Still confused about property taxes in Hungary... 4%? This cannot be!?

    @fluffy2560 Rent can be nasty for the rest USD 1300 is fine (if living modest)
   

    -@cdw057

Yes, USD 1300 is not enough if rent has to be paid. 

Then USD 2000 would be OK but USD 2500 more comfortable.

For a family of four for high comfort, I'd say USD 3000.

    Social Security can only be taxed by the country which pays it out        -@angelarobbins

That's over simplification.   

Anyone with income into HU from the USA could be affected and vice-versa.

From 2024, there will be no DTT so there should be taxes if the situation is not resolved between US and HU. 

Luckily, there is often an agreement on social security but how that works for HU and USA, would need further investigation.

The only way to really find out is to ask professional experts.

    @juliet1980 Please be careful in Portugal with annual property taxes.
   

    -@cdw057

Can you elaborate please? Thanks!

         -@angelarobbinsMany states in the US do not tax social security income at all.  My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?        -@juliet1980

Yes, quite possibly taxed because the DTT will expire. 

As far as I know, there's a tax credit of 90% of tax paid in the USA and 15% will be due in HU.   Without the DTT, if you're a dual national and stay more than half the year, then you're a tax resident in HU regardless of US nationality and what is paid in tax there.

USD 1300 is quite good if it doesn't have to cover rent.  My MIL gets much less than that and she survives reasonably OK financially but she does have some help from Mrs Fluffy and my BIL. She owns her own house.  And of course, doesn't pay for medical treatment.

But in any case, to get a real answer you need to ask proper experts.  Folk in these forums are not experts but expats. We tend to speculate too much.
   

    -@fluffy2560

Yikes, it doesn't seem you have been to the US for many years. You cannot survive in the US on $1,300/month!

Yikes, it doesn't seem you have been to the US for many years. You cannot survive in the US on $1,300/month!        -@juliet1980

If you mean me, I'm not an American so i don't go there unless I'm forced to.   

I meant USD 1300 in Hungary is survivable for one person net of rent and leading a simple life and receiving government healthcare.

    @fluffy2560 Rent can be nasty for the rest USD 1300 is fine (if living modest)
   

    -@cdw057

Would have to HIGHLY disagree with you on that one. Someone cannot live, not in poverty, with only $1,300 in the US eve with no rent or mortgage. I welcome you to come to the US and give it a try and see for yourself. My cousin is on disbility and receivign $1,500/month and it sturggling like crazy. My mother has no mortgage but don;t worry the poperty taxes etc will destroy you. The COL in the US cannot be sustained on only $1,3000/moth!... this is not hungary or ecuador.

        @fluffy2560 Rent can be nasty for the rest USD 1300 is fine (if living modest)        -@cdw057


Would have to HIGHLY disagree with you on that one. Someone cannot live, not in poverty, with only $1,300 in the US eve with no rent or mortgage. I welcome you to come to the US and give it a try and see for yourself. My cousin is on disbility and receivign $1,500/month and it sturggling like crazy. My mother has no mortgage but don;t worry the poperty taxes etc will destroy you. The COL in the US cannot be sustained on only $1,3000/moth!... this is not hungary or ecuador.
   

    -@juliet1980

Not sure what you are on ABOUT. Fluffy said in HUNGARY. After all he lives there.

        @fluffy2560But social security is already taxed by US. It cant be taxed twice.  Pension might be different only.        -@angelarobbins

Many states in the US do not tax social security income at all. 
My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?
   

    -@juliet1980

My husband started reading up on the new tax thing here but got distracted.

It's allot to read up on.

He likes to be somewhat informed before going into the tax office.

We still plan on finding out more although Jan. is coming up very soon.

If they do double tax US SS then it's not a good thing to be here in Hungary. We won't panic but we will seriously get it together and leave .

No biggie, sometimes a person needs  a push to make a big move.

It wouldn't be reasonable for us to stay here and pay out so much every month.

We also aren't interested in staying here or there for 6 months t avoid taxation. Did that in the past just to take a break from working but it costs allot to move around so often and set up shop every 6 months in a new place.

I hope to get to the tax office before the end of the year.

    Social Security can only be taxed by the country which pays it out
   

    -@angelarobbins

I do hope so. Hungary has allot of things happening that would surprise you, If they can make a buck they will figure out a way to get it.

Just the other day FB no longer works .

You must sign up to pay a monthly free to be add free or expose all your personal data to advertizers.

My FB page is blank ATM.

They are charging 6 Euors plus 6 more for every person on FB and it's going up in Jan. to $17. a person to be add free.

I contacted people and tld them you will not find me over on FB any longer.

I'd rather pay for Netflix then FB.

    Yikes, it doesn't seem you have been to the US for many years. You cannot survive in the US on $1,300/month!        -@juliet1980If you mean me, I'm not an American so i don't go there unless I'm forced to.   I meant USD 1300 in Hungary is survivable for one person net of rent and leading a simple life and receiving government healthcare.        -@fluffy2560

A person over age 65 with a limited income of $1,300 per month should be whats' called, "poverty Level" in the US.

They can go into social services and arrange to get US funded Medicare health coverage 100% paid for by the gov. They must be already in the system with the SS office, the social services office will take over the payments every month so it is not taken out of the monthly SS check.

They also quailfy for food stamps. Gov. funded medicare should include many medications each month for free as well. ATM the cost out of a SS check in the US for parts A( that's free for all and is for hospital stays)and part B is around $180. each month, rates go up every year though.

Not sure how much for a single person but at least a few hundreds dollars worth of food each month. Depends on each state, Hawaii was giving my friends son over $450. per month towards food a few years ago.

They aslo may qualify for rental assistance as low income.

Rents at least in Budapest are a min. of $600. a month plus utilities.

$1,300 will do it if your frugal but not going to be living high on the hog here with that much income.

If the person over age 65 is in ill health that is something to consider too. It will take a min. of a year to get on national health .It will not be free if they haven't worked a min. of 15 years in Hungary or are  not now working in Hungary. ATM is costs approx. $30. each month but rates go up every year and services are taking longer to get.

A HU citizen will start to be charged for national health as soon as they apply for it. They however can't use it for the first year. The second year they can use it and not have to pay anything that year.  ( It was pre paid the year before)The 3rd year they pay each month at the going rate.

They make everyone even HU citizens wait a year to be able to use national health in HU.In the past Hungarian citizens returning to HU in their later years often came with serious health issues.

They never paid into the system but started using it right away.

Many died and never paid a penny into the system. One reason they try to stop that. They make you wait a year to be able to use the coverage. If you are working , that's a differnt strory, the employer must pay for it but in rality you are being taxed to pay for it.

We heard stories in the past of people coming back to HU with serious health issues and getting expensive treatments and dying within the first year of returning.

It seems the gov. is gambling that you die before you start using their services.

If you are working , that's a differnt strory, the employer must pay for it but in rality you are being taxed to pay for it.We heard stories in the past of people coming back to HU with serious health issues and getting expensive treatments and dying within the first year of returning.It seems the gov. is gambling that you die before you start using their services.     -@Marilyn Tassy

That's right.

If you have a job, then you can have healthcare as it's compulsory for employees to pay into the system.

I am not sure why there isn't a service to pay some "employer" a fee to employ the newly arrived on a probationary contract for 3 months doing effectively nothing, get into the healthcare system and obtain the TAJ card, then get terminated for say, lack of efficiency (like not turning up), and  then be able to switch to the monthly voluntary payment version.  Maybe that could work.  I don't know.  Maybe someone else does.  It's an expensive way of getting the TAJ card.   Of course the other way is to start your own company and employ yourself.

Mrs F was paying voluntarily for a while because I think if you had a kid under 3 or any of them in full time education,  the mother paid a small amount and it covered everyone (but not the Dad ).   She's got a job now and it seems the kids are still covered.

I hope to get to the tax office before the end of the year.
   
    -@Marilyn Tassy

I'd get there as early as possible because they'll start working part-time early to middle of December.   

Some good news.....

https://bbj.hu/budapest/festivals/in-hu … sa-program

            @fluffy2560 Rent can be nasty for the rest USD 1300 is fine (if living modest)        -@cdw057Would have to HIGHLY disagree with you on that one. Someone cannot live, not in poverty, with only $1,300 in the US eve with no rent or mortgage. I welcome you to come to the US and give it a try and see for yourself. My cousin is on disbility and receivign $1,500/month and it sturggling like crazy. My mother has no mortgage but don;t worry the poperty taxes etc will destroy you. The COL in the US cannot be sustained on only $1,3000/moth!... this is not hungary or ecuador.         -@juliet1980

Not sure what you are on ABOUT. Fluffy said in HUNGARY. After all he lives there.
   

    -@SimCityAT

Whoops sorry thought was referring to US, not Hungary.

            @fluffy2560But social security is already taxed by US. It cant be taxed twice.  Pension might be different only.        -@angelarobbinsMany states in the US do not tax social security income at all.  My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?        -@juliet1980

My husband started reading up on the new tax thing here but got distracted.
It's allot to read up on.
He likes to be somewhat informed before going into the tax office.
We still plan on finding out more although Jan. is coming up very soon.
If they do double tax US SS then it's not a good thing to be here in Hungary. We won't panic but we will seriously get it together and leave .
No biggie, sometimes a person needs  a push to make a big move.
It wouldn't be reasonable for us to stay here and pay out so much every month.
We also aren't interested in staying here or there for 6 months t avoid taxation. Did that in the past just to take a break from working but it costs allot to move around so often and set up shop every 6 months in a new place.
I hope to get to the tax office before the end of the year.
   

    -@Marilyn Tassy

Thanks for info. My mom lives in Florida and Florida does not tax social security income. Depending on how much Hungary would tax social security income that could be a problem. I don't think my mom is aware of this. My mom doesn't understand that the US has citizenship based taxation... she does not listen to me! I feel dumb for asking this... but to find out the answer I would have to call tax office in Hungary? I can speak Hungarian but I have trouble reading and writing Hungarian so I am going to have "fun" figuring out what ph # to call to get info LOL

        Social Security can only be taxed by the country which pays it out        -@angelarobbins

I do hope so. Hungary has allot of things happening that would surprise you, If they can make a buck they will figure out a way to get it.
Just the other day FB no longer works .

You must sign up to pay a monthly free to be add free or expose all your personal data to advertizers.
My FB page is blank ATM.
They are charging 6 Euors plus 6 more for every person on FB and it's going up in Jan. to $17. a person to be add free.
I contacted people and tld them you will not find me over on FB any longer.
I'd rather pay for Netflix then FB.
   

    -@Marilyn Tassy

Hungary charges you to use facebook?

    If you are working , that's a differnt strory, the employer must pay for it but in rality you are being taxed to pay for it.We heard stories in the past of people coming back to HU with serious health issues and getting expensive treatments and dying within the first year of returning.It seems the gov. is gambling that you die before you start using their services.     -@Marilyn TassyThat's right. If you have a job, then you can have healthcare as it's compulsory for employees to pay into the system.I am not sure why there isn't a service to pay some "employer" a fee to employ the newly arrived on a probationary contract for 3 months doing effectively nothing, get into the healthcare system and obtain the TAJ card, then get terminated for say, lack of efficiency (like not turning up), and  then be able to switch to the monthly voluntary payment version.  Maybe that could work.  I don't know.  Maybe someone else does.  It's an expensive way of getting the TAJ card.   Of course the other way is to start your own company and employ yourself.Mrs F was paying voluntarily for a while because I think if you had a kid under 3 or any of them in full time education,  the mother paid a small amount and it covered everyone (but not the Dad ).   She's got a job now and it seems the kids are still covered.         -@fluffy2560

Millions of peoples job is to be self employed and run their own business. In the US if you are self employed you are left out in the cold. Must self insure. I for one, along with millions of other people, are not going to get job and work for someone else (make myself suffer trading time for money being a wage slave having a boss dictate to me what I can or cannot do robbing me of my freedom) just to get health insurance. I am not going to make myself suffer working for someone else just to get health insurance. Many people are not meant to be an employee and I am one of them. It is an ABSURD system in the US!

    Some good news.....
https://bbj.hu/budapest/festivals/in-hu … sa-program-@SimCityAT

This seems similar to what Portugal had but then Portugal recently got rid of?

            Social Security can only be taxed by the country which pays it out        -@angelarobbinsI do hope so. Hungary has allot of things happening that would surprise you, If they can make a buck they will figure out a way to get it.Just the other day FB no longer works .You must sign up to pay a monthly free to be add free or expose all your personal data to advertizers.My FB page is blank ATM.They are charging 6 Euors plus 6 more for every person on FB and it's going up in Jan. to $17. a person to be add free.I contacted people and tld them you will not find me over on FB any longer.I'd rather pay for Netflix then FB.        -@Marilyn Tassy

Hungary charges you to use facebook? -@juliet1980

No it dosen't anywhere in the world.

        Some good news.....https://bbj.hu/budapest/festivals/in-hu … sa-program-@SimCityAT


This seems similar to what Portugal had but then Portugal recently got rid of?
   

    -@juliet1980

Many countries have this kind of Visa when they need some capital injected into the economy.

OMG I am done with my mother. "she knows EVERYTHING". The US will never know what income she gets or doesn't get from social security if she moves to Hungary "because it's from the US" she says. She knows everything and everyone else is wrong and she gets attitude when I try to explain to her and is impossible to deal with or have any intelligent discussion. She is visiting Hungary next month to check it out because she wants to move there since she cannot afford the US anymore. I try to explain to her that her social security income might be taxed if she moves there and that she should talk to tax office person when she is there. She disagrees.

Social security income will be the only income she has because she is retired. The state she lives in the US does not tax social security income. Will Hungary considering she will not be working in Hungary?

It appears NO it is not taxed... but since that "double taxation" protection thing is ending in 2024 that appears it will change this? I have No idea.

This is something I really wanted to find out.... she is there in Hungary next month and could way more easily find this information out than I can... but she won't.

    OMG I am done with my mother. "she knows EVERYTHING". The US will never know what income she gets or doesn't get from social security if she moves to Hungary "because it's from the US" she says. She knows everything and everyone else is wrong and she gets attitude when I try to explain to her and is impossible to deal with or have any intelligent discussion. She is visiting Hungary next month to check it out because she wants to move there since she cannot afford the US anymore. I try to explain to her that her social security income might be taxed if she moves there and that she should talk to tax office person when she is there. She disagrees.
Social security income will be the only income she has because she is retired. The state she lives in the US does not tax social security income. Will Hungary considering she will not be working in Hungary?

It appears NO it is not taxed... but since that "double taxation" protection thing is ending in 2024 that appears it will change this? I have No idea.

This is something I really wanted to find out.... she is there in Hungary next month and could way more easily find this information out than I can... but she won't.
   

    -@juliet1980

She should visit the tax office and ask or obtain advice from experts in the field.  It's the only way forward.  The problem is that no-one really knows if the DTT will expire or not.  It might suddenly be resolved or extended while negotiations take place.  It's better to assume the worst and that it would expire.  You cannot trust anything in Hungary until you have an official piece of paper with an official stamp on it.

    Some good news.....
https://bbj.hu/budapest/festivals/in-hu … sa-program-@SimCityAT

Other countries are being slapped on the wrists over that kind of thing and being stopped as it's facilitating EU migration from places they'd rather not see.  The amounts needed are a drop in the bucket to oligarchs etc.

I believe several countries had to stop it after the EU complained.  I vaguely thought Malta was admonished for it and had to stop. 

I wonder if this HU paid visa job is intended to be confrontational to the EU.  Perhaps a way of trying to up the ante on obtaining the frozen EUR 6 billion in EU funds.

Might be a setup or cover for something or someone specific. 

One never knows what is really going on in HU as the media is so tightly controlled and ignorance rife.

        Social Security can only be taxed by the country which pays it out        -@angelarobbinsI do hope so. Hungary has allot of things happening that would surprise you, If they can make a buck they will figure out a way to get it.Just the other day FB no longer works .You must sign up to pay a monthly free to be add free or expose all your personal data to advertizers.My FB page is blank ATM.They are charging 6 Euors plus 6 more for every person on FB and it's going up in Jan. to $17. a person to be add free.I contacted people and tld them you will not find me over on FB any longer.I'd rather pay for Netflix then FB.        -@Marilyn Tassy

I think you're being scammed.  It's not normal or Euro normal.  FB has always been free.

Are you sure you are on the correct web site?   Did you get there by a search engine or directly typing it in the brower?   

You can install a FREE Ad Blocker in your browser and it won't show the ads.

In my own country, there are multiple scams on things like passport applications. 

All they do is forward the data or phone calls to the real free numbers or addresses whilst charging you a fortune. It's completely wrong. 

Usually people pick up the wrong links by searching in Google etc - makes me think they are complicit in the scam.

You might be being redirected due to something unintentionally installed on your machine. Run your anti-virus checker.

https://www.facebook.com/help/734864594628372

@juliet1980 Depending on where you live in Portugal there can be massive taxes (annually) on your property. Check with your intended domicile. I am Dutch and I know these taxes quite well (they can be massive (depending on official value and income_ a few EUR K EUR per year. I checked in Georgia (gorgegeous country by the way, but 2% annually on your property value wa a put off).

As I understand similar in Portugal, not so in Hungary.

Other disadvantage of Portugal

-How they deal with Healthcare

-Approach to expats is not as friendly as in Hungary

-For owners direction is socialist (often), ie expats might be a victim.

-If you are a pensioner, please check with your income taxes

Intersting on taxes in Portugal

https://imin-portugal.com/blog/property … roperties.

Hungary is easier (and much, much cheaper)

                @fluffy2560But social security is already taxed by US. It cant be taxed twice.  Pension might be different only.        -@angelarobbinsMany states in the US do not tax social security income at all.  My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?        -@juliet1980My husband started reading up on the new tax thing here but got distracted.It's allot to read up on.He likes to be somewhat informed before going into the tax office.We still plan on finding out more although Jan. is coming up very soon.If they do double tax US SS then it's not a good thing to be here in Hungary. We won't panic but we will seriously get it together and leave .No biggie, sometimes a person needs  a push to make a big move.It wouldn't be reasonable for us to stay here and pay out so much every month.We also aren't interested in staying here or there for 6 months t avoid taxation. Did that in the past just to take a break from working but it costs allot to move around so often and set up shop every 6 months in a new place.I hope to get to the tax office before the end of the year.        -@Marilyn Tassy

Thanks for info. My mom lives in Florida and Florida does not tax social security income. Depending on how much Hungary would tax social security income that could be a problem. I don't think my mom is aware of this. My mom doesn't understand that the US has citizenship based taxation... she does not listen to me! I feel dumb for asking this... but to find out the answer I would have to call tax office in Hungary? I can speak Hungarian but I have trouble reading and writing Hungarian so I am going to have "fun" figuring out what ph # to call to get info LOL -@juliet1980

No state in the US taxes SS but HU may start doing it next year.

They tax SS here for people on HU SS .

It's considered income.

That's the question we have , are they going to include US SS and perhaps SS from other countries next year?

I don't have the tax office number on hand. Probably could look it up online..

I sort of doubt though that they will give any real answers over the phone.

No one seems to answer their calls over here.

Have to try several times to get them to pick up.15% tax and 13% or something like that as a social tax.

28% seems insane but that's what they tax workers here on their monthy pay.

We will go into their local office sometime soon. My husband really has to do it because I don't speak any Hungarian at all really and one needs a clear head to deal with office workers.

             -@angelarobbinsMany states in the US do not tax social security income at all.  My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?        -@juliet1980Yes, quite possibly taxed because the DTT will expire.  As far as I know, there's a tax credit of 90% of tax paid in the USA and 15% will be due in HU.   Without the DTT, if you're a dual national and stay more than half the year, then you're a tax resident in HU regardless of US nationality and what is paid in tax there.USD 1300 is quite good if it doesn't have to cover rent.  My MIL gets much less than that and she survives reasonably OK financially but she does have some help from Mrs Fluffy and my BIL. She owns her own house.  And of course, doesn't pay for medical treatment.But in any case, to get a real answer you need to ask proper experts.  Folk in these forums are not experts but expats. We tend to speculate too much.         -@fluffy2560Yikes, it doesn't seem you have been to the US for many years. You cannot survive in the US on $1,300/month!        -@juliet1980

My sister is 76 years old and still works part-time because no ones SS is enough with inflation.

There are always little jobs that can be fun and not too stressful if you look.

I know in Vegas I had some odd jobs and knew many people with odd jobs.

Like the women who worked as a dresser fr Vegas shows, helping them change customs. Anther worked as the <'elephant" women who was carried around in the truck of an elephant.

My freind in Vegas told me anytime I wanted to work again she' set me up with a co, that ran slot machines inside grocery stores and markets. Super easy for a retired person, yu just made change for palyers, made free coffee and gave out soda drinks and water to players.

Most of the time you just were there reading a book or whatever.

I knew a women at my gym in Vegas who lived in the guest house of 2 wealthy gay men. She ran their home for them, told the cleaning people what to do, the lawn people and often was alone in a big beautiful house when the guys were in Europe. Funny thing is these two men owned most of the strip clubs in town! I guess they really didn't mix business with pleasure!

I knew yet another women who was a chef. A big jolly lady who ran adds online for her services. She would fly to places like Dubai and be in charge of the catering fr wealthy Arabs on their ships.

She said they never ate... Just nuts and dried fruits but she could order anything for the crew.

Free travel and not much heavy work.

You mom could always set up a house or pet sitting service that wouldn't be too physically hard to do.

I agree being a wage slave is not for anyone who likes their freedom.

We were lucky , my husband worked for himself as either his own boss in his own machine shop or as a contractor self employeed machinist in small shops calling his own shots with hours he worked and what jobs he would of wouldn't do, decided how much each part he would be paid to do before hand.

I hardly ever worked those years, part -time hairdresser. Would quit when I got too bored with the shop and move on to anther one or take a couple years off of work.

Later I did a fun job in Vegas, learned to be a games dealer. Mostly it was really fun and very different.

I was never just sitting around though, I and our son also worked when needed in our machine shop and I delivered parts and picked up tools etc.

My son got so tired of working that he moved to Japan and now lets his wife do the wrking.

He was a casino middle management floor man for 14 years.

Could of been running a enitre shift of dealers but decided he had enough of working and wearing a suit.

He is still young though ,so he might not be off the hook until he is able t collect his SS.

He might find himself not being able to live off of his SS because working only 20 some years isn't enough these days.

You mother could also search second hand shops etc. for deals and do resale in swapmeets on weekends. If you find the right items you can really make a living doing that. Some states in the US do make you fill out a tax form when selling in swapmeets but many do not.

The US gov. is going to know your mother lives in Hungary if she moves here. They legally must know her where abouts. She also will be charged each month after age 65 for medicare unless she lets them know she is not in the US . They will not charge her the monthly fee if she is out of the US as a resident elsewhere. Only a few countries except US medicare and Hungary is not one of them.

If she ever returns to the US she will need to prove she had health coverage in any country or else they will charge in the furtue a higher rate fr medicare. I think it's 10% more for each year you didn't have medicare unless you were covered somewhere else.

OK, I dislike doing things half way when possible.

I found this number online for the HU tax office.

They may divert you to another smaller office in a district that they chose or that your mother states that she will be living in.IDK.

+36(1) 428-5100

Fax no. + 36(1) 428-5509

If you call and find anything interesting out, please share!

If they do start that silly tax on US SS then $1,300 wouldn't be enough here to be comfortable.

28% out of it will make it tight.

If they start this I'm sure in short order they will go after SS from ther countires soon enough too.

The UK is no longer part of the EU so perhaps they will be next with a big surprize?

Maybe Canada too?

Hard to say, once they see  a way to line their pockets they will not back off.

    @juliet1980 Depending on where you live in Portugal there can be massive taxes (annually) on your property. Check with your intended domicile. I am Dutch and I know these taxes quite well (they can be massive (depending on official value and income_ a few EUR K EUR per year. I checked in Georgia (gorgegeous country by the way, but 2% annually on your property value wa a put off). As I understand similar in Portugal, not so in Hungary. Other disadvantage of Portugal -How they deal with Healthcare-Approach to expats is not as friendly as in Hungary-For owners direction is socialist (often), ie expats might be a victim.-If you are a pensioner, please check with your income taxesIntersting on taxes in Portugalhttps://imin-portugal.com/blog/property … roperties.Hungary is easier (and much, much cheaper)        -@cdw057

Thanks so much for that info it's greatly appreciated!! I have a LOT to learn. I hope when I visit Hungary next year that I have more indication that I can find what I need in Hungary... if so... then I won't even bother with Portugal.

                    @fluffy2560But social security is already taxed by US. It cant be taxed twice.  Pension might be different only.        -@angelarobbinsMany states in the US do not tax social security income at all.  My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?        -@juliet1980My husband started reading up on the new tax thing here but got distracted.It's allot to read up on.He likes to be somewhat informed before going into the tax office.We still plan on finding out more although Jan. is coming up very soon.If they do double tax US SS then it's not a good thing to be here in Hungary. We won't panic but we will seriously get it together and leave .No biggie, sometimes a person needs  a push to make a big move.It wouldn't be reasonable for us to stay here and pay out so much every month.We also aren't interested in staying here or there for 6 months t avoid taxation. Did that in the past just to take a break from working but it costs allot to move around so often and set up shop every 6 months in a new place.I hope to get to the tax office before the end of the year.        -@Marilyn TassyThanks for info. My mom lives in Florida and Florida does not tax social security income. Depending on how much Hungary would tax social security income that could be a problem. I don't think my mom is aware of this. My mom doesn't understand that the US has citizenship based taxation... she does not listen to me! I feel dumb for asking this... but to find out the answer I would have to call tax office in Hungary? I can speak Hungarian but I have trouble reading and writing Hungarian so I am going to have "fun" figuring out what ph # to call to get info LOL -@juliet1980


No state in the US taxes SS but HU may start doing it next year.
They tax SS here for people on HU SS .
It's considered income.
That's the question we have , are they going to include US SS and perhaps SS from other countries next year?
I don't have the tax office number on hand. Probably could look it up online..
I sort of doubt though that they will give any real answers over the phone.
No one seems to answer their calls over here.
Have to try several times to get them to pick up.15% tax and 13% or something like that as a social tax.
28% seems insane but that's what they tax workers here on their monthy pay.
We will go into their local office sometime soon. My husband really has to do it because I don't speak any Hungarian at all really and one needs a clear head to deal with office workers.
   

    -@Marilyn Tassy

Are you 100% sure about this? Many states in the US tax social security benefits (income):

For the 2022 tax year, 11 states tax Social Security benefits: Colorado, Connecticut, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Rhode Island, Utah and Vermont. All other states and the District of Columbia do not tax the payments. Feb 7, 2023

Source: https://www.bankrate.com/retirement/sta … 0payments.

Oh my gosh I am sooo confused! LOL

What makes you think all states in the US do not tax social security income? This doesn't appear to be the case... sadly....

Thanks

   
             -@angelarobbinsMany states in the US do not tax social security income at all.  My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?        -@juliet1980Yes, quite possibly taxed because the DTT will expire.  As far as I know, there's a tax credit of 90% of tax paid in the USA and 15% will be due in HU.   Without the DTT, if you're a dual national and stay more than half the year, then you're a tax resident in HU regardless of US nationality and what is paid in tax there.USD 1300 is quite good if it doesn't have to cover rent.  My MIL gets much less than that and she survives reasonably OK financially but she does have some help from Mrs Fluffy and my BIL. She owns her own house.  And of course, doesn't pay for medical treatment.But in any case, to get a real answer you need to ask proper experts.  Folk in these forums are not experts but expats. We tend to speculate too much.         -@fluffy2560Yikes, it doesn't seem you have been to the US for many years. You cannot survive in the US on $1,300/month!        -@juliet1980

My sister is 76 years old and still works part-time because no ones SS is enough with inflation.
There are always little jobs that can be fun and not too stressful if you look.
I know in Vegas I had some odd jobs and knew many people with odd jobs.
Like the women who worked as a dresser fr Vegas shows, helping them change customs. Anther worked as the <'elephant" women who was carried around in the truck of an elephant.
My freind in Vegas told me anytime I wanted to work again she' set me up with a co, that ran slot machines inside grocery stores and markets. Super easy for a retired person, yu just made change for palyers, made free coffee and gave out soda drinks and water to players.
Most of the time you just were there reading a book or whatever.
I knew a women at my gym in Vegas who lived in the guest house of 2 wealthy gay men. She ran their home for them, told the cleaning people what to do, the lawn people and often was alone in a big beautiful house when the guys were in Europe. Funny thing is these two men owned most of the strip clubs in town! I guess they really didn't mix business with pleasure!
I knew yet another women who was a chef. A big jolly lady who ran adds online for her services. She would fly to places like Dubai and be in charge of the catering fr wealthy Arabs on their ships.
She said they never ate... Just nuts and dried fruits but she could order anything for the crew.
Free travel and not much heavy work.
You mom could always set up a house or pet sitting service that wouldn't be too physically hard to do.
I agree being a wage slave is not for anyone who likes their freedom.
We were lucky , my husband worked for himself as either his own boss in his own machine shop or as a contractor self employeed machinist in small shops calling his own shots with hours he worked and what jobs he would of wouldn't do, decided how much each part he would be paid to do before hand.
I hardly ever worked those years, part -time hairdresser. Would quit when I got too bored with the shop and move on to anther one or take a couple years off of work.
Later I did a fun job in Vegas, learned to be a games dealer. Mostly it was really fun and very different.
I was never just sitting around though, I and our son also worked when needed in our machine shop and I delivered parts and picked up tools etc.
My son got so tired of working that he moved to Japan and now lets his wife do the wrking.
He was a casino middle management floor man for 14 years.
Could of been running a enitre shift of dealers but decided he had enough of working and wearing a suit.
He is still young though ,so he might not be off the hook until he is able t collect his SS.
He might find himself not being able to live off of his SS because working only 20 some years isn't enough these days.
You mother could also search second hand shops etc. for deals and do resale in swapmeets on weekends. If you find the right items you can really make a living doing that. Some states in the US do make you fill out a tax form when selling in swapmeets but many do not.
The US gov. is going to know your mother lives in Hungary if she moves here. They legally must know her where abouts. She also will be charged each month after age 65 for medicare unless she lets them know she is not in the US . They will not charge her the monthly fee if she is out of the US as a resident elsewhere. Only a few countries except US medicare and Hungary is not one of them.
If she ever returns to the US she will need to prove she had health coverage in any country or else they will charge in the furtue a higher rate fr medicare. I think it's 10% more for each year you didn't have medicare unless you were covered somewhere else.
   

    -@Marilyn Tassy

My mother hates pets and animals (she is complete opposite of me). I used to drag all sorts of animals home that I found on the street (injured sick animals I always recused from birds, cats, chickens etc... LOL she "loved" that). She has worked extremely hard her entire life and has helped me a LOT... she dos not want to work AT ALL anymore and I do not blame her. The sad thing is that at my age I should be helping her!! But I have no financial means.... I am working at it that's for sure.

In reality if she she never had a degenerate daughter... me... LOL... she could be retiring much easier now!! She would be better off financially. There is zero chance she will do any work anymore... she just wants to enjoy her life and what little time she has left. She is in Hungary now for 3 weeks... it will be very very interesting to see the verdict. She was born in Hungary and lived there many years... now that she is re-visiting Hungary this month... will she like it enough to move back?

I will know in 3 weeks...

    OK, I dislike doing things half way when possible.
I found this number online for the HU tax office.
They may divert you to another smaller office in a district that they chose or that your mother states that she will be living in.IDK.
+36(1) 428-5100
Fax no. + 36(1) 428-5509
If you call and find anything interesting out, please share!
If they do start that silly tax on US SS then $1,300 wouldn't be enough here to be comfortable.
28% out of it will make it tight.
If they start this I'm sure in short order they will go after SS from ther countires soon enough too.
The UK is no longer part of the EU so perhaps they will be next with a big surprize?
Maybe Canada too?
Hard to say, once they see  a way to line their pockets they will not back off.
   

    -@Marilyn Tassy

Thanks so much for that info! I will see what I can find out and update you on what, if anything, I'm able to find out....

If they do start that silly tax on US SS then $1,300 wouldn't be enough here to be comfortable.28% out of it will make it tight.If they start this I'm sure in short order they will go after SS from ther countires soon enough too.The UK is no longer part of the EU so perhaps they will be next with a big surprize?Maybe Canada too?Hard to say, once they see  a way to line their pockets they will not back off.        -@Marilyn Tassy

They already tax pensions in the UK but of course, the UK and HU have a DTT that's still in operation and won't be cancelled in the foreseeable future.  Same for Canada. It's only HU and USA that has this question.

One interesting thing for the EU (and still the UK) is that if you are in receipt of a government pension, you can be accepted into in the HU public healthcare system without any excessive paperwork or requirements.   I suppose the idea is that you're already fully paid up and no further contributions can be expected.

                    @fluffy2560But social security is already taxed by US. It cant be taxed twice.  Pension might be different only.        -@angelarobbinsMany states in the US do not tax social security income at all.  My mother is most likely moving back to Hungary next year. She gets only $1,300/month and is struggling to survive in the US with that. She has nothing else and is retired. She is too old to work!! Now if she moves to Hungary they are going to tax her on that social security?        -@juliet1980My husband started reading up on the new tax thing here but got distracted.It's allot to read up on.He likes to be somewhat informed before going into the tax office.We still plan on finding out more although Jan. is coming up very soon.If they do double tax US SS then it's not a good thing to be here in Hungary. We won't panic but we will seriously get it together and leave .No biggie, sometimes a person needs  a push to make a big move.It wouldn't be reasonable for us to stay here and pay out so much every month.We also aren't interested in staying here or there for 6 months t avoid taxation. Did that in the past just to take a break from working but it costs allot to move around so often and set up shop every 6 months in a new place.I hope to get to the tax office before the end of the year.        -@Marilyn TassyThanks for info. My mom lives in Florida and Florida does not tax social security income. Depending on how much Hungary would tax social security income that could be a problem. I don't think my mom is aware of this. My mom doesn't understand that the US has citizenship based taxation... she does not listen to me! I feel dumb for asking this... but to find out the answer I would have to call tax office in Hungary? I can speak Hungarian but I have trouble reading and writing Hungarian so I am going to have "fun" figuring out what ph # to call to get info LOL -@juliet1980


No state in the US taxes SS but HU may start doing it next year.
They tax SS here for people on HU SS .
It's considered income.
That's the question we have , are they going to include US SS and perhaps SS from other countries next year?
I don't have the tax office number on hand. Probably could look it up online..
I sort of doubt though that they will give any real answers over the phone.
No one seems to answer their calls over here.
Have to try several times to get them to pick up.15% tax and 13% or something like that as a social tax.
28% seems insane but that's what they tax workers here on their monthy pay.
We will go into their local office sometime soon. My husband really has to do it because I don't speak any Hungarian at all really and one needs a clear head to deal with office workers.
   

    -@Marilyn Tassy

I correct myself.

They do tax SS in the US if you make over a certain amount.

I think for a single person it's over $32,000 in SS payments per year.

A cuple is like $42,000.

After that amount it is taxed at 50%.

One can learn allot from U tube!

I wouldn't give it a second thought about being responsable for your mother.

Not everyone is a family first sort of person.

We never had our son with expections of him taking care of us in our old age.

Actually it's still the other way around!

Everyone is responsable for themselves.

My mother had 6 children and never wanted or asked for any help from any of us.

Some helped her out emotionally and others just took care of themselves.

If my son is happy and  at peace we feel we did our jobs as parents and never except anything, he should pass it on though to another generation but so far no, he is still waiting to grow up at age 47!

I think anyone who has children excepting any return is in for a bad time.

            Social Security can only be taxed by the country which pays it out        -@angelarobbinsI do hope so. Hungary has allot of things happening that would surprise you, If they can make a buck they will figure out a way to get it.Just the other day FB no longer works .You must sign up to pay a monthly free to be add free or expose all your personal data to advertizers.My FB page is blank ATM.They are charging 6 Euors plus 6 more for every person on FB and it's going up in Jan. to $17. a person to be add free.I contacted people and tld them you will not find me over on FB any longer.I'd rather pay for Netflix then FB.        -@Marilyn Tassy

Hungary charges you to use facebook? -@juliet1980

My husband's FB wasn't working either until he agreed to except adds. Mine is still blank, may redo FB but do wonder if someone put a hex on me!

His page for FB had the option to pay mnthly for add free FB or to except adds.

No one else so far here seems to have any issues with it but of course we'd be the first! Just our luck!

I checked it out with U tube and the EU is behind this pay or no pay deal with adds.

They asked my husband if he was willing to pay $11. per mnth.

I heard next year it's going to be $17..00

Really just came out of the blue , didn't even know they were about to make changes.

Then again, I might really have a hex put on me.

    I hope to get to the tax office before the end of the year.        -@Marilyn Tassy


I'd get there as early as possible because they'll start working part-time early to middle of December.   
   

    -@fluffy2560

I hope we get over there soon.

Seems so much is going on at once or perhaps we are just dragging it out?

No matter what happens we will not be able to just pick up and leave that quickly.

I'm not willing to pay out hundreds of bucks each month to live here and not even get a gift basket!

    @juliet1980 Depending on where you live in Portugal there can be massive taxes (annually) on your property. Check with your intended domicile. I am Dutch and I know these taxes quite well (they can be massive (depending on official value and income_ a few EUR K EUR per year. I checked in Georgia (gorgegeous country by the way, but 2% annually on your property value wa a put off). As I understand similar in Portugal, not so in Hungary. Other disadvantage of Portugal -How they deal with Healthcare-Approach to expats is not as friendly as in Hungary-For owners direction is socialist (often), ie expats might be a victim.-If you are a pensioner, please check with your income taxesIntersting on taxes in Portugalhttps://imin-portugal.com/blog/property … roperties.Hungary is easier (and much, much cheaper)        -@cdw057

Thanks for the info but now you have me confused. After I posted on the Portugal forum section here on the EXPAT website I came to conclusion that property taxes are "cheap" in Portugal... at least in comparison to the property taxes in the US! I learned that in Portugal you pay IMT (this is expensive but it is a ONE TIME fee so I have zero concerns or worries about IMT). What I am concerned about are the recurring annual property taxes you have to pay every single year for as long as you own the property and I understand this is call the IMI in Portugal. So if you use this calculator you will see the property taxes are cheap in Portugal in comparison to the US.

You can see here with this calculator what the estimated IMI (annual property tax) you will pay in Portugal depending on country you are in. Here is calculator:

https://www.pordata.pt/simulador-imi-qu … gar-de-imi

For example if you have a house valued at $327,525 the IMI is only €900 (only $982.58). That is SUPER cheap compared to the US where property taxes are several thousands of dollars every year for same property. That's crazy!!!

Another problem is that, in the US (a least in areas I dream to live which in the the north west where the air is dry and not humid because I cannot handle humid climate and where there are beautiful mountains). It is simply NOT possible to get house for only $300,000!! The average home price in Idaho, Washington, Montana etc is over $500,000!!! ... and of course property taxes get VERY expensive the more exensive the value of the property is.

So I am confused why you ay Portugal property taxes are expensive? You mean exensive in comparison to Hungary? Portugal property taxes are DIRT CHEAP compared to in the US!! I used that calculator to cheap in numerous counties... and from what I can tell in entire Portugal is is very cheap property taxes compared to the US. I posted on the Portugal forum wondering why this is the case and of course it's because of the below reason:

"You need to understand that socio economy context  in Portugal is completely different from the US. Our minimum wage is 760€/month before taxes. Owning a house is almost a "luxury". Many people leave in rentals for their whole lives. So, IMI may be cheap for you, but not for most of the Portuguese."

I am EXTREMEKY concerned about the DTT expiring in Hungary. Good for Hungary though that they didn't allow the US to bully them into the global minimum taxation... but it really is big problem then for expats who have US citizenship to live in Hungary because they then will be double taxed (very evil and wrong!!!). I am VERY concerned about this... if DTT really is gone... I don't see how I can ever live in Hungary!!

I would LOVE to renounce my US citizenship but I have stock portfolio at Vanguard (VTSAX, VTIAX, VBTLX) in ROTH IRA and Brokerage account... what happens to my retirement investments? I would be taxed to death and US will always want 30% of it... this is INSANITY. I cannot afford to be taxed 30% on my portfolio.