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It's frustrating applying for a teaching job if you're Asian looking

Just A Guy
#1
So I got the call after applying for the job online via a reputable career website. I talked to them and they asked me to come for an interview. I told them that I'm Asian looking; and after much hesitation they then told me that they're very sorry but they do not accept Asians. I'm not too disappointed but still annoyed nonetheless. So much for self-hating and foreigner-worshipping the Vietnamese are.
See also
DanFromSF
#2
English teacher?
ssuprnova
#3
Try VUS, they seem to discriminate much less.
Just A Guy
#4
Applied for VUS but they seems to take a long time with their decision process. After I applied, VUS sent me an email saying that they are in the process of selecting the right candidates for interviewing and it's been 2 weeks already. Haiz
charmavietnam
#5
Hierarchy  of English Teachers in Vietnam goes like this:
1. Native American with a TEFL/CELTA/TESOL certificate
2. Native Americans without any qualification  :)
3. Native Australian
4. Native Canadian
5. Native British (yeah British English is last preference in native Teachers  :)  )

6.Others who can speak English with 'white skin'.  :)

7. Asians with qualifications and English Teaching Certificates.

Like any other 'business' , "customer is the King"  :)
Majority of Vietnamese students belief in the above hierarchy so language centers forced to hire.
Just A Guy
#6
Depressing
Adhome01
#7
It's not the schools, it's the parents. The schools would love to hire Viet nationals or Philippine teachers for 1/3 for the pay of a foreigner but the parents want to see a white face. Like any business it's about serving the consumer. Viet parents see an Asian face and they think their child isn't learning English from a fluent teacher. For anyone spending more than a few months in Viet Nam, it's easy to see why a parent wouldn't trust that they were getting their dongs worth. So, it's not about "self hatred" but about getting some kind of guarantee, though not much, that they are getting what they pay for.
DanFromSF
#8
Just look on the bright side:  You'll have an unfair advantage as a math teacher in the US.   Or when auditioning for a doctor in pharmaceutical commercials.  Every country has its stereotypes;  you just need to know how to exploit them.   :D
Just A Guy
#9
LOL but I'm not planning on becoming a Maths teacher in the US. It's totally irrelevant.
stumpy
#10

Just A Guy wrote:

LOL but I'm not planning on becoming a Maths teacher in the US. It's totally irrelevant.


Have you considered another country like Cambodia or Laos.

Just A Guy
#11

stumpy wrote:
Just A Guy wrote:

LOL but I'm not planning on becoming a Maths teacher in the US. It's totally irrelevant.


Have you considered another country like Cambodia or Laos.


I'm of Vietnamese-Chinese background so I'm more familiar with Vietnam than Laos or Cambodia. Would it be easier in the latter two countries, do you think?

milkybunnyHCM
#12
I think S. Korea and Japan discriminate against this a little less but ultimately it's difficult anywhere. Pretty sad since my Asian husband speaks better English than me, technically; yet I would get paid more and get hired easier. :)
howietp
#13
Taiwan might be worth a try. I wasn't able to get a job in the smaller cities but had no trouble in the capital Taipei. There's still discrimination though. I wrote a few ESL test prep books, and the publisher changed my last name from Phung to Phillips. :)
mojoyote
#14
Life ain't fair, is it? I am finding myself locked out of jobs for being too old already.  The hierarchy above doesn't factor in the extra points you get for being young and attractive looking, and extra bonus for blond hair and blue eyes. 

To be fair, a lot of schools are looking for more English education qualifications over any other kind of random university degree.

In Korea, a Master's in any field (e.g. Business or Pharmaceutical Science, as I've seen), gets you a higher starting salary at schools than years of experience teaching, even if you are just starting out.  But there, too, things are changing, slowly but surely.   People are wising up to the fact that just being a native speaker of English does not necessarily mean being a better language teacher.

It does suck that even if you are a native speaker, and a qualified teacher, some places will discriminate about your race, and pay you less than a caucasian, if they hire you at all.

A tip: if you can, rather than dealing with people indirectly via recruiting sites, see if you can't go in and meet the right people face-to-face with your CV and winning personality in hand. The direct approach.  Can you afford to just move to HCMC or Hanoi (where the largest number of teaching jobs are), with a 3 month tourist visa?  Now is a good time to go, with summer coming up and more demand for English classes and teachers.
mojoyote
#15
By the way, if you speak Vietnamese, you may find that demand for your services is higher than you think.  A lot of adult learners (high school, university students and up) prefer someone who can explain to them in their own language "why" certain things are the way they are in English (along with the "what" and the "how," etc.). There is a greater level of trust between Vietnamese and others of their kind.  They stick together, even when one of their own is in the wrong, when someone is involved in a disagreement or dispute with a "'foreigner."

And caucasians face all kinds of discrimination and abuse on a daily basis, from getting yelled at repeatedly by motorbike cabbies looking for a fare, in the loudest, rudest, most annoying way imaginable, when you are just minding your own business, walking around, and not looking for a ride,  to being charged triple for a can of beer at the corner store (all "foreigners" are loaded with money, you see, and those colonial imperialists have this abuse coming to them, on top of it...).  You would at least be avoiding some of that unpleasantness if you move here.
Mohit kumar sharma
#16
Dear friend;
Asian is almost intelligent in business.. Please try to any kind of trading.. Its more profitable.. N enjoy full.. Cheers:)
best of luck..
Mohit kumar sharma
#17
Dear im sorry but..
i shd not use that kind of word here, but
if you are in India; almost in America, Canada, Britain, Arabian countries.. All most business person is INDIANS..even peoples says that Indians is poor...
if you are Chinese, then i does need to explain you.. China is world famous in business
about Vietnamese, they are following western to learn them.. But Asian is Asian.. Our culture n traditional.. Is world famous!
im proud of be an Asian..
   wish you all the best..
Just A Guy
#18

howietp wrote:

Taiwan might be worth a try. I wasn't able to get a job in the smaller cities but had no trouble in the capital Taipei. There's still discrimination though. I wrote a few ESL test prep books, and the publisher changed my last name from Phung to Phillips. :)


Hi,

How did you get the job in Taiwan? Did you actually get recruited first before moving there? Sounds like a good option to me.

Just A Guy
#19

mojoyote wrote:

Life ain't fair, is it? I am finding myself locked out of jobs for being too old already.  The hierarchy above doesn't factor in the extra points you get for being young and attractive looking, and extra bonus for blond hair and blue eyes. 

To be fair, a lot of schools are looking for more English education qualifications over any other kind of random university degree.

In Korea, a Master's in any field (e.g. Business or Pharmaceutical Science, as I've seen), gets you a higher starting salary at schools than years of experience teaching, even if you are just starting out.  But there, too, things are changing, slowly but surely.   People are wising up to the fact that just being a native speaker of English does not necessarily mean being a better language teacher.

It does suck that even if you are a native speaker, and a qualified teacher, some places will discriminate about your race, and pay you less than a caucasian, if they hire you at all.

A tip: if you can, rather than dealing with people indirectly via recruiting sites, see if you can't go in and meet the right people face-to-face with your CV and winning personality in hand. The direct approach.  Can you afford to just move to HCMC or Hanoi (where the largest number of teaching jobs are), with a 3 month tourist visa?  Now is a good time to go, with summer coming up and more demand for English classes and teachers.


I'm thinking of photocopying my qualifications and other supporting documents and just hand them in directly. What do you think?

mojoyote
#20
Well you could attach copies to your CV. I think it's normal to have a CV to show when looking for a job.  Most important is that you meet the person responsible for hiring, make a good impression, and hopefully be in the right place at the right time.  Be prepared for some rejection, and it could be simply because they are overstaffed or don't have enough classes to hire more teachers at the moment. As they say in the sales business, if you only get one sale out of say, 20 or even 100 attempts, then the more rejections you get, the more sales you get, and the better a salesperson you are!  Still, the summer months are the easiest to find a job here.  Students are out and wanting to improve their English, and a lot of teachers take off during that time to travel, return home and stuff, too.  Good luck.
Just A Guy
#21

mojoyote wrote:

Well you could attach copies to your CV. I think it's normal to have a CV to show when looking for a job.  Most important is that you meet the person responsible for hiring, make a good impression, and hopefully be in the right place at the right time.  Be prepared for some rejection, and it could be simply because they are overstaffed or don't have enough classes to hire more teachers at the moment. As they say in the sales business, if you only get one sale out of say, 20 or even 100 attempts, then the more rejections you get, the more sales you get, and the better a salesperson you are!  Still, the summer months are the easiest to find a job here.  Students are out and wanting to improve their English, and a lot of teachers take off during that time to travel, return home and stuff, too.  Good luck.


Thank you so much, you've just given me plenty of strength to go out there and keep searching and applying. Much appreciated bro.

howietp
#22
I didn't go through a recruiter. Most people just show up and look for work. You might check out tealit.com for jobs in Taiwan.
G
#23
Are you currently in Vietnam or Australia? Yes, it is frustrating applying for a teaching job if you are Asian looking. Trust me, I know! Anyway, if you are in Saigon, I might be able to help you out. Just send me a private message.
Tutenkamen
#24
Maybe try some of the schools outside of the main cities. My fiancés father and mother live in Cu Chi, Viet Nam and have been wanting me to teach up there. It's about an hour drive on motorbike. I passed but the school did just a hire a Korean man to teach at the school. The pay starts at $24 an hour. It is an AMA school; American Academy.
Just A Guy
#25
I'm based in district 1 so it's very hard for me to looking for jobs further out from the center. I've got a few evening English classes going so that should cover some bills and living expenses. Hihi
Tutenkamen
#26
Well, I must admit that this belief that only non Asian Americans, or non Asian Brits. or non Asian Aussies are best at teaching English is just plain ignorance. If it's not ignorance, then it's racial prejudices. Also, I have never seen a Black English teacher anywhere in Asia. Maybe that is why they like you to send a photo when applying for an English teaching job.  I'm not Black.

A U.S. college degree is over rated. First off, take notice of the test scores coming out of America. Each year the test results fall and fall. School systems in America have to keep lowering the standards so they can reach their quotas in passing students. I know this for a fact. Many of the students are illiterate when they move on to the next higher grade or they graduate from high school this way. Research it..it's the truth. The 'NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND PROGRAM'.  Graduate 'em even if they are ignorant.

And these Asian schools that teach English don't know any better. The people that either own or run these English schools in Asia or anywhere else...have no idea about what id truly going on in America. And most Americans don't have a clue either. They're too bust watching Dancing With The Stars, Miley Cyrus, or keeping track of 'ball games' and the latest dance grooves and moves.

Have you ever thought about getting with 2 or 3 non Asian teachers to start your own tutoring / teaching business? Based on my experience, many of the VN teachers I work with have a very heavy VN accent. This strong accent is this passed on to the students. Many times when I then have the students, I take time to back up and teach then how to say their ABC's and to lose that heavy accent.

This belief that only non Asians ( or White people ) are the best or only ones skilled in teaching English is ridiculous and out dated. In addition, I know of and see many many non 'degreed' people that can read, write, and speak English better than so called 'educated' people coming out of colleges and universities in America.
Just A Guy
#27
I totally agree with you. I think I've been passed over many times for candidates who were less qualified and experienced than me just because I'm an Asian person and that person happens to be Caucasian-looking. It's partly racial discrimination, partly self-loathing in Vietnam; and to a lesser extent, other Asian countries.

Most Vietnamese are so terrible when it comes to self-belief. Everything American, Australian or British MUST be great and anything Asian (except for maybe Japanese or Korean) is substandard.

*sigh*

I can't change that perception so I'm exploring other avenues.
Tutenkamen
#28
Hello.  Since living in the US and researching so much and do many issues of both it's history and present, the US is over rated both by Americans and foreigners that are fed information by the media and other sources.

So much if the "good" is genetically modified (gmo) , the waters are polluted and / or fluoride is added to the drinking water.  The so called medicines can kill you or create serious side effects.  The US and it's citizens are trillions upon trillions of dollars in debt. The biggest export is war and killing. College grads are in debt from student loans and can't find jobs. Politicians lie lie lie and are owned by the corporate world. Serious diseases are at all time highs. People are losing their investments and getting higher all the time is people having to get assistance from the so called government.  And many more issues taking place.

The US presents a false narcissistic image to the rest of the world as if it is a symbol of ethics and morality for all others to follow.  That us all a load of garbage.  For starters , it never was founded on equality, justice, and freedom for all. It was built upon genocide of the native peoples already living there when all the Europeans began arriving in "America". 

What do you have in mind that you will do now?
Armand
#29
Hi Tutenkamen,

One thing i know is that you are getting way off topic.
I would suggest sticking to the subject.

Thanks
Armand
Expat.com Team
Tom Lee
#30
Well.....I concur with you but to a certain extent. Yes, Vietnamese parents prefer Native speakers because of their accent. They are the customers so schools sometimes have no choice but to deliver what the Vietnamese parents want. But There are some Asian teachers who are doing well too working in schools and on private time. I think the most important thing is that all teachers should have a good teaching method and philosophy . I am an Asian teacher myself so you need to demonstrate your skills and abilities and use the results to prove yourself. Don't be discouraged there are still many Vietnamese students out there who are not discriminating a teacher's nationality background. Patience and perseverance coupled with a positive outlook will get you through. I believe the same rule applies if an American student in US who wants to learn Vietnamese, he or she would naturally choose a Vietnamese than an American-Vietnamese or a pure American who know Vietnamese language.

Use "Expat.com" to look for students. It's been pretty effective for me so far with some hits and misses. Most of my students are recruited from this blog.

Good luck to your job hunting, hang in there;-)
Adhome01
#31
No worries, in a few years most of the schools will have local Viet's teaching their English classes for $2 per hour. Unfortunately for the students the tuition will probably stay the same.  :(
Just A Guy
#32

Tom Lee wrote:

Well.....I concur with you but to a certain extent. Yes, Vietnamese parents prefer Native speakers because of their accent. They are the customers so schools sometimes have no choice but to deliver what the Vietnamese parents want. But There are some Asian teachers who are doing well too working in schools and on private time. I think the most important thing is that all teachers should have a good teaching method and philosophy . I am an Asian teacher myself so you need to demonstrate your skills and abilities and use the results to prove yourself. Don't be discouraged there are still many Vietnamese students out there who are not discriminating a teacher's nationality background. Patience and perseverance coupled with a positive outlook will get you through. I believe the same rule applies if an American student in US who wants to learn Vietnamese, he or she would naturally choose a Vietnamese than an American-Vietnamese or a pure American who know Vietnamese language.

Use "Expat.com" to look for students. It's been pretty effective for me so far with some hits and misses. Most of my students are recruited from this blog.

Good luck to your job hunting, hang in there;-)


So how do you actually look for Vietnamese students on Expat.com? Did you post your advert in the jobs section?

But yes, I do agree with you, you'll need to have a positive outlook and keep your head up. Maybe can catch up for a coffee some time. kaka

bluenz
#33

charmavietnam wrote:

Hierarchy  of English Teachers in Vietnam goes like this:
1. Native American with a TEFL/CELTA/TESOL certificate
2. Native Americans without any qualification  :)
3. Native Australian
4. Native Canadian
5. Native British (yeah British English is last preference in native Teachers  :)  )

6.Others who can speak English with 'white skin'.  :)

7. Asians with qualifications and English Teaching Certificates.

Like any other 'business' , "customer is the King"  :)
Majority of Vietnamese students belief in the above hierarchy so language centers forced to hire.


That was last year, now it's more like,
1. Native American with any UNI degree and a TEFL/CELTA/TESOL certificate
2. Native Americans no degree , but 5 yrs teaching experience, with TEFL/CELTA, etc 
3. Native Australian with degree and TEFL/CELTA, etc or 5 yrs exp.
4. Native Canadian with degree and TEFL/CELTA, etc or 5 yrs exp.
5. Native British  with degree and TEFL/CELTA, etc.or 5 yrs exp.
These are for Work Permit requirements, anything else comes under No 6, ie, pre school.

6.Others who can speak English with 'white skin'.  :)
7. Asians with qualifications and English Teaching Certificates.
I know of schools where they prefer Aus/ENg/NZ/Canadians over Americans, so there are exceptions.

bluenz
#34

bluenz wrote:
charmavietnam wrote:

Hierarchy  of English Teachers in Vietnam goes like this:
1. Native American with a TEFL/CELTA/TESOL certificate
2. Native Americans without any qualification  :)
3. Native Australian
4. Native Canadian
5. Native British (yeah British English is last preference in native Teachers  :)  )

6.Others who can speak English with 'white skin'.  :)

7. Asians with qualifications and English Teaching Certificates.

Like any other 'business' , "customer is the King"  :)
Majority of Vietnamese students belief in the above hierarchy so language centers forced to hire.


That was last year, now it's more like,
1. Native American with any UNI degree and a TEFL/CELTA/TESOL certificate
2. Native Americans no degree , but 5 yrs teaching experience, with TEFL/CELTA, etc 
3. Native Australian with degree and TEFL/CELTA, etc or 5 yrs exp.
4. Native Canadian with degree and TEFL/CELTA, etc or 5 yrs exp.
5. Native British  with degree and TEFL/CELTA, etc.or 5 yrs exp.
These are for Work Permit requirements, anything else comes under No 6, ie, pre school.

6.Others who can speak English with 'white skin'.  :)
7. Asians with qualifications and English Teaching Certificates.
I know of schools where they prefer Aus/ENg/NZ/Canadians over Americans, so there are exceptions.

Happy8888
#35
The exception is what someone is prepared to sell their soul for and f#ck it up for everyone else "horses for courses "
Tom Lee
#36
Yes, I normally post my ads there and when the students like to study under you they'll recommend their friends. I think word of mouth advertising is effective here.
We can have a coffee mate....I live in Le Van Sy , what about you?
My number is 0985257731.

Cheers
breitho
#37
I am agree with you here.
G
#38
Congrats on the new job! :-) wohooo
Shelf-Agent
#39
Just to share some thoughts.

I don't think most of Vietnamese schools and Vietnamese parents discriminate Asian-looking English teachers. Like mojoyote has pointed out, if you come to meet the person-in-charge of recruitment face to face, you have better chances if you speak English as your native languages even if you are of Asian descent. Being a parent who has a child studying in an international school and pay a heavy tuition fee (between USD 15K to 20K every year), I surely don't want my son to learn to speak "Singlish" or English with Filipinos accent (no offence) from his school teachers.

Regarding the hierarchy of English teachers in Vietnam which charmavietnam has shared, in my understanding, there is a "historic" reason behind it. After the Vietnam wars, many Vietnamese migrated to USA, Australia and Canada (these countries accepted Vietnamese migrant whilst UK did not). Consequently, many Vietnamese families here have relative living in those countries and want to send their children there for studying and living. All parents who send their children to international school in Vietnam have made the choice to give their children overseas education after school (these children cannot go back to Vietnam education system once they join international school). I suppose it's just natural for parents and then schools to want to have their children speaking English like American, or Australian, or Canadian (so that their children hopefully will suffer less discrimination when they study overseas). Teachers from UK therefore can only blame their government for not being very welcome in Vietnam :).
Just A Guy
#40

sjgirl03 wrote:

Congrats on the new job! :-) wohooo


Lol thanks . I wish i could go to ur 4th july dinner but i'm still taking evening classes until this sunday. How about dinner some time next week? Haha

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