Saudis actualy liberal?

2POSTS

11 years ago

Hello people! So this is my first post on the forums

Anyway, I remember reading from some other forum (can't remember which one it was) that while the Saudi Arabian government imposes a strict interpretation of Islam, Saudis themselves are actually quite liberal / westernized people, especially along the coastal cities. I remember reading something about there beings lots of mixed-gender schools in Jeddah (I think), and that there even are some mixed-gender beaches where women can wear bikinis. People on that thread said that Saudis are quite secular in private, and that drinking alcohol, having Western-style parties and dating are common among the youth.

They also said that Saudi women are actually treated quite equally with regards to men apart from the legal restrictions of not being able to drive / the guardianship system (but that these laws are changing too), and that the image of oppressed Saudi women is just a fabrication of Western media.

I've tried to look for more information about this, but couldn't find any, and can't find that forum discussion anymore, so I'm a bit confused!

Finding the truth behind this would be very interesting, especially since I'm considering to move to Saudi.

Thank you!

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duaab Member

2POSTS

11 years ago

rareshine wrote:
you're CERTAINLY confused because you're trying to apply your western "values" or lack thereof on a society that highly respects and regards people with morals. what you read is a bunch of western chatter on the internet about what saudis are, and mostly aren't. Since you decided to generalize a whole nation under liberals based upon reading a few inadequately informed posts .. i'll try to help you out.

1. saudi government is adhering to the ONLY version of islam there is and that is the islam found in the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salAllaahu alayhi wa salaam. there weren't versions of islaam revealed nor practiced, so to call it an interpretation of something is a false pretense.

The government, is only a mirror image of its people, (check your history books) therefore, the saudis are religious and fundamental in more than one aspect. Gender-mixed ANYTHING doesn't exist anywhere except on western compounds or other nonpublic places. if you mean that women mix with their fathers, brothers, uncles and family member then you're on target. but in the greater majority, saudis aren't rushing to be "liberated" by mixing with the other gender.

If they are drinking Alcohol then you may have to take out your fine tooth-comb to find them. no denial that it exists, however, thinking that you're going to find SAUDIs as a nation of drunks, you're better off believing in santa.

there has yet to come an official explanation on why the liberals want to move to a conservative country and then whine about its ways. since you're already living in a liberal place with a bunch of liberals then the only math that adds up here is that you stay with ya own kind.

Alright, thanks for the answer. This is a subject I'm still quite ignorant about so sorry if i offended you, that wasn't my intention.

But yeah, I was kind of expecting that this would be the case, thanks for replying!

seeker.ali Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

not at all

faymoyo1 Active member

42POSTS

11 years ago

Never the truth , bikini where? yes alkhobar is a little liberal beach with no abaya but not a bikini.
dont discuss alcohol here , its haram ( forbidden ) you will get into trouble.
Women will NEVER BE EQUAL TO MEN IN THE ARAB WORLD !
Stick to the 10 comandments , practice what is preached not done
Trust me i am a womanwho lived there. Do your business and get out.

seeker.ali Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

Not every place can be the same. Otherwise the world would be monotonous and colorless. You travel to different countries, explore, observe, gel in and move to another. Respect everyones religion, culture, social norms and language. Life has less miseries that way.

1 member reacted to this post

seeker.ali Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

rareshine wrote:
you're CERTAINLY confused because you're trying to apply your western "values" or lack thereof on a society that highly respects and regards people with morals. what you read is a bunch of western chatter on the internet about what saudis are, and mostly aren't. Since you decided to generalize a whole nation under liberals based upon reading a few inadequately informed posts .. i'll try to help you out.

1. saudi government is adhering to the ONLY version of islam there is and that is the islam found in the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salAllaahu alayhi wa salaam. there weren't versions of islaam revealed nor practiced, so to call it an interpretation of something is a false pretense.

The government, is only a mirror image of its people, (check your history books) therefore, the saudis are religious and fundamental in more than one aspect. Gender-mixed ANYTHING doesn't exist anywhere except on western compounds or other nonpublic places. if you mean that women mix with their fathers, brothers, uncles and family member then you're on target. but in the greater majority, saudis aren't rushing to be "liberated" by mixing with the other gender.

If they are drinking Alcohol then you may have to take out your fine tooth-comb to find them. no denial that it exists, however, thinking that you're going to find SAUDIs as a nation of drunks, you're better off believing in santa.

there has yet to come an official explanation on why the liberals want to move to a conservative country and then whine about its ways. since you're already living in a liberal place with a bunch of liberals then the only math that adds up here is that you stay with ya own kind.

There is ONE version of Islam however the hadiths can have different interpretations and thus we have different school of thoughts. This is a reality whether you admit or not. And to be able to tolerate everyone's belief and to be able to live peacefully with everyone's faith is the only way forward to make our lives any more miserable than they are.

1 member reacted to this post

rareshine Serial expat

904POSTS

11 years ago

women will never be equal to men in ANY WORLD. period. and never understood why people believe that to be true. I lived in the states for 20 years and inequality was always present. women, no matter how educated, never got paid like a man did in that same position, especially when it comes to business. (the glass ceiling) - the feminism movement came exactly from that lack of economic and social rights ie. equality.

anyway, i dont understand why women exhaust themselves trying to be like men. i'm a woman and I want to fulfill my roles and not the mans roles. we are equal in that we have equal responsibility to family and society but for me to chase after the man's role is stupid - and makes zero sense. we have equality in the difference of roles and a man cannot fulfill my role (child bearing, suckling) etc. so why would I chase to fulfill his body strength (at work) and try to compete with him in the field where he clearly dominates.

faymoyo1 wrote:
Never the truth , bikini where? yes alkhobar is a little liberal beach with no abaya but not a bikini.
dont discuss alcohol here , its haram ( forbidden ) you will get into trouble.
Women will NEVER BE EQUAL TO MEN IN THE ARAB WORLD !
Stick to the 10 comandments , practice what is preached not done
Trust me i am a womanwho lived there. Do your business and get out.

1 member reacted to this post

seeker.ali Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

live.ali wrote:
rareshine wrote:
you're CERTAINLY confused because you're trying to apply your western "values" or lack thereof on a society that highly respects and regards people with morals. what you read is a bunch of western chatter on the internet about what saudis are, and mostly aren't. Since you decided to generalize a whole nation under liberals based upon reading a few inadequately informed posts .. i'll try to help you out.

1. saudi government is adhering to the ONLY version of islam there is and that is the islam found in the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salAllaahu alayhi wa salaam. there weren't versions of islaam revealed nor practiced, so to call it an interpretation of something is a false pretense.

The government, is only a mirror image of its people, (check your history books) therefore, the saudis are religious and fundamental in more than one aspect. Gender-mixed ANYTHING doesn't exist anywhere except on western compounds or other nonpublic places. if you mean that women mix with their fathers, brothers, uncles and family member then you're on target. but in the greater majority, saudis aren't rushing to be "liberated" by mixing with the other gender.

If they are drinking Alcohol then you may have to take out your fine tooth-comb to find them. no denial that it exists, however, thinking that you're going to find SAUDIs as a nation of drunks, you're better off believing in santa.

there has yet to come an official explanation on why the liberals want to move to a conservative country and then whine about its ways. since you're already living in a liberal place with a bunch of liberals then the only math that adds up here is that you stay with ya own kind.

There is ONE version of Islam however the hadiths can have different interpretations and thus we have different school of thoughts. This is a reality whether you admit or not. And to be able to tolerate everyone's belief and to be able to live peacefully with everyone's faith is the only way forward to make our lives any more miserable than they are.

*correction* : any less miserable*

1 member reacted to this post

Rogint Member

10POSTS

11 years ago

#10

It's tough being here, and most people are here for financial reasons. Slow changes are occurring, but there is no Saudi social life. Foreigners have to create artificial social environments. Of course, there are some masochists who like dealing with this difficult life style.

Here is the text of another post for you to consider:
"This has probably been asked many times, but circumstances change all the time and I have heard that the Muttawa have been checking marriage certificates more and more lately. Question is, I have a girlfriend that I love dearly, however we are too afraid to go out and do things in the city because of all the horror stories we have heard about being out in public with a member of the opposite sex, and we are getting very bored. We hardly get to see each other, and if I want to visit her at her compound, I have to get a male on the compound to sign me in, as she is not allowed to sign men on. The married ladies have no problem signing their husband in on the compound.

Please can you guys give advice or personal stories on:
1) walking around malls / going to restaurants / staying in hotels / driving in the city with your partner: is it advisable, will I be approached?
2) are there any ways to get around this problem we are afraid of. For example will being engaged help?"

Thinks about that lad's dilemma for a reality check. I have been out with a western lady friend (just platonic), and apart from restaurants, there is NOWHERE TO GO. No cinemas, no theatre, no clubs, no pubs or bars, nothing. Most coffe bars are men only, by default. Plus the irritation of the lady being frequently stopped and told to cover her hair.

If you like lots of expensive shopping, with odd closing times, come to Saudi. If you want anything else, stay away.

zohaibkix New member

4POSTS

11 years ago

#11

Perfect answers lady. I am your fan.

Haithum New member

5POSTS

11 years ago

#12

Hahaha it's funny actually the prt you mention about the Muttawa, well yeah it's kinda strict but lately they become less strict it's okay don't feel afraid cuz if you get caught they won't do a shit for you tgey just gonna tell you we are going to call her parents cuz you know the Saudi Culture and all that stuff about girls. Anyway, don't be too afraid just feel free to hangout with her much more often. I totally agree with you at that point you got no place to go with her but buddy the system of dating here is your house or her house to spend time and you can go out to the Malls such as Redsea mall and al Tahlia street + Al Khalidia street are full of and cafes restaurants "you will like it cuz it's good for dating. Behind al Tahlia street there is a place to walk full of people who are busy by doing there shit and as i told you, don't be afraid buddy just go with her and if they stop you ! Be confident when you talk to them and they will leave you alone. actually there's a smart way to deal with them but i've talking too much so later I'll explain it for you. Good luck

nana84046 Member

20POSTS

11 years ago

#13

Westerners are not devoid of Morals. Beyond that. You are living in a society that has deep religious root in Islam. For you to come here and ask how to go about getting around the teachings here is disgraceful. I have been here 5 years and I would never think it was my duty or just OK to go against society.
You are supposed to assimilate not the other way around.
If you can't respect the country go back home. Your not supposed to be dating, that is not the way of this country. Grow up.

1 member reacted to this post

Haithum New member

5POSTS

11 years ago

#14

I grew up in Jeddah

i'm a part of this society i know a lot

garygill Member

12POSTS

11 years ago

#15

I'll try and give you a factual answer without the invective.

Most of what you have been told is somewhat exaggerated. It's true that in the Eastern province and in e.g. Jeddah things are a little more relaxed. Western women do wear abayas in Jeddah but don't wear headscarves. There are private beaches run by places like the Sheraton that allow swimwear (not on public ones though). When I first moved here an old hand pointed out to me that in a place where things are prohibited a black market starts and this also true. It doesn't mean that the country is indistinguishable from the West. It's important to respect local customs and successful living here means doing that. Hope that helps...