse in May. At the time I had been here past my 180 before I contracted with the lawyers.  It is almost 2024 and I still have not received it. In addition, my wife attempted to call them last week to see what our status was and NO ONE answered the phone. My wife and I live in North eastern Brazil and are 6 hours away from the Lawyers and Federal Police in Fortaleza.

How long did it take you to get your Visa?

Roddie in Retirement

@roddiesho

i used a lawyer and it took about 3 months after all the required paperwork, notarizing,  translation service.

@Gerard Nardini Thanx for the response. So far it has taken at least twice as long for me and we are now going into another year. We also hired lawyers, but unfortunately we did not ask, the ~How long do you think it will take question~ and they did not answer the phone on our last call. Thanx again for the response.

Roddie in Retirement

12/25/23   @roddiesho
i used a lawyer and it took about 3 months after all the required paperwork, notarizing,  translation service.
   

    -@Gerard Nardini

If it's just a question of picking up your CRNM, your attorney should be able to do that for you and send it to you:  be sure that s/he uses an express service that's fast and totally traceable.  Once you have the card in hand, you can return immediately with it and your passport:  you will then be a resident of Brazil, and your previous record on your tourist visa should not count against you.

Thank you so much for your reply. Sincerely appreciate the timely support im receiving.

i sure hope my lawyer can simply pickup my CRNM and i can enter as a resident. I thought i needed to be at the PF and fingerprinted.

…. why my lawyer hasn't simply offerred this has we thinking otherwise, but ill find out ASAP. He has my POA. He has 17 years experience. He knows i want to return right away.

Meanwhile I wrote the consulate about my situation, maybe they can help with some kind of permission to reenter as was suggested here. Many thanks to all

12/25/23 i sure hope my lawyer can simply pickup my CRNM and i can enter as a resident. I thought i needed to be at the PF and fingerprinted.
…. why my lawyer hasn't simply offerred this has we thinking otherwise, but ill find out ASAP. He has my POA. He has 17 years experience. He knows i want to return right away.
 

    -@Gerard Nardini

I'm sorry that I may have misled you.  When you said that you'd already been "approved", I thought that you meant that you'd been processed for your CRNM -- i.e., photographed and fingerprinted -- and left while you were still waiting for it to be issued.  If the processing was still pending, I'm surprised that your lawyer didn't caution you not to leave the country before it was done, even if it meant an overstay. 

Your lawyer still may be able to help you, so asking him is a good idea.

Thanks! Lawyer s oversight was to not caution me about leaving without being processed first even if it meant overstaying the 180 days.

I plan to ask about any kind of temporary card or document from the consulate as a possibility per one poster here. I would expect he's thought of everything except how bummed I am.

Maybe this new E-Visa next month won't care about previous stays although kinda doubt it.

In lawyer's defense, I was emailed text stating retirement visa could NOT be obtained outside Brazil. Text was contained in a long email while I was pursuing an investment visa initially. Next time ill know to over-communicate my intent. I'll follow up next week with my findings. Thanks all

@roddiesho

8 weeks to get an approval but needed to stay in Brazil to get my CRMN card. Now looking like a 6 month longer wait to return unless Consulate has a temporary way to return for fingerprinting, photo and CRNM card.

@Gerard Nardini

I am repeating my response to your post in another thread, as I do not think you have seen it, and there may be a way to get your back here within 180 days:

Can you clarify a few questions:

Did you use an immigration attorney? In Brazil or the US?

Did you apply for the retirement visa in Brazil or in the US?

How did you find out you have been successful? Were you given a protocolo or other documentation?

What dates exactly were you in Brazil this year?

These answers may help us give more advice...

APPRECIATE THE HELP!

Did you use an immigration attorney? In Brazil or the US?  BRAZIL

Did you apply for the retirement visa in Brazil or in the US? BRAZIL

How did you find out you have been successful? Were you given a protocolo or other documentation?

JUST LAWYER EMAIL STATED I WAS APPROVED.  NOT GIVEN ANYTHING ELSE.

What dates exactly were you in Brazil this year?

JUNE 2 to NOV. 29TH (180 days)

    APPRECIATE THE HELP!
Did you use an immigration attorney? In Brazil or the US?  BRAZIL

Did you apply for the retirement visa in Brazil or in the US? BRAZIL

How did you find out you have been successful? Were you given a protocolo or other documentation?
JUST LAWYER EMAIL STATED I WAS APPROVED.  NOT GIVEN ANYTHING ELSE.

What dates exactly were you in Brazil this year?
JUNE 2 to NOV. 29TH (180 days)
   

    -@Gerard Nardini

I am a little confused - you said your attorney has said that 'you have been approved, so now you have to return to Brazil to give fingerprints and photos'? This is part of the application process in my experience, not part of the process to collect the CRNM... Are you certain of what you were told, could it have been a misinterpretation or misunderstanding?

The date you quoted for entry (June 2nd 2023) - is this the first date you ever entered Brazil. or were you here before?

12/26/23 I am a little confused - you said your attorney has said that 'you have been approved, so now you have to return to Brazil to give fingerprints and photos'? This is part of the application process in my experience, not part of the process to collect the CRNM...
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

That was the source of my confusion, too.  But every PF office is a little different, and if the attorney was able to back-channel the document review,  they may have done that prior to, rather than simultaneously with, the in-person processing.   Bad luck!

    12/26/23 I am a little confused - you said your attorney has said that 'you have been approved, so now you have to return to Brazil to give fingerprints and photos'? This is part of the application process in my experience, not part of the process to collect the CRNM...         -@Peter Itamaraca

That was the source of my confusion, too.  But every PF office is a little different, and if the attorney was able to back-channel the document review,  they may have done that prior to, rather than simultaneously with, the in-person processing.   Bad luck!
   

    -@abthree

Al - do the new CRNM's not have a photo on them? Mine is an old RNE from years ago.... so I am not sure. But if the CRNM needs a photo, it cannot be ready for collection if he has not done this...

@Peter Itamaraca

My lawyer said my final step is to appear in person at the PF, for the  processing of my CRNM card.  im unsure whats involved or whether he can just pick it up and mail it to me, as im outside of Brazil unable to return for 6 months without it. This despite having my retirement visa application approved.

Lawyer is on holiday this week so i scheduled a zoom call with a different office tomorrow to see if theres any way  i can get a temporary CRNM (Protocolo) to reenter Brazil,.

I'm also thinking  there must be  more than one Protocolo, as my lawyer mentioned my Protocolo was ready and they are ready to schedule the PF appointment…but I read thats issued only AFTER the final step.

@Gerard Nardini

Sounds to me like there has been a misunderstanding, or at the very least, a lack of communication.

You should have been fingerprinted and photographed at the time of the complete application, so I suggest you have been told that the application has been approved for processing, not granted, and this lack of process of identification is now hindering your progress to the visa.

On this basis, rather than waiting to give you the CRNM, maybe they are awaiting your appointment for ID verification? If this is correct, you have not been granted the permanent visa, and must return on a tourist visa first.

Again, I would make the point to others about being prepared, and making permanent visa applications at the start of your initial tourist visa period...

@Gerard Nardini

If it were me I'd have your lawyer email the PF office processing your application and get instructions how you can re-enter Brazil without the six month wait. My guess would be if you have your protocol receipt and a tourist visa you'll likely be able to enter. I'd also have a copy of the instructions your lawyer receives from them with you.

Good luck!

@Peter Itamaraca

Just spoke to new Lawyer. He says since I have been told my Visa was approved, then i have been granted a Visa and i can return to BRAZIL to complete the ID process at the PF which involves more fingerprinting and photo.

He said to bring 3 documents (from current lawyer) to show immigration.

1. My visa application filing receipt.
2. My visa approval letter
3. Copy of my published visa.

12/28/23 @Gerard Nardini.  I think that there are two related but very distinct things that are being confused here.  Please bear with me:

1 . A Retirement VISA is issued by a Brazilian Consulate outside Brazil.  The Consulate performs the initial review of the applicant's documents, and that review is generally  accepted by the Federal Police as complete.  The Retirement Visa allows the non-resident applicant to enter Brazil and apply to the Federal Police for --

2 . An Authorization of Residency based on Retirement.   This process is accelerated for someone who holds the VISA in #1 above.   Once the applicant has a CRNM, s/he a resident of Brazil, and no longer needs any kind of visa to be admitted, just their CRNM and their passport.

The regulations allow an applicant to skip Step #1, enter Brazil on a Visitor Visa, go to Step #2 and apply directly to the Federal Police for an Authorization of Residency, as you did.  This requires the Federal Police to do a more thorough document review. You've apparently satisfied  that, and they're ready to process  you for your CRNM -- but you still need a visa to get back into the country, and you're out of time on your Visitor Visa, the only visa you currently have.

You're going to have to get over two hurdles:  the airline check-in agent in the US to let you onto the plane, and the Immigration Officer in Brazil to let you into the country.  The Immigration Officer may be satisfied with the Brazilian documents that your lawyer recommends; your lawyer should know your time and date of arrival and be ready  to take an emergency call from you, just in case.   You can't be sure that the check-in agent will be able to read Portuguese, so maybe a letter in English from your lawyer stating that your residency has been approved and that you're needed in Brazil to finalize it would help.

After January 10, both will be looking for an eVisa - the new Visitor Visa.  If you can obtain that, it will probably help a lot.

Yes i am returning without a visa and i stayed 180 days already however…

New lawyer claims ANYONE who has applied for residency is technically allowed entry. He emailed me the section that states it clearly to show imigration, along with the 3 other supporting documents i mentioned.

Kinda sounds logical to be allowed entry for step #2 (the ID process for residency authorization) since my retirement visa has been approved. Otherwise applicants visiting Brazil who applied in Brazil (like me) could be potentially forced to overstay in order to complete both steps.

Of course,  immigration officials discretion may vary and i have zero experience myself.

Really appreciate  the timely responses as it leads me to ask proper questions. Great idea to request lawyer be available for emergency call as I plan to return to Brazil prior to January 10th to avoid airline issue, again to complete step #2. (authorization of Residency)

12/28/23 @Gerard Nardini.  " Again many thanks for the suggestion to have my lawyer ready by phone! Brilliant"

I cannot tell a lie:  I borrowed that idea from @roddiesho.  His situation wasn't too different from yours, and if his Brazilian wife hadn't been immediately able to go to bat for him on the phone, the Immigration Officer would have packed him onto the first plane back to Miami.

Best of luck to you.  Please let us know how it goes.  You're certainly going to have a New Year to remember, one way or another!

    @Peter Itamaraca
Just spoke to new Lawyer. He says since I have been told my Visa was approved, then i have been granted a Visa and i can return to BRAZIL to complete the ID process at the PF which involves more fingerprinting and photo.
He said to bring 3 documents (from current lawyer) to show immigration.


My visa application filing receipt.
My visa approval letter
Copy of my published visa.

   

    -@Gerard Nardini

Do you have those documents? If you need to get them from your old lawyer, then please let us know when you have received them...

@Gerard Nardini I can confirm that the PF at the airport are aware of how to handle exception situations.  I left the country before my residency application was finished with an expired CRNM.  I had a document from Brasilia showing the application was in process, so all was fine.  I then re-entered the country with an expired CRNM, but had my protocol showing I had an appointment with the PF for the CRNM and also had printed the page from the DOU showing I had been approved.  They understood and there were no questions or issues.

Reading through the thread it was a bit confusing due to how the term Visa was being used.  @abthree provided an excellent explanation in his post above.  As he mentioned you don't apply or receive a ”VISA” in Brasil.  That is the function of consulates. 

It appears you applied for temporary residency in country and if it has been approved, you should have had your name and the length of your approval published in the DOU.  Since this is your initial application, you'll probably  be approved for only 2 years - so be prepared for the renewal process.  You can easily print out the appropriate page from the Android, IOS app or webpage. 

You'll need the printout when you go to the PF for the CRNM.

I can't speak for other PF locations, but if you're in Sao Paulo, there are a few things to be aware of:

1. They will request that you have a printout of EVERY SINGLE PAGE (Even empty pages) of your passport.  If you don't have it, they'll send  you across the street to a photocopy shop and you'll pay between R$50 and R$100 to have them do it.
2. On the DOU printout, instead of just the particular page where your name is printed, they'll ask for all pages prior in the section printed also, so for example if your name is printed on page 63 and the section starts on page 55, you need pages 55 through 63 printed.  In this case, they went ahead and printed the prior pages for me - but if you have it, it will save time.

Success! I'm thrilled to report I made it back in Brazil. Many thanks for the great advice from members. Also quite a bit of luck finding a new lawyer who contradicted the lawyer I used to apply who said definitively I needed to remain out of Brazil for 6 long months, based on his 17 yrs experience. Good thing he decided to take 2 weeks off after informing me.

To my surprise, a new lawyer said nonsense, simply print a copy of the DOU page showing your name under approved visa applications. If necessary tell immigration you're in process and required back to complete the PF process interview, fingerprints, photos, etc.

After a nerve racking time leading up to the immigration window I was asked 5 questions about my reason for entering Brazil, given I had already stayed 6 months recently. I was asked for documents. Official only wanted the page in the DOU with my name on it to show his Supervisor.

Five anxious minutes later came the sweet sound of my passport being stamped. What a relief and what a learning curve I was on. The next day my friend asked so when do you get your actual visa? To which I replied uh, good question.

    01/10/24 Success! I'm thrilled to report I made it back in Brazil. Many thanks for the great advice from members.
   

    -@Gerard Nardini

Welcome back -- so glad that it worked out for you!  So now, please don't let any grass grow under your feet before you request your CRNM from the PF and put all of this behind you, once and for all.

@abthree

An aspect to this process worth noting is just how many false assumptions i made and there's probably more. Only after sucessfully reentering and today calmly re-reading your post (and others) do i realize just how accurately you informed me of what to expect.   You just now clarified for me that i dont actually receive a visa. Who knew all this Visa applying, back and forth plus the wait would result in, wait for it…something other than a physical visa in hand, sorry I guess im stressing both the value of the many kind responses that guided me and to be on constant lookout for possible snags, as the brain can be quite resistant to the fine print gotchas or to its own biases. This is where i think a good bilingual Brazilian lawyer who actually enjoys being current and sharing this potentially nerve-racking nerdy business comes in. Im now being helped with not just gaining residency but opening the right bank account, transferring money without getting hosed, help with paying taxes here, avoiding fees…I believe I found the right person. His free live Youtube events are on Wed &Sun. Oliveira Lawyers. A Zoom session runs $125. Well worth it. He put my first lawyer to shame. Thanks again Expats, Off to celebrate…

  01/11/24  @abthreeAn aspect to this process worth noting is just how many false assumptions i made and there's probably more.     -@Gerard Nardini

You're absolutely right about how much a capable, trustworthy, bilingual lawyer can help an expat.

Another insight that has always served me in good stead is that, whatever anyone says, most Brazilian civil servants that you encounter want to do be proud of the job that they do, and put in an honest days work for an honest day's pay.  But they're totally programmed to follow the processes that they've been taught, step by step, without deviation.  They're neither taught nor expected nor rewarded to respond creatively to novel situations, which are more likely to panic them than anything else.  So success is most likely when you make sure you  know what process you're in, you stay relaxed and pleasant, have the documents that they expect all ready in the form and order that they're expecting them, tell the truth but don't volunteer information or documents not requested if not absolutely necessary:  unexpected information tends to create those novel situations.   Everything in Brazil has a flow.  Ride it and you'll go far, try to fight it and you'll just tire yourself out.

@abthree

Very well put...

The bureaucracy has always been there, but it is a lot better than it used to be... but you must still go with the flow.

I recall 16 odd years ago having to go to an old Receita Federal building in Recife Antigo to get CPFs for people, and frequently facing a 3-4 hour wait. At that time the staff were given a job for life, and they literally had to commit a major crime to lose it. Thus they worked at the pace they wanted, (exceptionally slowly), frequently fooling around between themselves, taking breaks, and making their customers sit and wait.

That started to change when they brought in better educated staff on different contracts, and sidelined the slackers to less enjoyable jobs out of the public eye. Updating the computer system made a lot of difference as well, so they did not have to write down reference numbers before changing screens!

I was too young then to qualify for the preferential tickets, but a couple of times I managed to jump the queue - once I said we had to catch a flight and after waiting for 2 hours we were going to miss it if we had to wait any longer. Another time the girl pointed above her head to a sign indicating who qualified for preferential tickets; after a suitable pause, in my worst possible Portuguese, I declared I was pregnant. She laughed her head off and gave me my fast track ticket - I am a man...