Moving to Slovenia as a retired american

Hi,

it was a bit amusing to read your message, so typical for a confused American:-)

With our 3+ years of experience living in Slovenia, I feel "obliged" to give you some basic information about this country and how it works if you dare to move here.

We are a retired couple who lived for about ten years in Seattle, and then five more in North Carolina and Virginia. Just like yourself, we got uneasy with the PREVIOUS D.C. leadership, and decided to move out of that nonsense. Much happier with the current crew, observing positive changes in the US. But who knows, how it will turn out soon...

So, to your questions. Slovenia is a good choice if you look for a quiet life away from the European "mainstream" (which is not any easier than the American one). Here you will find quite intelligent and polite people, and the highly bureaucratic state system that actually works (yet VERY slowly in many cases). Very low crime, low corruption (unlike many other countries), generally GOOD FOOD which is BY FAR better than our typical American plastic. Generally, things work just fine here.

Other positive things include a short drive to the Adriatic Sea, gorgeous nature, predictable weather, more relaxed business and personal relations, and good attitude towards foreigners, including us Americans. Most people speak English, or at least will try to understand you and help, if needed. The property taxes are substantially lower: we pay just about 200 Euro per YEAR for our rather big house.

Public transportation is WAY better than in the US, and you can generally survive without a car if you find a place in a city or smaller town. Even small villages  are commonly served with reliable bus/train lines.

The negatives: pretty high prices. You might be surprised with some of them being quite higher than in the US. Still, most food is generally cheaper. The utilities are at about the same level. People can be not only friendly, but also jealous, gossipy, and intrusive into your personal space and affairs to the American perception. That is because of their communist past and socialist present, where there is much less respect to privacy, private space, and private ownership. They tend not to understand our typical boundaries, and will casually ask you a lot of questions very unusual for Americans - like your income, personal/family details, official records etc. While Americans have 250 years of freedom, East Europeans and, particularly, Slavic nations, used to be enslaved until relatively recently, which meant absolutely no privacy, neither physical nor mental. So, it largely depends on your personal beliefs and habits whether you would be able to accept this, or to keep a healthy distance, or just ignore "the noise".

Medical services. That's another story. It is sufficiently good here, if you have your private medical insurance, that will allow you to avoid very long waiting time common for locals. Same with dental, and there is an option to go to nearby Croatia, where there are a lot of good dental clinics, and pay reasonable cash for fast and good quality services.

Bureaucracy is something we've found hard to get used to. The government bodies tend to closely control every aspect of life here, and while they are quite efficient in that, we constantly feel living in a modern "concentration camp with improved services and feeding". The legal machine is heavy, so one has to do one's best to "fly under radars", trying to limit exposure to absolute minimum, that is still required - like obtaining and prolonging your residence permit, maintaining a bank account, paying for utilities and alike etc.

Regarding residence permit. It can be easily obtained by Americans if you buy a property here - a house or an apartment, and register in the Slovenian Tax register. You will be able to prolong the permit every year just showing the proof of property ownership, sufficient funds (some $15.000 per year per person is OK), and medical insurance (you can buy a local one for about $500/year/person).

Real estate can be pretty expensive, particularly in or around Ljubljana. On average, it's about 5000 Euro/square meter, while it can be substantially lower away from the capital - as low as 1500 Euro/sq.m.

In order to move to Slovenia, you will need to buy a property first. Then GO BACK to the US, and apply for a long-term visa at their Embassy in Washington. They are quite efficient, and will typically issue that visa within a month. Then you will arrive in Slovenia and apply for the residence permit at the local Administrative Unit (Upravna Enota) where your property is located, and within another month they will issue that residence permit for one year, extendable annually.

It is extremely advisable to use a lawyer in the process - you will be asked whether  you have one at every step of the process, and it will dramatically reduce the headaches. For us, it cost about $2.000 for the two of us in total, and it helped a lot to avoid all the communication with the official bodies.

To summarize this long message, I have to tell you that the sense of moving here largely depends on your expectations, perceptions and ability to adapt. It would make sense to come and live for a month or two, and try to feel the local ambiance. We initially spent two months driving around, found a house, signed a purchase agreement, left for the US, and went through the process I've described above. Now, after three years of living in a small village near the Croatian border, we can say that, in general, the experience has been positive, with some manageable drawbacks. So, it is  very personal, and in order to understand that, there is no other way but to come and feel yourself. I am sure it is the same in any other country one would decide to  relocate to.

Feel free to contact me with more questions, should you have any.

Regards,

Walter "Vlado" Kamensky

I hope you aren't talking me out of going.  I don't have the concentration to full absorb this right now, because I have some things outside I need to tend to.  I am sure I'd have to experience some of this torture to really understand it, but I do like my own space, and I may quickly alienate some otherwise pleasant people.  Do Americans tend to huddle together in areas, or do most of them tend to make friends with the native locals?  I've been watching tons of YouTube videos and have some feel for things, but nothing can replace actually experiencing it firsthand.    I'll read your response later.  Thanks for shouting out.

No, I am not. Just a word of warning in order to avoid future disappointments or misunderstandings.

I don't know much about the habits of American expats here as we INTENTIONALLY live away from the crowds, either expat or local. We both are very introvert, and love to be left alone, which is not very much liked by the locals.

As per my knowledge, Americans are much more open, "rose-glassed", and interested in inter-national socializing much more than Slovenians, who are not fast with accepting foreigners into their inner circles. Slovenians, while relatively friendly in general (comparing to Scandinavians, for instance) are still quite conservative, and don't let foreigners into their life, yet they are very interested in "spying" on us "from around the corner". Gossiping is a very popular and common local "sport", and they spend a lot of time exercising it. It's nearly impossible to be invited in the Slovenian house, yet they would gladly jump into your home at any slightest opportunity.

So, we keep the distance being friendly, and it works just fine. We have some friends who do communicate with the locals quite a lot, but it takes them time and effort (and providing tangible and intangible benefits) to Slovenians to be accepted.

Keep researching, and feel free to ask. Still, the best way would be to come, stay, and experience it yourself. YouTube videos about the country are VERY "sugar-coated", and never describe the real life. The country IS beautiful, yet behind the scenes it is not at all that happy as those videos pretend it to be. In our strong opinion, this is the country of "victorious socialism", and even though it has certain advantages, it is not as good as Mamdani claims.

However, as a foreign retiree who minds his own business and maintains low profile, this is not a bad place to live a simple happy life. With stable fixed income of, say, 1500-2000 dollars per person per month, you would have no issues living in the beautiful, orderly, clean, safe, and quiet country. By the way, US Social Security is NOT taxed here at all - as per the US-Slovenia double-taxation agreement (your pension is a different story). This is a pretty rare case among the countries that do tax foreign retirees.

@Vlado K.

I'm starting to go through your response, bit by bit.  "PREVIOUS D.C. leadership,"  That was bad, but really, they keep showing us it's the Uniparty.  Nothing ever changes of significance.  They bring someone or some people before a Senate committee to testify and never have any intention of actually doing anything because those very people have already bought em out.  Every hearing, every testimony, every attempt to impeach, everything you see on CNN, MSDNC, and FOX is all staged.  You'd never convince me otherwise, and plenty of other Americans, as well.  Not that I've been elected to speak on their behalf, but because they say it on all the social media, and some even make videos about it.  The current president who I voted for 3 times, is not somehow the same one that I voted for and got the first time.  I don't know what's going on- some good things and some crazy things that I know he'd never do.  I won't pretend I know what's going on, but it's going on. 

I can tell you that I seriously doubt it would be in our plans to buy a house.  If I even convince my wife to leave everything she knows behind (she is absolutely not the adventurous type), we'd sell this house, and she'd put the majority of the proceeds in some kind of trust for the grandkids, because she had planned to gift them the house, not realizing what happens under those circumstances: the family battles over the last piece of flesh, so they'd sell it and split the proceeds themselves.  Why not just sell it in advance and give them the money, which is what they'd wind up with anyway?

When it comes to the quiet life, Amen, that's exactly what I'm after.  I'm retired and have no plan or intention of taking a job, although I have seen that there is my company (that I retired from) out at the airport, so if I even considered that, it wouldn't be physical labor.  Been there, done that.  My profile pic shows what I retired from, and while I wouldn't expect to be in that same spot, I could be a supervisor or manager, but then I don't speak Slovenian.  I will continue my YouTube channel and would certainly have new subject matter.  Or I could be a tour guide around the city for American/British tourists (or anyone who speaks English). Otherwise, I'm retired, just like I am here.   I would enjoy taking day or weekend trips to some of those nearby countries if I can get her on board.  The ones that aren't overrun with Africans.  I certainly want low crime; that's how it is here.  I left Nashville because they're on the path to becoming the next Atlanta.  Not sure who they think wants that, but I escaped.  I can do without all the amenities (NFL, NHL, major college sports); I can watch that on TV or stream it to my computer, etc.  I'm not a 'foodie' but I do like good food, and my wife would be happy to be in a place that doesn't have more chemicals in the food than any actual ingredients.  I expect most of the time Slovenia would be like Germany.  Most people there can quickly detect that you're from the US and are excited to show off their English, relieving you of the burden of speaking German.   I got so spoiled that I started slowly forgetting any German, although just a little remains. 

You mentioned what I'll call nosey and overbearing locals getting into your business.  I won't like that, and I will create some enemies because I value my privacy.  Now, depending on what one asks, I may be fine with it.  There are people on YouTube who've made videos saying they ask a lot of questions, some really odd and some a bit too personal.  I can shock people at times; I might simply tell them what they want to know and more, unless they're asking about my finances.  I somehow figured food (groceries) were mostly going to be cheaper, that is things that aren't being shipped from overseas, which I'd expect.   I do expect to have one of our cars over there, as I won't take a chance buying a used car from someone I don't share a common language with or know their character.  I'm seeing a chart of what to expect, price-wise, and unless it's a bit outdated, I don't see that as bad.  if we rent, we won't have property taxes, at least directly, because that would be factored into rent.  I'd certainly rather own a house when we get to that stage, but I doubt we'd take that path at our age, because we don't want another mortgage.  And as I said, we wouldn't simply use the proceeds from this house because that would go into a trust.    Although there's no such thing there, I'd hope at some stage to have some of my 2nd Amendment items come to join me.  I truly know nothing about how you may be allowed to defend yourself.  I'm curious if there is an obvious police presence in public areas.  I didn't grow up with any of the socialist tactics, but I am married, so it may not be that much different. 😉  One thing I keep seeing in videos is expats and tourists talking about going into someone's home and being overwhelmed with the treatment, being made to feel part of the family, and bombarded with food and treats.  I think that would make me feel very uncomfortable.  And they'd be highly disappointed coming to my place, because I might offer a beer or whatever, have em sit and watch TV.  No snacks, no 8-course meal.  Just come in and have a seat.  I hope not to need serious medical care anymore until the medical examiner comes, because after my stroke in 2016, I value my freedom and do my best to look after my health, so I hate going to doctors.  If you knew how much I valued the ability to come and go when I please, being held captive in a hospital for 2 full months and then a year of therapy, 3 flavors, I have no intention of repeating that.  We would buy private insurance in any case.  I wouldn't like the feeling of living in a prison camp, not one bit, so it is another good reason to rent, in case I may decide to make a break for it.   One thing that some people are confusing me about: I keep seeing in some places that you reapply for residency every year, and after five years you can apply for permanent residency, but earlier today, I saw that you apply for it, but it's only after 10 years that it's granted, so I need clarification on that.

@Vlado K.

"So, we keep the distance being friendly, and it works just fine. We have some friends who do communicate with the locals quite a lot, but it takes them time and effort (and providing tangible and intangible benefits) to Slovenians to be accepted."

That sounds like my playbook here.  I'm very friendly, maybe because I'm from the south, but I don't try to make any actual friends here, because all of my friends are back in Tennessee and I can call, text, or email them any time I want.  And they know that if they are passing through, they're more than welcome here.  My wife has a couple of friends, but I've intentionally kept to myself at every opportunity, but I'm friendly to everyone.

@Vlado K.

As far as income, we have no problem meeting the 2000 Euro recommended income. 

Hello everyone,

Please note that I have created this new thread from your post on the Slovenia forum for better interaction.

All the best

Bhavna

@tmiket

Hi,

I am with you on the current American situation, and fully understand your desire to escape from crime. We were lucky to live in the lower crime areas - like rural Jefferson, NC, and Galax, VA, areas. Still, those are not even remotely close to super-safe Slovenia. It is really very low crime zone here.

With that said, it is not common here to have 2nd Amendment-like tools. Some people in rural areas do hunt and have hunting shotguns. And some people might even have some semi-legal handguns, yet it is unheard here to carry. And you can forget about bringing anything from the US here, as only Slovenian citizens have the right to possess, with huge legal burden attached.

The similar situation is  with bringing your car here.  It's a huge and very costly headache, which would bring you nothing but troubles.  We do have our American car here, yet it is still on the US registration, as it does not make any financial  sense to register it here. Initially, we planned to "import" it into the EU, pay the appropriate customs duties and taxes, and do all what's needed to be legal here. However, we've abandoned that idea, and the car is still under US plates, and under "tourist entry" after three years of us being here. That's because the duties and taxes are prohibitive - totaling about 33% of the car value. And that's NOT the US tax value, but whatever number the local Customs invent. So, even though  my car has a US tax value of around $10K, they would assess it about three times higher. Meaning, I would have to pay around $10K in taxes and duties. Does that make any sense to you? Not to me, for sure.

Moreover, even before attempting to get Customs clearance,  you must prove that the car matches EU technical, safety, and emission  regulations. For that, they have a process called "homologation" - a technical inspection that has to certify that the car is EU-compliant. And most US-built cars are NOT, for several reasons: first, a car should comply with at least E5 or higher safety standard. Second, the car lighting should comply, and many Amercan cars are not compliant, so you have to change your exterior lights - namely, rear blinkers must be orange, not red. Yet the main problem is, that the cars required to have chassis number embossed in a particular place on the frame, which is not the case with many American makes, having just a sticker on the driver's side roof support.

In my case, I was lucky to get a local friend, who had his friend working at such a technical inspection department, who miraculously arranged those chassis numbers to be embossed on my car's body. And before leaving the US, I myself installed alternative orange blinkers on the rear end, while disconnecting the red ones. Moreover, I've contacted the Slovenian representative office of Ford, who gave me the official letter stating that US-built cars do not carry those embossed chassis numbers....

All in all, that "homologation" thing had taken me about HALF A YEAR to arrange and finalize. But it did not help anyway, as I've given up on registering the car here due to the ridiculously high cost of that. So, now we still drive on our US registration, which I was able to renew online, having new stickers mailed to me from my US mailbox.

Still, the whole thing is "semi-legal", as per the EU law, you can operate your car on its original plates for half a year, and obtain local registration after that. My only "excuse" would be, that we live here on the temporary residence permit, and would eventually take the car out of the country. And that we travel extensively around Europe, living part-time in other, non-EU countries like Montenegro, Albania and North Macedonia.

And the headaches don't end up even here! You have to have a European "Green Card" liability insurance. Which you cannot get in the US, and can hardly get in Europe for a non-European car! I was lucky, being able to find an insurance company in the Netherlands, which provides such an insurance to me. It is not cheap - about $150/month, liability only, and I have to renew it every three months. At the same time,  in order to  keep my US registration, I have to maintain the US insurance, TOO! Which does NOT work in Europe at all... So, I pay another $50 per month for the very basic Geico liability insurance that is absolutely useless here.

Still, it is not all car problems. In order to drive here if you live on a residence  permit, you have to exchange your US driver's license for the  locally issued one within a year from your arrival. For doing that, you have to pass a driving exam, which you can take after taking driving classes with a local instructor. Which you can take after passing local driver's medical exam... And mind you, you have to know the traffic laws AND ROAD SIGNS, that are VERY different, and by far more numerous, to what we are used to in the US... Everything costs, of course. For me, it was some $400 in total, and then I had to surrender my NC license for the  Slovenian one. Make sure it all makes any sense to you, particularly if you have some 50 years of driving experience, and still being schooled by  some 25-year-old local instructor...

OK, and you can forget about even considering to become a supervisor at a local UPS. First of all, because of the language. Second, because of the competition for such a position. Third, because good jobs are given to friends and family, not some foreign  strangers. And fourth, because you can NOT get a job living here on a residence permit that is not connected to a job offer given to you by a local employer.

Moreover, you can NOT get a residence permit if you rent. Only a purchase qualifies. As an option, you can get a residence permit if you register a company here, put a statute capital  of at least 7.500 Euro, invest at least 50.000 in the inventory (real estate also qualifies), and actually maintain that company, demonstrating real operations, obtaining income, and PAYING TAXES. And this option would be a total hell altogether. Taxation in Slovenia is plain terrible. The average rate hovers around 40-45%. Operating an LLC would cost you at least 400 Euro/month in FIXED expenses, PLUS the income tax on top of that. NEVER EVER I would recommend anyone to consider this path here.

With all that said, here is my advice: if you want a quiet retiree's life in a clean, safe, peaceful, good-looking country close to the sea beaches, with good food and relatively healthy environment, that is not-so-much infested with wild non-Christian immigrants YET - you may consider Slovenia. But remember, that you have to own a property here, which will give you the right to be legally accepted. You may even become a part-time landlord (up to 150 days per year), providing short-term accommodations for tourists, which would cost you about 110 Euro/month + 4% tax on the profits. That's doable. But nothing beyond that.

So, keep thinking and researching. And feel free to ask me for my experience.

Best regards!

Walter

Why do you keep trying to talk me out of coming there?  I know you're not intentionally doing that, but you keep giving me roadblock after roadblock.  I have some bit of a sense about bringing your own car over, because once upon a time, many years ago, I was considering relocating to Germany because of a girlfriend there.  In the end, I'm glad I didn't, but not because of the car.  I can promise that I couldn't afford a new car in the EU, most likely regardless of the marque.  So these things will have to be taken into research. 

I tried to come back and edit some of my previous comments, the least important of which, I do live in a safe town.  There has been one murder, and that was committed by a man who murdered his estranged ex-wife out of jealousy or a perceived reason for jealousy.  Most crime is petty, and outside of that would be drug (meth) related.  It's Nashville and surrounding cities that are having all kinds of crime (they want to be Atlanta, so enjoy).  I really do need to investigate moving there thoroughly because you are painting a different image than I'm finding otherwise. 

I noticed you having a short conversation with someone else, where you mention you are moving back to the US.  I am pretty sure if we left here, we wouldn't be able to simply come back because we wouldn't have a house or a job that paid a mortgage, and we wouldn't want to live in a US apartment, so if we move, we have to be certain what we are getting into.  I think we miscommunicate about the residency thing.  If I have to either buy a house or invest in some company simply to stay, that's a no-go.  On the other hand, if I can continuously apply for temporary residency, essentially forever, I can do that.  The car thing, I'd have to look at much more thoroughly.  Inside a city like Ljubljana, I think a scooter would be fine during the warmer months, probably.  Anyway, I'm going to continue doing my own research because I need hard facts.

@tmiket

I absolutely don't. Just the opposite. Yet you asked questions about personal experiences, and I sincerely shared my story with you, providing information that might sound tough but may also be useful in your own adventure.

It's better to be informed about possible issues you currently have no clue about, in order to avoid costly and unpleasant experience.

In regard of having a car, it is, in fact, not that difficult today to buy a good used car in Germany, and bring it in to Slovenia without a need to deal with Customs and taxes. It would be by far cheaper than bringing a nice American car, and then face all the troubles I had, even only partially. It will be cheaper, easier, and by far less stressful. Just keep in mind that automatic transmissions are still quite rare in Europe.

In my case, I wanted to bring my car from the US, because we used it as a "free storage" and "transportation unit" for our personal and household goods that we brought along. It was actually the only reason that made sense, otherwise we would have needed to send our stuff as cargo to somewhere in Europe, without having any contact or any address to use for that. And the cost of shipping at that time was quite reasonable - around $2.000 for the car sent from NY to Rotterdam, jam-packed with our goods, which we picked up, luckily, all safe and intact.

So, definitely you have to come if you are interested in relocating. Come, travel around, feel it yourself, and then you will be able to decide if it's a good fit for you.

Regards,

Walter

You can continuously apply for temporary residency ONLY when  you already have it. And you can have it ONLY if you own a property, or run a local business, or have an official permanent job offer from the local employer. Full stop.

Running a scooter is a fun thing. Yet you have to know that there are somewhere around 300 rainy and foggy days in Ljubljana per year. It sits in between the mountains, and local microclimate is not as pleasant as in many other places around the country. For instance, in the place we live, there are about 50 rainy days per year. So, your scootering idea is good, just the  place for it is not that much.

In regard  of our intention to return to the US, it largely depends on the  November's outcome. And we have no place to  return to, no jobs (we are also retired with very modest SS benefits), so we would need to start all over again if we indeed return. Therefore, it's rather one of many thoughts we consider, researching many other countries, too. 

Still, for now, we are quite satisfied with our life in Slovenia, having a nice house by the river in a quiet tiny village, a 60-mile drive to the Adriatic Sea, good  food, and almost sufficient finances to maintain this way of living as long as we feel like.

So, come, stay, explore, experience, and then decide on how this country may fit your vision of good life.

Good luck!

@Vlado K.

Well, I would plan to sell my Jeep, and we'd take her 2010 Honda Fit.  Not exactly a luxury car by any stretch, and most likely only valued around $8000.00 max today, probably less.  And we damn sure couldn't pack it with what she would take, which would probably fill a 20' shipping container, and we'd have to store it in a storage facility there.  More and more, I'm being talked out of this idea.  Not necessarily by you, but by reality.  I've already started a soft search of other locations, all on the European Continent.  I won't say exactly why I'd want to leave here, but it's not due to crimes, or threats, or even the government, although I do think that in years to come, not only is inflation gonna kill our savings, but it will continue to outgrow our money.

If you care my opinion - don't bring the OLD car along. Sell it, ad a few thousand, and buy a much newer similar car in Germany. If you chose to settle in a EU country, that would be the easiest and smartest way.

Should you decide to explore non-EU countries, that can be different. If you want a really cheap country - look at North Macedonia.  Other options would be Montenegro and Albania. All those are much cheaper than Slovenia, yet they are much less orderly.

Hello,

I hope that @tmiket won't mind me joining in with this discussion rather than starting a new one along similar lines.  This Slovenia Forum isn't really too crowded with posters and, like him, I'm part-seriously/part-idly wondering about life for expats there.

My situation is rather different: I've currently been living in Bulgaria for 20+ years and my wife is Bulgarian; I have both UK and EU passports, so moving would be rather simpler than for an American and certainly less of a culture shock, though Slovenian certainly isn't the closest Slavic language to Bulgarian. I'm retired and my wife will be retiring in a couple of years.

I'm interested in getting a feel for how good(?) the healthcare system is there; how cheap (or not) property is in comparison to Sofia, where we live; what the ongoing expenses, taxes, utilities etc are, and what life there is like in general.

If @tmiket is interested, I can fill him in on life in Bulgaria (which sounds like it might be worth him looking into)...😎