Indonesia in bottom three Edcuation systems in the world

indostocks Contributor

148POSTS

11 years ago

#41

Second time that you have compared me to a Mickey Rourke character, Roy.

Inadvertently so, since a scene in this movie was set on "my" property in Yogya.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#42

Not surprising you appreciate the comparison to that particular character in Java Heat.

Yes, the set directors were brilliant in their choice of some of the “raw” neighborhoods of Yogy.

Were you paid, or did they simply hand out some nasi bungkus?

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#43

Some scenes were filmed in Wonosobo.

kenjee ViP

19610POSTS

11 years ago

#44

Hello all

Could we please stay on the initial topic please?

All irrelevant posts will be removed if not.

Regards
Kenjee
Expat.com team

saintjean Guest

0POSTS

11 years ago

#45

I do not know of Pearson Index? Indonesia is very beautiful land. I agree it is impossible that education is bottom three in the world. Mikewallace is making up this information I am sure.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#46

Perhaps Kenjee in his role as a moderator will rethink his position and plans to remove future irrelevant posts and simply remove the entire string as the whole premise which initiated this topic is both irrelevant and entirely false.

Just Google Pearson Index or Pearson Education if you feel inclined to learn more about them.

VenzeGirl Member

12POSTS

11 years ago

#47

In latin amercia we actually know about Pearson index. I do not think there is any false information in the index. It just rely on how the index is calculated. But for latin america it is a respectable index on education. Education in Venezuela is very bad unless you are rich. I think is same for Brazil. Maybe it is same in Indonesia.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#48

VenzeGirl wrote:
Education in Venezuela is very bad unless you are rich. I think is same for Brazil. Maybe it is same in Indonesia.

There is little argument, the poorer state schools in Indonesia aren't competing to be the best in the world, but private education can be pretty amazing.
I recall walking past a senior high school in Jakarta, when the English teacher called me for a chat.
We had to use Indonesian as I couldn't understand a word she said in English. I've found that to be true of many schools. I've also met Indonesian teachers from International schools who speak with beautiful English accents, and some with American accents as well.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#49

I've gone wild, taking a serious look at the results, and the data behind them.

This page is telling.

http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com/cou … /indonesia

Note the school life expectancy at just under 13, teachers' salary, the lack of available cash, then tell me why Indonesia isn't top of the game.

Indonesia is a young country coming out of a difficult time, but I believe it can improve rapidly.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#50

I believe general poverty is more to blame than the education system as such.
I see so many kids who are forced to drop out of education at junior high level - they simply don't have the cash to continue.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#51

VenzeGirl, what index is taken more seriously in Latin America…the Pearson Index which has only been around for three years and run by private for profit enterprises, or the UN Index which has been around since 1980 and operated by the UN?

How does one account for the disparity between the Pearson Index and the UN Index?

My primary objection to this string starts with its title, “Indonesia in bottom three Edcuation (sic) systems in the world.”

And from there it gets worse with several additional statements made by the originating poster which are simply false. Those additional false statements are all discussed within the content of the discussion.

Fred, under Jokowi’s new social plans, how can it be today that a junior school student from a poor family cannot afford high school when in fact they would be eligible for SMU without cost?

Bidara sary Serial expat

274POSTS

11 years ago

#52

Not only poverty to blame but the awareness for education that contribute bigger to the poor education.village people commonly think that education is not important..
With new president I have the feeling that he will do his best to make education accessible for every kids.
And his determination that inspired me to do my part to contribute to my country

VenzeGirl Member

12POSTS

11 years ago

#53

In Venezuela many children not going to school as family is too poor. The family make children to beg or search in rubbish site or collect plastic bottles and empty tin cans so can earn small money to buy food. This is reason why many children in our country cannot even go to free school. Yes, the school is free but no every family can buy school clothes or food to live. More important than school is to eat for very very poor people. Maybe Indonesia also have this problem?

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#54

Bidara sary wrote:
Not only poverty to blame but the awareness for education that contribute bigger to the poor education.village people commonly think that education is not important..
With new president I have the feeling that he will do his best to make education accessible for every kids.
And his determination that inspired me to do my part to contribute to my country

I lived amongst very poor people for over two years, so I have a fair handle on many 'village' problems.
You are correct, many parents see education as less important, but many more simply don't have the cash to send their kids to school. More girls leave school at the primary to JHS switch that boys, this being because boys tend to be the family wage earner in a marriage, so get more chances than girls.
Yes, it's wrong.
Yes, it's sexist.
It's also really when a family has to make a choice between sending a kid to school and eating.
That's also the cause of young marriages. Most aren't older men wanting sex with 14 or 15 year old girls, the husbands are usually very young as well, most being just a few years older than the girl.

Curing the problem is hard work, but can be done. The lack of cash won't allow quality schools, but you can improve them. Much of the problem for extremely poor families in the cost of uniform, books and other stuff.
Scrap the uniform and supply pencils and books. Little cost and not as neat, but it'll help get kids to school.
Teachers are also a problem. The salary is hardly minimum wage, many getting as little as Rp200,000/month, so all the good teachers go to top schools, leaving the poor schools with the lesser quality people.
I do have one radical suggestion.
Do an IQ test at the lowest possible age, giving free education, all inclusive, to the top 10%.
I see men playing chess, but they live on rubbish dumps. Chess isn't a game for dumbos, so that means brains are being wasted.
If these people get a good education, they're very likely to use their increased earning power to assist their families, pulling whole groups out of the poverty cycle.
Long term, but it'll probably work.

Bidara sary Serial expat

274POSTS

11 years ago

#55

Agree with you mas Fred.there were many brainy kids out there in the village who simply have to sacrifice their education to help parents make a living.and those poor kids mostly are girls at the end they choose to go overseas as domestic helper( I'm one of those unfortunate girls

,) but to my disappointment there were some who think education really doesn't matter even though they can afford it.they prefer to go aboard to work Instead,and when I asked why don't they continue at least till senior high school.and you know what was the answer? Without hesitation they answered,'"why must study high,when at the end you'll end up in the kitchen.what a waste of money" argh it fist me of really.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#56

I hate to repeat myself, but please allow me to repeat myself.

Each and every day in Indonesia, poverty becomes less and less of a reason for lack of education. Jokowi has already implemented health care and education reforms targeted precisely for the impoverished of Indonesia. This all started last November, right after he took office. His 9 point plan, and “income top-up scheme” (of which reducing fuel subsidies is just one part) “is planned eventually to cover 86.4 million people in 15.5 million households—a third of Indonesia’s population. That would make it the largest such programme in the world.” -Source, The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/internati … ll-promise

Scraping the uniform requirement in Indonesia’s public schools would be a very bad idea. It is the singular “equalizer” and allows for maintaining dignity and lack of identity between those who are poor, and those who aren’t. Moreover it is an essential element in creating school pride, as well as self pride and self respect. IMHO it would be a huge mistake to eliminate this feature of Indonesia public education. The excuse “the parents cannot afford the uniforms” is no longer applicable, as the government program already in place will pay for those uniforms for those who cannot afford them.

As for the IQ test suggestion, it has already been discussed on this thread that identifying “the best and brightest” is already a feature of Indonesia’s public education. Post #2 of this string:

“The way the current system works is to try to identify the “best and brightest” minds, regardless of their economic status and put those students into educational programs designed to provide the best opportunity for them to reach their potential. Our own governor, I Made Mangku Pastika is a perfect example of how this approach can benefit even the poorest of the poor.” And, btw, our President Jokowi can be added to the list of currently prominent Indonesians who were early on recognized as a prodigy (Wunderkind).

In my own experience the main reason I see for students not carrying on with further education is their need in the family business as a worker, or quite simply, a lack of desire. That family business can be anything from agriculture to product production, and the skills necessary for success are most often handed down and taught by the family, than learned in schools.

In my neck of the woods, many of the wealthiest and most successful Balinese I know are very often the least educated…and I mean, less “formally” educated.

Fred writes, “Chess isn't a game for dumbos, so that means brains are being wasted.”

Indeed, chess isn’t a game for dumbos, but who is to say the brains are being wasted? At the core of this issue is more likely a lack of incentive or initiative to “do more” and that my friend is a totally western ideology of how we are supposed to live. But, that ideology says nothing about how to live a happy and comfortable life.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#57

Its very hard to reeducate those who went through the Indonesian education system and then had children who were not pushed supported or maybe even taught at school. The issue should always be how to support today's teachers to make today's students stronger. Having those in the class now especially the young ones see how education with benefit can only improve the future.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#58

To an extent Luke I would agree with you, but, let’s not get bogged down on western ideas of education.

For example, each year in the US more and more kids are graduating college with 4 year degrees, but they are totally useless as they don’t know how to do a single useful thing. Most westerners tend to think that it’s essential for their children to go to college…but why? In many cases a trade or vocational school would be far more preferable over a useless 4 year college degree (and to which the college diploma is most often attached a huge student loan debt).

When did we start to attach some sort of stigma to those parents who didn’t send their kids to college, but rather sent them to a vocational, or trade school? What is more useful and likely to produce long term happiness for some kids…a four year college degree in liberal arts, or a certificate as a master plumber…and on and on.

lukereg ViP

2114POSTS

11 years ago

#59

I couldn't agree more. The over privileged kids I teach often no concept of any form of manual or skilled work and shudder if the concept is mentioned
Vocational skills are often looked down on because the students believe they are above that. I for one dont like that. I also know my son will be given the best education I can provide and I will help to learn more practical skills so he can be more useful than a degree holder in media studies or hospitality.
Most English families I know in England understand the usefulness of academic qualification as well as practical hands on skills. Part time work at college or university helps ground young adults althougg due to the Alphard culture here that just won't happen.
Interestingly enough my company takes on university students who are still studying and we have a great range of individuals who work with us. And once they graduate some remain and there skills, the vocational life ones become very strong.
But I will always maintain the family must direct the child's education and the teachers must support them not the other way round. Hopefully people agree with that sentiment.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#60

The uniform may level the field, but not to the many families that can't afford it, so can't send kids to school.
The price of the uniform may well be tiny, but if your salary is also tiny?

Bidara sary Serial expat

274POSTS

11 years ago

#61

Everything will down to everyone's choices,whether they wish to have better education or not.and of course things in live must have a balance.

Ubudian Indonesia Expert

3214POSTS

11 years ago

#62

"The uniform may level the field, but not to the many families that can't afford it, so can't send kids to school. The price of the uniform may well be tiny, but if your salary is also tiny?"

For the third time!!!...

the cost of the uniform is no longer an issue as the government will pay for the uniform for those families who cannot afford it.

Fred Indonesia Expert

30549POSTS

11 years ago

#63

Ubudian wrote:
"The uniform may level the field, but not to the many families that can't afford it, so can't send kids to school. The price of the uniform may well be tiny, but if your salary is also tiny?"

For the third time!!!... the cost of the uniform is no longer an issue as the government will pay for the uniform for those families who cannot afford it.

I wonder if that'll actually happen.
So far, the intention and the reality aren't the same thing, at least in some places.