Buying property in Hungary

Hi Ebb,

1. It's hard to tell. Probably yes - compared to other European capitals, apartments in Budapest are cheap (even when taking into account the difference in incomes). However, I've noticed that over the past 5-6 months, the really great deals are gone; I was thinking of buying a second apartment and visited a few last September. Not only that all of them were bought up quickly, I haven't really seen any deals that were nearly as good since then. Still, medium and long-term, I don't think you're losing money if you buy a good apartment now.

2. Well, Hungarians are conflicted about some of the areas of those two districts as well. I know people who live in the 7th, in the Keleti/Garay area, and like it, while others would not consider living there. From what I've seen, none of those areas are really terrible - perhaps more than anything, you need to make sure you're in a 'good', civilized and well maintained building, and you'll be fine.

3. On the Duna House page you can read their monthly reports, where they publish data on the real estate market; they also report on those margins. If I remember correctly, the average is around 6-7% (negotiation margin). So offering 10% less is not insulting to anyone, but you have to read the circumstances well... if the owners just dropped the asking price (to a very reasonable level) they're unlikely to accept 10%.

Hi Sandjo,

thank for the reply, the advice is appreciated. I have lived in district 7 before and thought it was a lovely area, close to college and quiet but it seems to have some mixed reviews from local Hungarians. Even the students at my college all seem to have different opinions on what it is like to live there. I would just hate to have problems renting the place out or selling it further down the line but that is the risk of buying a property no matter where it is I think

Again thanks so much for your reply!

Greetings all. Let me put in my 25 cent on this subject. As I have purchased property this is what I had to do. Not being a Hungarian citizen first you got to get "permission" to buy property. This means apartment, house with a yard but not agricultural land. That is somewhat restricted as Hungarians are uptight about selling land to foreigners. The "permission" part is weird because you can't request a "card blanch" but must specify the property by address/legal description. This can take 30 days (as many things in Hungary so I suggest doing a provisional contract for the property contingent on you getting permission. Normally this is not a problem and the permission is signed by the mayor of the township/area the property is located. The request however must be submitted to the appropriate County office and is a little pricey (50,000 Forints). Once you get the "permission" letter than you can purchase the property. There are taxes (here called -Illetek-) that has to be paid. This is not uniform and varies I believe by location. In my case it was 4% of the purchase price. Incidentally in my case it took the tax office to figure out the 4% so I had to wait until the letter arrived to pay it.  I can't emphasize enough (yes even if you speak the language) that you should retain an ATTORNEY that does this. There are letters, requests to the land office etc., that need to get done and unless you want to write a book about the Hungarian bureaucracy I would not recommend it. The other issue is the fraudulent activity that reared it's ugly head in Hungary like in modern countries where the property is sold multiple times in a short time or doesn't have a clear title etc. An ATTORNEY is a must! Hope this helps! Good luck!

Just to chime in as I'm familiar with the VII District it is horrible. You can get your car booted in about 3 minutes after you leave it and there seem to be parking attendant for every two blocks. Yes they mostly finished the Keleti Railroad area but it was a "bomb crater" for 5 or 6 years. There is also an unsavory population in this Kerulet/District. The Police in the VII-th is possibly the WORST out of all the Districts. There are unsavory characters and Middle eastern money changers around the railroad etc. I would seriously discourage anyone moving there especially if you have children.

peddington wrote:

..... The other issue is the fraudulent activity that reared it's ugly head in Hungary like in modern countries where the property is sold multiple times in a short time or doesn't have a clear title etc. An ATTORNEY is a must! Hope this helps! Good luck!

I agree that hiring a lawyer to conduct the transaction is a necessity but I'm surprised about property being sold multiple times and I wonder how this is likely to be done?   

The procedure is quite clear on property purchases and the land registry entries are 100% definitive - if a name appears in the registry then that person is the owner, regardless of how they came to be on the register.  I do not see where the opportunity to scam someone is, unless they are stupid enough to pay over money to the owner without a contract and not through the lawyer.

When a property has a pending and incomplete transaction, this is also shown in the property record as are any mortgages and liens. The property records are public records and easily downloaded for a fee but this is almost impossible for non-Hungarian speakers (hence best to use a lawyer). 

One thing I would caution people of is trying to buy a house that has outstanding CHF (Swiss Franc) loans on them or that are in negative equity with foreign currency mortgages.  The situation on foreclosures in Hungary is so unstable and the banks so uncooperative, it's best to avoid any house in this situation.  If the house is already foreclosed and sold through the bank, then there's more chance of it working out properly.  However, if it's not foreclosed and the owner is trying to sell the house themselves in order to pay back the outstanding loan, then be prepared to waste months on it.   The situation in Hungary on property to be foreclosed is chaotic and many sellers can be unpredictable.

Greetings! While I don't have "first hand" knowledge of fraudulent real estate activity in Hungary, I was told from reliable sources that it has been done! In one case the attorney involved was an accomplice and I guess that could easily be done. Some of the others could possibly done if there are numerous sales on the same property in a very short time. Hungary has not really arrived in to the "computer age" as many offices doing same work are not even connected by computer. The other thing is that in Hungary when one deals with bureaucracy you often hear "we have 30 days to get it done". Book keeping is poor at best and they loose paperwork a LOT! If someone living in Hungary has not experienced it then you should consider that a "small miracle" LOL! Incidentally I did buy one of those "Swiss franc" houses but the attorney made sure they shifted the loan over to one of their other property. Yes the bank was not thrilled but they made money on it and they made them pay down the loan some! I would not try that without a "safety net" (attorney) like "Fluffy" suggested!

peddington wrote:

Hungary has not really arrived in to the "computer age" as many offices doing same work are not even connected by computer.

There is truth in that. But I find recently that it is not if they have computers or not (most offices do have computers now), but if they use them effectively.

For example, I have had more than one circumstance where I when through a paperwork process to change some aspect of property, only to get a notice 12 months later from the same government office stating the property was still registered as the previous declaration. When I inquired why the records were still showing the old declaration, the answer was basically "oh, that issue is generated from a different database"...... 

fluffy2560 wrote:

the land registry entries are 100% definitive - if a name appears in the registry then that person is the owner

Unless there is a pocket contract on the property. Then the person in the land office is just a front man. EU and Hungary are currently at odds on the legality of such contracts.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

the land registry entries are 100% definitive - if a name appears in the registry then that person is the owner

Unless there is a pocket contract on the property. Then the person in the land office is just a front man. EU and Hungary are currently at odds on the legality of such contracts.

I thought pocket contracts were now unnecessary since the EU accession or am I wrong?

Any links to the discussion on pocket contracts?

peddington wrote:

.... attorney involved was an accomplice and I guess that could easily be done. Some of the others could possibly done if there are numerous sales on the same property in a very short time. ...."we have 30 days to get it done". Book keeping is poor at best and they loose paperwork a LOT!.....Incidentally I did buy one of those "Swiss franc" houses but the attorney made sure they shifted the loan over to one of their other property. Yes the bank was not thrilled but they made money on it and they made them pay down the loan some! I would not try that without a "safety net" (attorney) like "Fluffy" suggested!

I could see it would be possible at the deposit/downpayment stage - taking multiple downpayments from lots of buyers and running away with the cash but otherwise, not sure where in the process it would be possible to skim off money.  It would definitely need an accomplice in the lawyer.

The CHF issue would be OK if there was equity in the property to satisfy the bank but in a negative equity situation (i.e. outstanding loan is greater than the value of the house), the bank would be faced with a paper or real loss. Owner of the property in this case might as well just hand over the keys (although with almost no foreclosures going on, they might as well not bother, the owner can use the house "free"). My impression is the banks are charlatans in offering CHF loans in the first place - in my own country (UK) this would be considered "misselling".  I get the impression that the banks could be pushing the owner into negative equity by quoting the entire value of the mortgage contract for repayment plus exorbitant fees rather than the actual/real loan value at foreclosure.  My own experience is that reaching a settlement seems to be almost impossble with banks so I'm surprised it's possible to buy a CHF loan property.

There is a scam in countries in the region (Bulgaria I've heard) where properties are held by people who are "missing", say from a war.  The relatives sell the house to a rich foreigner and then suddenly long lost Uncle Fred turns up having being lost on an island for 70 years.  Then he can claim his property back.  And of course, the money has long gone and the contract to buy annulled. Then it  alll starts again with the next mug.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I thought pocket contracts were now unnecessary since the EU accession or am I wrong?

Land buying rights were brought in gradually. They did not all happen just at EU accession. Especially for land outside cities and villages, and especially for agricultural land. So it depends on where the land is, and when the contract happened. And if the "actual" owner registered in the land office or not after the gradual land ownership rights were updated over time. Add to pocket contracts so called "land lease" agreements that are essentially pocket contracts as well.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Any links to the discussion on pocket contracts?

http://www.neurope.eu/article/hungary-c … -contracts

klsallee wrote:

........... And if the "actual" owner registered in the land office or not after the gradual land ownership rights were updated over time. Add to pocket contracts so called "land lease" agreements that are essentially pocket contracts as well.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Any links to the discussion on pocket contracts?

http://www.neurope.eu/article/hungary-c … -contracts

Oh, this is the farmland issue and not really anything to do with residential or commercial property.  This was very common on the Austrian border.  At some borders, such as Sopron, one could see quite a few tractors queuing from Austria when there were border controls. I don't really see any problem with LEASING farmland if it's done correctly - land cannot be moved so could be reacquired by the state.  I hear the Chinese are leasing land for farming in Africa although they are exporting production back to China, and not for local needs, even if that's unethical.  But ethical China is an oxymoron.

I cannot see anyone buying residential or commercial (not farmland) property via pocket contracts as there are no real restrictions as far as I know.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Oh, this is the farmland issue and not really anything to do with residential or commercial property.

The thread is "Buying property in Hungary". Thus not limited to just residential or commercial land. 

fluffy2560 wrote:

I don't really see any problem with LEASING farmland if it's done correctly

But often, it is not "done correctly".

fluffy2560 wrote:

land cannot be moved so could be reacquired by the state.

Good grief. Nationalization. Might as well live in Imperial Russia 2.0.....

fluffy2560 wrote:

I hear the Chinese are leasing land for farming in Africa although they are exporting production back to China, and not for local needs, even if that's unethical.

If they leased the land "legally" then what they do with it is their business. Business is about making money, not so much about ethics, which should be more the area of politicians elected by the people which are the ones who are suppose to make sure the rules under which businesses function are fair and "ethical". Often (usually) the political elite fails in this mandate.

But I do also suspect much business in Africa done by the Chinese was not done legally. Plain brown envelopes full of cash pass under a lot of tables..... 

fluffy2560 wrote:

But ethical China is an oxymoron.

Well, that often seems to be true.... 

FWIIW: Lets not ignore the fact that the largest economy in the EU -- Germany -- and known instances of bribery of government officials by German companies, in and outside the EU, to acquire contracts, that I do not give high marks to Germany companies either as being very "ethical".

klsallee wrote:

...Good grief. Nationalization. Might as well live in Imperial Russia 2.0.....

Well, happened in Zimbabwe although they will rue the day when Bob bites the dust. I think you might be referring to the reboot of USSR 2.0 rather than the imperial version. Actually it might just be easier to hold a referendum and then annex on the grounds of the population being ethnic whatevers.

klsallee wrote:

...If they leased the land "legally" then what they do with it is their business. Business is about making money, not so much about ethics, which should be more the area of politicians elected by the people which are the ones who are suppose to make sure the rules under which businesses function are fair and "ethical". Often (usually) the political elite fails in this mandate.

We're into human rights here. Imagine a circumstance where local villagers have their water sources drained by large conglomerate farming (or mining) operations.  It's happened in Africa that the exploiters (China) and the exploitees (locals) come to violence. Politicians notwithstanding.

klsallee wrote:

....FWIIW: Lets not ignore the fact that the largest economy in the EU -- Germany -- and known instances of bribery of government officials by German companies, in and outside the EU, to acquire contracts, that I do not give high marks to Germany companies either as being very "ethical".

None of the buggers are truly ethical but some get caught. US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act caught a few but no idea if anyone has been caught in Germany by similar laws (btw, Germany ratified the OECD Bribery Convention).

fluffy2560 wrote:

Imagine a circumstance where local villagers have their water sources drained by large conglomerate farming (or mining) operations.  It's happened in Africa

There is a bottled water company near where I live. And some of the historically active water sources have gone dry or are now unfit to drink.

Global warming, and reduced rain fall?

Or due to the conglomerate sucking out the aquifer to fill little plastic bottles of mineral water?

It would take years of conflicting "expert" opinion and litigation to find out.

Africa? These issues are happening locally in Europe, now, in real time. Time to wake up.

we just need an apartment for the purpose of ( an office in Hungary)

Greetings, almost forget. All those of US origin (citizens and residents) you have to declare all "assets" to Uncle Sam by June 30th -No extension possible!" These include ALL foreign bank accounts that reached 10K anytime during the year. It seems that Uncle can size up to half you asset etc., if you dont. See FINCEN 114 form (no mail just e-file)! Yes I know it was design for drug dealers but Uncle is treating us all the same and the threshold is 10K. So unless you stricktly a tourist that probably includes you!

peddington wrote:

Greetings, almost forget. All those of US origin (citizens and residents) you have to declare all "assets" to Uncle Sam by June 30th -No extension possible!" ..... that probably includes you!

If you are a dual national of some description and US by birth, the best answer to the IRS inteference is to renounce your US citizenship. Many US citizens DO renounce their citizenship to get rid of the IRS.

peddington wrote:

FINCEN 114 form

A kind and timely reminder to American expats. Thank you.

Do be aware that the threshold is aggregative: if you have two foreign accounts, one with $5000 and the other with $5001 at some time during the 2013 tax year the aggregative total is $10,001 and you have to file the above form.

fluffy2560 wrote:

... the best answer to the IRS inteference is to renounce your US citizenship. Many US citizens DO renounce their citizenship to get rid of the IRS.

It is not always quite so easy to avoid the IRS. US citizens who renounce their citizenship may still be liable for all US taxes (penalties and fees) for up to 10 years after they renounce their citizenship if for some reason that persons moves back to the US for more than 120 days. And the IRS may be able to still audit for up to three past years after renouncing citizenship. And at the time of renouncing their citizenship they may have to pay a capital gains tax on all foreign held property as if they had sold it. If one has any business ties to the US, they still have to pay US taxes on effectively connected US income for that business, and as a new foreigner that may mean getting US business income taxed at the top rate (currently 35%). There are many other consequences to taking this action, so not a step to be taken lightly. Of the 5 million (approximately) US Citizens living abroad, only a few thousand renounce their citizenship each year (0.05%). It certainly happens, some do it, but not really that many.

klsallee wrote:

..... Of the 5 million (approximately) US Citizens living abroad, only a few thousand renounce their citizenship each year (0.05%). It certainly happens, some do it, but not really that many.

Yes indeedy, the rules are very complex and the IRS's reach is long but it does happen as you say that people do it.  The most famous case recently I know of is Braziian born Eduardo Saverin (he owns part of Facebook) who saved himself billions in their IPO and just before the law changed in the USA.  He lives in Singapore now and is worth $3 billion. I suppose he might have been worth $2 billion afterwards. Is USA citizenship really worth $1 billion? Probably not. With that kind of cash he can surely buy himself any citizenship he likes, including reacquiring his US citizenship later on when his liability has disappeared. And he can afford the best advice unlike the majority of us. The US Treasury publishes a name and shame list for US citizens who renounce but I doubt any of them really care about being on the list. What's the "best" citizenship to buy?  Perhaps Irish? Canadian? Swiss?

There are quite a few well known Americans in the UK who renounced their citizenship. I also know of a US-born person (dual national with dual national parents) who travels with a British passport and he told me he gets hassled everytime he goes to the USA to see his relatives because it says Boston, USA as birthplace in his passport.  He has not taken up his US citizenship actively - primarily because he doesn't want to deal with the IRS. He's quite old and doesn't want to explain himself for years and years of expatriate living outside of the USA and the UK.

BTW, bit of trivia is that British citizens cannot give up their citizenship if it makes them stateless (unlike the USA).

Indeed. Also don't forget that if you do "renounce" your citizenship at the US Embassy in a foreign country you must show proof that you can stay in another country otherwise it is a "no go". If you ever want to return to the US you will have to apply for a visa like anyone else unless you became a citizen of a country that does not require a visa for 90 days.

Which area is Best for Foreigners?

I am interested in a 3 Bed house in a peaceful friendly neighbourhood.

Any suggestions

DXBDINO28 wrote:

Which area is Best for Foreigners?

I am interested in a 3 Bed house in a peaceful friendly neighbourhood.

Any suggestions

Google.

DXBDINO28 wrote:

I am interested in a 3 Bed house in a peaceful friendly neighbourhood.

Any suggestions

The housing section here at Expat-blog:

https://www.expat.com/en/housing/europe … /budapest/

Glad to see this topic still going strong.  I have an essay to write so bear with me. 
I am interested in becoming a landlord in Hungary, probably Budapest.  I have lived in Szeged for two years and currently work in Saudi Arabia. I am American and my wife is Hungarian. Now that the back story is finished lets get to work.
My wife has gone to banks asking about loans, and while I don't get perfect information(she is young and not very business oriented), I seem to understand that we can get a loan based on my salary as long as I work for a US contract company, which I do.  So far, so good.  The loan is not based on the value of the property but based on a percentage of my income. With an APR of 6.84%, and Interest of 7,12%.  Not really important but just some info for other expats looking for a loan, though I'm not sure if it is different for me since my wife is a local.
Now I'm looking for flats in Budapest, and like everyone else I'm looking at districts 5, 6, and 7.  The going rate for one in rentable condition right now seems to be about 300.000 a meter.  And rents seems to be about 10% of this, so a strong rental market and good income.  Are these the numbers people are experiencing right now?
And finally here is my question.  Does anyone have experience with foreclosures?  Say the websites ingatlanvegrehajtas or MBVK.  They charge 6000 per month to use their site and view properties.  Is it worth it?  I am not in a hurry so if it takes 6 months or longer to close on the property I don't care.  Getting something for half the going rate is more important than time for me.  I know Hungary is complex with a lot of red tape(but you should try Saudi Arabia. It is a hundred times worse). I also don't mind renovating. I am able to do it myself, though I have heard getting permissions to work on flats and houses is a hassle. Noise, getting trash containers, zoning rules, inspections, even how many trees you have to have.

usafpj wrote:

Does anyone have experience with foreclosures?  Say the websites ingatlanvegrehajtas or MBVK.  They charge 6000 per month to use their site and view properties.  Is it worth it?  I am not in a hurry so if it takes 6 months or longer to close on the property I don't care. ...

Foreclosures of residential properties is difficult business here and not much of an opportunity.

We tried to buy a property from the owner with the cooperation of their mortgage bank - they were going to foreclose. However, the owner seemed to be trying to get us to pay him a larger cash amount without the involvement of his mortgage bank.  In other words, he wanted us to pay him with the "promise" he'd pay off his loan AND defraud the mortgage bank out of what it was owed. It was a truly laughable scam but it did take us several months to understand exactly what he was up to.  He seemed to think he was clever enough to fool everyone and we were all too stupid to see through the scheme. 

I would not do anything without a reputable lawyer acting for you. You can sign the property contract in the lawyers office, then transfer the money there and then electronically either yourself or through the lawyer.  Any lawyer worth his money will have everything properly organised.  Never pay for anything in cash. If you have the money, just buy the place without a bank.  They are a nuisance. It's not a proper market in HU.

Business properties are easier to buy through auctions. Look here: http://www.cibingatlanaukcio.hu/

Bear in mind that ordinary real estate agent prices are anywhere between 25-60% overpriced.

Thanks for the info Fluffy.  I've looked at that auction site before but have never seen any auctions on it.  I'll try setting up an account and see if that changes anything.  There is also this website, ingatlanvegrehajtas.hu, which lists property auctions as well as other stuff, but charges a monthly fee.  Do you or anyone else have experience with them?  I'm wondering if it is a scam or a legit way to get good auction properties and maybe a car plus other stuff.
    I understand that going through a bank for a loan is a hassle(OTP was worthless), but I will have to unless I want a 10 million forint farm home. Right now I'm talking to UniCredit and they seem pretty reasonable, though the interest rate is double that of the USA. And I have a right fun time haggling, for cars or any little trinket, but offering someone 50% off what they are asking seems impossible, especially since most places in Budapest are priced close together. Looking at your past posts you might mean out in the country, which I could understand and do. I could probably offer 20 or 30% less than the asking price if I bought something is Szeged, but in Budapest I think 10% is about the best that is possible. Granted I'm not a buyer, but just a watcher, so it is all an opinion and based zero on fact or experience.

usafpj wrote:

.... but offering someone 50% off what they are asking seems impossible, especially since most places in Budapest are priced close together.

It's worth reading the past posts.  Out in the countryside, it's desperately difficult to sell but prices are set everywhere at what the owner needs, not what it's worth.  My own experience is that we waited 6 months for prices on certain houses to drop. It dropped 25% over about 4 months, then dropped further by about another 10%. We finally got it down a further 10% by negotiation. But the owners had inherited the property and didn't care about it wanted it gone.   The discount obtained is not to say I'm a fantastic negotiator, it's that they overprice the houses stupidly.  If we take the "more realistic price", then I think we obtained a 29% drop.  We think we paid about the right amount although realistically, a further drop of 10% would have been more appropriate. We are generally satisfied as to what we got for the money. 

The trouble here is that no-one is publishing (or apparently allowed to publish) historical house prices so no-one can do comparisons. It's really a very poor situation and causes no end of trouble in creating a proper market.  If you offer a low amount, you could get abuse so do it through the real estate agent to avoid a face to face confrontation. Government is very guilty on not opening the land registry books properly.

Anyway, you need a clean title so I'd avoid anything with a mortgage on it.  In one scenario, a foreclosed property would STILL have a lien on it for the owner's outstanding amount even though the house had passed into other ownership and therefore, there was always a thought in my mind there was a chance of repossession.  Basically it's stupid and hard to obtain a clear title.  The situation here is just chaotic and covered in fog when you have 3rd parties.  However, no mortgage, clear title, then it can be OK.  Entry in the land registry is definitive but you, as a US citizen, will need permission from the local government to own but your wife as a Hungarian/EC citizen will not. It's another hurdle.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The situation here is just chaotic and covered in fog when you have 3rd parties.

If there is even a hint of any type of third party entitlement or lien on a property, in my humble opinion, the smart money walks away. Truly not worth the hassle.

klsallee wrote:

If there is even a hint of any type of third party entitlement or lien on a property, in my humble opinion, the smart money walks away. Truly not worth the hassle.

Yes, absolutely. Walk away is the only option. Therefore cash purchase is the best option.

My 2 cents worth: When making offer on a property in 5th consider average price is 1000Eur per sqm, offer 7-10% less from there. However, if you see open gas heating in the apartment you will be advised to budget hot water radiators, pipes, new boiler and labor all of which could run 3000 to 7000 Eur depending on the size of the flat. Check the wiring in any wall outlet , if you see mixed wiring of copper and aluminum = apartment was never rewired and could be a fire hazard, so budget another 1000 to 2000 for rewiring. Buying brick apartment in a building from 19 century? Expect freestanding plaster in some walls = will collapse during reno. Could be a few 100s for re-plastering. The other obvious things are plumbing and windows. If you see old rotten window frames or peeling paint with water stains, old scratched glass in windows...., prepare to shell out for new glass and at least a cosmetic repair else your tenants will move after first heating season. Ideally you want thermo glass in inside frames and some repair to bring average apartment to the Energy saving category of :Acceptable.

MOHCTEP wrote:

.... the Energy saving category of :Acceptable.

General pieces of advice.

Under EU law, each property must have an energy certificate and the rule is that the seller pays.  It's a pointless piece of paper since if a place is bought for renovation, the energy category will change anyway.  The certificate lasts 10 years.  Budget 300 EUR.

Things like windows have a minimum specific heat loss value.  Same with outside insulation. Building regulations apply. 

In HU, there is also a standard model for house renovations with prices per m2 for every aspect of renovation. You can check offers from builders against this standard model to see if they are overcharging.  If you have an architect, they can prepare a budget estimate for you. Make them do it in Excel so you can change stuff around yourself.

Hungaryproperties.org  is the best business site i ever visited. I bought a cottage in Hungary this year,and they visited each one for me at there own expense,sent photographs,and saved me from making blunders. All i was charged in fees was around £350  Now im still getting free services from them such as translations, contract signing, and advice when i email. Once you work with them the customer service is for life.

Hi, I know this post is old, but just in case someone else needs help in this matter I can recommend apartmanszeged.com - It helped me a lot when I was buying a property in Hungary.

Hi everyone,

Just joined the forum and I'm looking to purchase an apartment in Budapest (District V,VI,VII,VIII). Hoping people can give some advice on lawyers, bank accounts and their general thought on the property market right now. I know it's not 2012 prices anymore! Would be keen to hear existing property owners share what they think of the market. I'm actually keen to buy a property that I can renovate on my own as well... how difficult do people think this is without knowing how to speak any Hungarian. I'm an amateur builder but have a good interest in it!

Thanks in advance for all the advice !

cckmcc wrote:

I'm actually keen to buy a property that I can renovate on my own as well... how difficult do people think this is without knowing how to speak any Hungarian. I'm an amateur builder but have a good interest in it!

Go to a store like Obi. They have everything you need. And sometimes the staff speak English or more commonly German.

Been renovating here myself. The exterior work I had done professionally. That required a Hungarian speaker to translate. The interior work I did myself. Quietly. While listening to old type radio shows.

For example,

https://stcoemgen.com/2016/10/18/renova … -a-window/

or

https://stcoemgen.com/2016/10/11/findin … ng-photos/

Learning how to plaster (both rough and finishing) will be the most difficult. It will take practice to get good at it. But there are plenty of "how to" videos around.

I think market is overpriced right now in 5 & premium 6. For DIY reno; You need to know how to do underfloor heating. Heating is open gas in most old apartments and needs to be replaced. Need some carpentry skills for floor joists and such. Plastering of course. Plumbing, as all plumbing will be 100 years old or older. Electrics will most likely need to be replaced with concealed wiring (better hire a local pro) . Windows, definitely replace with new, sound insulating type, especially if you are on the busy street. Districts 5, 6 and 8 around Palace district are all getting too pricey compare to what they return as rentals. Further out district 8 is still ok, walk the streets though and see the neighborhood. Some good prices still could be found in 6 along upper Andrassy & side streets.

cckmcc wrote:

.... I'm actually keen to buy a property that I can renovate on my own as well... how difficult do people think this is without knowing how to speak any Hungarian. I'm an amateur builder but have a good interest in it!

Thanks in advance for all the advice !

You will really suffer on getting permits to fix stuff.  We want to move our gas from one place to another but we've been at this permit lark for about 4 months now.  We originally planned for 3 weeks to do the gas.  It took us 2 permit applications (first was wrong because the gas permit person misunderstood or got it wrong, second seems right now).   But the gas company is holding up everything.    Now the ground is frozen and they cannot lay the gas pipes (dug the holes but not deep enough apparently).  If we get a warm snap, we might be able to do it at short notice but it's really screwing us up (we might be able to finish inside if we can get above about 5 C).   We've also had  3 different gas installers involved because they keep disappearing.  I think we're on No. 4 now.  Plumbers are the same.  Certain trades stick with it - electricians mainly.  Even the builders keep wandering off. 

You also need permits for some internal work or things that change the facade like windows, for anything structural, wood heating, gas heating, electrical possibly you can do yourself if you do not want some eco-friendly electricity ("Geo" tariff) but best to get someone else to do it as they will be a lot faster.  The bureaucracy is high and much of it is seemingly unnecessary.

The only person I have found who can speak English well is the guy who made our banisters and balustrades (we had to have them custom made due to the builders screwing up our stairs).  I was amazed we could communicate so well.   No-one else knows English (or German) that I've found. Our builder had a smattering of English and German but not that great.  As Mrs Fluffy is a local, a lot falls on her.