Considerations surrounding Brazilian citizenship and naturalization

11272POSTS

12 years ago

DouglasT wrote:
I see no advantage in naturalization. I have been here 33 years, and other than not being able to vote or buy large tracts of land (but I can own a business that can by land), I see no advantage. As an American, I would also loose my US citizenship, and need a visa to visit family back home!

Cheers, Douglas

You never lose your US citizenship unless you officially renounce it through INS. You can have dual citizenship without losing anything. If on the other hand you do RENOUNCE like many wealthy individuals and celebrities, Tina Turner for example; you will pay a huge exit tax on your entire lifesavings and personal assets:

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Internat … iation-Tax

I agree with you that I see (because of my age) no advantage whatsoever of naturalization. Just makes no sense at all for me. If I were much younger I certainly would consider it though, if for nothing other than to open up the possiblity of public sector jobs.

Cheers,
William James Woodward Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

usmc_mv ViP

1049POSTS

12 years ago

#42

Just to clarify renouncing of the United States citizenship - James beat me to it but the only way to renounce your citizenship abroad is at a US Consulate or Embassy. If you are ignorant enough to renounce it you will be forced to surrender your American passport immediately and permanently (and you should never be allowed in my opinion to get one again) It is possible to renounce inside the United States via. USCIS however it would be pretty stupid to do especially if you do not want to pay the tax to exit just for proving a political or cultural point. No foreign government can force you to renounce your US Citizenship - if they do, it is only recognized in that country - it has no bearing in the United States or other countries.

Unless you are trying to prove a point, (as if everyone cared when Tina Turner renounced hers) renouncing your US Citizenship is a very big decision and truthfully I would advise against it as would anyone else that had a brain.

You can renounce your citizenship to the Brazilian government if you need to - feel free. It is meaningless outside Brazil. I believe Sven mention this at one point too.

These are the facts, any foreign lawyer or government that tells you differently is wrong. What they say only applies to that country - not the United States!

http://yoursmiles.org/ksmile/flag6/brazil-flag-waving-smile.gif

Matt V. - Manaus, Amazonas, Brasil
Visit my Personal Blog - brazilbs.blogspot.com

The Brazil expat guide

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lawyer_rio Contributor

139POSTS

12 years ago

#43

wjwoodward wrote:
OMG, I personally wouldn't VOTE for any of this band of idiots if they paid me too.

I intend to vote for a clown and a soccer player

lawyer_rio Contributor

139POSTS

12 years ago

#44

usmc_mv wrote:
No foreign government can force you to renounce your US Citizenship - if they do, it is only recognized in that country - it has no bearing in the United States or other countries.

You can renounce your citizenship to the Brazilian government if you need to - feel free. It is meaningless outside Brazil. I believe Sven mention this at one point too.

These are the facts, any foreign lawyer or government that tells you differently is wrong. What they say only applies to that country - not the United States!

Exactly, the renunciation only has effect within Brazil. It means that, while in Brazil, you can't use "i am an american/canadian/dutchman/utopian" in relation to the Brazilian government. Inside Brazil, you are a Brazilian and only a Brazilian, meaning you have to vote, you must register for military service if you're under 45, must bear an ID and you must use your Brazilian passport to enter and leave.

Brazilian law only applies to Brazil and inside Brazil, so the renunciation is only valid in Brazil, and totally and utterly meaningless outside its borders.

Gimie Member

1POSTS

12 years ago

#45

Does this mean that as a parent of a brazilian child I should be PHYSICALLY in Brazil for 1 year?

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#46

Hello Gimie,

As far as I understand the legislation yes, one would have to both hold a permanent visa and have resided in Brazil for at least one year in order to apply for naturalization. You could not apply for naturalization from outside the country at any rate. Also one must meet all of the other requirments for naturalization, parenting a Brazilian child in itself doesn't automatically qualify one for naturalization like it does for obtaining permanency. Permanency and citizenship are two completely separate issues.

http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/flag/t67118.gif

Cheers,

http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/flag/t67054.gif

William James Woodward Brazil Animator, Expat-blog Team

kevin66 New member

9POSTS

12 years ago

#47

To lawyer_rio:

How long did the process of getting naturalized take from submission of the application until actually getting approved? Was it is just a big waiting game or did the officials come back to you after you submitted the official documents to ask for additional info..? Did you do the application yourself or thru a 3rd party like a lawyer?

thanks

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#48

Hi Kevin,

As a layman I don't know a whole lot about Brazilian criminal or civil law, but I'm not sure whether one has the same rights to act PRO SE (represent oneself) in the courts in this country as do citizens elsewhere. I do know that for example in hearings in such governmental bodies like PROCON it's quite common. However, in even a consentual divorce in the Cartório de Registro das Pessoas Naturais the parties must be represented by at least ONE lawyer.

Since applying for citizenship is done through a Federal Judge, it is likely that you would need the services of a lawyer to do so. Unfortunately the Ministério da Justiça website is down at the moment so I can't even see if there is any mention made there.

Cheers,

William James Woodward Brazil & Canada Expert - Expat.com Team

kevin66 New member

9POSTS

12 years ago

#49

Thank you for the valuable info Kevin. A lawyer seems necessary.

As to the well-intentioned advice from USMC about giving up Yank citizenship, I can't really know since I'm Canadian. But I can think of plenty of good reasons why Americans would want to escape from the Empire, apart from taxes.

It's a personal decision and contrary to what many Yanks think, there can be life without having that American passport. Much of the world does just fine without it.

usmc_mv ViP

1049POSTS

12 years ago

#50

Yank? My comment was not directed to you it was directed to DouglasT. Show a bit more respect.

Sincerely

THE YANK

Matt V. - Manaus, Amazonas, Brasil
Visit my Personal Blog - brazilbs.blogspot.com

kevin66 New member

9POSTS

12 years ago

#51

Sorry. The correct nomenclature is American or citizen of the United States, or citizen of the 48 contiguous south of the 49th parallel, including Hawaii and Alaska.

My bad. Thank you for the correction.

cwldf Member

1POSTS

12 years ago

#52

I was born in Taiwan and I became naturalized Brazilian in 1987.
I work for Brazilian Government and I can not lose my Brazilian citizenship.
Recently, my father died and left properties (including a farm) in Taiwan. To be owner of those properties, I have to get my Taiwanese Id (Taiwan allows dual citizenship), which implies that I am still a Taiwanese citizen.

I am wondering if I will lose my Brazilian citizenship in case I obtain a Taiwanese ID. May anyone help me?

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#53

Hello cwldf,

No you won't lose your Brazilian citizenship, Brazil also recognizes multiple citizenship. You are still a Taiwanese citizen since the declaration that you renounce any former citizenship you held prior to naturalization is pro forma and only has validity in Brazil. All it really means is that while you're in Brazil you cannot claim any special protection from Brazilian laws by claiming your other citizenship. Here you are first, last and always considered Brazilian.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil & Canada Expert, Expat-blog Team

lawyer_rio Contributor

139POSTS

12 years ago

#54

Sorry for the late answer. The time it takes all depends where you apply. In Rio (airport) it probably takes a year or two. I applied in Nova Iguacu. It took 8 months.

Like getting permanente residency, there is no lawyer required for naturalization.

Applying for citizenship is not done in front of a federal judge, but with the federal police. The jugde will present you with the naturalization certificate. Again, no lawyer required.

And no, cwldf, you won't loose Brazilian citizenship.

kevin66 New member

9POSTS

12 years ago

#55

Dear lawyer_rio,

That is very valuable information and thank you for the comment very much.

It is particularly intriguing because I think William mentioned last month about all citizenship decisions being made in Brasilia.

If it is much faster in some cities than others to naturalize as you say, does not that imply that the decisions are made locally? Or is William still correct that the ultimate decisions are made in Brasilia but perhaps the local federal police are..slower to submit the information to Brasilia?

thanks again,
Kevin

lawyer_rio Contributor

139POSTS

12 years ago

#56

kevin66 wrote:
It is particularly intriguing because I think William mentioned last month about all citizenship decisions being made in Brasilia.

That is correct

kevin66 wrote:
If it is much faster in some cities than others to naturalize as you say, does not that imply that the decisions are made locally? Or is William still correct that the ultimate decisions are made in Brasilia but perhaps the local federal police are..slower to submit the information to Brasilia?

It takes longer because the federal police takes much longer for the "home visit".

In São Paulo for example, the home visit can take up to 18 months. A friend of mine that lived somewhere in the boonies (north of Macaé, Barra de Itabapoana) had to wait almost 4 years before the feds in Macaé could aford the gas to drive up there.

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#57

Holy cr_p! Am I ever glad I only live 15Km. north of the city center of Macaé... I'd be dead and in my grave long before they made the home visit otherwise!!! Thank God they were here 3 weeks after my latest application. The first one from 4 years ago still hasn't gone anywhere yet. I'm hoping this time I might get some action on the process before I kick off.

kevin66 New member

9POSTS

12 years ago

#58

do the federal police make an unannounced visit or do they tell you in advance?

William--why does this apply to you since you are not interested in naturalization? i am in brazil also on a long-term visa and I have heard nothing of a federal police home visit.

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#59

Because it is exactly the same process for permanency, home visit and all. The home visit is also part of the VIPER Permanent Visa process.

kevin66 New member

9POSTS

12 years ago

#60

didn't know that. well i have my permanent resident card in hand now, and no police visit--does that mean they come later? if they want to come, they are more than welcome but doesn't seem like they care.

kevin66 New member

9POSTS

12 years ago

#61

i think the home visit only applies if you get the visa through abrazilian spouse or kid so the police can check you have a real relationship. that's not my type of visa.

DocHoliday Member

1POSTS

12 years ago

#62

Rio-lawyer,

Since you are a successfully naturalized Brazilian citizen I would greatly appreciate it if you could provide me with the name of an immigration attorney ( preferably in Rio) to help walk me through the process. I am not yet proficient in Portuguese so I will need someone proficient in english.

Thank you in advance,
Frank

usmc_mv ViP

1049POSTS

12 years ago

#63

Well, he is a lawyer in RJ. He doesn't come on here often but his website is on his profile.

http://vantveer.adv.br/pt/index.html

lynnhk Member

2POSTS

12 years ago

#64

Hello William. Great post but i need some advices regarding the jus matrimonis. I am Brazilian and my husband wants to have the Brazilian citizenship. At my consulate they say he should apply for permanent visa and at the Brasilia Cartorio they say it's enough to apply for a tourist visa and on arrival to Brazil to start immediately filing for citizenship. Please advise. Thank u

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#65

No, your husband can't apply immediately for citizenship. The law requires that to naturalize someone who is married to a Brazilian or has a Brazilian child must hold a VIPER Permanent Visa for (minimum) one year. So, in practical terms that means it will take about 3 years if the person doesn't already have the visa first. Your husband can enter Brazil on a VITUR Tourist Visa and if your marriage has already been registered with the Consulado-Geral do Brasil back there first he can apply for the VIPER immediately on arrival.

Depending on exactly how soon you want to come to Brazil it may be better to apply for the VIPER at home, since the processing time is much shorter than here in Brazil, it will take around 3 - 6 months to obtain the VIPER abroad as opposed to 2 years or more here in Brazil. The only drawback is that he can't enter Brazil until the VIPER has been issued if applied for abroad.

See the Ministério da Justiça website for more information:

http://portal.mj.gov.br/main.asp?View=% … 0F4CB26%7D

TigerMcTeague Active member

94POSTS

12 years ago

#66

I think that naturalization is nice for travel purposes. You can travel to other countries on either passport, but to travel to the country of the passport's origins requires that country's passport. It makes it nice for traveling to every country and to work in another country.

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#67

That clearly depends on which country issues the passports. For example I would have no problem travelling to any nation in the world using my Canadian passport. If however I were naturalized as a Brazilian (which I'm not) and held a Brazilian passport it would be much to my disadvantage to try to enter many countries using a Brazilian passport, especially some EU countries like Spain or the USA for example, where those entering with Brazilian passports are often refused entry or mistreated. If a person is a Permanent Resident of Brazil and holds a Cédula de Identidade Estrangeiro or has obtained a "Certidão de Estado Legal" from the Federal Police before leaving Brazil to travel, then on return they can choose to re-enter the country using the Brazilians Only line-up or the Foreigners line-up at the immigrations checkpoint, whichever is quicker at the moment. So...... I can't see any great advantage of holding a Brazilian Passport.

In the case of my son, a dual citizen... if we were to leave Brazil, by law he is required to exit the country using a Brazilian Passport and enter Canada using a Canadian passport. He could enter any other nation using whichever passport he chose to.

TigerMcTeague Active member

94POSTS

12 years ago

#68

I know for me having a U.S. passport prevents me from traveling to a few countries, and doesn't give me the benefits that having a British or Canadian passport offer with regards to work and travel. A Brazilian passport likewise gives some benefits to travel and allows for easier accommodation in some countries.
Wikipedia has the best information about Visas and about passports and of course you can find rankings online such as this ranking about which passport offers the best advantages for travel. Brazilian passport would help out for Mercosul, Cuba, China, and a few countries in the middle east. Having two passports is essential for travel in the middle east as well.

usmc_mv ViP

1049POSTS

12 years ago

#69

TigerMcTeague wrote:
I know for me having a U.S. passport prevents me from traveling to a few countries, and doesn't give me the benefits that having a British or Canadian passport offer with regards to work and travel. A Brazilian passport likewise gives some benefits to travel and allows for easier accommodation in some countries.
Wikipedia has the best information about Visas and about passports and of course you can find rankings online such as this ranking about which passport offers the best advantages for travel. Brazilian passport would help out for Mercosul, Cuba, China, and a few countries in the middle east. Having two passports is essential for travel in the middle east as well.

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/benefits … 39909.html http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011 … ernational

Read the last one and watch for the mention of Brazil......

US Citizens regardless if they hold foreign passports are prohibited from "spending money" in Cuba due to sanctions. Unlikely they will discover your trip but just so you know.

TigerMcTeague Active member

94POSTS

12 years ago

#70

James up there has a Commonwealth passport. Those are by far the best in recent years, and the British passport is the best in my opinion due to less travel restrictions and ability to move abroad to work.

Also, I know the topic was originally naturalization in Brazil. I believe some other advantages could be free university, ability to run for office in Brazil, and working for some government agencies.

usmc_mv ViP

1049POSTS

12 years ago

#71

Maybe so... But I have only asked for two visas in my life - Russia and Brazil. I have no desire to visit any other country that requires a visa from me (not out of spite just simply because I don't have any interest). So my flashy blue passport suits me just fine.

As far as naturalizing in Brazil, if I had stayed you could not pay me to naturalize because I do not like being forced to do anything - let alone vote in an election.

lynnhk Member

2POSTS

12 years ago

#72

Dear William
Thank u for the reply . Now if i get the
VIPER from the consulat to my husband before entering brazil, how much should we stay there for my husband to get the citizenship and how much yhe procedures will cost. And should i need a lawyer?
Thank u

usmc_mv ViP

1049POSTS

12 years ago

#73

Once you have your permanent visa, you should expect 1-2 years for naturalization. Naturalization is not a right just because you have permanency. It is grated at the discretion of the Ministry of Justice. With naturalization comes mandatory voting, FYI.

Just out of curiosity, why do you want naturalization? There are only a few perks of it that may not even benefit you.

Matt-

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#74

As Matt told you, once the individual has a VIPER based on marriage to a Brazilian or having a Brazilian child you can must wait at least one year in order to apply for naturalization, then around a year more for it to be processed.

The ONLY benefits that are derived by citizenship that you don't get by being a Permanent Resident are the ability to obtain a Brazilian passport and to compete for jobs in the public service. As Matt also points out, for those benefits you have many more responsibilities and obligations:

Compulsory vote
Compulsory Military Service

Also, at least while Brazil recognizes dual citizenship, you must renounce your other citizenship (only has effect in Brazil) so you lose any protection that citizenship might otherwise offer for someone abroad, because in Brazil the individual would be considered ONLY Brazilian. So for example, let's say that an American citizen, naturalized Brazilian, is charged and convicted of a crime in Brazil. While the USA would offer assistance and could petition the Brazilian government to send that individual back to the USA in order serve out their sentence. The Brazilian government would allow neither US assistance nor send the person back to the USA becase here they are NOT considered Americans.

As a resident of Brazil you must pay taxes on your income, but as an American citizen you will be required to file an annual income tax return (Form 1040) and pay income taxes in the USA. You are required to report any foreign income, no matter where it is earned. Since Brazil and the USA have no Income Tax Treaty you could end up paying taxes on Brazilian sourced income twice, both in Brazil and in the USA, or paying more in one country than you might have in the other.

Also it is not automatic and is conditional on many things - mainly one must pass the CELPE-Bras test of Portuguese so must be fluent in the language. See requirements:

http://portal.mj.gov.br/main.asp?View=% … 0F4CB26%7D

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil & Canada Expert, Expat-blog Team

TigerMcTeague Active member

94POSTS

12 years ago

#75

wjwoodward wrote:
one must pass the CELPE-Bras test of Portuguese so must be fluent in the language.

Do you know where one could find an example or practice test for the CELPE?

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#76

Not sure if one even exists, but you can probably find out by a Google search.

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#77

You couldn't pay me enough money to make me become a citizen of this country!!! Never in a million years.

Khurram Rasheed New member

4POSTS

12 years ago

#78

Dear William James Woodward,
I read all ur comments it was knowledgeable, i come to hear that if you get Brazilian citizenship after that every Brazilian can easily move to any European country without required any visa just stamp on airport.....
please do me a favour
i am keen interested to be a Brazilian citizen and currently working in Kingdom of saudi and by born Pakistani so please guide me what is the best way to come to Brazil and how to survive.

Thanks

Khurram

James ViP

11272POSTS

12 years ago

#79

Hello Khurram,

First of all it is about 10 times more difficult for citizens of Pakistan and India to obtain even a VITUR Tourist Visa for Brazil than it is for citizens from other countries to get the very same visa. The requirements you must meet to get the visa are much more of an onus. Even then the maximum stay with a Tourist Visa is 180 days in a "rolling" period of one year and you are not permitted to work or study since that requires a different kind of visa. (VITEM-IV Student Visa or VITEM-V Work Visa).

The only ways to obtain a VIPER Permanent Visa are as follows:

Based on marriage to a Brazilian citizen or foreign national who already has permanent status;
Based on a stable conjugal relationship (that has existed for a minimum of one year) with a Brazilian citizen or foreign national who already has permanent status;
Having a Brazilian child (biological or adopted) who is in your custody and dependent upon you financially;
Retired persons who meet financial requirements (i.e. they are able to bring into the country a monthly income equal to US$ 2,000 per month);
Investors who will invest R$150 thousand (US$ 75,000) in an existing Brazilian business or business start-up;
Foreign nationals who have been in Brazil a minimum of 2 or more years on a VITEM-V Work Visa may also apply for transformation of their visa into a VIPER Permanent Visa.

It is almost impossible for foreigners to obtain work contracts in Brazil unless they have graduated in professions or skilled occupations that are in demand in Brazil. Brazilian law also requires employers to show that they have exhausted all possible efforts to place a qualified Brazilian in any job vacancy before they can hire a foreigner to fill the vacancy.

I really don't think you'd stand much of a chance of being allowed to enter Brazil unless you fit into one of the above categories, not even as a tourist.

Regarding becoming a naturalized Braziian citizen, one must have already held a VIPER for at least 1 year to apply for citizenship based on marriage or a Brazilian child; or 4 years in any other circumstances.

Cheers,
William James Woodward - Brazil & Canada Expert, Expat-blog Team

The Brazil expat guide

Comprehensive and free

Read it now

freeman2014 Member

22POSTS

12 years ago

#80

hello to everybody , i am married with a brasilian woman about 3 months i am in brazil now about 6 months , i start of procedure of the permanent visa 3 months , the police federel lgive me a protocolo and other paper so as i can work , i got my permission of work every things good no problem , i give a call to police federel they said to me you must wait tell the police visit you in house ,after poolice visting the procedurer start they said to me betwen 6 months and 1 year.i would like to ask please how i know my visa permenante is aprouved ? i would like to know about the citizenship is 1 year after my marriage , or 1 year i after i got my permanent visa ? i would like to change my license driving my origin country to a brasilian lecense driving please let me know about the procedure and about dutrain ? thank you so much i hope every body share with me all the experience and help me for my ansear my questions .