Another Citizenship Verification Post

                The US legal theory is that the Green Card is only for foreigners who intend to immigrate to the US; if you get the Green Card but later spend too much time outside the US you're assumed to have abandoned that intent and forfeited the card.Presumably Hungary has a similar rule.        -@zifI would have to check but those with an Article 50 Card, people with a 5 year card can leave for 6 months. 10 year card can leave for 5 years. Without losing their residency. Thats how it is in Austria.         -@SimCityATSounds about the same as here for Article 50 (Brexit) cards.   Unsurprising as it's EU wide.Currently I'll supposedly get a permanent (indefinite) card in 2027 when the Article 50 card expires.  I'll still have to renew it but it'll be 10 years automatically granted I believe.I've got numerous complaints about the entire stupid Brexit thing of course.  I'm genuinely aggrieved by it. Not going to rehash it.The goalposts might have moved for President granted naturalisation.  Looks like you have to be over 65 to avoid the constitutional exam or be mentally incapable of taking the exam.  I'm sure it was over 60 previously.  But I can wait it out - about 15 months for me to be over 65,           -@fluffy2560Well, I guess I would be good to go since I am over 65.When I got my last card, the 10 year permit, I told the guy I probably would not be alive to get another card.So far I may have to eat my words.The application for HU citizenship is written in Hungarian.My husband was filling it out for me up to the point when they asked why you want it and to tell them about yourself.For some reason is just gave up on filling it out.He keeps saying he is done with Hungary.Been saying that for years now.I can only see having EU citizenship as a perk if I wanted to work or travel around.IDK, not planning on doing either .I think they know that most people reaching their later years are not planning on working or doing allot of free travel around.That is why we have always supported out son when he wanted to see the world. Once you reach a certain point in life, you no longer are all that interested in such things.Always dislike living out of a suitcase and sleeping in a strange bed.The only question I have though is why my doctor asked if I was a HU citizen before he treated me. Makes one really wonder, like it would make a difference?        -@Marilyn Tassy

If Brexit hadn't happened, I wouldn't have bothered trying to find a way around the loss of my rights.  I definitely want to be able to travel and work abroad without a load of hassle.

I am also annoyed for my UK only kids - they've lost their rights to integrate in Europe as have any kids they might have.  My HU kids are OK of course as they are EU citizens.   

When I become a pensioner, I'll be somewhat better off as the bureaucracy won't be after me as much.

On the upside, I've filled in an enormous amount of detail in my family tree trying to find an angle.  So far, not found a thing of any use whatsoever.  Although we're a mini-United Nations it seems.  That's quite interesting but not workable for any advantage right now.

I think the doctor was being a covert a**hole.  There's a  nationalistic thread running through many people here and an embedded dislike of foreigners and strangers encouraged for years by the government.  I think the Hungarians actually fear those from large powerful countries whereas small countries they can feel superior to.  I expect the government thinks twice about detaining any Americans, Chinese, Germans, French etc.  But wouldn't give a damn about detaining someone from Sri Lanka or Tuvalu.

I honestly think you have lived in Hungary and invested enough to become a HU citizen if you wish to.

Even if you wait until you are 65.

No one so far is forcing you out of here.

Your 2 youngests are lucky they speak Hungarian, should not be any issue for them to work here later on if they wish to.

Our son was offered a casino job years ago and even not speaking allot of Hungarian was enough for them. Most of the customers in the downtown casino do not speak Hungarian either.

They just asked him to practice counting out loud in Hungarian so the bosses could know what was going on at his table. Not too hard for him to do that.

He is pretty good with those sorts of things .

That was over 20 years ago and now, I do not think he would be interested in working here at all.

\With is Japanese language skills and his experience in management in casinos in Vegas, he would be better off returning to Vegas and getting a job either in management again or as a casino host with using Japanese. Even if his Japanese is not perfect, it is enough to communicate with guests from Japan.

Pay is over $100,000 a year so well worth practicing his skills in Japanese.

Too bad so far he has no interest in working or living in the US or HU.

Sad to be burnt out by age 40.

Sometimes we think he is just waiting for us to kick it and then he can start living .

    I honestly think you have lived in Hungary and invested enough to become a HU citizen if you wish to.Even if you wait until you are 65.No one so far is forcing you out of here.Your 2 youngests are lucky they speak Hungarian, should not be any issue for them to work here later on if they wish to.Our son was offered a casino job years ago and even not speaking allot of Hungarian was enough for them. Most of the customers in the downtown casino do not speak Hungarian either.They just asked him to practice counting out loud in Hungarian so the bosses could know what was going on at his table. Not too hard for him to do that.He is pretty good with those sorts of things .That was over 20 years ago and now, I do not think he would be interested in working here at all.\With is Japanese language skills and his experience in management in casinos in Vegas, he would be better off returning to Vegas and getting a job either in management again or as a casino host with using Japanese. Even if his Japanese is not perfect, it is enough to communicate with guests from Japan.Pay is over $100,000 a year so well worth practicing his skills in Japanese.Too bad so far he has no interest in working or living in the US or HU.Sad to be burnt out by age 40.Sometimes we think he is just waiting for us to kick it and then he can start living .        -@Marilyn Tassy

I wish my involvement here was enough.  All the time before Brexit was just ignored.  I've got paperwork for it and the guy at the immigration desk just gave it back.  Wasn't interested. Didn't care as the situation was different.   My paperwork from before was just a curiosity.

Obviously I wasn't required to go to immigration previously as I was an EU citizen. So my official life here was reset to zero when the Brexit button was finally pushed.  Everything was forgotten. We've lost the right to work in other EU countries and now I have to go to immigration to renew my permits and so on.  I know others had to do that but we (British) didn't need to do it as we were already part of the EU system. I really used the free movement of the EU - worked in The Netherlands, Germany, Austria and here.  No-one was interested in me at the border.  Now I have to queue up to be treated with disdain and abuse.

Speaking Japanese would be an advantage anywhere.  From what I've seen, Japanese people seem to like being in groups and do things supervised by a tourist guide.   One of my older kids spent 2 years teaching English in a Japanese school.  I am not sure how much language was acquired.  It was in a fishing village/town so very small place.  But no room for advancement obviously.  Paid money but not huge but survivable.  Since then, that particular kid (haha, 33 years old now) works in hospitality as a hotel manager.

I cannot tell you how much I want to slap Boris Johnson with a wet fish.

Small update, the being born out of wedlock thing may pose a challenge in the near future.

I dont exactly know the details, but I am a "almost" citizen now. My address card and hungarian ID are being processed and I can stay indefinitely in this country. Immigration office is off limits to me now as the system will say im a citizen. (Thank god I have been studying Hungarian).

My mother is 100% a citizen now too. The lady did her's first as it would make my case faster.

Seems as if the hungarian birth certificate and citizenship are two different processes. Which is why I can live now as a citizen even though we're trying to figure out how to proceed without my father's acknolwedgment of paternity to aquire a hungarian birth certficiate. Again, I think this step is dumb as my father has nothing to do with this but we'll see. Emails and questions have been sent behind the scenes.

    Small update, the being born out of wedlock thing may pose a challenge in the near future.
I dont exactly know the details, but I am a "almost" citizen now. My address card and hungarian ID are being processed and I can stay indefinitely in this country. Immigration office is off limits to me now as the system will say im a citizen. (Thank god I have been studying Hungarian).

My mother is 100% a citizen now too. The lady did her's first as it would make my case faster.

Seems as if the hungarian birth certificate and citizenship are two different processes. Which is why I can live now as a citizen even though we're trying to figure out how to proceed without my father's acknolwedgment of paternity to aquire a hungarian birth certficiate. Again, I think this step is dumb as my father has nothing to do with this but we'll see. Emails and questions have been sent behind the scenes.
   

    -@SurrealMagyar

Pleased to hear it's going well. 

If you were a minor, they'd probably want proof of parental responsibility and your father would have to be involved insofar as appearing on the birth certificate.  There's always a thing in Hungarian bureaucracy that they do not take into all variations of the "use case" of a particular process.  That means they only think of the simplest situations and have no guidance or rules to deal with different situations.   In the end, the civil servant takes the decision and when they've said it's so, then it is so.  Unlike common law in countries (like Australia), there's no precedence to refer to.   Decisions of a civil servant have no bearing on the law or any other case with the same circumstances. The stamp is all. Roman law vs common law.

Anyway, it sounds like you are getting good levels of attention.  It's not really relevant, but it's an opportunity to whinge like a whinging pom about my lad's British passport. It is only just being issued since I made the application in March.  It's taken over 2 months to get to this position. It's not like it's his first passport - he's always had a British passport.  It's a real problem that passports are not issued in Embassies any more.  They are only issued from the UK.  It's a cost saving measure but with a drop in efficiency and responsiveness.  Contrast with getting his HU passport - issued within 2 weeks - and you can go to the local government office to do it and speak to a real person.   HU: surprisingly efficient, UK: pathetic.

    Small update, the being born out of wedlock thing may pose a challenge in the near future.
I dont exactly know the details, but I am a "almost" citizen now. My address card and hungarian ID are being processed and I can stay indefinitely in this country. Immigration office is off limits to me now as the system will say im a citizen. (Thank god I have been studying Hungarian).

My mother is 100% a citizen now too. The lady did her's first as it would make my case faster.

Seems as if the hungarian birth certificate and citizenship are two different processes. Which is why I can live now as a citizen even though we're trying to figure out how to proceed without my father's acknolwedgment of paternity to aquire a hungarian birth certficiate. Again, I think this step is dumb as my father has nothing to do with this but we'll see. Emails and questions have been sent behind the scenes.
   

    -@SurrealMagyar

Congrats!!

I think the issue is that Hungary doesn't take a birth certificate alone as evidence of parentage when it records a birth in the official ledger of births (whatever it's called) since the mother might list any name as the father. So it wants in addition either a marriage certificate or an acknowledgement of paternity.

    I think the issue is that Hungary doesn't take a birth certificate alone as evidence of parentage when it records a birth in the official ledger of births (whatever it's called) since the mother might list any name as the father. So it wants in addition either a marriage certificate or an acknowledgement of paternity.
   

    -@zif

That sounds about right.  I had to declare paternity of our kids even though I was on the birth certificate.   

When the child is born, the hospital sends the papers to the registration office themselves. Moreover, you have to name the baby there and then in the hospital.    Our first HU child has a complicated name with difficult pronunciation (for Hungarians) and even worse when written down.  That took a few attempts to get right.  But we still see incorrect spelling on some paperwork.

The Registration Office takes a while to issue the documents but if you have a persuasive and calm Hungarian with you, they can do it on the spot.

Quite different to my own country where you can take days or weeks to report the birth or even name the child.  And of course, you can call your child just about anything you like. No standard ye olde naming system.  Also there, if you're on the birth certificate, you've got paternity. It might not be true but they believe it. 

Last update unless someone in the future drops a question:

I have my Hungarian birth certificate in my hands along with all the normal ID cards a citizen may have. I think overall that this verification process is easy if you:

1. speak well enough hungarian or have a relative willing to help
2. your hungarian family tree comes from 1 place, making document collection beyond easy
3. do it IN HUNGARY, and not through an embassy in your birth country.

Any ways, I hope all going on this path finds things as easy as I did and I hope what I wrote here may make things easier for others.

We applied and got our sons Hungarian citizenship through the HU embassy in Ca.

Hungary was still communist then so it was easier to just use the embassy.

It probably is easier to do in person in Hungary now days if possible.

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

        I think the issue is that Hungary doesn't take a birth certificate alone as evidence of parentage when it records a birth in the official ledger of births (whatever it's called) since the mother might list any name as the father. So it wants in addition either a marriage certificate or an acknowledgement of paternity.        -@zif

That sounds about right.  I had to declare paternity of our kids even though I was on the birth certificate.   

When the child is born, the hospital sends the papers to the registration office themselves. Moreover, you have to name the baby there and then in the hospital.    Our first HU child has a complicated name with difficult pronunciation (for Hungarians) and even worse when written down.  That took a few attempts to get right.  But we still see incorrect spelling on some paperwork.

The Registration Office takes a while to issue the documents but if you have a persuasive and calm Hungarian with you, they can do it on the spot.

Quite different to my own country where you can take days or weeks to report the birth or even name the child.  And of course, you can call your child just about anything you like. No standard ye olde naming system.  Also there, if you're on the birth certificate, you've got paternity. It might not be true but they believe it. 
   

    -@fluffy2560

I did dislike how they want to file birth papers within mins of giving birth.

I was still in the delivery room when the clerk came in and asked what name we gave our son.

After he was born they just left me alone in the delivery room while a cleaning lady came in and the clerk! Hawaiian style???

I was still a bit loopy, they gave me gas when I did not want anything.

I miss spelled his middle name which is a long Hawaiian one.

Had to go into the court house later and change the spelling.

Later I legally changed his last name to his fathers, at birth I gave him my maiden name.

Had to appear before a court and judge to do that.

His birth certificate looks so messed up with lines drawn through letter and names being added on.

            I think the issue is that Hungary doesn't take a birth certificate alone as evidence of parentage when it records a birth in the official ledger of births (whatever it's called) since the mother might list any name as the father. So it wants in addition either a marriage certificate or an acknowledgement of paternity.        -@zifThat sounds about right.  I had to declare paternity of our kids even though I was on the birth certificate.    When the child is born, the hospital sends the papers to the registration office themselves. Moreover, you have to name the baby there and then in the hospital.    Our first HU child has a complicated name with difficult pronunciation (for Hungarians) and even worse when written down.  That took a few attempts to get right.  But we still see incorrect spelling on some paperwork.The Registration Office takes a while to issue the documents but if you have a persuasive and calm Hungarian with you, they can do it on the spot. Quite different to my own country where you can take days or weeks to report the birth or even name the child.  And of course, you can call your child just about anything you like. No standard ye olde naming system.  Also there, if you're on the birth certificate, you've got paternity. It might not be true but they believe it.          -@fluffy2560I did dislike how they want to file birth papers within mins of giving birth.I was still in the delivery room when the clerk came in and asked what name we gave our son.After he was born they just left me alone in the delivery room while a cleaning lady came in and the clerk! Hawaiian style???I was still a bit loopy, they gave me gas when I did not want anything.I miss spelled his middle name which is a long Hawaiian one.Had to go into the court house later and change the spelling.Later I legally changed his last name to his fathers, at birth I gave him my maiden name.Had to appear before a court and judge to do that.His birth certificate looks so messed up with lines drawn through letter and names being added on.        -@Marilyn Tassy

It's a muddle for sure! 

UK is quite different to these filings at birth. 

They always let you decide names and registration a few weeks after the birth.

UK is also a bit different on name changes. You can just change your name as you wish.  So long as you're not intending to defraud, it's not an issue. 

Some people publish a Deed Poll.  In that, you simply write a notice saying Duane Pipe wishes now to be known as John Smith. Pubish it in a newspaper.  Job done.

Moreover, gender changes are no issue for passports either.  Birth certificates can also be changed without going to a judge although there's another mechanism for that. 

   
            I think the issue is that Hungary doesn't take a birth certificate alone as evidence of parentage when it records a birth in the official ledger of births (whatever it's called) since the mother might list any name as the father. So it wants in addition either a marriage certificate or an acknowledgement of paternity.        -@zifThat sounds about right.  I had to declare paternity of our kids even though I was on the birth certificate.    When the child is born, the hospital sends the papers to the registration office themselves. Moreover, you have to name the baby there and then in the hospital.    Our first HU child has a complicated name with difficult pronunciation (for Hungarians) and even worse when written down.  That took a few attempts to get right.  But we still see incorrect spelling on some paperwork.The Registration Office takes a while to issue the documents but if you have a persuasive and calm Hungarian with you, they can do it on the spot. Quite different to my own country where you can take days or weeks to report the birth or even name the child.  And of course, you can call your child just about anything you like. No standard ye olde naming system.  Also there, if you're on the birth certificate, you've got paternity. It might not be true but they believe it.          -@fluffy2560I did dislike how they want to file birth papers within mins of giving birth.I was still in the delivery room when the clerk came in and asked what name we gave our son.After he was born they just left me alone in the delivery room while a cleaning lady came in and the clerk! Hawaiian style???I was still a bit loopy, they gave me gas when I did not want anything.I miss spelled his middle name which is a long Hawaiian one.Had to go into the court house later and change the spelling.Later I legally changed his last name to his fathers, at birth I gave him my maiden name.Had to appear before a court and judge to do that.His birth certificate looks so messed up with lines drawn through letter and names being added on.        -@Marilyn Tassy

It's a muddle for sure! 

UK is quite different to these filings at birth. 

They always let you decide names and registration a few weeks after the birth.

UK is also a bit different on name changes. You can just change your name as you wish.  So long as you're not intending to defraud, it's not an issue. 

Some people publish a Deed Poll.  In that, you simply write a notice saying Duane Pipe wishes now to be known as John Smith. Pubish it in a newspaper.  Job done.

Moreover, gender changes are no issue for passports either.  Birth certificates can also be changed without going to a judge although there's another mechanism for that. 
   

    -@fluffy2560

I know this is off topic but you can change your gender without it being legally done and proven in the UK??

I think that is one issue with the Olympic womens boxing. That, person had a passport that said female so they  just took its word...Not really cool to do that.

I know this is off topic but you can change your gender without it being legally done and proven in the UK??I think that is one issue with the Olympic womens boxing. That, person had a passport that said female so they  just took its word...Not really cool to do that.       -@Marilyn Tassy

In short, yes you can do that for UK passports anytime. It's just a personal declaration as far as I am aware. No other legal requirements are needed. No judges or courts.

To change the birth certificate, a Gender Recognition Certificate is required. It doesn't mean any medical interventions are needed or expected.  A panel of experts carry out the assessment. The cost is low, like £5. This means all sorts of government systems change for the individual like the NHS/Healthcare records and driving licence numbers change as they ultimately have gender indicators. There's no references between the old and new. The old name and references just stop and the new one continues.

The Olympic Committee should have asked for the birth certificate rather than the passport but the potentially ultimate test would be a genetic or chromosome test. I would favour this kind of test as it wouldn't be possible to fake it. More discussion here.