Dual citizens and FATCA in Greece.

Member since 18 January 2015

TelesillaMember18 January 2015 07:19:00

Hello everybody. I hope you will excuse any mistakes in English. I am a Greek American living in Greece for ... ever (almost). We moved back to Greece when I was only six. Now I just recieved a letter from my bank that I ought to fill in a w-9 form, because the bank needs to comply with FATCA. I looked the whole thing up in the internet, americans are affected in many countries by FATCA, but the greek banks are just starting to search for american persons among their clients. They don't look only for accounts for which an american passport was used. They are looking for "us persons" and this would include all those who were born in the States, even though they don't earn money in the States, or have actually lived in the States. These people are being asked either to fill in an IRS form (w-9) or to prove that they are not american citizens. By signing an w-9 form they actually confirm that they are "us residents for tax purposes. It's soooo complicated. But FATCA affects all Americans living permanently abroad, only, it is very schocking for dual citizens who didn't have a clue about FATCA and everything else. Although I think that the actual agreement between USA and Greece has not been signed yet, the banks have started searching and collecting information about US persons and asking them to sign the irs forms (I don't really know if this is actuallly legal). There is much on the net about FATCA and all kind of problems that it's been causing to americans abroad. Has anybody else been contacted by their bank? Do you know what we ought to do? A bank has told me to sign a W-9 form, another to sign the w-8 form.

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GuestPoster130 Guest

GuestPoster130Guest18 January 2015 07:33:20

For one thing you can go to the American Embassy in Athens and renounce your American citizenship. The reason you are having these problems is that the American government uses 'US citizenship' rather than 'residency' for tax purposes. Because you were born in the States you acquired automatic American citizenship which means you are liable under their laws to pay taxes in the States even though you haven't been resident there since you were six. Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, England, is having the very same problem. A friend of mine in Montreal, Canada was a Vietnam war resister but renounced his US citizenship (he's Canadian now) and is not receiving the kind of letter you got. I may be wrong but renunciation of your US citizenship may be the only option. However, I'm not sure if there are other things you can do. I live in Athens too and have Canadian citizenship, but Canada will only tax you if you are resident there. For tax purposes I am a non-resident citizen.The US is another kettle of fish.

Telesilla Member

Member since 18 January 2015

TelesillaMember18 January 2015 07:55:23

Thank you for your reply. The situation is grotesque. It's so difficult to keep up with all the tax legislations here in Greece lately (especially if someone is selfemployed), it would be life (and money) consuming to try to do the same with the american side. I have read about how the Canadian Americans are trying to respond to the situation and fight back and I feel deep respect. I am worried because nobody seems to care in Greece. Either they haven't realised the situation yet, or they think it will just go away "the greek way". And still we need to find out wether it is legal for the banks to forward any information about us in case the US and Greece have not yet signed. If we don't have to "comply" right away, maybe there would be time for a renunciation, before our information goes to the IRS. Really grotesque. I can not transmit the american citizenship to my kids, but still I am an american citizen for tax purposes (and nobody ever said a word to me about it in the past). Surprise!

Kapuskasing Member

Member since 09 February 2015

KapuskasingMember10 February 2015 10:56:59

Do you earn more than USD$90,000 per year? I read this was the taxation threshold.

Before you renounce US citizenship, think long-term about your children, they might appreciate the citizenship if the Greek economy gets much worse.

OR you could change your name to APPLE INC and reduce your tax burden to beer money!

(I have a property on Kithnos.)

LLGM Active member

Member since 30 December 2014

LLGMActive member30 September 2015 17:38:33

Hi, I'm writing from Canada. I've been following the FATCA issue very closely for about 18 months.

The best resources for asking FATCA questions and getting support in your decisions (about forms at the banks, about possible renunciation and how to go about it) can be found at Isaacbrocksociety dot ca.

People in this blog group also have been funding a Canadian Constitutional Challenge to FATCA via the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (see http://www dot adcs-adsc dot ca ).

Further, you may be interested in the fact that the Republicans Overseas organization is mounting a US Constitutional Challenge to FATCA with 7 plaintiffs from across the world; their very recent attempt to get an injunction against FATCA information being received by the IRS was, unfortunately, denied.

In responsive comment to this court setback (See https://adcsovereignty.wordpress.com/20 … m-lawsuit/), a high level citizenship lawyer involved with this issue said:

My advice to any American abroad is to either move to the United States or renounce U.S. citizenship immediately.
You have NO chance of surviving outside the United States in a FATCA and FBAR world. No chance.
Homelanders simply do not and cannot understand this.
People can understand only what they can conceptualize.
As is well known in the United States, there is no world outside the United States.

Let me know if you have any further interest/questions. I am not an accountant or "compliance" person, just a concerned (now former) US Expat.