Wheelchairs & Handicapped Electric Scooters On Flights To Vietnam

@Fred
That would work, but he will need two (two 12V batts tied in series to give 24 volts to the controller).

OB, if you read this, Group 11Ah sealed gel lead acid batteries would work, and you'd still be under the 300Wh limit for the two. You'll also need carry bags for them, if VN airlines sticks to their guns.

"The power rating of the battery must not exceed 300Wh, or for devices fitted with two batteries, each battery must not exceed 160Wh."   Group 11 batteries will be just over 130Wh (X 2 = 260Wh)

Unforgivable you're having to endure this. Sealed gel lead acid batteries are not lithium batteries.


Off topic, but did you know that if you find yourself stranded and in need of fire, you can crush a lithium battery and presto, fire. Even in the rain, and even if the battery is not charged up. Good to know, when/if you need to know.


edit; I strongly recommend against using lithium batteries in your device
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edit; I strongly recommend against using lithium batteries in your device
- @Aidan in HCMC

If the batteries are under the seat, there's always the possibility of a sweetbread BBQ. I'm looking at a small solar system for home (backup power). I won't use Lithium batteries for that because of price and safety concerns.
I would be unhappy sitting with my pair on a pair of the things.
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This is the required "battery box" required to correctly encase the batteries and connect the batteries to the chair:

screenshot_20220701-090125_chrome.jpg

These are the two batteries, side-by-side, necessary to fit in the box:

screenshot_20220701-085643_amazonshoppin

I would need all of that to make it work properly for rated weight limit of 300 lbs (I'm about 260).

The electronics on my model will refuse to function and it certainly won't operate for me if something else or something less is used.

Literider-Battery-Lift-Off-001.jpg

That's where the battery box connects to the drive train (not necessary to remove the seat to do this)
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Ok, got'cha. The ML battery has a more slender line, probably because they aren't gel types. Non-gel lead acid batteries have more punch for the same weight/volume, at the risk of leaking lead acid in the event the casing is cracked.

If you can get two sealed lead acid batteries of a lower Ah rating, your scooter will still work, though with reduced range. I seldom used these ML types. Can you get two ML11 batteries? If so, they will definitely work but for only half the range of your ML22s.

Still, this is the first time I have ever heard of an airline applying Li-Ion safety guidelines to sealed lead acid batteries as used in medical mobility devices. Unfathomable.

Will VN Air accept your scooter without the batteries?
Breath deep, relax. Soon you'll be here and not long after that you'll chuckle about this latest expat adventure.
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Quick question, when you've time.

I'm assuming you have a meter/guage showing the amount of charge you have remaining in your batteries. If so, when you depress the thumb toggle to accelerate forward does the guage drop all the way to zero?

I ask because if it doesn't drop to zero upon initial acceleration then a lesser Ah pair (12V each) will still work (less range, and oomph). It'll certainly get you out of the airport.

If VN Air will take the scooter without the batteries, see if someone in your greeting party can bring along a fresh pair and meet you at the airport when you arrive, and install them on the spot.

Good luck. You'll be fine.
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Ok, got'cha. The ML battery has a more slender line, probably because they aren't gel types.
I'd already confirmed with tech support at the scooter distributor that these are indeed sealed, gel, non-spillable, lead  acid batteries.

I needed to find out (for United Airlines) if these are classified as "dry" or "wet".

They are "wet" (and United Airlines accepts them).
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They are wet. Li-Ion is dry. So United will be okay with them? If so, sanity!

But gel? I'm surprised it isn't stated. "Sealed gel lead acid" batteries are more expensive than regular, "sealed lead acid" batteries.

I think you will find that tech support erred. The batteries in your picture (stock photo, are yours the same as those pictured?) are known as AGM batteries (Absorbant Glass Mat). Fibreglass mats, suspended in a lead acid electrolyte solution, separating the + and - plates.

Still bothers me that VN Air is applying Lithium safety guidelines to Lead acid.
But then again, in VN a mouse is a rat, a moth is a butterfly, etc etc  :)

Do keep us updated.
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Hope this link works.

"Often AGM Batteries are mistakenly identified as Gel Cell Batteries. While both AGM Batteries and GEL Batteries may have similar traits; such as being non spillable, both are deep cycle batteries and may be mounted in any position, have low self discharge, are safe for use in limited ventilation areas and can be transported via air or ground safely without special handling."

"...without special handling", very much unlike Lithium Ion.

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I'm going to gamble (unless I receive positive feedback from Vietnam Airlines' San Francisco office):

I'll take the scooter to San Francisco on United and arrive with a 6+ hour layover scheduled.

I'll present myself for ticketing, and if there is any problem, I'll ask for the baggage handling department or load master or whatever they call it to make an on site determination with eyes on the unit and the manual and my .PDF file (key photos printed out).

I left a TON of stuff behind when I flew to Hanoi in 2018, and if push comes to shove, I'm willing to leave the scooter in the terminal and fly to Vietnam without it.

I can walk short distances using a cane and wearing my prosthetic boot.

I'll only attempt to take the unit without the batteries if 1. It's treated as free, unaccompanied baggage and 2. they disassemble the battery box and ship that as well (leaving the batteries behind).

I can definitely survive in Vietnam without it.

I just hated the idea of leaving it behind if there was a chance they would let me bring it with me for free.

Thanks everyone for feedback.

Cheers!

O.B.
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@OceanBeach92107

Like a BOSS!  Good plan of attack.
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After 2 1/2 hours of arguing with someone in HCMC, my scooter is finally approved and with me in San Francisco International Airport, waiting for boarding to start any minute.

Thanks again to everyone for your input.
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@OceanBeach92107

Excellent news!
Good for you, OB.
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He had to agree to special conditions

fire-extinguisher-character-wheelchair-f
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Ironically, they they were refusing to let me ship the scooter because they said the battery was too powerful.

But after 6 hours waiting and transiting around the domestic and international terminals in San Francisco Airport and being left to fend for myself with a full luggage cart and no electric outlets anywhere nearby for charging, the battery died just as the plane was loading and I was giving the scooter to the handlers to put into the plane's baggage compartment.

They just dropped it off for me in baggage claim at Tân Sơn Nhất Airport and with help we got it out to my waiting car.

Glad that's over and I'm back in Việt Nam!
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@OceanBeach92107

I'm glad you stuck to your guns, OB. Many would not have. More should.
But, a note to others who might read this thread.

VN Air's claim that OB's batteries were too powerful is because of either...

a) poor training in safety protocol vis-à-vis lithium vs sealed lead acid batteries (gel or AGM)
or
b) a scooter/wheelchair would be taking up valuable space which could have been used for cargo

I'm going to go with a combination of both. Intentionally poor training which inevitably leads to freeing up space in the plane's belly.

I'm sure we've all been on flights where there were no more than a handful of passengers and wondered how it was that the airline could afford this. Well, that flight you're on is packed to the gills underneath you, with boxes of cargo paying the airline big bucks. The cost for shipping a not-so-big box by air cargo dwarfs the cost of many business class fares.

I have shipped chairs  for customers with very large batteries (up to 60 lbs, each, 120 lbs total), with 350 Wh potential in each.
It is imperative that people using these devices do as OB did, ie. stick to your guns. Fortunately for OB, he is ambulatory and had he not been so persuasive he would have fared just fine.
;)


But what of others?

Below is a typical chair for people referred to as "heavy users", or "high-end users".  What if VN Air had denied the owner of this chair transport of it? Quite a different story, I'm afraid. There are many chairs worth in excess of $200,000.

Typical user of this chair would be immobile from the neck down (notice no joystick). Note also the head array used for commands to the controller (roll left, roll right, tilt back-forward, extend legrests, etc).
There is also showing what is called a sip-and-puff, evidenced by the two clear tubes running just behind the head array, each of which are connected to opposing vacuum switches (one for positive/puff, the other for vacuum/sip) usually configured to the individuals needs/requests/abilities to control motor movements (turn left, turn right, straight, reverse etc).
Directly behind the backrest we see the motors used for tilt, recline.
The batteries in this particular chair weigh in at ~50 lbs each, and pack quite a whollop.

Now, imagine this poor soul being told that his batteries were too powerful, FFS!

I believe there exists int'l regulations governing this topic. If there isn't, there should be.

Hope this helps someone out someday. Stick to your guns on this issue

infomain_headarray.png
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I would imagine many wheelchair users have a difficult time so that seems to leave two choices.
As with the OP, stick to your guns ..... or take a mate with guns EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE !!!!!

The_Genesis.jpg
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@Fred
...and maybe someone who knows how to read...

"...red light,

green light,

amber in between..."




sddefault.jpg
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The old sci-fi is really coming out.
Live long and prosper
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P.S.:


I'm really glad I decided to bring the scooter with me.


My wife and I have leased a house in Cẩm Thanh, Hội An.


We packed up the scooter plus minimum possessions in an SUV and left Vũng Tàu:


20220828_085611.jpg


We traveled to Quảng Ngãi via Mộc Bài and Buôn Ma Thuột and left the scooter in QN at wife's parent's house while we traveled to Hà Nội, Hạ Long Bay, Huế and Đà Nẵng.

After we leased the house we drove to Quảng Ngãi and picked up the scooter and brought it here.


It's about a 2 km round trip to Chợ Cẩm Châu (Bà Lê Market) with mostly flat, good condition streets.


I use it at least twice a day: morning market trips (with my wife on a bicycle) and late afternoon "walks" on nice concrete pathways out through the rice fields & marshes and along the canal.


I estimate that I've spent between $300 and $400 more than I might have on transportation costs had we not been traveling with the scooter (which currently retails for about $1,700.00 USD).


More than worth it to enjoy increased mobility and independence here.

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@OceanBeach92107

OB, not sure whether you have any motorbike experience, but I think you'd really enjoy a small scooter, three-wheeled kind. Plenty of power for two people, and would greatly increase your exploration of the new environs.

Something to consider. Congrats on the new digs!

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@OceanBeach92107
OB, not sure whether you have any motorbike experience, but I think you'd really enjoy a small scooter, three-wheeled kind. Plenty of power for two people, and would greatly increase your exploration of the new environs.
Something to consider. Congrats on the new digs!
-@Aidan in HCMC


Thanks Anonymous (I mean, Aidan 😉)


Yes, we've actually been looking at electric 3-wheelers online, but haven't yet been anywhere to check one out in person.


We'll probably end up looking at some gas models too.

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@OceanBeach92107

Go for the gas engine, 150cc three-wheeled.

150K VND will get you better than 300 kilometers without a "recharge", and if you like, at a decent clip!

The added bonus is that it seats two. (Is there a two seat electric?)

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@OceanBeach92107
Go for the gas engine, 150cc three-wheeled.
150K VND will get you better than 300 kilometers without a "recharge", and if you like, at a decent clip!
The added bonus is that it seats two. (Is there a two seat electric?)
-@Aidan in HCMC


we actually found quite a few two-seater electric models on the internet. some roomier than others

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@OceanBeach92107

I've never seen one built for two, but then again all the units I worked on/with were strictly medical mobility devices.

That being said, I've worked on a few golf carts. Same electronics, controller, brakes etc as some medical scooters and wheelchairs, just beefier bits.


Still, before throwing for an electric, seriously consider a gas engine. It goes only as fast, or as far, as you want it to. But, it will go as fast and as far as you ever might want it to.

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